Cooling Solutions
<div class="IPBDescription">Watercooling vs all-copper-huge-heatsink</div> I'm stuck between two options for my new pc, either an amazing watercooling setup, such as one with parts from Danger Den.. or those immensely huge, all copper, silent heatsinks from Zalman.
The watercooling kit will cost around $300-400 and the all copper heatsinks, $100 in total.
D: I'm so confused. Is the watercooling kit worth $200->$300 more? Will the heatsinks snap my mobo into small peices with the weight? D:
The watercooling kit will cost around $300-400 and the all copper heatsinks, $100 in total.
D: I'm so confused. Is the watercooling kit worth $200->$300 more? Will the heatsinks snap my mobo into small peices with the weight? D:
Comments
If you are gonna overclock.. then get buy something faster.
Water will preform slightly better then the alteritive any way you cut it as well, but you really need to OC the hell out of your standard CPU/GPU to start to see the difference.
If you are gonna overclock.. then get buy something faster. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If we're talking about the reserator, that thing runs up around the same cost as any normal watercooling set. I was thinking we were talking about one of the air based HS towers like the thermaltake sonictower...
The temp rose all of 2 degrees... XD So it's fine <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ya, it doesn't warrent a one time cost of 300$, but if you keep your parts clean you really never have to replace your pump hozes or radiators, the only part that ever has to be replaced is the PU blocks.
How about some bad points for both so I can compare? What is wrong with air cooling? what is wrong with watercooling?
Thanks by the way for your help so far <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
One tap.
One hose.
Connect hose to tap. Wrap hose through warm components, and back out again ---> bath/sink. Run cold water.
How about some bad points for both so I can compare? What is wrong with air cooling? what is wrong with watercooling?
Thanks by the way for your help so far <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Water cooled systems are HEAVY! Basicly if you go water cooled, you are anchoring your PC to that place in the ground, it would be far too much effort to bring it to lan parties or anything along that line. You can take it from place to place if you move residences, but it will ususally take alot of effort for one person to carry anywhere, and being full of water, you REALLY have to make sure you don't cause a breach in any of the hoses while you are moving it. Computer internals don't like water.
Funbags is absolutly right here, you would see better preformance if you bought the heattower and put the extra money into a higher grade CPU this time around (unless you are already getting something along the lines of the FX-55). But the nextime you go to replace all your hardware 3-4 years down the line, all you have to by in terms of cooling is a new waterblock (75$) so you end up paying LESS on cooling then you would have the first time, and you get a somewhat better system as well.
[edit]I would never recommend nor use watercooling for a machine that is likely to be used at serveral lan parties. It just isn't practical.
How about some bad points for both so I can compare? What is wrong with air cooling? what is wrong with watercooling?
Thanks by the way for your help so far <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's wrong with air cooling? You won't be able to overclock to the most extreme speeds and you could have more noise, depending on the quality and quantity of the fans you use.
What's wrong with water cooling? The cost doesn't justify it, unless you've got a $3000 computer that you desperately need to overclock.
Personally, unless you want to do water cooling for fun, I'd recommend air cooling.
Thanks for the continued help guys.
Incase you were wondering about planned spec (subject to change)
Asus Slot 939 SLI Mobo (for flexibility with upgrades)
AMD Athlon 64 3800+ (maybe a 4000+)
2GB ram
2x 200GB drives in Raid 0
1x 120GB drive
2x Good opticals
GeForce 6800 gt (which by the way, will be $100 or so in a year or so time. This is why SLI is good <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
Doowit.
Just dowet.
Doowit.
Just dowet. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's so special about the fx55 versus the 4000? o.O?
Doowit.
Just dowet. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's so special about the fx55 versus the 4000? o.O? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
bench mark smashing architexture, primed for gaming and highly practical for standard functions as well.
End result you knowtice an extra 7-10 FPS while playing doom3.
Doowit.
Just dowet. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's so special about the fx55 versus the 4000? o.O? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bench mark smashing architexture, primed for gaming and highly practical for standard functions as well.
End result you knowtice an extra 7-10 FPS while playing doom3. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is that worth $200-300 more?
Not really. WATARCOOLING!!!11111oneoneoneene
On a serious note I think I may have found a good watercooling system.
Problem is... I can't find where they are sold D:
I've googled, froogled, pricewatched, newegged and all kinds of things
Heeeelp meeee!
I'm looking for the Coolermaster Aquagate mini r120 o.o;
it doesnt cost 300$, it costs about 150$ if you dont buy a kit, and isntead get the parts individually.
it isnt hassle free, every few months youve got to clean it out.
---
in general, they arent any different from high-end aircoolers, the quiet watercooling setups are quieter than the quiet aircoolers, and the COLD watercooling setups are colder than the huge copper heatsinks, but if you buy a cheap kit or a koolance, you wont have either of these features.
if youre going into watercooling, know it is a hobby unto its own, it takes lots of reading to know what parts will be best, and then to modify your case to fit that new radiator inside. the computer wont get as heavy as someone above said if you run an inline pump (theres no need for more than a few pints of water that way, you arent lugging around several gallons)
also, theyve got potential to become massive if you want to, which is a lot of fun. i've got a heatercore hanging out my bedroom window, keeping my CPU at outside ambient temperatures, no matter how fast i clock it. it also then requires no fan noise inside the room. (the videocard fan notwithstanding) (this leaves me with a 85 dollar athlon 2500 clocked at 2.2ghz, meaning 3600+ equivalent power, at about 100F core temp)
kits are like brand name computers, and if youre building your own computer, you should know full well that it is better to build your own watercooling system, and its gonna take a lot of work. if youre up to it, theres rewards. heres a great forum for some real information: <a href='http://forums.pcper.com/forumdisplay.php?f=35' target='_blank'>http://forums.pcper.com/forumdisplay.php?f=35</a>
CPU waterblock: <a href='http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=31&cat=58&page=1' target='_blank'>http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?...1&cat=58&page=1</a>
Radiator:
<a href='http://www.overclock.co.uk/customer/product.php?productid=18198' target='_blank'>http://www.overclock.co.uk/customer/produc...productid=18198</a>
Pump:
<a href='http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=135&cat=23&page=1' target='_blank'>http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?...5&cat=23&page=1</a>
I'm betting that pump shouldn't be too loud. The thre fan radiator means I can slow down the fans significantly and still get LOTS of cooling power.
That said, I'd have to mod My new case significantly <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(that's a good thing)
Planned case:
<a href='http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-123-076&depa=0' target='_blank'>http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc....-123-076&depa=0</a>
I think my planned computer is going to look pretty sweet... \n.n/
the radiator is good, but overpriced. if money is any object, go to an automotive store and ask for a catalogue or some way to see about heatercore dimensions, as you are looking for a heatercore by size, not car model#. a heatercore is exactly the same thing as that BIX youre looking at, but as it is mass produced, it will be cheaper, and of similar effectiveness to that one.
that BIX doesnt have mounting barbs, youll need to attach some to get tubing attached. same goes for the heatercore or the pump. make sure all your tubig is of the same size, and equal to or greater than 3/8" interior diameter. over in the USA the standards are 3/8" interior and 1/2" interior, you may see 1/2" exterior diameter but thats going to be smaller than a 1/2" interior.
you want the thickest tubing you can fit into the case, as more water is good. make sure the pump supports large tubing, and make sure the whole system is of the same diameter. (no sense having small barbs on the heatsink...)
Doowit.
Just dowet. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's so special about the fx55 versus the 4000? o.O? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bench mark smashing architexture, primed for gaming and highly practical for standard functions as well.
End result you knowtice an extra 7-10 FPS while playing doom3. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is that worth $200-300 more?
Not really. WATARCOOLING!!!11111oneoneoneene
On a serious note I think I may have found a good watercooling system.
Problem is... I can't find where they are sold D:
I've googled, froogled, pricewatched, newegged and all kinds of things
Heeeelp meeee!
I'm looking for the Coolermaster Aquagate mini r120 o.o; <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you're saying he should spend that 300 dollars to cool down his proccessor, which he's KILLING with overclocking to get it to run (Not even close) to those specifications?
I don't know if anybody told you, but even if its well cooled, but overclocking cuts the life of your proccessor down considerably. There's so much room for error, when instead you can go the smart way, and get the best proccessor out there. (Realistically.)
Doowit.
Just dowet. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's so special about the fx55 versus the 4000? o.O? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bench mark smashing architexture, primed for gaming and highly practical for standard functions as well.
End result you knowtice an extra 7-10 FPS while playing doom3. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is that worth $200-300 more?
Not really. WATARCOOLING!!!11111oneoneoneene
On a serious note I think I may have found a good watercooling system.
Problem is... I can't find where they are sold D:
I've googled, froogled, pricewatched, newegged and all kinds of things
Heeeelp meeee!
I'm looking for the Coolermaster Aquagate mini r120 o.o; <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you're saying he should spend that 300 dollars to cool down his proccessor, which he's KILLING with overclocking to get it to run (Not even close) to those specifications?
I don't know if anybody told you, but even if its well cooled, but overclocking cuts the life of your proccessor down considerably. There's so much room for error, when instead you can go the smart way, and get the best proccessor out there. (Realistically.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not initially planning to overclock my computer.
I'm also not paying $600 for the 3800. Paying $360ish <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The FX 55 goes for around $800. It's not twice as powerfull, so, I'm still sticking with the 3800 <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://drfuzzy.nsarmslab.com/pic/case1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://drfuzzy.nsarmslab.com/pic/case2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Notice the sexy locking case door/front door to keep people from jacking your internals while at a lan party? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Buying the dangerden setup:
Why?
Because it will only cost me £140. That is the price of as sub-par water cooling system in the UK. So, I say, WEWT WATARCOOLING!!!!
I will need to construct a housing assembly for the immense radiator though xD
<a href='http://www.dangerden.com/images/rbx/RBX_lg.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.dangerden.com/images/rbx/RBX_lg.jpg</a>
any comments on the choice? o'o
I don't know if anybody told you, but even if its well cooled, but overclocking cuts the life of your proccessor down considerably. There's so much room for error, when instead you can go the smart way, and get the best proccessor out there. (Realistically.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The two basic things that are bad for processors: voltage and heat. Water cooling eliminates one, but if you need a high voltage to run the processor overclocked then you are probably hurting it(depends on design, early northwood core p4's didn't like increased voltages much, probably due to electromigration, but latter p4's ran perfectly fine even with quite bit above stock voltages). Overclocking without increasing voltages and and at decent temperatures does not have a significant impact on processor life, but then you won't need water cooling.
Processors aren't made to run at their specifications, they are made and then binned, picking the best processors for a higher speed rating. Typically higher speed ratings have less head room, i.e. they are 'factory overclocked' in every sense, while high yield low specced processors usually have a lot of head room .
Saying that buying a more expensive processor to begin with is a better option is quite frankly usually not the case. Even at stock voltage many processors go quite a ways. For example the 2.4c northwoods are practically guaranteed to do 3.0 GHz at stock voltage, the celeron 300a practically allways did 450 MHz and was as good as processors several times it's cost in it's day. Some versions of the low rated athlon XP thuroughbreds (e.g 1700+ TB core with some specific model number) could both be multiplier unlocked and overclocked to above 2.0 GHz at stock voltage. Winchester core 3000+ athlon 64's usually do 2.2-2.4 GHz at stock voltages and the new e steppings doing significantly better still, being as good as processors 2-3 times the price. If you want to run with the FSB at 1:1 which is preffered then of course you need better memory, but this isn't a huge increase in cost, certainly less than the cost of the better CPU.
Overclocking needs a few things: knowledge of which parts tend to overclock well and which don't, quite carefull testing for stabillity(hell, you should run memtest 86 and super pi/prime 95 anyway to check for stabillity) and accepting that there are no guarantees, a lucky sample can be significantly better than an unlucky one. Overclocking requires extra effort and knowledge(some of which everyone should have overclocking or not, such as running the memory on 1T command rate is much preffered over 2T on the k8 architecture).
I'd much rather get an expensive processor with lower priced cooling than a lower priced processor with expensive cooling.