Could use some critisism

badmofo · March 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">Loading bay done (or is it?)</div>PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING:

ok i know this room is huge...but it is VERY near the marine start...and i purposely am making the rooms near the marines bigger (so they have an advantage). I know it looks like everything lately is big but that's because i've been focusing on the marine end of the map lately.

anyways...this is the loading bay - it's taken from bob's POV (i love playing as him lately) - behind me is the outdoor landingpad and the transport ship cliff is modeling. My main concern about this room is lighting. I feel it's a little bland by comparison to the rest of my map. What do you guys think? Should i take out the floor lights? make them more intense? Add spot lights? Take down the ambient blue (from the wall lights) and then use spot lights?

and if you think it's fine the way it is...just say that...i've just been looking at it too long and need another perspective.

<img src="http://filebox.vt.edu/users/malavi/NS_pix/newpix/sync0700002.jpg" border="0">

PS - i also had updated outdoor area to show, but with all the recent revolting against the outdoors...i got scared of the tar and feather and thought it best to keep it to myself <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> - heheheheh.

Mart · March 2002

The only thing I can think of to say (instead of saying I love those stairs, short and sweet) is to maybe have 1 or two lights along the walls instead of entire rows, leading to the ambience of the entire room being darked and providing you with some nice spotlight opportunities.

Blahman · March 2002

Hrrmm ... 95% of the brush detail in that shot comes from the stairs. bad idea, IMHO. The lighting is also pretty bland, and some of the texturing on the walls and ceiling doesn't make much sense realistically. Don't take this as a slam, because it is not, it is just constructive criticism.

badmofo · March 2002

ok - i can see making the lights along walls less to take down the ambient. As for 95% of brush detail coming from stairs being bad....are you trying to say i should add more detail into the architecture of the room? Hmm....I'll think about it.

Anyways - i thought this would also help give you an idea of what the room looks like...the lighting obviously won't show up well...but at least it gives you some idea of how the room is shaped so you can judge the screenshot better.

(you need divx to play it...its about 2 megs)
<a href="http://filebox.vt.edu/users/malavi/NS_pix/newpix/load.avi" target="_blank">Loading Bay Movie</a>

Greedo · March 2002

I think you maybe have just too many textures in here. That's just my opinion, though.

For lighting, I could definitely see some different lighting levels working here. Maybe lower the intensity on the middle layer (that bright one above the metwall tex) and stick some lights up top near the ceiling.

Edit: saw the movie. You could definitely add some extraneous wall and cieling detail, as long as it doesn't obscure the movement of the level one. I can't really feel too excited about this room right now, though I think the concept is good.

Moleculor · March 2002

Oh. Wow. That entry elevator just SCREAMS shared experience. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> Just a quick question... those exits from the bay out to the outside... how are you blocking those?

As for detail and lighting... For a place that's right next to the Marine start, I'd say that's pretty good. Maybe spread the lights out, instead of having one long bar on two sides, have lights all the way around or something? And a crate hanging from the ceiling that Bob can sit on. [edit](Or is there one there already?)[/edit] Or something.

humbaba · March 2002

yeah, I could see a second set of crate lifting bars going perpendiculer to the other one/ That crate could hang lower and maybe act as a stair step to the other box. Provided you have r_speed room for it.

realityisdead · March 2002

I would have to agree with Greedo here. The lighting is really what turns me off about this area. I realise that it is near the MS, but I still think you can get some contrast and variation in while still keeping it bright. That yellow strip near the floor doesn't really look very good either. Or is that just an individual light like on the other side? If that's the case, I like it. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

The design of the room looks really nice, and you've got good texture use on the wall, but the ceiling looks a bit off in my opinion.

Nice stairs, BTW. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Looking forward to seeing more of this.

DoctorJuice · March 2002

The base that you're mapping is under alien infestation, so how about giving it a more "alarm/alert" feel? (Flashing reds and blues?)

Muu · March 2002

I like the texturing, I think it looks great - and I know it will look better in game.
my point - The ceiling is way too bright in my opinion and the central floor area is looks realativly hard to defend, I'd put something large near that big hallway or I think the marines will want to get out of here as quickly as possible because they can lay adiquite defences. oh and dim the lights - add some spot on the ceiling to cover central area - like everyone else said.

doctopepa · March 2002

wow youv'e really gone crazy with the textures there. I don't like it cuz the textures doesn't "meet" eachother in the corners. Like the brushes were taken from lot's of spacestations and tossed in a pile. (A very nice pile on the other hand. nice brushwork&#33<img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

allso try to darken a little, if this room isn't supposed to be light for some reason. I hate when people don't see your supersmart artistic idea with the lighting <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
"TO MUCH RED!!!"
Check my map posts if you have the time...

mr_Nebel · March 2002

Doctapepa's right, although i'd also like to put my view across that using 3 texture styles up the wall makes it look very very weird, especially when the second one is something i'd normally consider a floor texture. (i know there is a wall version but i just don't like using it for major wall sections)

HanzGruber · March 2002

perty movie...looks nice but a bit washed out...I'm guessing that's the movie tho <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Infinity · March 2002

hmm... the lightning should be a cool bluish lightning if the area is part shutdown

i cant say more that hasnt already been said

pielemuis · March 2002

I would like this area a lot darker, more like the style ken uses in his map.........
This room lacks detail, with some darker lighting people won't notice that anymore <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Yamazaki · March 2002

I actually think the area is perfectly fine as-is. I might not like all the texture usage (Some of it is a bit too contrasting), but the lighting seemed just fine. The architecture is also good too, since this is a hangar and loading bay, and loading bays tend to be rectangular and simple. A simple bit of retexturing will fix everything.

Infinity · March 2002

but... but... what about bluish light <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

bluish is good !

badmofo · March 2002

wow - thanks for all the posts. Ok from what I can gather the main area's of concern are the strong ambient lighting with no contrast...and the use of too many varying textures.

OK - well how about this? I feel this might be TOO much now. I was thinking of adding just a few blue texture lights along the walls to balance it out. I also changed the texture mid-wall. And made a slight change the to geometry above the catwalk. Give me your honest opinions. mainly i think i need to increase the ambient to balance out the contrast...but tell me what you think?

PS (THIS IS A HORRIBLE LIGHTING COMPILE - so don't pay attention to the large lighting patches)

<img src="http://filebox.vt.edu/users/malavi/NS_pix/newpix/load10001.jpg" border="0">

<img src="http://filebox.vt.edu/users/malavi/NS_pix/newpix/load10005.jpg" border="0">

ChromeAngel · March 2002

I don't like these shots. I'm having some difficulty putting into words why. Too many different textures, they don't seem to work together well. It's like your change texture part way up a wall for not obvious reason. The large strips of lighting need to be broken up bit too. Can we have some navigation/warning signs, trash cans, trash scattered around please? Right now that does not look like a credable location to me.

How's that for criticism?

UnCritical · March 2002

It looks alot better now, but i still think the roof area could do with being darker. 1 for contrast and 2 cos of the bright spotlights shining down, if you looked at something like that anything behind the lights would be very dark.
In the second shot the far corner spotlight seems too far back as its not casting any light down the side of the sticky-out bit like the other one does.
Could you have some sort of light beam effect on them large spotlights? that would make them stand out, at the moment theyre giving off a shed load of light but are only little white spots, try and emphisise them.

Greedo · March 2002

Its better. Some colored highlights would definitely improve the shot, yes.

realityisdead · March 2002

Hey, now this is already looking ten times better. I like it as-is right now. I'm not so sure I would try to create a light beam effect here. Those big pools of light with big shadows really seem to work good here. It even makes that yellow strip at the bottom look very nice.

If people don't like how small those light fixtures are compared to how much light they are giving off, I would resize the actual fixtures rather then adjust the lights. I think it looks really nice.

I can imagine it might look a bit different once this glare gets off my screen though... I'll take another look tonight.

One thing I'm wondering... are those first shots you showed of this map (the landing pods, the elevator shaft, the generator, and the red room) still in the map? I couldn't make em out on your layout.

-Edit- After a second look, I noticed that while the contrast on the walls looks really nice, it appears far too harsh and abrupt on the floor at the top of the stairs... it doesn't look very pleasant changing from pitch black to white wash that abruptly. If this is where you think it is "a little too much", then I would have to agree.

Relic25 · March 2002

I'm a little shocked to read so many complaints about having "too many different textures". I understand that there could be a bit more cohesion or logical appearance of function to the textures, but too say that there are "too many" is really odd. No matter where you are are right now, take a look around you. There are literally thousands of textures around us nearly all the time! This doesn't apply to those of you confined to padded cells, of course. One of the problems with working in HL is that we can't put <i>enough</i> textures in our maps! As long as there is apparent reason (and it doesn't always have to be THAT apparent) for use of textures and it doesn't affect player framerate, I say use as many textures as possible.

ChromeAngel · March 2002

I see your point relic, but the textures around me form a cohesive credable whole. Some texture combinations do not. Some textures have stong light and shadows built into the texture, when they are put next to each other in a way where the light sources/shadows conflict and it looks really bad.

Yamazaki · March 2002

A few comments:

1. Is that a window in that 'bulge' on the second floor? I'm guessing it hasn't been made into a transparent entity yet.

2. The old HL crate textures you have look rather odd next to the detailed NS textures. The main reason why they look so odd is because they're no 'power of 2' sized. If you really like that old texture you can pull them out of the HL wad and resize them in Photoshop, then put them in a custom wad with a new name.

3. Lighting looks perfect as-is. The majority of the room is well lit, with a few dark corners to add ambience.

badmofo · March 2002

ok - this room is finalized. lemme preface by saying i honestly don't see any issues with the texture usage...looks fine to me so im not changing it (although i did change the ceiling to something cliff made...mad props to him)

i was not pleased with the lighting at first go...and i HATED the lighting in the second set of pics...so i decided to space out the harsh spotlights into smaller more tolerable ones...and also added red light into the vents under the catwalk and made a balance of the blue ambient (somewhere between the first and second compile).

Anyways...im sorry if you dont like it - but i feel this room is done. (as far as lighting is concerned)
<img src="http://filebox.vt.edu/users/malavi/NS_pix/newpix/load40000.jpg" border="0">

<img src="http://filebox.vt.edu/users/malavi/NS_pix/newpix/load40001.jpg" border="0">

<img src="http://filebox.vt.edu/users/malavi/NS_pix/newpix/load40002.jpg" border="0">

***ALSO - to answer a few questions that were brought up in this thread.

1 - who said i wasn't gonna allow the marines to go outside...this is the loading bay - that part of the map that has the sync transport ship on it...the part that juts out of the cliff face...i've been mentioning for weeks how the cliff face can be used by bobs and flyers as an alien only shortcut.

2 - yes that is a window in the "bulge" - but i don't have the available r_speeds/plane-limit to make it transparent and add anything behind it...sorry.

mr_Nebel · March 2002

Very nice, especially the yellow floor lights.

Only 1 thing I would improve on would be putting a small trim around the window, or perhaps indent it a couple of units.

MonsieurEvil · March 2002

Ahhhh. This is why I waited to comment until the very end - BadMofo and Cliff come through for me again! Very, very nice improvements. I especially like that last shot - looks like a publicity still from an upcoming Star Wars movie! New lighting works for me, esp. the red grate. Overall, a nice improvement. Well done, you two.

Yamazaki · March 2002

About the window, I'd suggest changing it to a darker glass texture, or better yet making a new window texture that has the frame in it, so that you don't need to waste r_speeds on a brushwork frame. It's the only thing in the pictures which doesn't look right, otherwise that area is definitely looking good <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

pielemuis · March 2002

It's much better then the first pics, I really like it, but change that glasstexture, and those crates with the HL texture don't fit in........

badmofo · March 2002

good stuff - i'm just gonna take that glass part out until i finish the map - if i have not reached any limits (yeah right) - ill put something better back in...as for the crates...i'll go bug cliff to make some better crate textures for me. (but that's gonna be a while - his main priorities are skinning the sync transport and the landing pods)

Could use some critisism

Comments