Yes Thanks for pointing out in numbers what all of us have been saying for awhile. The marines are still too powerful. Also the siege gun is bs and their turrets are way better, and smaller, than the aliens. Yes I know you can stack the aliens..yada..yada..yada it still doesn't help against a siege cannon and a marine in ha + hmg. He cuts through our offensive turrets like butter. Yet with an Onos with Carapace and adrenaline its still takes forever to destroy a single turret. I was playing bast last night and had all three hives, was onos like above. When I rushed marines base I made a vee line for the turret factory which was COMPLETELY surrounded by turrets. I lived for about 5 - 7 secs before I got shredded. I hadn't even destroyed one turret yet to get to the factory. BS is what I say. I'm getting fed up with the balance in this game and almost went back to other games last night. I hope it changes. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
i say they up onos to 95 credits and make him more godly..... i never play as onos. i like lerk and skulk..... lerk so doesnt get enough credit.... and he needs more damage on his spikes.
<!--QuoteBegin--Smellslikefeces+Nov 14 2002, 12:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Smellslikefeces @ Nov 14 2002, 12:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm getting fed up with the balance in this game and almost went back to other games last night. I hope it changes. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The balance is good. The problem is people are using aliens in a bad way. Like: don't attack a marine base with Onos. It is useless. Better use Fades and their bile bomb. The splash are is really big and this way, you can destroy many turrets before dying (and if you are good, then you don't die).
Use the numbers from my test to find out what is good against what. Aliens can not live long in marine fire (HMG or turrets). They must use a hit & run tactic! And repeat that forever (or until you destroy those marines).
When attacking with bile bombs try to throw them as near as possible to Turrets factory.
i just tried the crouched in a vent thing. i killed several skulks by slashing them with my knife and they never even injured me despite the fact that they were standing right up to me so close that i was inside them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Marines because the aliens aren't always standing still
and the HMG shoots rather wildly so 25 bullets doesn't always hit <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you assume that marines allways stand still? Btw, acid rocket is slow while hmg bullets hit instantly, so its much easier to hit a moving target with hmg than with ar.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok Ravline First of all why are you comparing a fade to a HMG. HMG with HA are the most powerfull marine so why dont you take the most powerfull alien (ono) and redo your test. Maybe then it will even out for you. Fade vs HMG NO ARMOR is a good fight. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it is hard to compare onos with marines (they have no ranged attack). And a ha/hmg marine with full upgrades costs 50 rp (if he takes the equipment of another marine who just died even less) while a fade with full upgrades costs 50 rp as well. So this is a fair comparison.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On destroying turrets: use Fade with Adrenaline, Regeneration and Cloacking. Close on turrets throw some bile bombs (or acid rockets, they have also good splash area) and retreat.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually this would be a very bad idea. Against structures bile bomb is more or less useless right now because of a bug. Instead of doubling the normal damage it halves it. So instead of doing 160dmg to structures you only do 40. With the low rate of fire and the high adrenaline consumption you can bilebomb forever.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The balance is good. The problem is people are using aliens in a bad way. Like: don't attack a marine base with Onos. It is useless. Better use Fades and their bile bomb. The splash are is really big and this way, you can destroy many turrets before dying (and if you are good, then you don't die).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, you are using aliens in a bad way. See post above. Bilebomb vs structures is nearly useless right now due to bug. Onos on the other hand with gore are quite effective... just have to get close range which is very painfull most of the time.
Anyone arguing balance between the races is probably misled by the idea that an alien and a marine are supposed to offer a fair 1v1 fight. This is not the case. When you realize that Natural Selection is balanced like an RTS rather than an FPS, all will be in harmony.
Still, what the hell are we supposed to kill HA HMG marines with?
Its hard enough to melee the broad side of a barn with pings jumping from 300-2600 in a few seconds. I will admit, I love my Fade, and I have killed a few HA marines with it. Although the risk is usually not worth the time.
Usually if I can get my measly 4-5 acid rockets off, and manage to hit the marine a few times I have a chance to melee him down before I get killed. But if he has a Comm medding him, screw it.
Last night I had a Fade shooting me with acid rockets, I was in heavy armor. I was walking backwards to the base in super slow mode while he took potshots at me the whole time. I made it inside our base with a good 30ish health left. This is after maybe 10-15 seconds of hit and run acid rocket attacks on me.
The game is pretty balanced, but for all the upgrading and hive capturing I would wish I could last more then 3 seconds infront of a HMG. Remember, although Aliens are great at melee, guns can be used in melee AND at range.
Why I still use Bile Bombs (even with half damage)? Because they have big splash area! (I've seen it, when the damage in numbers feature was turned on). This way you hit most structures with some 40 damage, but you hit most of them! Acid rocket is also good, but it has smaller splash area (so you don't hit so many structures). This way I can bomb the marine base and live for a long time (if I'm carefull). Onos attack is perhaps good but he will sooner or later die (respawn, gestate, upgrade, move to base - a lot of time). Fade bombing - it is a constant pressure (and this is important, even if it is slower) !!!!!!!! When bombing, try to throw those bile bombs near the turret factory (so you are killing turret factory and some nearby turrets). This tactic is very useful when making the final attacks on marine base (first destroy all outposts they may have).
I dont know about anyone else, but i find fades are THE ha/hmg killers. 1v1 i can count the number of times i've lost on one hand. 2v1 is difficult, but doable.
USE BLINK. USE SLASH.
the moment you see the ha, blink beside him. that will disorient him for a moment, and saves you getting shot at while running in. start slashing away and circle-strafing around him. everytime you connect, his aim gets thrown off. if his bullets start landing, switch directions. Its incredibly simple. The key is to stick right beside him, as its much harder for him to aim. The farther you are, the easier it is for him to keep a constant stream of lead heading at you.
<!--QuoteBegin--Bridger+Nov 14 2002, 05:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bridger @ Nov 14 2002, 05:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->onos charge destroys turrets in like 3 seconds flat, combine that with umbra and spore cloud and you've got a lot of dead turrets.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Spores don't work on turrets you know.
the moment you see the ha, blink beside him. that will disorient him for a moment, and saves you getting shot at while running in. start slashing away and circle-strafing around him. everytime you connect, his aim gets thrown off. if his bullets start landing, switch directions. Its incredibly simple. The key is to stick right beside him, as its much harder for him to aim. The farther you are, the easier it is for him to keep a constant stream of lead heading at you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Perhaps I should send you some of the HA marines that frequent the servers I play on. They have absolutely no trouble whipping their mouse around and hitting you for the 2-3 seconds it take to kill a fade. Blink, cloak, or whatever you use to jump them with only gives you a swipe or two head start. Sure, occasionally you get lucky and strafe confuses them long enough to get a kill, but from all of the encounters I have witnessed, it is usually the fade that goes down. And often pretty quickly.
<!--QuoteBegin--Tactician+Nov 14 2002, 05:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tactician @ Nov 14 2002, 05:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyone arguing balance between the races is probably misled by the idea that an alien and a marine are supposed to offer a fair 1v1 fight. This is not the case. When you realize that Natural Selection is balanced like an RTS rather than an FPS, all will be in harmony.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So true...
People expect to be godlike when they go onos or HA.. rushing a base on their own and such, dying, and then whining about how unbalanced the game is.
Blink is so messed up on when it works and when it dosent that in the 5 seconds your sitting there clicking like a madman trying to get it to work the marine will likely be laughing his **obscenity** off wondering why your standing there.
I would preffer something like the personal teleporter in UT, would still allow for sneak attacks (bait them one way, then port behind them) but it would work 100% of the time.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ravlin+Nov 13 2002, 07:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ravlin @ Nov 13 2002, 07:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I must correct myself. I have just tested it again. Marine: heavy armor (100 health, 200 armor) Fade: acid rocket
It took my 9 shots to kill him. I have repeated it for three times and always the same. 9 shots. I was watching two monitors (one was runnig the marine and the other was running Fade).
I'm runnig the game at LAN right now, so if you have any suggetions what should be tested just write it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> how much damage does welders do to unarmored Khaaran's??? and by that I mean 1 welding minimum possible damage <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Read through this entire thread, and no one even corrected Ravlin. While your math is correct, you also forget to use variables. A moving fade with regeneration(or carapace for that matter) and defense chambers will always win. Always. They can just run back, fully heal, and go attack again. This is what marines seem to forget. Just sitting there, waiting for the Fade to come back, and wondering why it won't die. It won't EVER die! And to continue, while a HA/HMG marine can get health and ammo from his commander, he has a long reload time, which gives the fade a few more swipes or rockets. Also, no armor = instant kill with two swipes or almost 3 rockets. So, you're wrong. Blah. :P
<!--QuoteBegin--Tazol+Nov 14 2002, 04:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tazol @ Nov 14 2002, 04:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Read through this entire thread, and no one even corrected Ravlin. While your math is correct, you also forget to use variables. A moving fade with regeneration(or carapace for that matter) and defense chambers will always win. Always. They can just run back, fully heal, and go attack again. This is what marines seem to forget. Just sitting there, waiting for the Fade to come back, and wondering why it won't die. It won't EVER die! And to continue, while a HA/HMG marine can get health and ammo from his commander, he has a long reload time, which gives the fade a few more swipes or rockets. Also, no armor = instant kill with two swipes or almost 3 rockets. So, you're wrong. Blah. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, you are right. My point was not to say who is better and who is weaker. I only wanted to show interesting statistics. There is too much variables to make and objective test. The biggest unknown variable is the player who is actually playing. If he is too lame, nothing will help him. And people who can really use all special features can overcome even some HA marines with HMG (or Fades with defense chambers support).
The real value from my tests is: How powerful each weapons are against enemy. It is only on the player how he will use them.
Some tactics you CAN learn from those tests, like don't try to overcome marine in HA and HMG in medium range fight (Fade will die sooner) and so on.
<!--QuoteBegin--Windelkron+Nov 13 2002, 08:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Windelkron @ Nov 13 2002, 08:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Especially when you consider that turrets do MORE damage than the HMG does. (I still can't understand the reasoning behind that! argh!)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think the idea is that the turret just has a bigger gun. I mean, think about a Real life tank with a machine gun turret on it. That would typically be more powerful than a machine gun that a soldier is walking around with. Or think about WWII with the large mounted machine guns vs there standard arms. The turrets were stronger there too.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A moving fade with regeneration(or carapace for that matter) and defense chambers will always win. Always. They can just run back, fully heal, and go attack again. This is what marines seem to forget. Just sitting there, waiting for the Fade to come back, and wondering why it won't die. It won't EVER die!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all this is not true. An hmg (if the user can actually hit) can take out a fade (even with carapace) very fast. But you are of course right, a defense chamber is very nice to have around for an alien. Same as (siege)turrets for marines. Problem is they dont build themselves. So if you want to rambo some aliens who actually do some teamwork you might have a problem. Same (and even more so) goes for an alien trying to rambo marines who do teamwork (turrets, med packs, welders just to name a few of them).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And to continue, while a HA/HMG marine can get health and ammo from his commander, he has a long reload time, which gives the fade a few more swipes or rockets.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually not. Fades use up energy with their attack and even with adrenaline fades have to "reload" much earlier than marines. Anyway, before a hmg marine has to reload he put out bullets worth 3450 points of damage. If that is still not enough he maybe should start aiming at the fade.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, no armor = instant kill with two swipes or almost 3 rockets. So, you're wrong. Blah. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, another one of those fair comparisons i read lots of. So you complain that an alien who spent between 44 and 50 rp for his spawn has advantages over a marine who spent 0? Why dont you compare skulks with hmg/ha marines?
Comments
The balance is good. The problem is people are using aliens in a bad way.
Like: don't attack a marine base with Onos. It is useless. Better use Fades and their bile bomb. The splash are is really big and this way, you can destroy many turrets before dying (and if you are good, then you don't die).
Use the numbers from my test to find out what is good against what.
Aliens can not live long in marine fire (HMG or turrets). They must use a hit & run tactic!
And repeat that forever (or until you destroy those marines).
When attacking with bile bombs try to throw them as near as possible to Turrets factory.
-edit- damn swear filter. -/edit-
and the HMG shoots rather wildly so 25 bullets doesn't always hit <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you assume that marines allways stand still? Btw, acid rocket is slow while hmg bullets hit instantly, so its much easier to hit a moving target with hmg than with ar.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok Ravline First of all why are you comparing a fade to a HMG. HMG with HA are the most powerfull marine so why dont you take the most powerfull alien (ono) and redo your test. Maybe then it will even out for you. Fade vs HMG NO ARMOR is a good fight. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it is hard to compare onos with marines (they have no ranged attack). And a ha/hmg marine with full upgrades costs 50 rp (if he takes the equipment of another marine who just died even less) while a fade with full upgrades costs 50 rp as well. So this is a fair comparison.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On destroying turrets: use Fade with Adrenaline, Regeneration and Cloacking. Close on turrets throw some bile bombs (or acid rockets, they have also good splash area) and retreat.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually this would be a very bad idea. Against structures bile bomb is more or less useless right now because of a bug. Instead of doubling the normal damage it halves it. So instead of doing 160dmg to structures you only do 40. With the low rate of fire and the high adrenaline consumption you can bilebomb forever.
Like: don't attack a marine base with Onos. It is useless. Better use Fades and their bile bomb. The splash are is really big and this way, you can destroy many turrets before dying (and if you are good, then you don't die).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, you are using aliens in a bad way. See post above. Bilebomb vs structures is nearly useless right now due to bug. Onos on the other hand with gore are quite effective... just have to get close range which is very painfull most of the time.
Its hard enough to melee the broad side of a barn with pings jumping from 300-2600 in a few seconds. I will admit, I love my Fade, and I have killed a few HA marines with it. Although the risk is usually not worth the time.
Usually if I can get my measly 4-5 acid rockets off, and manage to hit the marine a few times I have a chance to melee him down before I get killed. But if he has a Comm medding him, screw it.
Last night I had a Fade shooting me with acid rockets, I was in heavy armor. I was walking backwards to the base in super slow mode while he took potshots at me the whole time. I made it inside our base with a good 30ish health left. This is after maybe 10-15 seconds of hit and run acid rocket attacks on me.
The game is pretty balanced, but for all the upgrading and hive capturing I would wish I could last more then 3 seconds infront of a HMG. Remember, although Aliens are great at melee, guns can be used in melee AND at range.
Because they have big splash area! (I've seen it, when the damage in numbers feature was turned on).
This way you hit most structures with some 40 damage, but you hit most of them!
Acid rocket is also good, but it has smaller splash area (so you don't hit so many structures).
This way I can bomb the marine base and live for a long time (if I'm carefull). Onos attack is perhaps good but he will sooner or later die (respawn, gestate, upgrade, move to base - a lot of time).
Fade bombing - it is a constant pressure (and this is important, even if it is slower) !!!!!!!!
When bombing, try to throw those bile bombs near the turret factory (so you are killing turret factory and some nearby turrets). This tactic is very useful when making the final attacks on marine base (first destroy all outposts they may have).
USE BLINK. USE SLASH.
the moment you see the ha, blink beside him. that will disorient him for a moment, and saves you getting shot at while running in. start slashing away and circle-strafing around him. everytime you connect, his aim gets thrown off. if his bullets start landing, switch directions. Its incredibly simple. The key is to stick right beside him, as its much harder for him to aim. The farther you are, the easier it is for him to keep a constant stream of lead heading at you.
Spores don't work on turrets you know.
the moment you see the ha, blink beside him. that will disorient him for a moment, and saves you getting shot at while running in. start slashing away and circle-strafing around him. everytime you connect, his aim gets thrown off. if his bullets start landing, switch directions. Its incredibly simple. The key is to stick right beside him, as its much harder for him to aim. The farther you are, the easier it is for him to keep a constant stream of lead heading at you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps I should send you some of the HA marines that frequent the servers I play on. They have absolutely no trouble whipping their mouse around and hitting you for the 2-3 seconds it take to kill a fade. Blink, cloak, or whatever you use to jump them with only gives you a swipe or two head start. Sure, occasionally you get lucky and strafe confuses them long enough to get a kill, but from all of the encounters I have witnessed, it is usually the fade that goes down. And often pretty quickly.
If you can correct my words, then you understand what I mean. So, what bothers you? It's not that you don't get my words.
So true...
People expect to be godlike when they go onos or HA.. rushing a base on their own and such, dying, and then whining about how unbalanced the game is.
Idiotic.
I would preffer something like the personal teleporter in UT, would still allow for sneak attacks (bait them one way, then port behind them) but it would work 100% of the time.
Marine: heavy armor (100 health, 200 armor)
Fade: acid rocket
It took my 9 shots to kill him. I have repeated it for three times and always the same. 9 shots.
I was watching two monitors (one was runnig the marine and the other was running Fade).
I'm runnig the game at LAN right now, so if you have any suggetions what should be tested just write it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
how much damage does welders do to unarmored Khaaran's??? and by that I mean 1 welding minimum possible damage <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yes, you are right. My point was not to say who is better and who is weaker. I only wanted to show interesting statistics. There is too much variables to make and objective test. The biggest unknown variable is the player who is actually playing. If he is too lame, nothing will help him. And people who can really use all special features can overcome even some HA marines with HMG (or Fades with defense chambers support).
The real value from my tests is: How powerful each weapons are against enemy. It is only on the player how he will use them.
Some tactics you CAN learn from those tests, like don't try to overcome marine in HA and HMG in medium range fight (Fade will die sooner) and so on.
I think the idea is that the turret just has a bigger gun. I mean, think about a Real life tank with a machine gun turret on it. That would typically be more powerful than a machine gun that a soldier is walking around with. Or think about WWII with the large mounted machine guns vs there standard arms. The turrets were stronger there too.
First of all this is not true. An hmg (if the user can actually hit) can take out a fade (even with carapace) very fast. But you are of course right, a defense chamber is very nice to have around for an alien. Same as (siege)turrets for marines. Problem is they dont build themselves. So if you want to rambo some aliens who actually do some teamwork you might have a problem. Same (and even more so) goes for an alien trying to rambo marines who do teamwork (turrets, med packs, welders just to name a few of them).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And to continue, while a HA/HMG marine can get health and ammo from his commander, he has a long reload time, which gives the fade a few more swipes or rockets.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually not. Fades use up energy with their attack and even with adrenaline fades have to "reload" much earlier than marines. Anyway, before a hmg marine has to reload he put out bullets worth 3450 points of damage. If that is still not enough he maybe should start aiming at the fade.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, no armor = instant kill with two swipes or almost 3 rockets. So, you're wrong. Blah. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, another one of those fair comparisons i read lots of. So you complain that an alien who spent between 44 and 50 rp for his spawn has advantages over a marine who spent 0? Why dont you compare skulks with hmg/ha marines?