I have to agree on the first post. When I played NS for the first time aliens were strong. A single skulk could take out even a small group of (surprised) marines. A rambo was... dead meat, fast food, dinner for one. Motion tracking did not work. Higher lifeforms (fade and Onos) hardly ever showed up on the battlefield and marines didn't even want to leave their base if they spotted an Onos.
Now... well, I don't play classic anymore. Should be worth more than thousand words.
One of my foundest memories about 1.04 was how scary and dangerous a early fade was. Now its like oh no a fade oh look I have shotgun bang bang its dead. Back in 1.04 AR was deadly and it took a team of marines to kill a early fade.
I agree with just about every thing said here.
I want my deadly AR back <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Onos its not even scary anymore 3 shotgun marines will own his butt every time.
In 1.04 you didn't see "an early fade", you saw a team full of fades, since they would all get to 54 res at the same time, and it had to wait for the second hive. Acid rocket definitely needs a boost; it should at least do double damage against structures to take out bases faster.
P.S. It's nice to know that people still remember my post about alien armor.
On MT: I've always liked the idea of splitting MT into two seperate upgrades. A 'basic MT' that only worked on the minimap, for maybe 25 res. Then an 'advanced MT' that gave you the in game motion circles that let you track enemies through walls. Make that 25 res also and maybe up the refresh time on MT circles slightly and you have a good upgrade path. Early MT can be gained without a huge investment (45 res for MT is enough that if your strat isn't built around using MT, there's no reason to ever get it) and then wallhack MT can be researched later if there's res and time for it.
I'm in the camp that really likes minimap MT, but doesn't really like the other at all. Minimap MT can tell you there's a skulk in the other room, but not exactly where he's hiding. Keeps things interesting. The wallhack MT just makes skulks useless, except when they hide over a door without moving a muscle for however long it takes marines to come by. Yeah, that's fun...
I think that what the game needs is more value on life (for both sides). The thing about 1.4 that was great was that the aliens were strong - the limiting factor came in their ability to get hive #2 - all the great fights were over a territory. If the marines lost that 2nd hive, they would (probably) loose the game. If it wearnt for the JP HMG rush, they definatly would loose.
But those limiting factors are what made the game fun. The knowledge that getting the 2nd hive (and with it, fades) made the early aliens a lot of fun to play. The fear of acid rockets made the marines fun to play. Onos were the "god of war" and could barely be stopped.
On the other side, being able to use sensory chambers to cloak structures, focus, a blink that works, devour - all these are fun too.
Perhaps there needs to be more emphasis put on the alien chambers again - make an OC worth something, perhaps restrict the onos to 2nd hive, and give the skulks a buff and the fade a better "vinagar spritzer" (acid rocket). I think the aliens need a bit more diversity again - everyone is a hit and run unit (including the lerk) with barely any change in tactics. You just get a bit bigger with a bit more health. In fact, I feel almost no difference between playing a skulk and a fade - besides that a skulk is more fun, but you need fade because they have more health. I think Lerks need spikes back - why? for direct ranged attack (something the aliens dont get - other than gorge - until hive 3).
Diversity is the key - it breeds new strategy and gives depth - makes playing each class enjoyable and exciting.
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Jul 21 2004, 09:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jul 21 2004, 09:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No, because it is POSSIBLE to discuss part of 1.04 without including every other part. If someone says that they really liked babblers, of fade bb, or paralyze on the onos, or WHATEVER, people always want to counter with "OMG 1.04 JPHMGFTWLOLWTH". It's stupid. Listen closely: It is <i>possible</i> to discuss <i>part</i> of 1.x without having to lump in <i>every</i> part of it. Get it? Thank you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The original question was "you know what was good about 1.04?". Well... I know for sure that there was something bad about 1.04. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But those limiting factors are what made the game fun<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not really. Do you know what is common with the movies Aliens, Predator, and the Thing? Humans are always the weaker side and hunted. That is fun, that is enterntaining; not the other way around, where you just take your bazooka and blast the heII out from the nearest living creature, and that is what I liked in NS -survival against the odds.
As a alien, I knew we would most likely win, and could take my time skulking for the lone ramboes and not really care for frags -as long as the marine was there and not doing anything, I could afford it too. Now... well; marines build everything fast, and aliens are weak; skulking will lead most likely to death, and every RFK is precious. The more there is mindless fragging, the stronger aliens are, and that is not very much fun.
As a marine, you really were "out there" on your own. One skulk (with cara, of course <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) in most cases swallowed you whole. No buddies rushing through the nearest ninja-pg to save your a$$, or heroic ramboes hopping from the opposite hallway. "Oh, hi! All clear there! C'ya!" "Eh... WTHux0r I'm doing here then?" <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> Survival against the odds. I really loved it when hiding was a better option than shooting.
Ah, nostalgy... shame that it proves wrong in most cases, although I'm willing to bet that I had a lot more fun with versions one and two than with the bastard son #3. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
This post is only to the first post:
First off, I think Motion Tracking has gotta stay, but be toned down, BIGTIME. So you can still walk, instead of no movement at all. Taking it out would just ruin things anyway.
The Hive/Armor bonuses...eh, sure, why not. I don't know enough about it to say either way.
Taking out Marine RFK- I totally agree with this idea. I have just started commanding lately, and one thing I've noticed is that I will be going along, spending res on a shoestring budget, really hoping and praying something goes right, then I go for a assault on a hive, and lose about 200 worth of Res. But 1 player- yes, 1- ends up staying, can take out that hive, and then rambos off ANYTHING that comes by, and while I'm mounting another hive attack, I suddenly am asked "What the hell are you saving up for?"- I'm thinking what kind of idiot is this I should only have 40 res OHMYGODIHAVE 200 FRICKINRESYAY. Why? That rambo.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
But the real question is why the aliens should get RFK. If aliens don't get enough res otehrwise, then fine, tweak the res system so the aliens will get enough res (regardless of teamsize). I don't like how the res**** aliens get the res while the gorges get jack ****.
Comments
Now... well, I don't play classic anymore. Should be worth more than thousand words.
I agree with just about every thing said here.
I want my deadly AR back <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Onos its not even scary anymore 3 shotgun marines will own his butt every time.
P.S. It's nice to know that people still remember my post about alien armor.
I'm in the camp that really likes minimap MT, but doesn't really like the other at all. Minimap MT can tell you there's a skulk in the other room, but not exactly where he's hiding. Keeps things interesting. The wallhack MT just makes skulks useless, except when they hide over a door without moving a muscle for however long it takes marines to come by. Yeah, that's fun...
But those limiting factors are what made the game fun. The knowledge that getting the 2nd hive (and with it, fades) made the early aliens a lot of fun to play. The fear of acid rockets made the marines fun to play. Onos were the "god of war" and could barely be stopped.
On the other side, being able to use sensory chambers to cloak structures, focus, a blink that works, devour - all these are fun too.
Perhaps there needs to be more emphasis put on the alien chambers again - make an OC worth something, perhaps restrict the onos to 2nd hive, and give the skulks a buff and the fade a better "vinagar spritzer" (acid rocket).
I think the aliens need a bit more diversity again - everyone is a hit and run unit (including the lerk) with barely any change in tactics. You just get a bit bigger with a bit more health. In fact, I feel almost no difference between playing a skulk and a fade - besides that a skulk is more fun, but you need fade because they have more health. I think Lerks need spikes back - why? for direct ranged attack (something the aliens dont get - other than gorge - until hive 3).
Diversity is the key - it breeds new strategy and gives depth - makes playing each class enjoyable and exciting.
The original question was "you know what was good about 1.04?". Well... I know for sure that there was something bad about 1.04. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Not really. Do you know what is common with the movies Aliens, Predator, and the Thing? Humans are always the weaker side and hunted. That is fun, that is enterntaining; not the other way around, where you just take your bazooka and blast the heII out from the nearest living creature, and that is what I liked in NS -survival against the odds.
As a alien, I knew we would most likely win, and could take my time skulking for the lone ramboes and not really care for frags -as long as the marine was there and not doing anything, I could afford it too. Now... well; marines build everything fast, and aliens are weak; skulking will lead most likely to death, and every RFK is precious. The more there is mindless fragging, the stronger aliens are, and that is not very much fun.
As a marine, you really were "out there" on your own. One skulk (with cara, of course <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) in most cases swallowed you whole. No buddies rushing through the nearest ninja-pg to save your a$$, or heroic ramboes hopping from the opposite hallway.
"Oh, hi! All clear there! C'ya!"
"Eh... WTHux0r I'm doing here then?" <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Survival against the odds. I really loved it when hiding was a better option than shooting.
Ah, nostalgy... shame that it proves wrong in most cases, although I'm willing to bet that I had a lot more fun with versions one and two than with the bastard son #3. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
First off, I think Motion Tracking has gotta stay, but be toned down, BIGTIME. So you can still walk, instead of no movement at all. Taking it out would just ruin things anyway.
The Hive/Armor bonuses...eh, sure, why not. I don't know enough about it to say either way.
Taking out Marine RFK- I totally agree with this idea. I have just started commanding lately, and one thing I've noticed is that I will be going along, spending res on a shoestring budget, really hoping and praying something goes right, then I go for a assault on a hive, and lose about 200 worth of Res. But 1 player- yes, 1- ends up staying, can take out that hive, and then rambos off ANYTHING that comes by, and while I'm mounting another hive attack, I suddenly am asked "What the hell are you saving up for?"- I'm thinking what kind of idiot is this I should only have 40 res OHMYGODIHAVE 200 FRICKINRESYAY. Why? That rambo.
My $.2.