oh how could I have forgotten about "skill" ... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I guess I'm just not that worried about this, since it won't let a bad team beat a better team (loller 1.0 jets and early 2.0). The whole "it's not very fun" thing is true for me, but some people love it, and meh. If a pub game turns into a farmfest, then I just leave. If a clan game does it, well - I did clan play for a couple years, and making it to playoffs in season 1, and then omega playoffs in season 3, is as good as I'm liable to do anyways, so I'm done.
Kavasa that's the problem... it does let a marine team beat a better alien team. All the marines need to know how to do is just +use... Once those turrets go up it's pretty much game over unless they make a huge mistake
I found a perfect example of this today on ns_eclipse.
We took the 3 main rine nodes, triad, horseshoe, and alpha. Next we just farmed them so bad we struggled to walk throught them, if it was a food farm, world hunger would be solved, but that's not the point. And then with 4 nodes, we saved enough res to jp/sg rush there hive(s)
<!--QuoteBegin-waller+Aug 19 2004, 01:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (waller @ Aug 19 2004, 01:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I found a perfect example of this today on ns_eclipse.
We took the 3 main rine nodes, triad, horseshoe, and alpha. Next we just farmed them so bad we struggled to walk throught them, if it was a food farm, world hunger would be solved, but that's not the point. And then with 4 nodes, we saved enough res to jp/sg rush there hive(s) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Assuming that aliens had all other nodes.. where the hell were the fades?
This is the main point, Nada: Turret farms are meant as a deterrent. And a farm with a marine guarding it SHOULD be difficult to take down.
But he's already invested a bunch of res on the farm itself.. not to mention the manpower of guarding it.
Why did the aliens let it happen again? If they lock down two hives with turret farms, it's your own fault for putting down a M or S, dude. It's not unbalanced turrets.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
The problem, I believe is static defenses do have a place, but they're one extreme or the other.
Vs Skulks & Lerks, a well designed few turrets are nigh impregnable. Vs a Fade(s) and onwards, they're a minor irritation.
Static defense should not be your be all & end all, it should be a speedbump to keep the aliens busy long enough for you (As Commander) to deploy true defense, in the form of active marines. The problem comes because vs Skulks there's no need to deploy (the turrets will probably see them off, you just need a welder to wander his merry way down there) and vs Fades/Onos the farm (and the PG with it) vanish faster than you could hope to deploy marines.
Either way, active defense becomes increasingly unlikely unless you already had your squad armed & ready to go by the PG, an unlikely event if you want to be proactive in the hive winning stakes.
I do agree with Forlorn though : I'd love to see a way to stop your starting hive becoming the deciding factor with some teams/maps. It's devastating to play well, and lose simply because you drew a side hive, and the comm lamed the central one faster.
<!--QuoteBegin-Delphi+Aug 19 2004, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delphi @ Aug 19 2004, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-waller+Aug 19 2004, 01:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (waller @ Aug 19 2004, 01:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I found a perfect example of this today on ns_eclipse.
We took the 3 main rine nodes, triad, horseshoe, and alpha. Next we just farmed them so bad we struggled to walk throught them, if it was a food farm, world hunger would be solved, but that's not the point. And then with 4 nodes, we saved enough res to jp/sg rush there hive(s) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Assuming that aliens had all other nodes.. where the hell were the fades?
This is the main point, Nada: Turret farms are meant as a deterrent. And a farm with a marine guarding it SHOULD be difficult to take down.
But he's already invested a bunch of res on the farm itself.. not to mention the manpower of guarding it.
Why did the aliens let it happen again? If they lock down two hives with turret farms, it's your own fault for putting down a M or S, dude. It's not unbalanced turrets. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i'm not sure acually. they did have fades but we just phased and shoed them away/welded there damage. I forgot to inclue with had sloop and maint too <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think we can all agree that a good clan will stop a bad clan from even seeing the hive.
But a middling-good clan vs. a very good one, say the blackmarket vs. wmd match. Bm has more deathmatching talent and better teamwork, although Pogo can stand up to most players in the American competitive community. So let's say it's Tanith, alien hive is waste, and wmd shoots for fusion to turret it up in the lamest way possible. They're going to have to push really hard, probably through the chem side, to get there, and they'll arrive at the hive around a minute in, I'd think - without putting any pressure on bm's nodes.
So what I see happening is bm doesn't lose any nodes, and wmd is looking at 3:30 fades (romano and keyser). Further, they're looking at them without any upgrades. What I see happening from here is bm putting pressure on wmd's base and taking sat at the same time, and I don't think wmd will have the upgrades and guns to keep them out of sat, partially because they put 65-100 resources into fusion (tf, elec, turrets, phase).
Of course, the root criticism - throwing yourself at automated defenses sucks - still holds. I could see taking out sentries and just having elec + sieges.
kavasa keep in mind I'm mainly talking about pubs.. I don't really mind if it works or not in clan games because it DOES in pubs and it's really skilless/pointless/boring/stupid/amazingly dumb.
<!--QuoteBegin-Delphi+Aug 19 2004, 12:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delphi @ Aug 19 2004, 12:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Assuming that aliens had all other nodes.. where the hell were the fades?
This is the main point, Nada: Turret farms are meant as a deterrent. And a farm with a marine guarding it SHOULD be difficult to take down.
But he's already invested a bunch of res on the farm itself.. not to mention the manpower of guarding it.
Why did the aliens let it happen again? If they lock down two hives with turret farms, it's your own fault for putting down a M or S, dude. It's not unbalanced turrets. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Assuming the aliens have all the nodes? What version of NS do you play where aliens can cap more than 2-3 nodes early game and actually have a chance at holding them? How do you stop a bunch of LMG marines with armor1 at 2-3 minutes in? With skulks? No way.
A turret farm with a shotgun marine should be difficult to take down? Why? Is a bunch of OCs with a Gorge hard to take down? No. Siege/GL and it's gone. Bile is a decent counter, but you need 2 hives for that, and if they have both hives locked down, you're screwed. There is pretty much no way in hell you're getting that 2nd hive back and so you're just waiting to die.
It's my fault for putting down M or S? In almost all games where this happens, you get regen fades but it still doesn't matter because the turrets wear away at your armor (regen overflowing will NOT be near enough to fix this) and the marines ONLY have to worry about fades. Marines with shotties/hmgs vs a few fades = fades run or die. Aliens need skulks to have a chance.
Assuming there is no PG, a gorge or fade can take down the tfarm. Even with PGs, a fade still has chances. If the first chamber is sens and you're playing a pub game where the comm locked down the two hives, you can still put it up if you have 70 res. (Since the comm was tfarming, you should have map control) However, this won't work if there is a PG or an obs, so it must be done early-game.
Put a sens near the tfarm, but where the turrets can't see it. Proceed to build the hive. If the turrets see it, build an OC in front of it to distract the turrets while it cloaks. Or if there is a PG, you can try to be a cloaked onos, sneak near the PG and kill it.
If you have DC (again, assuming you had the trouble to control the map while the comm was tfarming) just go onos and smash the structures in order: PG, TF, Turrets/Others. The marine team will have less than 15 seconds to respond to the PG being smashed and you can even devour the first one that enters it.
The onos may be a not-so-good creature, but it is definitely good at destroying tfarms. That's because os it's =~ 400dmg/s (200dmg/attack) against structures and 1/2 damage reduction against turrets. Electricity is also nothing compared to that huge beast. And with HP flowing to armor in beta 5, you will definitely have a tfarm breaker.
On the other hand, if the chamber is MC and the marines lock down both hives, sorry, but you lost.
And don't say marines will come through the PG before you can destroy it. Remember, you are talking about PUBs. If they react so fast, the problem is not turret farming, but skill stacking.
And I don't care about pubs, because I just leave games that turn into that. Or alternatively steal gear and die in a random hive with it, just for fun. And hell, some pubs <i>love</i> the fifty-minute turtle.
I think the best solution would just be to stop them from getting to that middle hive.
Skulks can do some damage to turrets guys, I mean your sacraficing your life but why not? You'll die twice per turret killed. I'ld say it's worth it.
And with the sens rush, just build the sens, then the hive, then distract the turrets with your little gorge posterior <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> , then run away behind a wall.
I'll agree with you Nadagast though, there is a problem on pubs.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes an Onos can kill a farm but if just 1 HMG phases through the onos has to run or die... and they will have HMGs by the time you have onos. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes that is the big issue here. It would not really be that hard to kill the marine if the onos would not get stuck at any structure in that base while the marine hides behind the armory and unloads his magazine.
Maybe it would be sufficient to allow the onos to walk "through" smaller structures like sentries without clipping. Assuming he is large enough to just step over them. This feature would also give Aliens an edge at endgame stalements.
Just an idea, but its a small one that could have a great impact.
<!--QuoteBegin-Alkiller+Aug 19 2004, 10:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Alkiller @ Aug 19 2004, 10:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Skulks can do some damage to turrets guys, I mean your sacraficing your life but why not? You'll die twice per turret killed. I'ld say it's worth it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> To have any success with that you'll need pretty much the entire team to rush it. Even then, you have the problem that a) mines and b) marines can quickly end your rush.
No big deal you say, just do it over? Well, a) your Fades may or may not have died in the process - b) marines are still teching all over the map while you attempt that. The only valid counterpoint to "turrets are not uber" is that they're mostly applicable only to stall out games that have already been won. Thats largely true, but provided some intelligent use not so - and can in turn lead to superbly boring games.
A simple solution is to make pub comms think more about where/how many TFs they place. Have the cost step up by 20 res for each turret factory beyond the first.
I don't think that turrets are problem. Marines can either have one big turret farm, decent upgrades, or higher tech weapons, but not all of the above at time when fades come (2:30-5:00).. Single fade can eliminite outposts with almost unliited number of turrets, if he manages to kill rines first. And onos, while terribly weak against marines, can eliminite any number off turrets, since they do just 1/2 to him. Ok, it's hard to attack say viaduct with onos, but it's an exception.
The turret farming pub strats i'v seen so far usually failed, if marines don't pressure aliens, they loose. It sometimes works, if aliens have SC or MC first, or just give up, but with DC, outposts are usually destroyed quick. Anyway if aliens allowed rines to reach and secure both hives, it's their fault, they should never allow it.
From perspective of comm, I rarely use turrets and I see turrets only as a support, skulk killer (less efficient than mines) and alarm. It helps if fade attacks TF or turret first before PG, but they rarely kill something. If I can choose between 1.5 turret and hmg or 1 turret and sg, choice is clear..
Raising the cost wouldn't solve it because then turrets are still strong. I'd suggest reducing their damage to 2. Seriously. Why should you play a multiplayer game on the internet to play against computerized turrets? Make them 99% worthless imo.
Turrets are crazy strong now IMO, 5 turrets and a tf with a pg is impenentrable unless marines are a) have a iq of 10 b) are sieging the hive ive seen many 5 minute 2 hive lockdowns that have gone to 45-60 minutes, as 1 tf and 1 marine can usually hold off a pub fade, and by the time they have 1 hive regen onos marines have lvl 2-3 hmgs which just tear the onos to pieces
onos buff would be good=x
turrets need to be maxed at 5 turrets per tf, and max of 10 per room
electricity nerf = electrified structures take 1.5x damage
<!--QuoteBegin-kabab+Aug 20 2004, 07:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kabab @ Aug 20 2004, 07:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its only a problem in large games..
In 6 vs 6 games you can't afford to get turrets because fades come much earlier and no upgrades vs fade = gg
Its only in larger games where Aliens SUFFER from slow respawn rate and res where this is an issue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> NS was only made for 6v6, so i doubt the devs would listen to that.
NS will only survive as a game with big games people just don't like 6 vs 6 pubs, clan matches are a different matter but for pubs people like BIG CHAOTIC GAMES thats what brings new people to the game.
Just making turrets worthless or too expensive isn't going to solve anything. We're not trying to make them completely gimped here. If anything turrets need to be made more effective for other valid strategies, and just made unable to lock down a hive. Maybe a simple area limit like with OCs is the solution to the latter?
Limiting per area is such a blatently obvious solution i dont know why its been ignoreed/overlooked. I mean there was obviously a good reason for the limit on OCs but why wasnt the same logic applied to turrets?
Anyone who says that you can't make a viable turret strat in a 6v6 competitive game is flat out wrong.
I played a scrim where my team, as marines, built a large number of turrets in the base, and turret farmed every res node. Six turrets, elec tfac, elec node at every node. Two hive lock down. In the process we also killed every alien expansion node. By the time there was an onos, we had heavies + hmgs + decent upgrades. There was literally nothing the alien team could do.
limiting them per area isn't enough imo, just reduce their damage to 2. Even if you limit turrets/room to 8, that's still plenty of turrets when combined with elec to hold off any amount of skulks and fades with MINIMAL marine support.
Comments
We took the 3 main rine nodes, triad, horseshoe, and alpha. Next we just farmed them so bad we struggled to walk throught them, if it was a food farm, world hunger would be solved, but that's not the point.
And then with 4 nodes, we saved enough res to jp/sg rush there hive(s)
We took the 3 main rine nodes, triad, horseshoe, and alpha. Next we just farmed them so bad we struggled to walk throught them, if it was a food farm, world hunger would be solved, but that's not the point.
And then with 4 nodes, we saved enough res to jp/sg rush there hive(s) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Assuming that aliens had all other nodes.. where the hell were the fades?
This is the main point, Nada: Turret farms are meant as a deterrent. And a farm with a marine guarding it SHOULD be difficult to take down.
But he's already invested a bunch of res on the farm itself.. not to mention the manpower of guarding it.
Why did the aliens let it happen again? If they lock down two hives with turret farms, it's your own fault for putting down a M or S, dude. It's not unbalanced turrets.
Vs Skulks & Lerks, a well designed few turrets are nigh impregnable. Vs a Fade(s) and onwards, they're a minor irritation.
Static defense should not be your be all & end all, it should be a speedbump to keep the aliens busy long enough for you (As Commander) to deploy true defense, in the form of active marines. The problem comes because vs Skulks there's no need to deploy (the turrets will probably see them off, you just need a welder to wander his merry way down there) and vs Fades/Onos the farm (and the PG with it) vanish faster than you could hope to deploy marines.
Either way, active defense becomes increasingly unlikely unless you already had your squad armed & ready to go by the PG, an unlikely event if you want to be proactive in the hive winning stakes.
I do agree with Forlorn though : I'd love to see a way to stop your starting hive becoming the deciding factor with some teams/maps. It's devastating to play well, and lose simply because you drew a side hive, and the comm lamed the central one faster.
- Shockwave
We took the 3 main rine nodes, triad, horseshoe, and alpha. Next we just farmed them so bad we struggled to walk throught them, if it was a food farm, world hunger would be solved, but that's not the point.
And then with 4 nodes, we saved enough res to jp/sg rush there hive(s) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Assuming that aliens had all other nodes.. where the hell were the fades?
This is the main point, Nada: Turret farms are meant as a deterrent. And a farm with a marine guarding it SHOULD be difficult to take down.
But he's already invested a bunch of res on the farm itself.. not to mention the manpower of guarding it.
Why did the aliens let it happen again? If they lock down two hives with turret farms, it's your own fault for putting down a M or S, dude. It's not unbalanced turrets. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i'm not sure acually. they did have fades but we just phased and shoed them away/welded there damage.
I forgot to inclue with had sloop and maint too <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think we can all agree that a good clan will stop a bad clan from even seeing the hive.
But a middling-good clan vs. a very good one, say the blackmarket vs. wmd match. Bm has more deathmatching talent and better teamwork, although Pogo can stand up to most players in the American competitive community. So let's say it's Tanith, alien hive is waste, and wmd shoots for fusion to turret it up in the lamest way possible. They're going to have to push really hard, probably through the chem side, to get there, and they'll arrive at the hive around a minute in, I'd think - without putting any pressure on bm's nodes.
So what I see happening is bm doesn't lose any nodes, and wmd is looking at 3:30 fades (romano and keyser). Further, they're looking at them without any upgrades. What I see happening from here is bm putting pressure on wmd's base and taking sat at the same time, and I don't think wmd will have the upgrades and guns to keep them out of sat, partially because they put 65-100 resources into fusion (tf, elec, turrets, phase).
Of course, the root criticism - throwing yourself at automated defenses sucks - still holds. I could see taking out sentries and just having elec + sieges.
This is the main point, Nada: Turret farms are meant as a deterrent. And a farm with a marine guarding it SHOULD be difficult to take down.
But he's already invested a bunch of res on the farm itself.. not to mention the manpower of guarding it.
Why did the aliens let it happen again? If they lock down two hives with turret farms, it's your own fault for putting down a M or S, dude. It's not unbalanced turrets. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Assuming the aliens have all the nodes? What version of NS do you play where aliens can cap more than 2-3 nodes early game and actually have a chance at holding them? How do you stop a bunch of LMG marines with armor1 at 2-3 minutes in? With skulks? No way.
A turret farm with a shotgun marine should be difficult to take down? Why? Is a bunch of OCs with a Gorge hard to take down? No. Siege/GL and it's gone. Bile is a decent counter, but you need 2 hives for that, and if they have both hives locked down, you're screwed. There is pretty much no way in hell you're getting that 2nd hive back and so you're just waiting to die.
It's my fault for putting down M or S? In almost all games where this happens, you get regen fades but it still doesn't matter because the turrets wear away at your armor (regen overflowing will NOT be near enough to fix this) and the marines ONLY have to worry about fades. Marines with shotties/hmgs vs a few fades = fades run or die. Aliens need skulks to have a chance.
<!--emo&::hive::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/hive5.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='hive5.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Put a sens near the tfarm, but where the turrets can't see it.
Proceed to build the hive. If the turrets see it, build an OC in front of it to distract the turrets while it cloaks. Or if there is a PG, you can try to be a cloaked onos, sneak near the PG and kill it.
If you have DC (again, assuming you had the trouble to control the map while the comm was tfarming) just go onos and smash the structures in order: PG, TF, Turrets/Others. The marine team will have less than 15 seconds to respond to the PG being smashed and you can even devour the first one that enters it.
The onos may be a not-so-good creature, but it is definitely good at destroying tfarms. That's because os it's =~ 400dmg/s (200dmg/attack) against structures and 1/2 damage reduction against turrets. Electricity is also nothing compared to that huge beast. And with HP flowing to armor in beta 5, you will definitely have a tfarm breaker.
On the other hand, if the chamber is MC and the marines lock down both hives, sorry, but you lost.
And don't say marines will come through the PG before you can destroy it. Remember, you are talking about PUBs. If they react so fast, the problem is not turret farming, but skill stacking.
And I don't care about pubs, because I just leave games that turn into that. Or alternatively steal gear and die in a random hive with it, just for fun. And hell, some pubs <i>love</i> the fifty-minute turtle.
I think the best solution would just be to stop them from getting to that middle hive.
Skulks can do some damage to turrets guys, I mean your sacraficing your life but why not? You'll die twice per turret killed. I'ld say it's worth it.
And with the sens rush, just build the sens, then the hive, then distract the turrets with your little gorge posterior <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> , then run away behind a wall.
I'll agree with you Nadagast though, there is a problem on pubs.
Yes that is the big issue here. It would not really be that hard to kill the marine if the onos would not get stuck at any structure in that base while the marine hides behind the armory and unloads his magazine.
Maybe it would be sufficient to allow the onos to walk "through" smaller structures like sentries without clipping. Assuming he is large enough to just step over them.
This feature would also give Aliens an edge at endgame stalements.
Just an idea, but its a small one that could have a great impact.
Skulks can do some damage to turrets guys, I mean your sacraficing your life but why not? You'll die twice per turret killed. I'ld say it's worth it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
To have any success with that you'll need pretty much the entire team to rush it. Even then, you have the problem that a) mines and b) marines can quickly end your rush.
No big deal you say, just do it over? Well, a) your Fades may or may not have died in the process - b) marines are still teching all over the map while you attempt that. The only valid counterpoint to "turrets are not uber" is that they're mostly applicable only to stall out games that have already been won. Thats largely true, but provided some intelligent use not so - and can in turn lead to superbly boring games.
The turret farming pub strats i'v seen so far usually failed, if marines don't pressure aliens, they loose. It sometimes works, if aliens have SC or MC first, or just give up, but with DC, outposts are usually destroyed quick. Anyway if aliens allowed rines to reach and secure both hives, it's their fault, they should never allow it.
From perspective of comm, I rarely use turrets and I see turrets only as a support, skulk killer (less efficient than mines) and alarm. It helps if fade attacks TF or turret first before PG, but they rarely kill something.
If I can choose between 1.5 turret and hmg or 1 turret and sg, choice is clear..
ive seen many 5 minute 2 hive lockdowns that have gone to 45-60 minutes, as 1 tf and 1 marine can usually hold off a pub fade, and by the time they have 1 hive regen onos marines have lvl 2-3 hmgs which just tear the onos to pieces
onos buff would be good=x
turrets need to be maxed at 5 turrets per tf, and max of 10 per room
electricity nerf = electrified structures take 1.5x damage
In 6 vs 6 games you can't afford to get turrets because fades come much earlier and no upgrades vs fade = gg
Its only in larger games where Aliens SUFFER from slow respawn rate and res where this is an issue.
In 6 vs 6 games you can't afford to get turrets because fades come much earlier and no upgrades vs fade = gg
Its only in larger games where Aliens SUFFER from slow respawn rate and res where this is an issue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS was only made for 6v6, so i doubt the devs would listen to that.
NS will only survive as a game with big games people just don't like 6 vs 6 pubs, clan matches are a different matter but for pubs people like BIG CHAOTIC GAMES thats what brings new people to the game.
But i think they will soon, if not tryd to in b5.
I played a scrim where my team, as marines, built a large number of turrets in the base, and turret farmed every res node. Six turrets, elec tfac, elec node at every node. Two hive lock down. In the process we also killed every alien expansion node. By the time there was an onos, we had heavies + hmgs + decent upgrades. There was literally nothing the alien team could do.