<!--QuoteBegin-Nao+Mar 18 2005, 02:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nao @ Mar 18 2005, 02:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Step one: Build Observatory or Observatories Step two: Place them on Hotkeys with CTRL+(1, 2, 3, 4, or 5) Step three: Learn to scan. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> did you actually read this thread
Yes, actually. It's reached its end. We've summed up what the SCs are capable of and they are not overpowered if Marines simply use the obvious counters within the Observatory.
EDIT: For Public play, I'll admit they're overpowered (Due to: Lack of Team Ethic, Lack of Communication, Lack of Response Time).
<!--QuoteBegin-Nao+Mar 18 2005, 08:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nao @ Mar 18 2005, 08:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes, actually. It's reached its end. We've summed up what the SCs are capable of and they are not overpowered if Marines simply use the obvious counters within the Observatory.
EDIT: For Public play, I'll admit they're overpowered (Due to: Lack of Team Ethic, Lack of Communication, Lack of Response Time). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you're an idiot.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nao+Mar 18 2005, 08:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nao @ Mar 18 2005, 08:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes, actually. It's reached its end. We've summed up what the SCs are capable of and they are not overpowered if Marines simply use the obvious counters within the Observatory.
EDIT: For Public play, I'll admit they're overpowered (Due to: Lack of Team Ethic, Lack of Communication, Lack of Response Time). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> They are far more overpowered in competative play.
<!--QuoteBegin-KenHidaka+Mar 18 2005, 08:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KenHidaka @ Mar 18 2005, 08:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> btw, Fila, don't be such a big cry baby. If you were developing a game of any kind, would you listen to some random guy who comes on and starts to bad mouth players AND the game with no real back up? Really, that's childish. I somehow doubt the devs will do anything even with this thread, because no one else is making a huge deal of it like you are. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You didn't read the thread and you don't know enouh about the competitive scene if you don't know who Fila is.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nao+Mar 18 2005, 05:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nao @ Mar 18 2005, 05:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Then.. How did it make it past playtesting if it's imbalanced? Oversight from playtesters? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> that's what the whole competitive community wants to know
and the playtesters just reply with that they don't look for imbalances, but bugs in the game
EDIT: So, are you saying that there is no way to Counter SC? Scans just not good enough? Armor 1 insufficient? Is free localised Scent of Fear really that much of an advantage? Parasite serves the same purpose, but for freeeeee.
the "playtesters" for the last beta of 3.0 final were the constellation members. The main problem with this, is that constellation members consist of anyone with 20 dollars, its not biased towards competitive play and thereby balance.
ok for those of you who think that you can just build an extra obs, scan a few extra times, and still be able to get the same upgrades your wrong. The reason people dont get observatories and scan fast at the start of the game is because resources are minimal. You cant get arms lab, armor 1, a few res nodes, observatory all in the beginning. And honestly the rate of observatory scan points is sad, you scan once and then you sit back with your thumb up your **** and your marines out in the field with no more scan energy for like 30 seconds. And as for my posting aggressive slander remarks at the start, i was **** and posted what was on my mind and have spoken to developers about what i said and how "if they can overlook it, there are many great posts in this thread". Dont tell me i have no skill, dont tell me i dont know what im talking about, i was a commander for 1.02-2.0 in some of the best clans and a grunt the rest of the way out and know this game. And the reason i wrote such horrible comments at the start, i knew it would get some notice from the rest of the competitive people in the community and pull 50+ posts from people i know. Im happy i underestimated it too. The truth is, if any of you honestly spend the time to read all of these posts, like me, you will no longer post a response to my initial thread or any comments i made for you will have your head filled with some great thoughts of what the game can be from the rest of the posts. Dont be a *** and post a comment in a 190 replied post about my initial bad comments and think that we give a ****.
<!--QuoteBegin-comrade+Mar 19 2005, 12:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (comrade @ Mar 19 2005, 12:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Nao+Mar 18 2005, 05:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nao @ Mar 18 2005, 05:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Then.. How did it make it past playtesting if it's imbalanced? Oversight from playtesters? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> that's what the whole competitive community wants to know
and the playtesters just reply with that they don't look for imbalances, but bugs in the game <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> there are no where near enough active pts to effectivly balance the game, sorry.
and the consties generally don't know much about ns so are useless when it comes to balancing.
this is why we should imo have allowed a small number of clans to pt for balance :/ but it wasnt allowed.
<i>The sensory chamber itself is not imbalanced</i>
How do I, I mere pubber, deduce this? Because it didn't change that much from B5, and it was roundly scoffed at for being the weakest starting chamber then. You add a localized scent of fear to it and suddenly it's overpowered? Let's be reasonable here folks.
Think back to B5 and what it would have been like if the only change to the game was that the devs added a localized scent of fear to the SC. Would any of you have scoffed at them less? Hell, you'd be complaining about what a useless change that was because as soon as you put a sensory up, any alien can get SoF already.
What's imbalanced is the alien game as a whole.
Aliens got a (needed) boost to the early game with the flashlight and upgrades that are fast and free. They also got a small general boost with the innate regen. However, the game itself was pretty balanced already at that point, so you can't go boosting one side without either nerfing it somewhere else or boosting the other. Except that didn't happen.
Instead, the aliens kept their rocking middle game and their okay end-game. The marines took a minor hit to their midgame with the SG nerf.
Of course this doesn't seem balanced. It isn't. But it's <i>not</i> the sensory chamber that's the cause. It's that aliens got an early game boost that allows them to actually *use* the sensory chamber without guarunteeing death. And hey, when you're an alien, sensory is pretty fun. So of course we're seeing a lot of it.
The problem is that Aliens kept the rocking middle. You make obs cheaper and all you're doing is countering the sensory. Except on the competitive side, they'll just switch (have switched?) to using MCs, and the aliens will <i>still</i> dominate marines.
Will we hear crys of how the MC is overpowered once competitive teams switch to using it almost exclusively? I'm willing to bet we will. And they'll be just as silly as these claims of the SC's being over powered.
kwil your a friggin moron, the sensory chambers added sof to them yes, AND that is a big difference. But the other difference is the fact that skulks can actually move cloaked now. Oh and the fact that skulks can get any trait off of the sensories that they want without costing res. Hmm you forgot about those facts too didnt you. SUYF, you dont have a clue what your talking about. and what your saying isnt adding a single quality point to why the developers should or shouldnt change the chambers.
PLEASE ANYONE THAT REPLIES TO THIS POST, THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO TYPE AND DECIDE IF IT ACTUALLY ADDS ANYTHING TO THE ARGUEMENT. THIS POST IS GONNA BE PUSHED ONTO THE DEVS BECAUSE MANY QUALITY SUGGESTIONS HAVE BEEN MADE. AND NO YOUR STUPID "i dont think your right; you shouldnt talk nub; quit crying" POSTS ARE **** AND YOU NEED TO GO JUMP OFF A CLIFF AND SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE HEAD ON THE WAY DOWN. AND OH ILL SCREW YOUR SISTER IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL OF THAT AHOLE.
<!--QuoteBegin-Fila+Mar 19 2005, 02:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fila @ Mar 19 2005, 02:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> kwil your a friggin moron, the sensory chambers added sof to them yes, AND that is a big difference. But the other difference is the fact that skulks can actually move cloaked now. Oh and the fact that skulks can get any trait off of the sensories that they want without costing res. Hmm you forgot about those facts too didnt you. SUYF, you dont have a clue what your talking about. and what your saying isnt adding a single quality point to why the developers should or shouldnt change the chambers.
PLEASE ANYONE THAT REPLIES TO THIS POST, THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO TYPE AND DECIDE IF IT ACTUALLY ADDS ANYTHING TO THE ARGUEMENT. THIS POST IS GONNA BE PUSHED ONTO THE DEVS BECAUSE MANY QUALITY SUGGESTIONS HAVE BEEN MADE. AND NO YOUR STUPID "i dont think your right; you shouldnt talk nub; quit crying" POSTS ARE **** AND YOU NEED TO GO JUMP OFF A CLIFF AND SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE HEAD ON THE WAY DOWN. AND OH ILL SCREW YOUR SISTER IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL OF THAT AHOLE. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well.. you wanted a devs attention.. I have a feeling you may get it now.
But.. to feed the troll or not feed the troll? Ah what the heck.
1. Take your own advice. 2. Two of the three changes you listed have nothing to do with the sensory chamber. The one that does is the one I pointed out already. 3. Two of the three changes you listed, I already listed. The one that I didn't is inaccurate, as skulks could move while cloaked already. 4. If the chambers are not imbalanced, they shouldn't be changed.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kwil+Mar 19 2005, 01:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil @ Mar 19 2005, 01:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Will we hear crys of how the MC is overpowered once competitive teams switch to using it almost exclusively? I'm willing to bet we will. And they'll be just as silly as these claims of the SC's being over powered.
It's not the chamber. It's the team. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I whole heartedly disagree. Completely. To the extent of a million zillion.
The sensory chamber, with the current "free upgrades" and the "cloaked movement" which also gives free SOF and free CLOAKING is just too much. Public play may be balanced, but the nitty gritty of competitive play just isnt. The rest of the new alien build I actually like, it plays right to me, but sensory is now just TOO much. Perhaps the old sensory would have been just fine WITH the current build with free upgrades, etc, but we just dont know that. The SC wasnt that weak of a chamber to begin with.
MCs are not overpowered, and DCs are still a great first choice.
I agree with kwil on part of his post, where he says that the beginning game is overpowered and the late game was not changed...this is very true, in b5 the flow went where the marines were overpowered the first 2-3 minutes of the game up until the fades, and then whatever res they had fluctuated until they could either take down the second hive or the second hive goes up, if the marines do not have a proto up or researching or do not have siege or a shotty rush about to happen they have a much greater chance of losing after that point in the game, thus aliens were overpowered mid to late game.
Now in final aliens got boosted in the early game so now its about equal, but they are STILL overpowered mid to late game, even more so, now that skulks get TWO upgrades almost always plus leap plus 2 hive fades, once the second hive goes up marines are nearly screwed in final.
In effect this means the mid-to-late game aliens need to be weakened somehow, be it nerfing 2nd hive importance or nerfing the fade. Time should be on the marine's side in an SC first alien situation, but it currently isn't due to these imbalances mainly with the second hive.
That said i still believe the SC got a tad overpowered this last version due to added sof and free upgrades :|
Cheaper obs could go a long way to helping SC imbalance at least in the short term...but the rest will need to be fixed soon anyway...
<!--QuoteBegin-Dr aaagh+Mar 19 2005, 03:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dr aaagh @ Mar 19 2005, 03:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> SC upgrade = best thing since sliced bread for noobs and only a slight advantage for more experienced players. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> its cool to read the thread and have some knowledge on the matter before posting, yup.
Summary of reality: SCs still require a fair bit of teamwork to pull off, and rarely result in pub wins, thus pubbers neather have the authority to comment on the balance of the chamber. However, with clan level teams, players know what they are supposed to do, comunicate with eachother constantly, and generally use teamwork and at that level the chamber potentially becomes REALLY overpowered.
Result of logic: Good teams are not the majority of the players of NS, thus if we are going to try to balance this issue, lets try to think of options that don't screw over pubbers in the process. There are lots of things that can be done to nerf the sensory chamber at the higher level skillset without making it compleatly useless in pub play. For instance, pub coms almost NEVER obs ping, so lets do stuff like beef the ping up a little so it benifits the clanners more without frying the SC on pubs. Increase the skill curve of the commander so REALLY good coms can effectively counter REALLY powerful alien stratigies with ALOT of skill. This way, high skill games are still balanced and low skill games are still balanced. Everyone is happy.
1. The PT's do more in a week than most of the NS community realizes, and gets 0 respect for the work that they do, for free mind you. If you want to say that the chamber is unbalanced fine.
HOWEVER, Fila this is aimed at you.
Do not talk trash about other players/the dev team/PT's/anyone whom is doing you a favor. This does nothing but anger people and cause friction, have an opinion, BUT try to pretend you are a grown up when trying to make a point. The sensory was playtested and balanced for casual play.
2. WHY WAS IT NOT BALANCED FOR 1337 PLAY?
Well Due to problems(drama,personal attacks, and general asshatery) there is no longer a vet program. SOOO the only way to test a build for 6 on 6 clan style play, is to have 12 CAL level players. Sadly that is not the focus of a Playtest, sooooo competitive balance(an issue but not a critical) is overlooked for the good of the general community.
3. WHY NOT HELP THE CLANNERS?
Clanners are represented in the Playtests, in fact the north american PT lead is a clanner in a clan that is in CAL Delta(Invite Division) and a lot of VERY tallented players are on the PT staff, the simple fact is the top players will find a way to make the chamber defensable, people practice, and create ways to defend the mighty sensory chambers. The clanners are always on our minds, however competitive play is NOT job 1, making the game playable is.
The oh so hated and evil clanners nailed the quote when they put it all over their sig's
NOOBIES WHINE - VETERANS ADAPT
So, quit being a noobie and adapt.
Thanks for playing
SM5
PS: By the by remember I am a clanner too so I am not exempt from feeling the sting of the new sensory chamber.
Agreed. There is only so much a small playtest group can do towards balance. Large playtests are simply needed to give players the time to crunch the numbers in all gameplay situations. That is why I wish that the NS team would bite the bullet and not try to make every patch a major change, and maby make a few tweak patches now and then.
Anyways, I still see this last build as forward progress. Even if the game isn't perfect, some ammount of fun has been restored from past builds. I just hope you guys don't use "our playtest team is too small to accurately balance the game" as an excuse to ignore the more scathing issues this last patch uncovered in the next patch.
I agree with Kwil. Basically the khaara early game (and thus also midgame) has been boosted significantly. This enhances the abilities of the SC, as the SC is the one chamber that relies the most on early game dominance.
Now, if one were to change everything back to b5, except for the SC changes, I dont know how the SC would play exactly, but it probably wouldnt be as bad as this.
Notice that clans alien tie regardless of chamber. DC first is a **** to play against if those DCs go up quickly. Cara skulks vs lvl 0 weapons anyone?! Seriously, it is not the SC in itself, it is the amount of boosts the khaara have gotten combined, without some sort of balancing measures taken.
New (and imo good) features have gone in, without any thought of balance.
Look at the source of the imbalance first, make a fix, and if SCs are still overpowered when playing with MCs and DCs work well, then take another look at that chamber.
[Edit] So just take a step back, a deep breath, and stop crusading against the SC. This isnt the time. If we want to be taken seriously, we need to look at the big picture and make reasonable suggestions.
Comments
Step two: Place them on Hotkeys with CTRL+(1, 2, 3, 4, or 5)
Step three: Learn to scan.
Step two: Place them on Hotkeys with CTRL+(1, 2, 3, 4, or 5)
Step three: Learn to scan. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
did you actually read this thread
EDIT: For Public play, I'll admit they're overpowered (Due to: Lack of Team Ethic, Lack of Communication, Lack of Response Time).
EDIT: For Public play, I'll admit they're overpowered (Due to: Lack of Team Ethic, Lack of Communication, Lack of Response Time). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you're an idiot.
EDIT: For Public play, I'll admit they're overpowered (Due to: Lack of Team Ethic, Lack of Communication, Lack of Response Time). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
They are far more overpowered in competative play.
understand how the res game works, THEN post.
You didn't read the thread and you don't know enouh about the competitive scene if you don't know who Fila is.
Oversight from playtesters?
Oversight from playtesters? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's what the whole competitive community wants to know
and the playtesters just reply with that they don't look for imbalances, but bugs in the game
EDIT: So, are you saying that there is no way to Counter SC? Scans just not good enough? Armor 1 insufficient? Is free localised Scent of Fear really that much of an advantage? Parasite serves the same purpose, but for freeeeee.
the "playtesters" for the last beta of 3.0 final were the constellation members. The main problem with this, is that constellation members consist of anyone with 20 dollars, its not biased towards competitive play and thereby balance.
Oversight from playtesters? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's what the whole competitive community wants to know
and the playtesters just reply with that they don't look for imbalances, but bugs in the game <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
there are no where near enough active pts to effectivly balance the game, sorry.
and the consties generally don't know much about ns so are useless when it comes to balancing.
this is why we should imo have allowed a small number of clans to pt for balance :/ but it wasnt allowed.
Let me say that again.
<i>The sensory chamber itself is not imbalanced</i>
How do I, I mere pubber, deduce this? Because it didn't change that much from B5, and it was roundly scoffed at for being the weakest starting chamber then. You add a localized scent of fear to it and suddenly it's overpowered? Let's be reasonable here folks.
Think back to B5 and what it would have been like if the only change to the game was that the devs added a localized scent of fear to the SC. Would any of you have scoffed at them less? Hell, you'd be complaining about what a useless change that was because as soon as you put a sensory up, any alien can get SoF already.
What's imbalanced is the alien game as a whole.
Aliens got a (needed) boost to the early game with the flashlight and upgrades that are fast and free. They also got a small general boost with the innate regen. However, the game itself was pretty balanced already at that point, so you can't go boosting one side without either nerfing it somewhere else or boosting the other. Except that didn't happen.
Instead, the aliens kept their rocking middle game and their okay end-game.
The marines took a minor hit to their midgame with the SG nerf.
Of course this doesn't seem balanced. It isn't.
But it's <i>not</i> the sensory chamber that's the cause. It's that aliens got an early game boost that allows them to actually *use* the sensory chamber without guarunteeing death. And hey, when you're an alien, sensory is pretty fun. So of course we're seeing a lot of it.
The problem is that Aliens kept the rocking middle.
You make obs cheaper and all you're doing is countering the sensory. Except on the competitive side, they'll just switch (have switched?) to using MCs, and the aliens will <i>still</i> dominate marines.
Will we hear crys of how the MC is overpowered once competitive teams switch to using it almost exclusively? I'm willing to bet we will. And they'll be just as silly as these claims of the SC's being over powered.
It's not the chamber.
It's the team.
PLEASE ANYONE THAT REPLIES TO THIS POST, THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO TYPE AND DECIDE IF IT ACTUALLY ADDS ANYTHING TO THE ARGUEMENT. THIS POST IS GONNA BE PUSHED ONTO THE DEVS BECAUSE MANY QUALITY SUGGESTIONS HAVE BEEN MADE. AND NO YOUR STUPID "i dont think your right; you shouldnt talk nub; quit crying" POSTS ARE **** AND YOU NEED TO GO JUMP OFF A CLIFF AND SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE HEAD ON THE WAY DOWN. AND OH ILL SCREW YOUR SISTER IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL OF THAT AHOLE.
PLEASE ANYONE THAT REPLIES TO THIS POST, THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO TYPE AND DECIDE IF IT ACTUALLY ADDS ANYTHING TO THE ARGUEMENT. THIS POST IS GONNA BE PUSHED ONTO THE DEVS BECAUSE MANY QUALITY SUGGESTIONS HAVE BEEN MADE. AND NO YOUR STUPID "i dont think your right; you shouldnt talk nub; quit crying" POSTS ARE **** AND YOU NEED TO GO JUMP OFF A CLIFF AND SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE HEAD ON THE WAY DOWN. AND OH ILL SCREW YOUR SISTER IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL OF THAT AHOLE. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well.. you wanted a devs attention.. I have a feeling you may get it now.
But.. to feed the troll or not feed the troll? Ah what the heck.
1. Take your own advice.
2. Two of the three changes you listed have nothing to do with the sensory chamber. The one that does is the one I pointed out already.
3. Two of the three changes you listed, I already listed. The one that I didn't is inaccurate, as skulks could move while cloaked already.
4. If the chambers are not imbalanced, they shouldn't be changed.
It's not the chamber.
It's the team. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I whole heartedly disagree. Completely. To the extent of a million zillion.
The sensory chamber, with the current "free upgrades" and the "cloaked movement" which also gives free SOF and free CLOAKING is just too much. Public play may be balanced, but the nitty gritty of competitive play just isnt. The rest of the new alien build I actually like, it plays right to me, but sensory is now just TOO much. Perhaps the old sensory would have been just fine WITH the current build with free upgrades, etc, but we just dont know that. The SC wasnt that weak of a chamber to begin with.
MCs are not overpowered, and DCs are still a great first choice.
Now in final aliens got boosted in the early game so now its about equal, but they are STILL overpowered mid to late game, even more so, now that skulks get TWO upgrades almost always plus leap plus 2 hive fades, once the second hive goes up marines are nearly screwed in final.
In effect this means the mid-to-late game aliens need to be weakened somehow, be it nerfing 2nd hive importance or nerfing the fade. Time should be on the marine's side in an SC first alien situation, but it currently isn't due to these imbalances mainly with the second hive.
That said i still believe the SC got a tad overpowered this last version due to added sof and free upgrades :|
Cheaper obs could go a long way to helping SC imbalance at least in the short term...but the rest will need to be fixed soon anyway...
its cool to read the thread and have some knowledge on the matter before posting, yup.
SCs still require a fair bit of teamwork to pull off, and rarely result in pub wins, thus pubbers neather have the authority to comment on the balance of the chamber. However, with clan level teams, players know what they are supposed to do, comunicate with eachother constantly, and generally use teamwork and at that level the chamber potentially becomes REALLY overpowered.
Result of logic:
Good teams are not the majority of the players of NS, thus if we are going to try to balance this issue, lets try to think of options that don't screw over pubbers in the process. There are lots of things that can be done to nerf the sensory chamber at the higher level skillset without making it compleatly useless in pub play. For instance, pub coms almost NEVER obs ping, so lets do stuff like beef the ping up a little so it benifits the clanners more without frying the SC on pubs. Increase the skill curve of the commander so REALLY good coms can effectively counter REALLY powerful alien stratigies with ALOT of skill. This way, high skill games are still balanced and low skill games are still balanced. Everyone is happy.
1. The PT's do more in a week than most of the NS community realizes, and gets 0 respect for the work that they do, for free mind you. If you want to say that the chamber is unbalanced fine.
HOWEVER, Fila this is aimed at you.
Do not talk trash about other players/the dev team/PT's/anyone whom is doing you a favor. This does nothing but anger people and cause friction, have an opinion, BUT try to pretend you are a grown up when trying to make a point. The sensory was playtested and balanced for casual play.
2. WHY WAS IT NOT BALANCED FOR 1337 PLAY?
Well Due to problems(drama,personal attacks, and general asshatery) there is no longer a vet program. SOOO the only way to test a build for 6 on 6 clan style play, is to have 12 CAL level players. Sadly that is not the focus of a Playtest, sooooo competitive balance(an issue but not a critical) is overlooked for the good of the general community.
3. WHY NOT HELP THE CLANNERS?
Clanners are represented in the Playtests, in fact the north american PT lead is a clanner in a clan that is in CAL Delta(Invite Division) and a lot of VERY tallented players are on the PT staff, the simple fact is the top players will find a way to make the chamber defensable, people practice, and create ways to defend the mighty sensory chambers. The clanners are always on our minds, however competitive play is NOT job 1, making the game playable is.
The oh so hated and evil clanners nailed the quote when they put it all over their sig's
NOOBIES WHINE - VETERANS ADAPT
So, quit being a noobie and adapt.
Thanks for playing
SM5
PS: By the by remember I am a clanner too so I am not exempt from feeling the sting of the new sensory chamber.
Anyways, I still see this last build as forward progress. Even if the game isn't perfect, some ammount of fun has been restored from past builds. I just hope you guys don't use "our playtest team is too small to accurately balance the game" as an excuse to ignore the more scathing issues this last patch uncovered in the next patch.
Now, if one were to change everything back to b5, except for the SC changes, I dont know how the SC would play exactly, but it probably wouldnt be as bad as this.
Notice that clans alien tie regardless of chamber. DC first is a **** to play against if those DCs go up quickly. Cara skulks vs lvl 0 weapons anyone?! Seriously, it is not the SC in itself, it is the amount of boosts the khaara have gotten combined, without some sort of balancing measures taken.
New (and imo good) features have gone in, without any thought of balance.
Look at the source of the imbalance first, make a fix, and if SCs are still overpowered when playing with MCs and DCs work well, then take another look at that chamber.
[Edit]
So just take a step back, a deep breath, and stop crusading against the SC. This isnt the time. If we want to be taken seriously, we need to look at the big picture and make reasonable suggestions.
And I really don't care if the game is balanced or not.
I just wanna play some NS!!!!!!!!11111112345
But I CAN'T!!! D: