Evolve On Spawn
project_demon
Join Date: 2003-07-12 Member: 18103Members
Join Date: 2003-07-12 Member: 18103Members
<div class="IPBDescription">aliens evolve on spawn</div> this was really the change that made marines overpowered in co maps, every time an alien onos would die, he has to spent the 1rst 30 sec when he spawn to evolve... and not only that, what if ur hive is getting attacked by marines, u die as onos and u spawn as useless skulks against HMG and JP and HA WTH <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->?
to balanec this, they should do same thing for marines... when a marine jp dies, he would have to wait at least 20 sec to get his jp back... same thing for HA...
and may be 10 sec for his weapons....
if this stays like this, aliens are doomed...
to balanec this, they should do same thing for marines... when a marine jp dies, he would have to wait at least 20 sec to get his jp back... same thing for HA...
and may be 10 sec for his weapons....
if this stays like this, aliens are doomed...
Comments
equal in ns 3.0 beta 4a. I guess this is one of the things they're implementing to
even things out, especially now that they added wavespawn as standard.
Not to say this is a bad idea, but the time suggested seems a bit long.
Edit: I said 'downside' instead of 'dowtime' <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Having played a dozen or so CO games in Beta5, I have to say the having to re-evolve at spawn is almost ridiculous… all it takes is marines to get 1 decent sweep of your team, and then have 2 HA-HMGers who weld each other and they can own the alien team for days. Because you either get killed spawning, get killed as an egg, or get killed as a skulk trying to munch a HA…
Seriously… no one wants to play Aliens in CO anymore, it is a big marine stack.
Either make it fair, or take it out. There are a number of ways to do this.
1) Make it so as suggested Marines have to rebuy their upgrades at respawn also… either near the CC or armoury… and it takes time to upgrade, this can easily be justified as the time it takes to strap-on your JP, or get inside your HA.
2) Make Combat evolving almost instant (not my personal choice)
3) [My idea and the one I think would work best] Make it so that you respawn as the same life form you died as, but you can devolve into any lower life form (without refund)… for example, you’re an onos, but you really need to become a gorge for a bit, then you devolve to a gorge (usual gorge gestation time)… you do not get a refund on levels, but when you die as that gorge, you respawn as an onos again. This allows some freedom with life forms, meaning no one has to perma-gorge ever again. But stops marines from been able to easily destroy a hive in late game because all they have to face is spawning skulks, and they have JP/HA and HMG/GL/SG…
While yes it does hurt to have to re-evolve the gestation times are much faster than in regular NS and it offers you much more flexability.
onos are only for offense against HA.
An additional benefit to this change is that it better simulates classic NS. New players will learn to avoid death as a higher lifeform.
While yes it does hurt to have to re-evolve the gestation times are much faster than in regular NS and it offers you much more flexability. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is its upside, however, the main problem is the ease of spawn camping marines. Aliens cannot let a single marine near their hive otherwise it's over, which kinda sucks <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If only 1/3 of your team dies and a few assassins came in, then yell at the other 2/3.
Now I ask you.
How did all your team die in the first place and none of the marines didn't?
It also effects you when your trying to the rine CC...
OK, so your a alien team and your on the verge of winning, your attacking marine spawn, and the CC... now... because rines spawn with FULL eq in this system (as always)... chances are they will focus fire on the oni, and then the fades... so the onos go down... now they take 30 seconds to re-evolve and get back up to push the attack...
by the time that happens, the rines have killed the fades (sure some of them will die, but they respawn with full gear, and quite fast with wave spawning, so no biggie)... and the skulks/lerks, are welding the CC, while some JPers, stand waiting for the onos to come, because they are immune to stomp, they will kill it before it even gets close...
The only real way to win as aliens is to some how survive for long enough to get an organised mass fade/onos rush.
That all said, Redemption is a MUST for any alien higherlife now.
Personally I think that it should change from map to map... so a marine stacked map will have aliens playing defensive, and they win if they survive.
But on an alien stacked map, it changes so that Marines only have to survive the onslaught.
But, yes I get what your saying, I just don’t like it… forcing the aliens to always play the defensive is annoying… in B4 it was fine, as even though aliens were defensive, they still had the ability to win (most of the time unless marines worked together and moved in squads). But I still don’t like the fact the only real chance aliens have in a game with a roughly even talent spread, is to all out defend, and wait for the time limit.
Skulks have leap to get out quickly, don't even tell me fades will have problems getting away, lerks are just easy to fly away, poor fatty will die though.
The point is, Khaara were to overpowered because fades could take out 2-3 marines at a time before dieing, then respawned when 2 marines were still dead without Cheesy's.
Now, the Khaara shouldn't stick around the CC besides for early game munch EXP, and, if they were doing so well that the marines were vastly under leveled, destory them.
Combat is now what it exactly was meant to be, a modded Boot Camp that gives you soft pentalties for dieing compared to the real thing, it teachs players that killing 2 marines out of six marines <i>as a lone fade</i> is not how you're suppose to play, you're suppose to not die, ever, as a high level life form without butchering a lot of marines.
Its not fun for the Khaara, but it was <i>very</i> hard for marines to win, you had to weld and get resupply to ever push to the hive after the 2 minute mark without focusers just utterly slaughtering you and spores stripping you of armor every 10 seconds, then add fade hit and runs for the average pub game for the lose.
Remember, with the new spawning system it isnt 1 skulk vs 3HA's. Its alot more and 5 or so skulk can EASILY take on a HA <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So aliens spawn as skulks... can any one here remind me that chances of a SKULK vs HA+HMG ? of course HA will win... he would even win more easily if he had shotgun...
So a "Waiting-Tech" system should be made for marines 2 in order to keep the current alien system and balance the game out...
in some maps, rines don't even have to enter to the hive room... they could shoot it easily from a tunnel or a vent... what chances skulks have against that...
nyway... i'm sure they'll figure something out
Beta 5 hasn't been out even a day and you're already balancing it <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> . Give it a week or two and come back.
Afaik, the new alien evolution system has made Combat a lot more fun.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=79648' target='_blank'>An unofficial Public Service Announcement</a>.
Beta 5 hasn't been out even a day and you're already balancing it <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> . Give it a week or two and come back.
Afaik, the new alien evolution system has made Combat a lot more fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
eh, well, 1 thing, MAJOR ISSUES could be detected from your 1rst game...
now of course marines won't win in all servers... why?
CAUSE ns is getting better and better as we go, so more ppl are starting to play it, therefore , there are lots of nubz in the servers...
the key to a better version is having bad things in older versions.... and untill ns is perfect, they will keep changing and trying to balance it...
There is no way to balance a game.you'd probably say" why? how? WTH u talking about?"
Consider this, if everybody had same skillz, same thinking, same preferances, THEN, yes you can balance a game. But the fact is we are all different, and that's what's so special about us humans (doing some philosophy here lol )...
So what we could still do or at least try to do, is TRY TO MAKE THE GAME CLOSEST POSSIBLE TO "BALANCE"
i am ready to go further with this...
Not these kind of issues. It only takes a simple, individual strategy change to neutralize much of the disadvantage that the evolve-on-respawn system gives the aliens. Once more players test out this strategy, we can see if this is a major gameplay issue.
People just need to play more cautiously now. Of course a Skulk doesn't have much of a chance against high-level marines; that's why you avoid dying as a higher lifeform. If every higher lifeform dies late in the game, the aliens deserve to lose.
but this devolve thing seems good 2
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At this stage, it should be impossible to knock them back.. if this occurs, you lost!
[Edit] why don't they just put a devolve ability (only for alien classes... doesn't work for upgrades) [Edit]
That's the idea. Don't get killed as a higher life form, or your team might lose.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[Edit] why don't they just put a devolve ability (only for alien classes... doesn't work for upgrades) [Edit]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because you're missing the point. It wasn't implemented to let aliens switch species whenever they want, the entire purpose behind this change was to delay the respawning of higher life forms.
An additional benefit to this change is that it better simulates classic NS. New players will learn to avoid death as a higher lifeform. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So true... I just played a few co rounds and I liked it... It gives flexibilty while not overpowering aliens after a while... It is possible to knock back SK's, If the hive room gives you enough cover for escaping to a vent or a safe place... If not... Im sure it is better to change hive rooms of co maps than deintegrating spawning as a skulk...
I know you guys have been saying that higher lifeforms should be more careful, and even all the skulks should play defensive. It's like that in theory but in pubs, esp 20 people big ones, there's a problem. In most pubs there will be noobs rushing the marines and basically committing suicide. When the whole alien team dies, it takes like 30 secs to respawn and when you do, you respawn as a skulk?! By that time your hive would either be dead or the whole rine team would be in your hive.
ps. I also find it a lot harder to fade or onos without dying because of the new shottie. I have to constantly hit and run to survive. While it should be that way in NS, it really doesn't help to hit and run when 4 rines are rushing to your hive. Before, I could just take out like 2 rines and have the 3rd badly injured and sacrifice myeslf...
So IMO, to balance it, the respawn system should be timed something like instead of default '5', do like .75*(number of players on team). So on 20 people pubs, 7 people can spawn at once.