It's hardly idealized. People make their own decisions about where they go in their life, and if you understand the system and how to succeed, you can go as far as you want to go. However, working hard all of your life for someone else means that you will probably not succeed. America is made for entrepenuers, not employees.
I don't see people as victims, I see them as people who have the same oppurtunity as me. If you want to make it happen, you can make it happen, no matter what. It's just easier to work for someone else, because there is little personal responisibility and less stress. People make decisions that affect their lives in dramatic ways. I do not feel sorry, nor will ever feel sorry, for someone who is at the "bottom," because I'm a believer in the idea that, no matter what, if you want something that badly, you will get it.
Liberals see people as victims of themselves and of some mean capitalist society out to oppress the little guy. I see the "little guy" as little because of himself; if he wants to be Mr. Big, he needs to get on the path to become Mr. Big. No book on "nice people that work 2 jobs to support themselves" is ever going to change that firmly held belief of mine.
Some people are saying "All Kerry has is that he isn't Bush." Now, even if that's true, that's really all I need, given Bush's history of blatant lies, boneheaded international moves (like refusing to participate in global warming talks, starting a war on false grounds, moving without international support) and his whacked out support of an <i>amendment to the constitution</i> simply to ban **** marriage.
On topic, the website seems to be a bit liberal-slanted if you look at the US numbers there. However a 10:1 ratio on a whole lot of countries is pretty crazy.
(edit) Wow, the censoring system is kind of stupid. You all know what I meant anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin-RandomEngy+Sep 14 2004, 02:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RandomEngy @ Sep 14 2004, 02:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Some people are saying "All Kerry has is that he isn't Bush." Now, even if that's true, that's really all I need, given Bush's history of blatant lies, boneheaded international moves (like refusing to participate in global warming talks, starting a war on false grounds, moving without international support) and his whacked out support of an <i>amendment to the constitution</i> simply to ban **** marriage.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It irritates me when people come out and say Bush lied.
<!--QuoteBegin-camel fetus+Sep 12 2004, 01:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (camel fetus @ Sep 12 2004, 01:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->He never "lied" unless you have some cold hard proff that he knew our intelligence was/is flawed. He did what most leaders would have done, trusted the intelligence that seemed to be true and acted upon it in a way that seemed fit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And about his decision to move with widespread support was the right move IMO. Many of the countries that stood in our way (France, Germany, etc.) would lose financial gains from the selling of missiles and other devices a leader like Saddam should not possess. Also, if the world does not feel the same way about an issue pertaining to the USAs interests, defenses, etc., then why should we trust them? They dont have more information about how threatening a country is to the USA (atleast I sure hope not), so why do we need to bow to them if they oppose?
I think Bush is the right man to be in office at this time in history because he makes key decisions that may not necessarily be popular but are right and he also doesnt change his decision if the support shifts away from it so he can be perceived as popular.
I'm sorry, widespread support? You don't include UN in there do you? Because last time I checked, the US took action three times without the UN's approval in the last 15 years.
there are 2 main reasons why they would vote that way
1) they dont want bush invading them <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2) they know carey is going to cut the military budget so they want america to be weak
Bush isn't banning **** marriage. It's complicated. He's simply trying to save the religious implication that marriage is a union of love between a man and a woman. He's doing this for the church, not the state.
**** couples can still legally be called "married," it's just not recognized by the church. Well, hell's bells, most **** people I know won't be getting married in a church, by a church, in accordance with a church's rules anyway, right?
It irritates me that many USA companies care more for their money than for the weather. Luckily this is just a "virtual" poll, so I can happily vote Kerry without looking up my info first
<!--QuoteBegin-Chrono+Sep 14 2004, 10:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chrono @ Sep 14 2004, 10:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> there are 2 main reasons why they would vote that way
1) they dont want bush invading them <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2) they know carey is going to cut the military budget so they want america to be weak <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1
I just wanna play HL2 in dutchy style peace <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I didn't vote for either of them, don't know anything about politics.
I live in germany. And I don't owe ANYONE ANITHING! It happened 60 years ago damnit. Most ppl that live today weren't even born. So why the heck are you still argueing about that ****?
I don't tell you: Yeah well 300 years ago some **** got a ship and found the way to US. You owe us everything..... Nor do I say... first human came from africa... HAIL AFRICA!
of course the world wants kerry, its because kerry is gonna have no spine and then stop the war on terror and the terrorists can continue to harass the world, Bush stood up for us and everyone hates him, I really could care less what other countries think about us, but I know Kerry is a yellow belly coward, ive read books that were writeen by his unit in nam, they said he turned tail and RAN in fights... hes no leader, hes a coward
<!--QuoteBegin-007+Sep 14 2004, 04:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (007 @ Sep 14 2004, 04:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> of course the world wants kerry, its because kerry is gonna have no spine and then stop the war on terror and the terrorists can continue to harass the world, Bush stood up for us and everyone hates him, I really could care less what other countries think about us, but I know Kerry is a yellow belly coward, ive read books that were writeen by his unit in nam, they said he turned tail and RAN in fights... hes no leader, hes a coward <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you're referring to the Swift Boat Veteran for Truth group, their credibility had been shot down to zero ages ago. Exactly one man who is in his unit has a negative opinion of him. The rest of the people in the book never served with him.
Try reading New York Times, CNN, Chicago Tribune, MSNBC, CBS.
Whats more important to me is that once he returned from service, he went on to portray his felow soldiers as baby-killers and murderers who committed heinous war-crimes. However, many of the events he described were actually false and/or blown out of proportion. To me, this is just dispicable. And then he has the balls to come out and campaign about his four month service and how he is a great "war hero." Hios actions after the war and today are mind-blowing to me.
And if he wants to win the election, he needs to focus on the present not the past.
Edit: Just because the soldiers werent directly under his command on his boat does not mean that the Swift Boat Vets are bs. Most patrols and missions were done with 2 or more boats and therefore other officers and soldiers observed Kerry and his actions.
If you're ever curious about what crap (I can say crap, right?) the Bush Administration is doing to the environment, check here. <a href='http://www.bushgreenwatch.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.bushgreenwatch.com/</a>
I mean, fudge, they freakin' <a href='http://www.bushgreenwatch.org/mt_archives/000127.php' target='_blank'>changed </a> the definition of "endangered" for the Pacific Salmon! That's a great way to take a specie off the endangered list! Change the definition of "endangered"? Gah! Sure, it's a salmon, but freakin' a man, isn't that <b>SLEAZY as hell?</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Whats more important to me is that once he returned from service, he went on to portray his felow soldiers as baby-killers and murderers who committed heinous war-crimes. However, many of the events he described were actually false and/or blown out of proportion. To me, this is just dispicable. And then he has the balls to come out and campaign about his four month service and how he is a great "war hero." Hios actions after the war and today are mind-blowing to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
please stop the nit-picking of war records. is it wrong now to protest war because you fought in it? if anything, soldiers have a greater right, if not a duty, to voice their opinions in a war they could've lost their lives over. name me one campaigner, protester, or public spokesman who has NEVER exaggerated anything to enforce their point. the entire point of protest and public display is to bring to the spotlight a little known issue, like **** rights or war crime.
as for the medals, anyone who is willing to judge a man's ability as a leader based on how many awards he's won does not deserve the right to vote. the entire debate about medals is so that the real issues can be skipped over for the much more trivial and overly dramatic debate about something that happened decades ago.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->of course the world wants kerry, its because kerry is gonna have no spine and then stop the war on terror and the terrorists can continue to harass the world, Bush stood up for us and everyone hates him, I really could care less what other countries think about us, but I know Kerry is a yellow belly coward, ive read books that were writeen by his unit in nam, they said he turned tail and RAN in fights... hes no leader, hes a coward<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
please, go get yourself shot. die. because that's what veterans have to go through in wars. you might not care about foreign relations, but believe it or not, the U.S. is not the only country in the world. of course, you've probably been born and raised here, and the most you know about China, Russia, Korea, or Vietnam is "communism." do some research by people who aren't in SBVT, or at least quote one of these books if you're going to even bother jumping in a political debate, because it is really clear that you have no idea what you're talking about.
let's summarise. 1. critcizing Kerry's tendency to flip flop is ok. 2. misspelling his name is NOT ok. 3. attempting pot shots at his credibility based on the credibility of his medals shows just how vain you are in the selection of your leaders. if you're on this boat, you can go sink right along with your "swift boat" pals.
camO.o, it is wrong to do what he did. He called his fellow soldiers baby killers and what have you, then later on down the road went on to call himself a hero. I still believe that he lied about his purple hearts just to escape Vietnam, too.
I happen to personally know one vet, who got his 3 and was officially released from duty. But requested that he be sent back to Vietnam to fight with the men he had been serving with the whole time, he went on to be awarded another 2 purple hearts. That is a real man, that is who should be running the country. (a real man, that is. Bush, not Kerry.)
Comments
I don't see people as victims, I see them as people who have the same oppurtunity as me. If you want to make it happen, you can make it happen, no matter what. It's just easier to work for someone else, because there is little personal responisibility and less stress. People make decisions that affect their lives in dramatic ways. I do not feel sorry, nor will ever feel sorry, for someone who is at the "bottom," because I'm a believer in the idea that, no matter what, if you want something that badly, you will get it.
Liberals see people as victims of themselves and of some mean capitalist society out to oppress the little guy. I see the "little guy" as little because of himself; if he wants to be Mr. Big, he needs to get on the path to become Mr. Big. No book on "nice people that work 2 jobs to support themselves" is ever going to change that firmly held belief of mine.
On topic, the website seems to be a bit liberal-slanted if you look at the US numbers there. However a 10:1 ratio on a whole lot of countries is pretty crazy.
(edit) Wow, the censoring system is kind of stupid. You all know what I meant anyway.
It irritates me when people come out and say Bush lied.
<!--QuoteBegin-camel fetus+Sep 12 2004, 01:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (camel fetus @ Sep 12 2004, 01:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->He never "lied" unless you have some cold hard proff that he knew our intelligence was/is flawed. He did what most leaders would have done, trusted the intelligence that seemed to be true and acted upon it in a way that seemed fit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And about his decision to move with widespread support was the right move IMO. Many of the countries that stood in our way (France, Germany, etc.) would lose financial gains from the selling of missiles and other devices a leader like Saddam should not possess. Also, if the world does not feel the same way about an issue pertaining to the USAs interests, defenses, etc., then why should we trust them? They dont have more information about how threatening a country is to the USA (atleast I sure hope not), so why do we need to bow to them if they oppose?
I think Bush is the right man to be in office at this time in history because he makes key decisions that may not necessarily be popular but are right and he also doesnt change his decision if the support shifts away from it so he can be perceived as popular.
1) they dont want bush invading them <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2) they know carey is going to cut the military budget so they want america to be weak
**** couples can still legally be called "married," it's just not recognized by the church. Well, hell's bells, most **** people I know won't be getting married in a church, by a church, in accordance with a church's rules anyway, right?
Luckily this is just a "virtual" poll, so I can happily vote Kerry without looking up my info first
1) they dont want bush invading them <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2) they know carey is going to cut the military budget so they want america to be weak <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1
I just wanna play HL2 in dutchy style peace <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I didn't vote for either of them, don't know anything about politics.
I live in germany. And I don't owe ANYONE ANITHING! It happened 60 years ago damnit. Most ppl that live today weren't even born. So why the heck are you still argueing about that ****?
I don't tell you: Yeah well 300 years ago some **** got a ship and found the way to US. You owe us everything..... Nor do I say... first human came from africa... HAIL AFRICA!
If you're referring to the Swift Boat Veteran for Truth group, their credibility had been shot down to zero ages ago. Exactly one man who is in his unit has a negative opinion of him. The rest of the people in the book never served with him.
Try reading New York Times, CNN, Chicago Tribune, MSNBC, CBS.
And if he wants to win the election, he needs to focus on the present not the past.
Edit: Just because the soldiers werent directly under his command on his boat does not mean that the Swift Boat Vets are bs. Most patrols and missions were done with 2 or more boats and therefore other officers and soldiers observed Kerry and his actions.
I mean, fudge, they freakin' <a href='http://www.bushgreenwatch.org/mt_archives/000127.php' target='_blank'>changed </a> the definition of "endangered" for the Pacific Salmon! That's a great way to take a specie off the endangered list! Change the definition of "endangered"? Gah! Sure, it's a salmon, but freakin' a man, isn't that <b>SLEAZY as hell?</b>
please stop the nit-picking of war records. is it wrong now to protest war because you fought in it? if anything, soldiers have a greater right, if not a duty, to voice their opinions in a war they could've lost their lives over. name me one campaigner, protester, or public spokesman who has NEVER exaggerated anything to enforce their point. the entire point of protest and public display is to bring to the spotlight a little known issue, like **** rights or war crime.
as for the medals, anyone who is willing to judge a man's ability as a leader based on how many awards he's won does not deserve the right to vote. the entire debate about medals is so that the real issues can be skipped over for the much more trivial and overly dramatic debate about something that happened decades ago.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->of course the world wants kerry, its because kerry is gonna have no spine and then stop the war on terror and the terrorists can continue to harass the world, Bush stood up for us and everyone hates him, I really could care less what other countries think about us, but I know Kerry is a yellow belly coward, ive read books that were writeen by his unit in nam, they said he turned tail and RAN in fights... hes no leader, hes a coward<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
please, go get yourself shot. die. because that's what veterans have to go through in wars. you might not care about foreign relations, but believe it or not, the U.S. is not the only country in the world. of course, you've probably been born and raised here, and the most you know about China, Russia, Korea, or Vietnam is "communism." do some research by people who aren't in SBVT, or at least quote one of these books if you're going to even bother jumping in a political debate, because it is really clear that you have no idea what you're talking about.
let's summarise.
1. critcizing Kerry's tendency to flip flop is ok.
2. misspelling his name is NOT ok.
3. attempting pot shots at his credibility based on the credibility of his medals shows just how vain you are in the selection of your leaders. if you're on this boat, you can go sink right along with your "swift boat" pals.
I happen to personally know one vet, who got his 3 and was officially released from duty. But requested that he be sent back to Vietnam to fight with the men he had been serving with the whole time, he went on to be awarded another 2 purple hearts. That is a real man, that is who should be running the country. (a real man, that is. Bush, not Kerry.)
There.. now this should stir things up.
Oh, and Canada owes nothing to anyone!
Plus we've kinda strayed from the entire original point. So....
***Locked***