Pistol Fire
GSHound
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18940Members
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18940Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Did they not cap it?</div> Hey, I was just playing a game and saw a guy shoot all his pistol rounds < 1 second. Now, I was always under the impression there was a cap on the speed one could fire the pistol. Has this cap been removed? Is the cap still in place?
I believe there was a cap in 2.0...
Feel kindof humiliated saying there was a cap when someone called me a nooblet... am I a nooblet?
I know pistol scripts are all over the place - however, are the scripts breaking the rules, if indeed there is a pistol cap?
I feel wierd.
Thanks for bothering to reply.
I believe there was a cap in 2.0...
Feel kindof humiliated saying there was a cap when someone called me a nooblet... am I a nooblet?
I know pistol scripts are all over the place - however, are the scripts breaking the rules, if indeed there is a pistol cap?
I feel wierd.
Thanks for bothering to reply.
Comments
If that is the case, aren't those with pistol scripts "hacking"? Or, to put it more lightly, hurdling over hard-coded (or so it seemed) rules?
If one with a script can fire faster than the programmed "limit", is that not deeming that player unsuitable to play in a legitimate Natural Selection environment?
How much does a pistol script bridge the rules, or bend the rules?
Or perhaps, if I'm totally wrong, does a script not break the rules, and just fire as fast as the limit?
If so, that limit needs to be greatly increased!
I mean, who ever EVER saw a man in real life shoot 10 un-automatic pistol rounds in < 1 second?
Come on!
usually they just bend peoples morals <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
usually they just bend peoples morals <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that is the case, then pistol fire speed needs to be thought about. Perhaps a higher limit on the rate at which it fires? I can foresee .2 of a second (per bullet) to be a legitimate, life-like cap?
This is serious, you've got skulks dying before they see their enemy (who is straight ahead).
However, I also realize that a great strength of the pistol is it's firing speed... thus, if something were to happen, the pistol damage should either be upped, or balanced somehow.
10 rounds < 1 second (think about that)
I can shoot my pistol without help @ 10 rounds in 2.5 seconds.
NS should atleast have a little more realism with weapon mechanisms. Unless ofcourse, this pistol is designed to be able to fire that fast (uber TSA technology or future human twitch muscles are just mind blowing.)
Nanites.
An example: the rate of fire on pistol is, according to the <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/manual_version_2/Natural_Selection_Manual_Framed.html' target='_blank'>manual</a> is 5.0 shots a second, or 0.20 seconds per shot. My tests were averaging 0.1 second delay inbetween shots.
The rate of fire cap on LMG is reported as 10 shots a second, or 0.1 seconds per shot. My tests were getting approximately 0.05-0.06 seconds per shot.
But let's just blame the nanites. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
An example: the rate of fire on pistol is, according to the <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/manual_version_2/Natural_Selection_Manual_Framed.html' target='_blank'>manual</a> is 5.0 shots a second, or 0.20 seconds per shot. My tests were averaging 0.1 second delay inbetween shots.
The rate of fire cap on LMG is reported as 10 shots a second, or 0.1 seconds per shot. My tests were getting approximately 0.05-0.06 seconds per shot.
But let's just blame the nanites. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, you should report that bug ASAP! If any weapon can fire twice as fast (approx?) as it should, that's a serious issue. Especially in competitive play. Hives and oni go down (potentially) twice as fast.
Hmm, somethings gotta be done. Might as well start informing other people thru this topic.
Read: It is not hard to click your mouse button as fast as the cap on the pistol's rate of fire.
You do not need a script, although some say that using a script makes it easier to aim. I guess these people suffer from slow neuron action potentials and cannot control their fingers enough so that the mouse does not fly all over the place from the abuse.
Try it yourself. Join a server and unload your pistol clip as fast as you can into the wall. If your mouse is squeaking all over the place, then you are clicking too hard - stop the abuse. You should be able to do this in 2-3 seconds max, otherwise you are a little bit slow in this department. People with good muscle-nerve coordination can achieve it in under 2 seconds without the decals going in all directions.
If you feel that the pistol fires too fast, then consider the fact that there are pistols today that can fire that quickly. Of course, they won't be as accurate with current technology. NS is set quite a bit in the future, but I am sure that you have noticed this by now.
Hmm, somethings gotta be done. Might as well start informing other people thru this topic.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The issue is not that the weapons are firing faster than they are supposed to. If that were the case, it would have such a drastic effect on gameplay that all balance would be lost. The actual issue here is that the attack rates reported by the manual are incorrect.
But the issue isn't just that someone put the wrong numbers into the manual. Something posted a while back:<!--QuoteBegin-XP-Cagey+Mar 8 2004, 09:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XP-Cagey @ Mar 8 2004, 09:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-a civilian+Mar 8 2004, 04:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a civilian @ Mar 8 2004, 04:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-XP-Cagey+Mar 7 2004, 03:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XP-Cagey @ Mar 7 2004, 03:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The new manual has most of those numbers, and they were automatically filled from the beta 3 blanace.txt file:
<a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/manual_version_2/Natural_Selection_Manual_Framed.html' target='_blank'>http://www.natural-selection.org/manual_ve...ual_Framed.html</a><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately Balance.txt and thus the manual contain incorrect values for attack rates of weapons and abilities. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The source code and the code that outputs balance.txt use the same source location to get their numbers; unless the version of balance.txt you're looking at is out-of-date, there shouldn't be a discrepency. Balance.txt is automatically generated as a part of the build process, so the file distributed with the beta 3 patch should be correct.
Are the attack rates off by a consistent amount? Perhaps there's a scaling factor being applied to the balance variables by the game code that I'm not aware of...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't bother asking if using scripts is "against the rules" -the minority that uses them will chop your head off (until all scripts are denied <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). Besides, even with a mouse you can fire your pistol empty in about 2 seconds, no big deal.
If you attempt to do that now, you will find that there is a speedcap on the pistol. It does allow for fast shooting, but it's nowhere near as fast as it was.
Just out of curiousity, why?
This game isn't supposed to be realistic so why limit the game to 'realism'.
I actually can't stand realistic games, they always value 'realism' of good gameplay, I guarentee if you took CS's style of gaming and put it in a sci-fi or fantasy environment (or even just a low-realism military style like TFC) then you could create far better weapons which would be far more balanced and make the game far better (and so playable).
It'd also scare off loads of idiots too which would be nice. Until that happens (and it won't) I won't be playing CS ever again.
Hey that's my jump button <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Bunny hop power.
But back to topic, i know quite alot people who can fire the pistol really fast. So where is the problem?
If you are geting owned as skulk then try ambushing instead of running towards a marine
alias -pscript "-attack; wait; +attack; wait; -attack"
That will fire 2 shots; one when you fire, one when you release fire. Allows to to click to fire (rather than autoamtic fire, which is wasteful,) and will reach the ROF cap rather than falling to 1/2 of it. (Ie, if you fire when the ROF is in place, then release when it has finished. With this script you will fire on the release, rather than waiting until you depress the mouse button once more.)
This is how (I imagine,) people can fire quickly. Either that or they have a very sensitive or well-worn mouse1 button.
--
Useage: (For those of you not familiar with scripting)
Personally I have it in a setup like this:
alias rine_pistol "slot2;xx_sens 15;exec pscript.cfg"
bind 2 +rine_pistol
Where pscript.cfg contains the snipet of code above, but with one more line:
alias +pscript "+attack"
alias -pscript "-attack; wait; +attack; wait; -attack"
bind mouse1 +pscript
Now when you draw your pistol, (with keyboard 2 in my case, other people use more custom controls,) your mouse button1's click now fires 2 shots with 1 click/release action, and your sensitivity is increased. (Change xx to a value higher than your normal LMG one.)
You also then need a script or a seleciton alias to remove the 2shot bind from mouse1 when you switch to LMG (not really knife.)
--
Sorry if anyone does not like me posting that, but scripting is here to stay. This is not the thread to discuss scripting itself; just the ROF cap.
Indeed. The cap is not very severe, as it's not supposed to make the pistol "slow." It's there to prevent players from firing all of their pistol rounds so quickly that it appears that they fire at the same time.
Second, if you fire faster, you use ammo faster, and if you miss, you're dead. Try dodging the shooter. Try ambushing him. For goodness sake don't crouch walk to him from the front, because that will KILL you.
Thirdly, the manual is often wrong and the real balancing takes place IN THE GAME. The manual could say "shotguns fire a small tactical nuke doing 250 damage" and it'd make no difference to how the game is balanced because its a separate process.
Like if you buy a retail game, they always have the fine print saying check the README because manual doesn't cover last minute changes. Its the same for NS - the manual will give you a decent enough grasp of the game, but expect a few tweaks.
And if someone destroys you with an "unfeasibly high rate of fire" don't automatically assume its because of cheats/bugs. Nor do we confuse weapons of the future with weapons in current use today.
Hey that's my jump button <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Bunny hop power. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
n000000000000000000000000b
Wasn't pistol supposed to be capped at 7 rounds per second?
up = jump
down = shoot
or was it the other way? I don't allways remember, sometimes when I get attacked by a skulk I just go up and down and jump and shot like a mad man.....doesn't allways work but ya know what can ya do
Perspective?
Anyway, there's two stages where the basic point is to fire as many rounds as humanly possible into a nigh-stationary target.
With the bulldozer, it generally takes about 60 shots to blow it up.. the car falling from the building takes 50 (And slowly gets bigger).
I finish each in less then 3 seconds, but then again, I hold the gun with one hand, and ratchet my arm (With my finger through the trigger guard) to fire the gun.
Wouldn't suprise me if a marine did this. :o