PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
What I hate about sensory's is that when a hive dies and you have a sensory and one of the other two chambers the game *always* picks sensory, it should be random or whatever chamber was actually built for that hive.
HellbillyA whole title out of pity...Join Date: 2002-11-02Member: 3931Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
A Fade with Adrenaline+Carapace is an almost unstoppable killing machine. The very moment we get the 2nd hive, i always ask for movement chambers so i can get adrenaline and usually i go in a pair with another Fade to take down some marine outposts in early game. It´s really important to give them a hard time early game and cut down on their resources. With an Adrenaline Fade who can heal fast, you an keep them off for hours.......
<!--QuoteBegin--SiLeNcEr-7+Nov 14 2002, 12:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SiLeNcEr-7 @ Nov 14 2002, 12:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What I hate about sensory's is that when a hive dies and you have a sensory and one of the other two chambers the game *always* picks sensory, it should be random or whatever chamber was actually built for that hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It DOES pick whatever was built for the hive... or it SHOULD. That was the intent.
Personally, I usually go for the Def -> Mov -> Sen. However, I'm starting to prefer <b>Mov -> Def -> Sen</b>.
<b>Skulks In the Early Game</b> In the early game, skulks are mainly used to slow down and harass marines, so it really doesn't matter if they die or not. And in fact, if they <i>are</i> dying, their potential resources are going to the gorges while the skulks are respawning, which will help build up faster. And if you are constantly keeping the marines occupied (even just to stop and kill you), you are buying your gorges time to build up. You are also giving yourself plenty of parasite opportunities, which will make all skulks more effective.
Additionally, skulks are most threatening in the early game before marines start getting upgrades. And while my skulks love their carapace, I have found that Movement chambers often add more flexibility and power to skulks early on.
<b>Silence</b> You can use Silence to stalk marines as they are running around trying to secure nodes. You don't even make splash sounds in water. You will be amazed at how dependent marines become on the "click, click" sound that skulks make. It's almost an advantage for skulks that they are so loud when walking, because it makes Silence much more effective. It's almost like an on-the-move cloak. Also, those Lerk lovers often go Lerk even at 1 hive. And while Lerks really do need Carapace (or regen for some), Silence can be so deadly if used from a vent. Often as a marine I have been attacked by a silenced Lerk, and not been able to find him until it was too late. Or I was unable to even realize what was happening in time!
<b>Celerity</b> Celerity can really help in two ways. First, it allows the already speedy skulks to travel the map and vents much quicker, which means you can react to things faster and put even more pressure on marines. Ever attacked the marines while they were building up, detroyed their not-yet-functional TF and RTs, chomped two marines, but got splattered by that one marine coming from base? Well now you (and your speedy friends) can get their before that lone marine rebuilds everything!
The second use of Celerity is that it makes you much more deadly in combat. If you race in from behind biting, turn sharply, up the wall, and drop down on the marines from the ceiling (for example), you can often take whole squads down because you are so fast. And while you will not have carapace to absorb much damage, you often will come out at full health, even against a whole squad spraying and praying, simply because you are so very fast.
<b>Drawbacks</b> Now, the drawbacks of having Movement before Defense is that you lose healing, lose carapace, and your OTs are not very effective. However, most of the true defense building doesn't come until post-hive2 anyway, and once your second hive is up it's simple to reinforce everthing with DCs now that you have the second hive up. As for not healing, well your gorges can choose adrenaline, which will serve the same purpose for the skulks that def chambers would have been, assuming you would even have built them this early in the game. As for carapace, while I love it, I think Celerity or Silence can easily make up for it's loss, particularly this early on when the marines haven't upgraded their weapons. And you still get the lovely Mov+Def combo in the mid game that seems so necessary.
<b>Other uses</b> One additional idea I have for movement chambers is for the gorges to place them at resourse towers once they have some spare RPs. This way, if the marines ever attack your hive, or you need to protect someone or some structure close to your hive, you can run to any RT outpost and pop back quickly. This gives skulks even more of an early-game map advantage. Thus, don't just use one movement at each hive (as so many tend to do), use them in many areas to allow fast travel, even early on. Opinions?
<b>Sensory Chambers</b> One quick note about Sensory: While I love cloaking, I just don't find it very useful. In fact, it's most useful in the early game when the marines have few upgrades, and a few swipes/bites will end it. However, once marines get armor upgrades, and especially when they get heavy armor, cloaking and ambushing just isn't very effective when they can just whip around and kill you in less than 2-3 seconds with a HMG. Even if you are a fade. In fact, these days I mostly just use Scent of Fear. And if you do choose sensory first (or second), you really have made it much more difficult to claim the third hive, because you need attack power, not stealth power.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> I always make shure my team goes Def move sen, mainly because in early game, I'm creating offensive towers with defensive towers behind them, then once we have the second hive, I build a movement tower there to zip back and forth building and capturing land , really the sensory tower has had little to no use for me, ok except for Cloaking, whooptie doo, only time I have ever used cloaking was while building as a gorge, if you cant hide as a skulk while cloaked, what are you doing in a tiny **obscenity** room? hide on top of pipes and listen for the mofos to tromp and clank by, ive noticed MANY marines constantly Jump Jump Jump around the place while walking to their destination, for no reason! so that just makes the job that much easier for the skulks(lets not forget , many people forget to look up, I know ive bagged a few buggers hiding on walls and pipes waiting for me to get closer).
HellbillyA whole title out of pity...Join Date: 2002-11-02Member: 3931Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
Havok, you make some good and valid points about Movement chambers first. I personally have always gone for DC first, then MC. Maybe it´s time to try another startegy........
<!--QuoteBegin--Tempest+Nov 13 2002, 10:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tempest @ Nov 13 2002, 10:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I really hate it when sensory is built first. Generally, if I end up with a team that builds sensory first I will just leave or change sides. Cloaking is nice, it's very nice, however, it's not what you're supposed to be doing. Anyone defending cloaking saying it's a great skill has to think about what they use it for? To deathmatch? To collect massive kills camping marine base or something? That's not the point of the game you know.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <b>Actually</b> The type of alien early game that i find the most functional is the containment type game, where you prevent the marine team from not taking any nodes, not just harassing them. This is where you have 2 or 3 gorges stay back and bulldoze the entire map and have the entire rest of the team preventing the marine team from leaving their base. This strategy is <b>Devastasting</b> if pulled off. This isn't camping, this is a valid strat the requires your entire teams support. Building sensory chambers facilitates this quite nicely. But if you don't use it i guess you'll never see it work right.
If I'm running as a skulk while waiting for the 2nd hive, either move or def would work for me. However, for the gorge, that def chamber is really critical, as he tries to deal with marines.
Properly done, the skulks should be keeping the marines too busy to push in and find the gorges, but that's only true in theory. Too many times, as a gorge, I've had to deal with marines without support, before the 2nd hive starts. At those times, without defense chambers, odds are good that the marines would kill me, take out the off chamber, take out the resource tower, take over the hive. Spit and healing spray only go so far, the healing off the def chamber is what keeps me alive.
Movement chamber as the first chamber doesn't offer much for the gorge, prior to the 2nd hive. Sensory adds less, as you have to get 3 sensory chambers up before cloak becomes worthwhile for a gorge, and then only when he's standing still building chambers, or waiting for resources, or waiting for skulks to come save him (ha, right).
I honestly feel that the benefits of the def chamber as the first chamber really outways the benefits of the other two chambers.
*
Movement vs Sensory as the second chamber. Cloaking is nice when _hunting marines, getting frags. Its useful if you are defending the hive from a commited assault, I've been in fights where it was fades with cloak vs heavy armor/hmgs, when the marines were _Really insistant on breaking into the 2nd hive. But, while the cloak was useful in _defending that hive, its of limited use in _assaulting the third hive (or any hive that the marines have taken over and had time to litter with turrets.)
Cloak doesn't help kill turrets. Umbra + fade kills turrets. Or a suicidal skulk on celerity (often a role I fill) running in _past the turrets, finding a spot where he can chew on the TF while using it to block as much turret fire as he can.
Two fades, with adren, can pound down a heavy armor HMG marine using acid rockets, and probably survive.
Two fades uncloaking and clawing that same marine _may take him out, but will likely die.
*shrug* my two cents, based on too much time playing NS. I have, and will continue to leave the server when the first chamber made is sensory. I'll **obscenity** and fight if the second chamber is sensory.
For instance, in one game, i had lvl 3 cloak early in the game. I took out four or five resource towers the marines had. I would hang around the node cloaked waiting for the marines to come. I let them build but i stop them before their turret factory is online, then i strike. I nail the marines and then their stuctures. They wasted a lot of resources.
It all depends on what is going on. If your first hive is far off and secure, you can use cloak to great advantage. If the marines are assaulting then you need defense first. If they have a hive secured get movement second so you can assault.
Every game is usually different. Don't dismiss one combination of chambers right away. Depending on what is happening it could be very useful.
I go with the stream, Def first. How else are you going to build those walls of lame? Main reason I dislike sensory is "The enemy aproaches". Way too often other gorges find it a good idea to put sensories near marine outposts, and also I get a bug where there is marine presence near somewhere that there REALLY is nothing, sometimes under the floor and stuff. Hope I make <b>sense</b><!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I always set up def first, then movement and then sensory, i´ve seen some gorges building movement chambers near marine bases to allow aliens retreat faster if a hive gets attacked....
EVERYONE BUILDS THE SAME, or people get **obscenity** of....
its always def>mov>sens
i like when the ailens use different tactics all the time...
as a skulk i love sensory and movement chambers early on, preferably movement since they help alot when you use lerk and fade
so use some variety you dont ahve to do the same all the time, and changin team or server jsut cause the team built sens first or second is SO LAME, guess what makes the aliens loose, QUITTERS, last game i played i was marine with an awsome commander, we got the order to attack a hive, so me and 2 other guys with 1 gren and 1 hmg and one wielder/lmg guy moved out and got the hive quite fast since no aliens was defending (stupid aliens....) but after we got that hive (the aliens had all 3 before) 4 alien players jsut left leaving the game at 7vs 2.... wooot fun isnt it??
so if all the players will just stay on the team the build order isnt that important!, sure Def chambers really help as the second or first choice but its not a MUST, but more importantly is that the team works together and dont quit
Xen.Oz, while cloak might be usefull to hold marines at bay, it costs too much. Early in the game you need few gorges, and those need to be either getting resource nodes, or saving for a hive. I dont see how you can justify spending that money on 3 sensory chambers that early. And if it takes too long, then the marines have expanded already anyway, and cloaked ambush becomes less usefull. On top of that, if you get hit, you wont be able to get the health back.
Against a good commander it just doesnt work. If you sit outside marine base cloaked to ambush them, the comm will scanner sweep you and you lose. If you take out a resource node and new marines come to build, if they're good players they will keep on player on defense (at least) while the others build. If they still get killed that way, then you can be sure that a good comm will scanner sweep the place next time.... So there, a good comm can render cloak useless in those situations.
IMO, cloak has it's uses, it has saved me too, but I dont think it's worth getting before movement, or certainly not before defense.
Most commander don't build the observatory as fast as they should, and 3 sensory chambers are much cheaper than 3 defs, if your gorges are workin hard you should have a 2nd hive up by the time the comm gets an observatory up, im not saying its a perfect strategy, but defintiley a valid option, im merely providing a counter point to the def>move>sens.
I dont think many ppl actualy know there is a purpose to each chamber apart from upgrades. Well apart from defence Chambers, every one knows what they do.
Movement are useful for a quick escape if your building and you place a movment early on, if you get attacked you can just teleport to furthest hive, Building one at each hive doesnt really work. you allways end up flicking between only 2 as in all if not most maps there is a center hive and a left and rigth one which are close to marines.
The Sensory chamber in its self is good but no one ever places em in good locations its nearly allways at ya hive.
Every server i have played on there seems to have gathered a pattern, its allways defense first sensory second and movment third (some times get movment second).
If you think that making movment second is more of an offensive thing so you can win with only 2 hives or what ever, well thats not the case if they have one of your hives WELL protected its hard to take back unless you have a good fade that can unleash tons of acidrockets.
I find it easy to find aliens that ahve cloaked near by as you allways here them shift into cloak and then yuo just shoot around in areas you think they will be until you see a green splat, for some reason alot of aliens just sit there and let ya kill ya <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Tell me how are you going to take back the heavily fortifed 3rd hive with sensory upgrades? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Def > Sensor > Move
is fine as long as the 3rd hive is not sieged by marines . . .
The main reason noone cares for sensory chambers is that besides cloak, most of the other abilities are useless except in a few rare circumstances. Marines can most of the time be seen in dark so advanced hive sight is pretty useless, and scent of fear i only use occasionally when im trying to find last marine at end of game. The fact it gives off parasite is kinda nice but the upgrades from movement and defense are overall much better and the buildings other functions (regeneration when near and teleporting to hives) are better than the sensory also.
I don't know about you guys, but I find cloaking to be incredibly useful. Cloaking combined with regeneration can make a skulk a permanent thorn is a resource gathering operation. You can fly by, take a few snaps at things, chomp down on some marine heads, then <i>climb onto the ceiling</i> (or similar hiding spot) wait for a few seconds, then jump out again. You've lost nothing, and if you're good, you can usually dance around the turrets and take them out.
Now don't get me wrong, def/mov is a powerful combination, but def/sens makes the base body type much stronger.
It can also be useful for getting that third hive. You can sneak up to the hive via a vent, and wait until the marines have left, or they are building, and leap into their midst, chomping like a madman. If you maintain decent communication with the rest of your team, have them attack a resource node at this point, and the commander will be pulling his hair out trying to defend both.
I really find cloaking/regen useful because it means I can hide anywhere, sometimes in the middle of the hallway, and heal.
Also, who says that killing marines isn't a valuable thing to spend time doing? Most likely, if you see a marine, he's heading somewhere on his commanders orders. Whether it's to go grab a node, assault the hive, or defend a position -- if you catch him before he gets there, his objective will not be fulfilled. This can buy valuable time for your team to grab that node, defend the hive, or assault a position. Less marines means less bullets heading your way.
Don't get me wrong, DM style play leads to disaster. <b>It is absolutely necessary to maintain good communication with your team.</b> Without it, all your kills amount to nothing.
Call me strange, but for me, the skulk has always been more effective than the fade. For one, it's free, and almost nothing to upgrade, giving your team more valuable resources, and it's fast as hell -- with a potential for quite a bit of damage. (I prefer the lerk for the same reason -- mobility. Also, when they can cloak and heal, they can easily snipe those turrets away.)
Movement -> Sensory -> Defence. Yes, this combo actually appeared in a game I played. Good thing the 2nd and 3rd hive were coming online about 1 min of each other.
But my personal favorite upgrades is:
Sensory -> Defence -> Movement.
But these seem to be the public's favorite:
Defence -> Sensory -> Movement. and Defence -> Movement -> Sensory.
Xen. 0z, if the marines dont have a observatory untill the second hive is up, then the commander is *really* bad. IMO Observatory is one of the first buildings that should be built, and motion trackers is one the the first upgrades that should be done. A skulk all the sudden becomes 100 times less dangerous if you see him coming from the vent/around the corner/whatever.
Ok, most servers are plagued with bad commanders, but that wont stay, and then I think sensory will be inferior to defense chamber or movement chamber.
Comments
It DOES pick whatever was built for the hive... or it SHOULD. That was the intent.
<b>Skulks In the Early Game</b>
In the early game, skulks are mainly used to slow down and harass marines, so it really doesn't matter if they die or not. And in fact, if they <i>are</i> dying, their potential resources are going to the gorges while the skulks are respawning, which will help build up faster. And if you are constantly keeping the marines occupied (even just to stop and kill you), you are buying your gorges time to build up. You are also giving yourself plenty of parasite opportunities, which will make all skulks more effective.
Additionally, skulks are most threatening in the early game before marines start getting upgrades. And while my skulks love their carapace, I have found that Movement chambers often add more flexibility and power to skulks early on.
<b>Silence</b>
You can use Silence to stalk marines as they are running around trying to secure nodes. You don't even make splash sounds in water. You will be amazed at how dependent marines become on the "click, click" sound that skulks make. It's almost an advantage for skulks that they are so loud when walking, because it makes Silence much more effective. It's almost like an on-the-move cloak. Also, those Lerk lovers often go Lerk even at 1 hive. And while Lerks really do need Carapace (or regen for some), Silence can be so deadly if used from a vent. Often as a marine I have been attacked by a silenced Lerk, and not been able to find him until it was too late. Or I was unable to even realize what was happening in time!
<b>Celerity</b>
Celerity can really help in two ways. First, it allows the already speedy skulks to travel the map and vents much quicker, which means you can react to things faster and put even more pressure on marines. Ever attacked the marines while they were building up, detroyed their not-yet-functional TF and RTs, chomped two marines, but got splattered by that one marine coming from base? Well now you (and your speedy friends) can get their before that lone marine rebuilds everything!
The second use of Celerity is that it makes you much more deadly in combat. If you race in from behind biting, turn sharply, up the wall, and drop down on the marines from the ceiling (for example), you can often take whole squads down because you are so fast. And while you will not have carapace to absorb much damage, you often will come out at full health, even against a whole squad spraying and praying, simply because you are so very fast.
<b>Drawbacks</b>
Now, the drawbacks of having Movement before Defense is that you lose healing, lose carapace, and your OTs are not very effective. However, most of the true defense building doesn't come until post-hive2 anyway, and once your second hive is up it's simple to reinforce everthing with DCs now that you have the second hive up. As for not healing, well your gorges can choose adrenaline, which will serve the same purpose for the skulks that def chambers would have been, assuming you would even have built them this early in the game. As for carapace, while I love it, I think Celerity or Silence can easily make up for it's loss, particularly this early on when the marines haven't upgraded their weapons. And you still get the lovely Mov+Def combo in the mid game that seems so necessary.
<b>Other uses</b>
One additional idea I have for movement chambers is for the gorges to place them at resourse towers once they have some spare RPs. This way, if the marines ever attack your hive, or you need to protect someone or some structure close to your hive, you can run to any RT outpost and pop back quickly. This gives skulks even more of an early-game map advantage. Thus, don't just use one movement at each hive (as so many tend to do), use them in many areas to allow fast travel, even early on. Opinions?
<b>Sensory Chambers</b>
One quick note about Sensory: While I love cloaking, I just don't find it very useful. In fact, it's most useful in the early game when the marines have few upgrades, and a few swipes/bites will end it. However, once marines get armor upgrades, and especially when they get heavy armor, cloaking and ambushing just isn't very effective when they can just whip around and kill you in less than 2-3 seconds with a HMG. Even if you are a fade. In fact, these days I mostly just use Scent of Fear. And if you do choose sensory first (or second), you really have made it much more difficult to claim the third hive, because you need attack power, not stealth power.
I always make shure my team goes Def move sen,
mainly because in early game, I'm creating offensive towers with defensive towers behind them, then once we have the second hive, I build a movement tower there to zip back and forth building and capturing land , really the sensory tower has had little to no use for me, ok except for Cloaking, whooptie doo, only time I have ever used cloaking was while building as a gorge,
if you cant hide as a skulk while cloaked, what are you doing in a tiny **obscenity** room? hide on top of pipes and listen for the mofos to tromp and clank by, ive noticed MANY marines constantly Jump Jump Jump around the place while walking to their destination, for no reason! so that just makes the job that much easier for the skulks(lets not forget , many people forget to look up, I know ive bagged a few buggers hiding on walls and pipes waiting for me to get closer).
if you go kamikaze, then Mvt will be nice.
if you prefer to wait and ambush, or just to bug them, then Def with Regen is the definite choice.
for me, I really love regen because it gives me another opportunity to kill the marines without dying or going back to the hive.
For me, I'm always upgrading as Regen, Andren and Cloak
it's the best 3 upgrades of the 9, IMO.
<b>Actually</b> The type of alien early game that i find the most functional is the containment type game, where you prevent the marine team from not taking any nodes, not just harassing them. This is where you have 2 or 3 gorges stay back and bulldoze the entire map and have the entire rest of the team preventing the marine team from leaving their base. This strategy is <b>Devastasting</b> if pulled off. This isn't camping, this is a valid strat the requires your entire teams support. Building sensory chambers facilitates this quite nicely. But if you don't use it i guess you'll never see it work right.
Properly done, the skulks should be keeping the marines too busy to push in and find the gorges, but that's only true in theory. Too many times, as a gorge, I've had to deal with marines without support, before the 2nd hive starts. At those times, without defense chambers, odds are good that the marines would kill me, take out the off chamber, take out the resource tower, take over the hive. Spit and healing spray only go so far, the healing off the def chamber is what keeps me alive.
Movement chamber as the first chamber doesn't offer much for the gorge, prior to the 2nd hive. Sensory adds less, as you have to get 3 sensory chambers up before cloak becomes worthwhile for a gorge, and then only when he's standing still building chambers, or waiting for resources, or waiting for skulks to come save him (ha, right).
I honestly feel that the benefits of the def chamber as the first chamber really outways the benefits of the other two chambers.
*
Movement vs Sensory as the second chamber. Cloaking is nice when _hunting marines, getting frags. Its useful if you are defending the hive from a commited assault, I've been in fights where it was fades with cloak vs heavy armor/hmgs, when the marines were _Really insistant on breaking into the 2nd hive. But, while the cloak was useful in _defending that hive, its of limited use in _assaulting the third hive (or any hive that the marines have taken over and had time to litter with turrets.)
Cloak doesn't help kill turrets. Umbra + fade kills turrets. Or a suicidal skulk on celerity (often a role I fill) running in _past the turrets, finding a spot where he can chew on the TF while using it to block as much turret fire as he can.
Two fades, with adren, can pound down a heavy armor HMG marine using acid rockets, and probably survive.
Two fades uncloaking and clawing that same marine _may take him out, but will likely die.
*shrug* my two cents, based on too much time playing NS. I have, and will continue to leave the server when the first chamber made is sensory. I'll **obscenity** and fight if the second chamber is sensory.
Def/move/sensory, the other choices are inferior.
For instance, in one game, i had lvl 3 cloak early in the game. I took out four or five resource towers the marines had. I would hang around the node cloaked waiting for the marines to come. I let them build but i stop them before their turret factory is online, then i strike. I nail the marines and then their stuctures. They wasted a lot of resources.
It all depends on what is going on. If your first hive is far off and secure, you can use cloak to great advantage. If the marines are assaulting then you need defense first. If they have a hive secured get movement second so you can assault.
Every game is usually different. Don't dismiss one combination of chambers right away. Depending on what is happening it could be very useful.
Main reason I dislike sensory is "The enemy aproaches". Way too often other gorges find it a good idea to put sensories near marine outposts, and also I get a bug where there is marine presence near somewhere that there REALLY is nothing, sometimes under the floor and stuff.
Hope I make <b>sense</b><!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Only if 3rd Hive is not sieged by marines.
Def > Movement
If Marines are skilled players and have taken a hive.
EVERYONE BUILDS THE SAME, or people get **obscenity** of....
its always def>mov>sens
i like when the ailens use different tactics all the time...
as a skulk i love sensory and movement chambers early on, preferably movement since they help alot when you use lerk and fade
so use some variety you dont ahve to do the same all the time, and changin team or server jsut cause the team built sens first or second is SO LAME, guess what makes the aliens loose, QUITTERS, last game i played i was marine with an awsome commander, we got the order to attack a hive, so me and 2 other guys with 1 gren and 1 hmg and one wielder/lmg guy moved out and got the hive quite fast since no aliens was defending (stupid aliens....) but after we got that hive (the aliens had all 3 before) 4 alien players jsut left leaving the game at 7vs 2.... wooot fun isnt it??
so if all the players will just stay on the team the build order isnt that important!, sure Def chambers really help as the second or first choice but its not a MUST, but more importantly is that the team works together and dont quit
Against a good commander it just doesnt work. If you sit outside marine base cloaked to ambush them, the comm will scanner sweep you and you lose. If you take out a resource node and new marines come to build, if they're good players they will keep on player on defense (at least) while the others build. If they still get killed that way, then you can be sure that a good comm will scanner sweep the place next time.... So there, a good comm can render cloak useless in those situations.
IMO, cloak has it's uses, it has saved me too, but I dont think it's worth getting before movement, or certainly not before defense.
Movement are useful for a quick escape if your building and you place a movment early on, if you get attacked you can just teleport to furthest hive, Building one at each hive doesnt really work. you allways end up flicking between only 2 as in all if not most maps there is a center hive and a left and rigth one which are close to marines.
The Sensory chamber in its self is good but no one ever places em in good locations its nearly allways at ya hive.
Every server i have played on there seems to have gathered a pattern, its allways defense first sensory second and movment third (some times get movment second).
If you think that making movment second is more of an offensive thing so you can win with only 2 hives or what ever, well thats not the case if they have one of your hives WELL protected its hard to take back unless you have a good fade that can unleash tons of acidrockets.
I find it easy to find aliens that ahve cloaked near by as you allways here them shift into cloak and then yuo just shoot around in areas you think they will be until you see a green splat, for some reason alot of aliens just sit there and let ya kill ya <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Def > Sensor
Tell me how are you going to take back the heavily fortifed 3rd hive with sensory upgrades? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Def > Sensor > Move
is fine as long as the 3rd hive is not sieged by marines . . .
Now don't get me wrong, def/mov is a powerful combination, but def/sens makes the base body type much stronger.
It can also be useful for getting that third hive. You can sneak up to the hive via a vent, and wait until the marines have left, or they are building, and leap into their midst, chomping like a madman. If you maintain decent communication with the rest of your team, have them attack a resource node at this point, and the commander will be pulling his hair out trying to defend both.
I really find cloaking/regen useful because it means I can hide anywhere, sometimes in the middle of the hallway, and heal.
Also, who says that killing marines isn't a valuable thing to spend time doing? Most likely, if you see a marine, he's heading somewhere on his commanders orders. Whether it's to go grab a node, assault the hive, or defend a position -- if you catch him before he gets there, his objective will not be fulfilled. This can buy valuable time for your team to grab that node, defend the hive, or assault a position. Less marines means less bullets heading your way.
Don't get me wrong, DM style play leads to disaster. <b>It is absolutely necessary to maintain good communication with your team.</b> Without it, all your kills amount to nothing.
Call me strange, but for me, the skulk has always been more effective than the fade. For one, it's free, and almost nothing to upgrade, giving your team more valuable resources, and it's fast as hell -- with a potential for quite a bit of damage. (I prefer the lerk for the same reason -- mobility. Also, when they can cloak and heal, they can easily snipe those turrets away.)
Well... that's my $.02
Pfhreak
Movement -> Sensory -> Defence.
Yes, this combo actually appeared in a game I played. Good thing the 2nd and 3rd hive were coming online about 1 min of each other.
But my personal favorite upgrades is:
Sensory -> Defence -> Movement.
But these seem to be the public's favorite:
Defence -> Sensory -> Movement.
and
Defence -> Movement -> Sensory.
Ok, most servers are plagued with bad commanders, but that wont stay, and then I think sensory will be inferior to defense chamber or movement chamber.