Uk Guardian Campaign, Affecting The Us Elections
Kalias
Superskulk Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2560Members
Superskulk Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2560Members
<div class="IPBDescription">"Operation Clark County"</div> Firstly, a link to satiate your website obsessive needs.
<a href='http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1326033,00.html' target='_blank'>http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/...1326033,00.html</a>
A quick rundown. American politics affect the whole world in many ways, the environment and foreign policy for example, the Guardian believes it's a bad thing that the rest of the world has little say in such things and has started an initiative to make some sort of difference.
Basically the newspaper is suggesting UK readers write to a US voter in a "swing state", a location where the votes are very close, if you're unfamiliar with American voting it goes like this, votes for a location are counted up, and whichever side has the most is declared the "winner" and given a point, it doesn't matter if they win with 95% or 51%. (I have major issues with these methods but that bit is a matter for another discussion.)
Basically, they suggest you write to "registered independent" (which I assume means they don't state a preference) voters in these states and try to convince them to vote for your preferred candidate. Information of note is that they don't suggest which side you should vote for, and only one letter will be recieved by each person (though I do find the idea of giving away peoples addresses mildly disturbing... even if "The data on which our system is based is publicly available").
In addition they suggest contacting american media in attempts to put stories into the public eye via newspapers, radio and so on.
Again, the story lists media from both sides for people to contact.
So, what are your views on this?
Keep it civil please, I've had quite my fill of insulting, xenophobic and just plain idiotic replies on the <a href='http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1329858,00.html' target='_blank'>guardian's reactions page.</a> Sheesh.
Oh... one last thing, the campaign site, just for further informative purposes. <a href='http://guardian.assets.digivault.co.uk/clark_county/' target='_blank'>http://guardian.assets.digivault.co.uk/clark_county/</a>
<a href='http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1326033,00.html' target='_blank'>http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/...1326033,00.html</a>
A quick rundown. American politics affect the whole world in many ways, the environment and foreign policy for example, the Guardian believes it's a bad thing that the rest of the world has little say in such things and has started an initiative to make some sort of difference.
Basically the newspaper is suggesting UK readers write to a US voter in a "swing state", a location where the votes are very close, if you're unfamiliar with American voting it goes like this, votes for a location are counted up, and whichever side has the most is declared the "winner" and given a point, it doesn't matter if they win with 95% or 51%. (I have major issues with these methods but that bit is a matter for another discussion.)
Basically, they suggest you write to "registered independent" (which I assume means they don't state a preference) voters in these states and try to convince them to vote for your preferred candidate. Information of note is that they don't suggest which side you should vote for, and only one letter will be recieved by each person (though I do find the idea of giving away peoples addresses mildly disturbing... even if "The data on which our system is based is publicly available").
In addition they suggest contacting american media in attempts to put stories into the public eye via newspapers, radio and so on.
Again, the story lists media from both sides for people to contact.
So, what are your views on this?
Keep it civil please, I've had quite my fill of insulting, xenophobic and just plain idiotic replies on the <a href='http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1329858,00.html' target='_blank'>guardian's reactions page.</a> Sheesh.
Oh... one last thing, the campaign site, just for further informative purposes. <a href='http://guardian.assets.digivault.co.uk/clark_county/' target='_blank'>http://guardian.assets.digivault.co.uk/clark_county/</a>
Comments
I would further suggest that non-US entities that try to sway US citizens to vote in certain ways will face a double edged sword. They should prepare themselves for some intense scrutiny. Also, I have been hearing ads on local radio stations attempting to convince us that Saudi Arabia as a State, is our friend. They mention nothing about the upcoming election but I have to draw distinction that they've started playing within the last month.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My dear, beloved Brits,
I understand the Guardian is sponsoring a service where British citizens write to Americans to advise them on how to vote. Thank heavens! I was adrift in a sea of confusion and you are my beacon of hope!
Feel free to respond to this email with your advice. Please keep in mind that I am something of an anglophile, so this is not confrontational. Please remember, too, that I am merely an American. That means I am not very bright. It means I have no culture or sense of history. It also means that I am barely literate, so please don't use big, fancy words.
Set me straight, folks!
Dayton, Ohio <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While US policy does affect other nations, it remains at a fundamental level, US policy. Even if the letters don't ask people to vote for a specific candidate, the hostility to the letters is understandable. Americans are fiercely independent on matters of sovereignty and letters from non-Americans telling us what to do, even in a polite and non-partisan way, would be regarded as a horrific intrusion. Considering that every American learns in grade school that the British tried to squash our freedoms prior to the American Revolution, I'd say the vitriol would be expected.
As for the responses, it's a newspaper and they're going to pick the most sensational because it will sell papers. I think that the Guardian launched this campaign without really considering American views on national sovereignty and independence.
Especially when some Limey bastard starts telling me what's what.
allcaps++
United States<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this:<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->KEEP YOUR ****' LIMEY HANDS OFF OUR ELECTION. HEY, ****, REMEMBER THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR? REMEMBER THE WAR OF 1812? WE DIDN'T WANT YOU, OR YOUR POLITICS HERE, THAT'S WHY WE KICKED YOUR **** OUT. FOR THE 47% OF YOU WHO DON'T WANT PRESIDENT BUSH, I SAY THIS ... TOUGH ****!
PROUD AMERICAN VOTING FOR BUSH!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and this:<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->THE AMERICAN TAXPAYERS HAVE SPENT TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS PROTECTING THE PEOPLES OF THE EU, AND WHAT DO WE GET IN RETURN. BETRAYAL, BETRAYAL, BETRAYAL. I HAVE BEEN TO YOUR COUNTRY, THE COUNTRY OF MY ANCESTORS, AND I KNOW WHY THEY LEFT.
MAY YOU HAVE TO HAVE A TOOTH CAPPED. I UNDERSTAND IT TAKES AT LEAST 18 MONTHS FOR YOUR GREAT MEDICAL SERVICES TO GET AROUND TO YOU. HAVE A GREAT DAY.
Harlan, Kentucky <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
just make me laugh my **** off.
I <span style='color:red'><3</span> the internet <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Someone needs to create the perfect word to describe people so rediculous that in their daily lives they are parodies of themselves. Troll just doesn't seem to cut it. It's not funny enough of a word. B00b maybe?
Feed the trolls for fun and laughs!!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Feed the trolls for fun and laughs!!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Erm, while they could have articulated their points a bit better and the caps certainly don't help, I really don't see anything funny about them, however I find it hilarious that this British newspaper would try to pull stupid **** like this.
Whether a person is voting for Bush or for Kerry, a letter from Britain telling them what?s what and who to vote for is most likely going to **** them off, I know if I get one I'm going to have a great laugh, then throw it away.
And they say <i>we're</i> arrogant. Psh.
Awww come on now.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Unless you would like a company of US Navy Seals - Republican to a man - to descend upon the offices of the Guardian, bag the lot of you, and transport you to Guantanamo Bay, where you can share quarters with some lonely Taliban shepherd boys.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a parody of itself.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
OK OK, that guy is just nuts. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
What I was trying to say is that I think their anger is 100% justified, the person from Dayton summed my feelings up nicely.
It's unfortunate that The Sun is <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
While I don't think it will be very effective, what about it do you find offensive? We get mail all the time from various groups that want to influence how we vote. Why is this different? They clearly have a stake in the outcome of the election, so I don't see any problem with them trying to persuade voters.
anyway, to all those crazy brits who don't support the US, bugger off, ya smegheads <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> if ya don't like our policy, dethrone that Tony Blair git and put someone else who doesn't lick Bush's boots.
Do we interfere with Britain’s elections? Imagine their reaction if the NY Times asked us all to send British voters info and opinions on why they should vote for the candidate we want them to vote for.
I'm sure they would just <i>love</i> that.
America is a sovereign nation and the leader of the world and deep down I think almost every American takes pride in this, and stuff like this is just going to bring up these feelings of pride. The result in most cases will be anger, resentment, mild amusement, the quiet death of any Brit who is dumb enough to send one of those out by SEAL Team 6. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Really it's just common sense that most Americans won't like this
We're not attempting to invade, we're not taking away the ability to make up your own mind, we're using a different perspective and the freedom of information act to give an oppinion on something that will doubtless affect us all.
I love <i>The Guardian</i>, but I'm glad to see their little project here being cut to ribbons - it struck me as highly retarded when it was in G2 last week.
As an adult, I have both lived with and have friends who are teachers. In fact, my ex-gf is a teacher. Their habit of spending much of their time lecturing people who are 12 years old generally goes to their head and the end up thinking that anyone can benefit from their accumulated wisdom.
This kind of "initiative" is the result.
(I know that this statement is a sweeping one and I have encountered several humble, self-aware and intelligent teachers in my time. But they formed the minority.)
I can't think of anything more "un-American" than trying to prevent your countrymen exercising their right to vote.
...and Marine01 gets restricted?
What in the world makes you think the average British citizen is prepared to give me information on my election? I frrget American R teh dummeors of the wordl. Al teh Eruopians aer aso muhc smartre thye muts tel em woo too voet fur.
We don’t mess with Britain’s elections they shouldn’t mess with ours, it’s that simple.
It also is fairly typical of american pubic opinion at this point.
there are 4 people in the entire country who havent made up their minds any one who says differnt is afraid the poll guy is trying to sell him long distance or is part of the vast left/right wing conspiricy.
I will admit that the average american couldn't pick the Queen out of a lineup, even if she was wearing a crown.
But, that doesnt limit their ability to watch fox news/ cnn/ the daily show and make informed statements about world events. And/or Threaten to kill/maim/destroy you/your country/your family pet.
I'm sure they would just <i>love</i> that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, most Brits would be a confused if Americans sent them letters about a guy called "Michael Howard". "Who is he?", they would ask, before turning back to page three of The Sun.
a) No-one reads the Guardian - so don't worry
b) Although the Sun is more widely read - I believe the heart of public opion in Britain is "The Daily Sport" -
c) America couldn't influence UK elections even if they wanted to.. this is because:
i ) Here, no-one thinks very highly of the opinions of 90% of americans
ii ) Here there is a direct correlation between getting votes and winning elections - unlike in america
iii ) Most people don't even bother to vote in the UK - so it would be a bit hit+miss
iv) Effecting our elections would make no difference - both major parties are center-right(ish) and stand for the same things (more or less)
v) UK politics make no difference to the rest of the world - at least we want to mess up your elections for the good of mankind <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Even if British people were to make every person in US vote against him - Bush would still win - basically because the US is the only country in the world where each gallon of oil also recieves the vote <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Even if British people were to make every person in US vote against him - Bush would still win - basically because the US is the only country in the world where each gallon of oil also recieves the vote <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really 90% didn't know you guys we're so fat headed and arrogant, or maybe it's just you.
Yes....Bush and his oil baron buddies are going to steal the election with a Halliburton funded insurrection. Now put your tin foil hat back on before the NSA steals your soul.
Likewise - the american media personalities seem - well - overtly thick? A bit slow or a little contrived?
And i am stating a fact when i say nobody listens to 90% of americans - America's gained a very unfavourable image over here recently.
Don't want to start a fight though - if i meet an American who speaks good sense i'll be the first to congratulate him....
This adds nothing to the discussion. You've offered no evidence to back up your generalizations and instead are just perpetuating sterotypes.
On the actions of the Guardian:
I don't have a problem with people outside the US lobbying for or supporting a particular candidate. Its always been done, overtly or covertly, in the US and around the world. The Guardian is fooling themselves if they think they'll have an impact, though.
edited my bad spelling