<!--QuoteBegin--BlackWolf+Nov 17 2002, 08:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlackWolf @ Nov 17 2002, 08:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think I'll join the fun in here, just cause I'm bored and its late at night and I'm not playing any more NS. (By the way....PONG! First video game I ever played!) I Learned something the other day, which I've shared here before: I had wandered my way into an unofficial clanmatch, and I uncovered the greatest balance issue in the game. It wasnt the Marine's weapons. It wasnt the Fade's armor. It was the <i>players</i>! I played on both clans, and one was horribly uncoordinated, and was terribly obnoxious. The other was quieter, efficient, and they listened to their commander, or they communicated as aliens. The difference wasnt in the side, it was all in the players. In the few weeks I've had NS, I've come to discover that the heart and soul of the game, the balance, the pleasure, the thing that makes this game so unique and special isnt the side you choose..its the players youre with. Just like StarCraft, WarCraft, CnC, RA or any other strategy games, each side has its own special quirks that makes it what it is..and in the hands of a master, it will defeat nearly anything, whereas, in the hands of a fool, they will die every time. Such is with NS. Things dont need nerfing, those of you who desire nerfs. All that this mod needs is the little fine tuning that'll make it smooth. Who knows? Maybe our Lone Rambos will learn to work as a team. Then again, maybe the marines will slowly lose numbers until they become a small group of the very best, hard to beat, as all these guys have learned to work together, while all our Rambos have become aliens, and dont even communicate, sealing the aliens to a dark, dead fate. Who knows. In the meantime, however, I only have one thing to say.
There are a few bugs that are being worked on, but I definately see this game pretty damn close to being the best it can be. Each side has its exploits, otherwise all of you players who do some of that massive complaining seem to want a "super" race that wins each match. Its a game.
do you think its only CS? most 3D shooters dont rely that much on teamplay as NS does. and most HL players DO play that "simple FPS" way. also NS is more of an RTS style game, which is something totally different. most people dont realize that, as you can still see on public servers. if people post their whiny arguments about something not being balanced then I tell them how the things are really are. and if you would actually open your eyes you would see it yourself that most people dont think that this game takes that much teamplay on the marines side and then whine about an totally unbalanced game. if you dont like my post then ignore it. you seem smart enough for that.
only real balance problem is the speed of development for both teams. Aliens can get that 2nd hive up real quick if theres 2 gorges, 1 to build and 1 to wait, and then the fades completly rape the "still getting the 2nd rt" marines. fades come too quick, and marines "things" come too slow.
i remember in 1.0 if you diddnt get that third hive you were gonna lose, but now it seems you just need that 2nd hive to win. :\
People complain whether balance is changed, or whether balanced isn't changed. It's next to impossible to tweak balance without real data. That's why I've been trying to improve NS' logging so it can become compatible with PsychoStats. I can't change balance until I start seeing lots of data from hundreds of games. Otherwise it's just tweaking from anecdotal evidence, which is maddening. Balance will continue to be addressed, and the game will continue to be tweaked. We're not giving up on it, and the game isn't at risk of being ruined permanently anytime soon. Just give it a little time, the game has only been out two weeks!
<!--QuoteBegin--Cyanide+Nov 17 2002, 01:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyanide @ Nov 17 2002, 01:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...The game is <b>balanced.</b> I've been playing NS for 7 months, with newbs through vets at any given time. If you see an 'imbalance' it's because your team does not have the right coordination, or the other team is exceptionally good. There is no actual balance problems. I have been playing alot of competitive NS scrims and matches, and it has been totally winable on both sides at any given time with matched skill. Please do not complain about balance issues.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ars and Somethingawful have scrimmed since 1.01 was released, and consistently, whoever is alien wins. There has been one marine win by Ars, when they all rushed as marine straight to our existing hive.
EDIT: this is of 7-10 games (I can't quite remember really, some of the games seemed very long)
First of all I'd like to say 'Hi' as i am a new member. Secondly about the balance of Ns. Ns is not 'unbalanced' as some might say. The people who say 'how the game is SO unbalanced and how i am SO good and that only people who are cheating can kill me' say things because:
A) either they are losing B) think if they get killed someone must be hacking, the game must be unbalanced, etc. C) they are speaking some truths mixed with anger and such emotions which clouds ones judgement D) they are speaking whole truths E) they talk to much
Any one of the situations listed above are possible.
I think that Ns really comes down to the players. If there is a group of marines who do not listen to the comm or wander off to go alien hunting will most likely die. The marines should work together indefinately. Aliens do not need as much teamwork as the marines but every bit counts. If ANY team, alien OR marine, work together in perfect allignment then they shall be close to invincible. If any of the two races work in utter confusion, relying only on oneself and totaly disruptive to teamwork, then they shall fall to ashes. If there is anything to complain about it's that over 50% of the time(based on the servers i played) the the teams are at 1:2 ratio in favor of the marines.
simple way to see if it's balanced or not, another server patch, adds a tiny little bit of code that whenever a game ends, sends to a central dev team controled location which team won, aliens or marines. Let it run for a while and we'll see how balanced things really are (maybe it should keep track of if it was tournament mode or whatever else, but you get the idea) Oh and personally i am fine with the balance as it is now, but i'd much rather see bugs being fixed before balance changes.
Ok suppose I wanted to see this ub3r l33t side of NS, but have to play in clans to do so. How good do I have to be to enter a clan? Do they accept people who aren't great but willing to learn/listen?
the only reaon marines keep loosing is because most commanders are really really crap. Most are just FPS players who have never played an RTS, and dont nuderstand the importance of resources, and strategically placed turrents, and alot of other things!
Marines hinge entirely on the commander and the teamwork that they use. It's as simple as that, they can't win if they don't work together, <b>nor should they.</b> Teamwork is what makes NS unique; boosting up the humans' power to compensate for the idiots will just mean that a group of organized humans will annihilate the aliens. If you just want to shoot bugs, go play AvP2, it's a great game. This is not AvP2, this is a team-based game, and if you can't play like a team, you'd best be prepared to lose often. Losers' fault, not the game's fault.
You don't see people saying 'OMG footballs too hard nerf the ball so its fair!11!!1' It's considered a foregone conclusion that the players need to play as a team. The humans have all the advantage they need in their commander, anyone who's on the ball up in that chair should be able to direct their team to victory.
Comments
Just like StarCraft, WarCraft, CnC, RA or any other strategy games, each side has its own special quirks that makes it what it is..and in the hands of a master, it will defeat nearly anything, whereas, in the hands of a fool, they will die every time. Such is with NS. Things dont need nerfing, those of you who desire nerfs. All that this mod needs is the little fine tuning that'll make it smooth.
Who knows? Maybe our Lone Rambos will learn to work as a team. Then again, maybe the marines will slowly lose numbers until they become a small group of the very best, hard to beat, as all these guys have learned to work together, while all our Rambos have become aliens, and dont even communicate, sealing the aliens to a dark, dead fate. Who knows. In the meantime, however, I only have one thing to say.
Pong.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
AMEN
There are a few bugs that are being worked on, but I definately see this game pretty damn close to being the best it can be. Each side has its exploits, otherwise all of you players who do some of that massive complaining seem to want a "super" race that wins each match. Its a game.
$.02
if people post their whiny arguments about something not being balanced then I tell them how the things are really are. and if you would actually open your eyes you would see it yourself that most people dont think that this game takes that much teamplay on the marines side and then whine about an totally unbalanced game.
if you dont like my post then ignore it. you seem smart enough for that.
i remember in 1.0 if you diddnt get that third hive you were gonna lose, but now it seems you just need that 2nd hive to win. :\
Ars and Somethingawful have scrimmed since 1.01 was released, and consistently, whoever is alien wins. There has been one marine win by Ars, when they all rushed as marine straight to our existing hive.
EDIT: this is of 7-10 games (I can't quite remember really, some of the games seemed very long)
A) either they are losing
B) think if they get killed someone must be hacking, the game must be unbalanced, etc.
C) they are speaking some truths mixed with anger and such emotions which clouds ones judgement
D) they are speaking whole truths
E) they talk to much
Any one of the situations listed above are possible.
I think that Ns really comes down to the players. If there is a group of marines who do not listen to the comm or wander off to go alien hunting will most likely die. The marines should work together indefinately. Aliens do not need as much teamwork as the marines but every bit counts. If ANY team, alien OR marine, work together in perfect allignment then they shall be close to invincible. If any of the two races work in utter confusion, relying only on oneself and totaly disruptive to teamwork, then they shall fall to ashes. If there is anything to complain about it's that over 50% of the time(based on the servers i played) the the teams are at 1:2 ratio in favor of the marines.
Thank you for showing up!
Ok suppose I wanted to see this ub3r l33t side of NS, but have to play in clans to do so. How good do I have to be to enter a clan? Do they accept people who aren't great but willing to learn/listen?
Most are just FPS players who have never played an RTS, and dont nuderstand the importance of resources, and strategically placed turrents, and alot of other things!
You don't see people saying 'OMG footballs too hard nerf the ball so its fair!11!!1' It's considered a foregone conclusion that the players need to play as a team. The humans have all the advantage they need in their commander, anyone who's on the ball up in that chair should be able to direct their team to victory.