<i>"This features would make Natural-Selection to the best Half-Life2 Mod."</i> : by zone.magazine™
· Yeah, and thats really true! I love Natural-Selection. Many other people like the concepts, but they have no ambitions to learn it. So NS need a cool training, which shows so basics to play.
· New marine.tech would make the game more complex and this is the best for a game. Not too much, but enough. In addition, it would make the game fresh. New things make all exiting. (New things for investigate.)
· New aliens and alien chambers would make the kharaa more interesting for the gamers. Often the players don't know the cool features of the aliens, the freedom. With new things, you can take the gamers playing as alien. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
· Vehicles and outdoor levels are very awesome, but I think a little bit to different to "convert". ( I do not want to doubt you <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> You're great! ) But, maybe it's doable.
------------------- I really like the ideas of you. I know why you are starting a vote, because you can't do all.
I hope you will have new special ideas for NS Source. I believe in you! [Sorry for my bad lenguage. English isn't my mothertongue!]
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Jasp+May 6 2005, 04:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jasp @ May 6 2005, 04:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why? help new players into the game and brush up on the game for us old at heart players. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> awwwwww that's so <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
anyways with a new training map you could have a small introdruction to following orders, tips on following waypoints, securing a hive\capturing res nodes, practice target range... etc and the same sorta stuff for aliens
I liked that training level that guy released for NS earlier in the year but it wasn't very comprehensive and you didn't get to play aliens which a lot of new players need help with (it took me a good two months before i learned everything about aliens... well i'm still learning technically, once you get their abilities down you learn strategies which takes a lot longer)
heavy melee damage soaking is basically an onos. I mean whether it likes it or not, it soaks up alot of damage, and gore is a pretty gruesome opponent.
I kinda like the high agility ranged alien, though it does represent the lerk (maybe with spikes?)
I see pretty much all the roles filled except heavy ranged, which should be a marine only role.
<!--QuoteBegin-Amped!+May 6 2005, 07:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Amped! @ May 6 2005, 07:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A new alien would be nice but what niche is not filled?
Skulks - Stealth/Agility/Recon/Light Melee Gorge - Builder/Healer/Defense/Siege Lerk - Support/Agility/Harrassment Fade - Assault/Medium Melee/Agility Onos - Siege/Assassination Name? - Heavy Melee/Damage Soaking Name? - Ranged/Agility <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd like a burrowing alien, tbh. Or a water alien. I'm really serious here: a "speciality" alien, if you will. Something that isn't always the most effecient creature for the job, but in the right circumstances it's like "I OWN THIS AREA, STAY OUT!". Obviously it shouldn't be <i>completely</i> useless when it's not in its "native environment, so to speak, but I think it would add an extra element to NS that mappers in particular would be able to take advantage of (I'm assuming that Source will facilitate outside environments, or at least really big indoor environments). Big open fields/canyons aren't exactly good ideas in NS maps as we know them, because fades and lerks are the only aliens that would survive in such an area. However, if a speciality alien were available to dominate that kind of terrain, the map would be balanced.
Just something to think about, though it's more likely for NS2 than NS:S.
BreakthroughTexture Artist (ns_prometheus)Join Date: 2005-03-27Member: 46620Members, Constellation
I would really like to see vehicles implemented somehow. Even if it's just at the beginning, it would be cool. The only thing I see a problem is an Alien counter to this, or possibly an Alien vehicle of it's own (maybe Skulks can hitch a ride on Onos's backs, and Lerks can lift other Aliens?).
One vehicle I could see working would be something along the lines of that thing Ripley pilots to fight the queen in Alien. A forklift or something similar for moving structures. Maybe a wheelchair for gimped marines?
Alt fire, no thanks. Leave that to UT2k4 or HL2. It would be a headache to design or balance weaponry for two firing modes.
No sniper rifles, please. No good will come from it, but it sure will attract AWP noobs. Flamethrower would fit well and seems like a logical solution for clearing vents.
If cloaking and SoF are removed, you have an excuse for adding an alien built for scouting. Consider adding a lifespan to parasites, along with the ability to remove them, making the scouting alien essential as a gorge. This particular lifeform would have built in cloaking, either passive or as an ability.
First and foremost, I <b>implore</b> you to port over the current physics (most of it, at least). NS wouldn't be NS without it's wide variety of movement options (bunnyhopping, glide jumping, etc). See points five and six.
Second of all, all the maps could use some "lubrication". Give SaltzBad original credit for this. If aliens would get stuck on small invisible clips less, and perhaps wouldn't run into damn invisible clips at the top of most ramps, etc (you get my point), they would be a lot more fun and a lot easier to play.
Third of all, some new marine/alien tech would be <b>nice</b>, but not really a top priority.
Fourth, some type of integrated clan features would be nice.
Fifth, mp_blockscripts <b>should not be included</b>.
Sixth, a quake-style jumping system (where a jump command is queue'd instead of gone to waste if the jump key is hit and the player has not yet hit the ground.) would be nice, and would help new players learn to bunnyhop more easily.
Seventh, no vehicles/large outdoor areas, please.
Eight, random shotgun spread and the removal of the "shotgun bug" would be very ideal (excuse the slight off-topicness).
Ninth, it would be ideal if the game could be a little more linear. Perhaps something even as radical as a "fourth hive" could help achieve this. Basically, the game is much too alien sided when they get 2 hives. Keep it as much skill-oriented as possible.
Tenth, a faster dev cycle. I know this is being worked on already, but it would be almost a necessity.
Eleventh, VAC[2] support and steam mygames integration. Once the latter is completed, NS will do anything from grow to explode in popularity.
That is all I can think of at the moment, I will edit this post or make a new reply if I think of anything else.
mp_blockscripts <b>should</b> be included, scripts are holding people back from their <b>actuall</b> potential of gameplay, people can do so many things better without scripts.
the game wont be the same seeing as the physics cannot be the same, seeing as its a different version of the entire engine, trying to bhop in hl2 is like trying to even "pub hop" in a wheelchair or something to that extent.
the most important thing probably would be to get ns on the "My Games" list, and able to download by the click of a button through steam, its the easiest way that people could try the game, if my friend didnt force me to download the installer and find out how to install it (which isnt hard but i was a computer noob then) i would have never played this game.
more hitboxes please, the game is so alien sided at the moment because of the power of celerity skulks vs vanilla rines, that they either a) cant be hit or b) just get screwed because of fast moving skulks in small rooms.. k?
marines need to be able to upgrade Ninja Mode from the proto. Aliens have DCs, which are like HA, and MCs, which are like jetpacks, SO WHY NOT INVISABILITY LIKE SCS???
and if you sneak up on a fade its 1 hit kill with your katana== owned <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I love natural-selection, I don't play it that much but the originality behind the game has caught a special place in my heart. I love supporting the competitive and mod communities with my sites, Amped eSports and DX. I can safely say keeping my eye on NS and seeing how other games evolve the most limiting factor to the growth of NS is the learning curve. Granted this isn't a game for the weekend warrior, but in all honesty why shouldn't it be? I know combat was meant to help this as well as allow more quick based gameplay, but I think the biggest improvement you could make with NS:S would be to make it a bit easier to pickup and play.
The training suggestion on the poll I think would be an excellent choice. I've always admired the people with the ability to command and who understood the game well. But in all honestly it's a tough task to get into the game initially. I'm not sure of what kind of training method would be good as that's a tough one to tackle. Steer clear of the America's Army method, that is for sure <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
Just wanted to drop by 2 cents on the subject. Charlie and crew keep up the great work!
I know that you already have great map maker support, but can we make it even more in depth. Can we get some special rooms, armories, power relays, sensory\antenna arrays, airlocks for cargo bays; the list goes on and on.
These would be smaller objectives on the map, not worth anything more then the bonuses that they would grant.
The armory could either house extra weapons, or reduce the price of weapons.
The power relay could reduce the lights all over the map if the aliens destroy them, or could be boosted if the marines control them. I envision any where between 10 and 25 of these all over the map, controlling lights to rooms, or hallways or complete sections.
The sensory/antenna could give a low level MT on the area it covers, or could boost the range or bonuses of the observation
Airlocks could be opened and closed which would close off sections of the map
i'd love to have new weapons/life forms/alternate fire... but PLEASE. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. NO SNIPER RIFLES!!!(insert ones as necessary)
we've already got the pistol for that, anyhoo. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> but all joking aside...most of the NS maps we know and love are close-quarters...i realize that if vehicles are implemented, then we'll most likely get some nice wide-open maps...but think about being a skulk and trying to cross that nice big gap...or, even better, an onos...vs a group of snipers...
i'd say a rocket launcher would be a better long-range weapon, just on the basis that it would give the aliens a chance, and it'd keep the pace of the game fast.
A training ground would be essential for the novice players, maybe even AI-integrated marines/aliens with varying levels of difficulty (improved aim, more movement/strafing during combat [combat being when they are attacking another]) Even an AI comm with predetermined roles for the marine (teaching noobs to build, use their +showmap, etc.), and even teach how to use stealth tactics and camping to fend off forces and quickly advance with little noticability.
I would also like to see a bind that brings up the current marine team's tech tree (when you're playing marine, it shows exactly what's upgraded [like Current Weapons/Armor levels, PT/MT, Armory, Name Proto, HA/JP], while taking up as little space as possible.) We have it somewhat, but it doesn't show you exactly what weapons or armor level you have, it just shows you whether it was upgraded at least to level 1 (though with armor you notice the +20 armor boost).
Modify parasite to distinguish between a Light Marine and HA/JP
I also have an idea about the kills-for-resources feature originally implemented in 2.0 (I believe). What if the marine recieves a fraction of a resource for each individual kill and is able to buy small limited time modifications, lasting 15-30 seconds, for example: A clip size bonus, offsetting with 120% damage reduction (10% clip size to -12% damage) or vice versa; an "energy shield" which boosts armor and armor absorption; an increase in the rate of recharge for Jetpack fuel... Aliens would need some of the same, like a portion of the res-for-kills would go into a seperate pool. For example, offering a temporary (level 3) upgrade within the existing alien tech tree (D/M/S) You can't stack this ability (use it more than once before it expires). The point of this is allowing an alien to have celerity and a temporary adrenaline or silence to go with it; At an increased rate, offer a temporary level 3 upgrade in a non-existing tech tree (A chamber that's not dropped)
You may be able to implement an Alt Fire mode, for example something like instead of hand grenade upgrade, it upgrades the LMG to include something like an M203 grenade launcher attachment to an M16A2. Note that this upgrade would only apply for the LMG (to prevent imbalance). The grenade would detonate upon impact (whether a wall, chamber, hive, or alien), and the grenade's velocity should be about where the GL's is, but with less of an arc. The reload time would be about 2-2.5 seconds, about the time it would take to grab another shell from your pack and place it in. The weapon will have 1 shot per clip, with 2 backup (though you will only get one grenade per spawn, like the hand grenade upgrade.) The armory would not be able to give ammo for this weapon type, but the commander can drop a pack of grenades which would give the marine 2 grenades at the cost of 5 resources per pack. This would allow the marines some way to neutralize walls of lame early on (or even late game) without being completely blocked off on a large portion of the map. To compensate, the damage should be reduced to 75 base damage (adding +10 dmg per weapons level) with a damage radius of about two-thirds the GL's grenades. Aliens could use something like programmable alternate fire modes for each class (like bite as left click, parasite or leap as right click) Maybe beef up parasite to do 15 damage, and force it to do armor damage (if they have any armor), would be a nice addition. Or even add a limited-time feature to each class (one use per x seconds)... something like skulks get a +10% damage bite, gorges get a "heal aura", lerks getting something like a double range scanner sweep, fade getting a "poison strike" that becomes active the next slash, doing +4 dmg per second for 5 seconds (good vs heavies), and onos getting something similar to 1.04 paralyze.
Another thing I've noticed is that Defense Chambers are not being given the love they deserve. They've gone from being the essential first chamber in 1.x/2.x to being either second or last in 3.0. Sensory has 2 uses (Cloaking, SoF), Movement has 2 uses (Hive teleportation, Energy boost) , Defense has only one (10hp heal per second). Defense chambers really do need a drastic change, IMHO. Maybe offering an light armor boost within range (+10 armor for skulk , +15 lerk: , +25 gorge , +40 fade , +75 onos) and 10-15% increased armor absorption within range might give it back the love lost in 3.0, and develop a new strategy for DC aliens.
I see Marines as needing some love in 3.x, as it's almost impossible to win a game once the second hive goes up (unless you're teched out with 2-3w/2a, MT, HA or JPs) by 10 mins, which is quite a challenge. You will have to control at least 5 resource towers for a significant amount of time (at least 9-12 minutes), this means controlling a "double node" spot or a critical choke point choke point in the vicinity of a hive location (like the area between waste and cargo in ns_tanith, the junction at the refinery end of tram tunnel or main aft in ns_bast, etc. The aliens can OC wall a choke point and inhibit marine movement, it's much harder for marines to do the same. Marines also must have a very competent team (not to mention a skilled commander) to stand a chance. (I'm looking at this from a 12v12 pub point of view, where the majority of NS players are playing). One good fade and lerk is all aliens need to control most of the map long enough for the other players to gestate into high lifeforms and dominate the game, while marines are stuck having to travel in large groups, often having their advance spotted via parasite and/or the lone wandering alien. The lerk/fade combo, especially with 2 hives, is by itself lethal unless the commander drops a few HMGs/shotties w/welders, thereby inhibiting their tech advance another couple of minutes, which is all a decent alien team needs to win.
Integrated clan support would be nice, on the pub and competitive level.
Vehicles is a bad idea.
New structures/upgrades would be great, like I said marines need love, and aliens need something new.
Before you add another chamber, work on balancing the chambers you already have.
Ranking might be okay to have, but it would encourage individual play rather than a team effort, though ranking for CO only could be good.
A new alien class might be good, but everybody's gonna wanna try it and that will lead to marine ownage the first week or two
I've sat here for at least an hour and a half jotting this down, and could probably do it for another hour, but I have things to tend to, and hopefully this is at least read and considered... just ideas I'm passing along. Good luck with NS:S and future versions of the game, I'll see you all there
I want a mech like a Goliath in Starcraft. Not so big, like a bigger HA <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Again.. i like all the options.
I think that outdoor and vehicles should be in NS:2 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think personally we are MASSIVELY overestimating the optimum scale of this project. What I want for NS Source is a integrated platform including alot of the long lost gameplay and atmosphere ideas that were too technically taxing to realisticly include in the HL engine, while at the same time simply expanding the well structured gameplay that we already have to make it fun and effective with proper phsysics based gameplay. To me we are talking about NS here, not NS2. This is still the first encounter, which is in essence small scale conflict between a spudding alien entity and low cost, expendable marine teams.
Vehicals and large combat zones just don't fit.
I'm all for a total remaking of the tech trees to accomidate a wider gameplay base with more options and more development paths, but in the end of the day I don't think large field combat is right for NS. At least not in our current classic and combat misson types.
New marine tech is definitely most important, then followed by new weapons (flamethrower not sniper though). The marine tech tree isn't as adaptable as the alien tech tree (which is all good) but I think that calls for more variety.
no sniper weapns pls....dont want it to become another CS-style game <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+May 7 2005, 10:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ May 7 2005, 10:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think personally we are MASSIVELY overestimating the optimum scale of this project. What I want for NS Source is a integrated platform including alot of the long lost gameplay and atmosphere ideas that were too technically taxing to realisticly include in the HL engine, while at the same time simply expanding the well structured gameplay that we already have to make it fun and effective with proper phsysics based gameplay. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What he said.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
edited May 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+May 6 2005, 11:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ May 6 2005, 11:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>TheAdj:</b> Yeah, it was hard to try to design NS to allow 'massing', when 'units' are human. I tried to do this with Babblers but it didn't really work.
Great feedback everyone, this is quite helpful.
I agree that large maps and vehicles would be difficult and wouldn't exactly fit NS but so many other FPS' have them I was wondering if you guys thought it was holding NS back.
I'm also surprised at the amount of people that voted for a training level, as forum-goers tend to be the most devoted of the hard-core and shouldn't need this. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The issue isn't the number of units available really, the game doesn't seem to focus on a real RTS aspect as much as RTT, strategy not being as important as tactics. How you approach the attack is more important than when the attack occurs in NS oftentimes, which is something that's overlooked more often than not. The tactical side of the game is ever-present, while strategy is more of a general thing that leaves few options due to the small tech tree that I explained previously. Moving to Source will allow for more players (if the code is clean enough to handle more players), so the numbers issue will fix itself. Focus on increasing the strategy area of the game and a lot more skillful commanders will appear from RTS communities, which most people will agree causes the overall skill level of the game to increase. Commanders set the flow of the game, so increasing the communities average comm skill will create better quality games.
Maps will need to increase if the number of max players increases (if the game is balanced to more than 12 people, which I do believe should happen. Doubling it to 24 or even 18 would totally change how competitive NS is played due to more players), but not massively. Vehicles will be awesome if they're implemented correctly, which should be as another way for marines to end the game, not simply as cool toys to drive around in and try to run over skulks.
Edit: I also 10000000000% support a fully stocked training level that teaches the basic mechanics and the basics of each class. It is very important to show incoming players what the game is about before they ever touch a populated server.
<!--QuoteBegin-kfli+May 7 2005, 05:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kfli @ May 7 2005, 05:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> marines need to be able to upgrade Ninja Mode from the proto. Aliens have DCs, which are like HA, and MCs, which are like jetpacks, SO WHY NOT INVISABILITY LIKE SCS???
and if you sneak up on a fade its 1 hit kill with your katana== owned <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> There's the observatory, which allows tracking near the obs (like the sensory chamber) and MT (like scent of fear) There's no perfect equivalence, but that's the charm of the game.
Comments
<span style='color:yellow'><span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'>Please read Flayar...</span></span>
<i>"This features would make Natural-Selection to the best Half-Life2 Mod."</i> : by zone.magazine™
· Yeah, and thats really true! I love Natural-Selection. Many other people like the concepts, but they have no ambitions to learn it. So NS need a cool training, which shows so basics to play.
· New marine.tech would make the game more complex and this is the best for a game. Not too much, but enough. In addition, it would make the game fresh. New things make all exiting. (New things for investigate.)
· New aliens and alien chambers would make the kharaa more interesting for the gamers. Often the players don't know the cool features of the aliens, the freedom. With new things, you can take the gamers playing as alien. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
· Vehicles and outdoor levels are very awesome, but I think a little bit to different to "convert". ( I do not want to doubt you <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> You're great! ) But, maybe it's doable.
-------------------
I really like the ideas of you. I know why you are starting a vote, because you can't do all.
I hope you will have new special ideas for NS Source. I believe in you!
[Sorry for my bad lenguage. English isn't my mothertongue!]
©heers,
Your Fan,
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> zone.Blackwolf
Why? help new players into the game and brush up on the game for us old at heart players.
awwwwww that's so <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
anyways with a new training map you could have a small introdruction to following orders, tips on following waypoints, securing a hive\capturing res nodes, practice target range... etc and the same sorta stuff for aliens
I liked that training level that guy released for NS earlier in the year but it wasn't very comprehensive and you didn't get to play aliens which a lot of new players need help with (it took me a good two months before i learned everything about aliens... well i'm still learning technically, once you get their abilities down you learn strategies which takes a lot longer)
Skulks - Stealth/Agility/Recon/Light Melee
Gorge - Builder/Healer/Defense/Siege
Lerk - Support/Agility/Harrassment
Fade - Assault/Medium Melee/Agility
Onos - Siege/Assassination
Name? - Heavy Melee/Damage Soaking
Name? - Ranged/Agility
EDIT - Arguably, a Fade is Heavy Melee/Damage Soaking due to their ability to take so much damage via hit and run tactics.
I kinda like the high agility ranged alien, though it does represent the lerk (maybe with spikes?)
I see pretty much all the roles filled except heavy ranged, which should be a marine only role.
Skulks - Stealth/Agility/Recon/Light Melee
Gorge - Builder/Healer/Defense/Siege
Lerk - Support/Agility/Harrassment
Fade - Assault/Medium Melee/Agility
Onos - Siege/Assassination
Name? - Heavy Melee/Damage Soaking
Name? - Ranged/Agility <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like a burrowing alien, tbh. Or a water alien. I'm really serious here: a "speciality" alien, if you will. Something that isn't always the most effecient creature for the job, but in the right circumstances it's like "I OWN THIS AREA, STAY OUT!". Obviously it shouldn't be <i>completely</i> useless when it's not in its "native environment, so to speak, but I think it would add an extra element to NS that mappers in particular would be able to take advantage of (I'm assuming that Source will facilitate outside environments, or at least really big indoor environments). Big open fields/canyons aren't exactly good ideas in NS maps as we know them, because fades and lerks are the only aliens that would survive in such an area. However, if a speciality alien were available to dominate that kind of terrain, the map would be balanced.
Just something to think about, though it's more likely for NS2 than NS:S.
Alt fire, no thanks. Leave that to UT2k4 or HL2. It would be a headache to design or balance weaponry for two firing modes.
No sniper rifles, please. No good will come from it, but it sure will attract AWP noobs. Flamethrower would fit well and seems like a logical solution for clearing vents.
If cloaking and SoF are removed, you have an excuse for adding an alien built for scouting. Consider adding a lifespan to parasites, along with the ability to remove them, making the scouting alien essential as a gorge. This particular lifeform would have built in cloaking, either passive or as an ability.
First and foremost, I <b>implore</b> you to port over the current physics (most of it, at least). NS wouldn't be NS without it's wide variety of movement options (bunnyhopping, glide jumping, etc). See points five and six.
Second of all, all the maps could use some "lubrication". Give SaltzBad original credit for this. If aliens would get stuck on small invisible clips less, and perhaps wouldn't run into damn invisible clips at the top of most ramps, etc (you get my point), they would be a lot more fun and a lot easier to play.
Third of all, some new marine/alien tech would be <b>nice</b>, but not really a top priority.
Fourth, some type of integrated clan features would be nice.
Fifth, mp_blockscripts <b>should not be included</b>.
Sixth, a quake-style jumping system (where a jump command is queue'd instead of gone to waste if the jump key is hit and the player has not yet hit the ground.) would be nice, and would help new players learn to bunnyhop more easily.
Seventh, no vehicles/large outdoor areas, please.
Eight, random shotgun spread and the removal of the "shotgun bug" would be very ideal (excuse the slight off-topicness).
Ninth, it would be ideal if the game could be a little more linear. Perhaps something even as radical as a "fourth hive" could help achieve this. Basically, the game is much too alien sided when they get 2 hives. Keep it as much skill-oriented as possible.
Tenth, a faster dev cycle. I know this is being worked on already, but it would be almost a necessity.
Eleventh, VAC[2] support and steam mygames integration. Once the latter is completed, NS will do anything from grow to explode in popularity.
That is all I can think of at the moment, I will edit this post or make a new reply if I think of anything else.
- exi . Jmms
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mp_blockscripts <b>should</b> be included, scripts are holding people back from their <b>actuall</b> potential of gameplay, people can do so many things better without scripts.
the game wont be the same seeing as the physics cannot be the same, seeing as its a different version of the entire engine, trying to bhop in hl2 is like trying to even "pub hop" in a wheelchair or something to that extent.
the most important thing probably would be to get ns on the "My Games" list, and able to download by the click of a button through steam, its the easiest way that people could try the game, if my friend didnt force me to download the installer and find out how to install it (which isnt hard but i was a computer noob then) i would have never played this game.
more hitboxes please, the game is so alien sided at the moment because of the power of celerity skulks vs vanilla rines, that they either a) cant be hit or b) just get screwed because of fast moving skulks in small rooms.. k?
and if you sneak up on a fade its 1 hit kill with your katana== owned <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I love natural-selection, I don't play it that much but the originality behind the game has caught a special place in my heart. I love supporting the competitive and mod communities with my sites, Amped eSports and DX. I can safely say keeping my eye on NS and seeing how other games evolve the most limiting factor to the growth of NS is the learning curve. Granted this isn't a game for the weekend warrior, but in all honesty why shouldn't it be? I know combat was meant to help this as well as allow more quick based gameplay, but I think the biggest improvement you could make with NS:S would be to make it a bit easier to pickup and play.
The training suggestion on the poll I think would be an excellent choice. I've always admired the people with the ability to command and who understood the game well. But in all honestly it's a tough task to get into the game initially. I'm not sure of what kind of training method would be good as that's a tough one to tackle. Steer clear of the America's Army method, that is for sure <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
Just wanted to drop by 2 cents on the subject. Charlie and crew keep up the great work!
I know that you already have great map maker support, but can we make it even more in depth. Can we get some special rooms, armories, power relays, sensory\antenna arrays, airlocks for cargo bays; the list goes on and on.
These would be smaller objectives on the map, not worth anything more then the bonuses that they would grant.
The armory could either house extra weapons, or reduce the price of weapons.
The power relay could reduce the lights all over the map if the aliens destroy them, or could be boosted if the marines control them. I envision any where between 10 and 25 of these all over the map, controlling lights to rooms, or hallways or complete sections.
The sensory/antenna could give a low level MT on the area it covers, or could boost the range or bonuses of the observation
Airlocks could be opened and closed which would close off sections of the map
It'd be good to spice up ns for source.
but PLEASE. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. NO SNIPER RIFLES!!!(insert ones as necessary)
we've already got the pistol for that, anyhoo. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
but all joking aside...most of the NS maps we know and love are close-quarters...i realize that if vehicles are implemented, then we'll most likely get some nice wide-open maps...but think about being a skulk and trying to cross that nice big gap...or, even better, an onos...vs a group of snipers...
i'd say a rocket launcher would be a better long-range weapon, just on the basis that it would give the aliens a chance, and it'd keep the pace of the game fast.
I would also like to see a bind that brings up the current marine team's tech tree (when you're playing marine, it shows exactly what's upgraded [like Current Weapons/Armor levels, PT/MT, Armory, Name Proto, HA/JP], while taking up as little space as possible.) We have it somewhat, but it doesn't show you exactly what weapons or armor level you have, it just shows you whether it was upgraded at least to level 1 (though with armor you notice the +20 armor boost).
Modify parasite to distinguish between a Light Marine and HA/JP
I also have an idea about the kills-for-resources feature originally implemented in 2.0 (I believe). What if the marine recieves a fraction of a resource for each individual kill and is able to buy small limited time modifications, lasting 15-30 seconds, for example: A clip size bonus, offsetting with 120% damage reduction (10% clip size to -12% damage) or vice versa; an "energy shield" which boosts armor and armor absorption; an increase in the rate of recharge for Jetpack fuel...
Aliens would need some of the same, like a portion of the res-for-kills would go into a seperate pool. For example, offering a temporary (level 3) upgrade within the existing alien tech tree (D/M/S) You can't stack this ability (use it more than once before it expires). The point of this is allowing an alien to have celerity and a temporary adrenaline or silence to go with it; At an increased rate, offer a temporary level 3 upgrade in a non-existing tech tree (A chamber that's not dropped)
You may be able to implement an Alt Fire mode, for example something like instead of hand grenade upgrade, it upgrades the LMG to include something like an M203 grenade launcher attachment to an M16A2. Note that this upgrade would only apply for the LMG (to prevent imbalance). The grenade would detonate upon impact (whether a wall, chamber, hive, or alien), and the grenade's velocity should be about where the GL's is, but with less of an arc. The reload time would be about 2-2.5 seconds, about the time it would take to grab another shell from your pack and place it in. The weapon will have 1 shot per clip, with 2 backup (though you will only get one grenade per spawn, like the hand grenade upgrade.) The armory would not be able to give ammo for this weapon type, but the commander can drop a pack of grenades which would give the marine 2 grenades at the cost of 5 resources per pack. This would allow the marines some way to neutralize walls of lame early on (or even late game) without being completely blocked off on a large portion of the map. To compensate, the damage should be reduced to 75 base damage (adding +10 dmg per weapons level) with a damage radius of about two-thirds the GL's grenades.
Aliens could use something like programmable alternate fire modes for each class (like bite as left click, parasite or leap as right click) Maybe beef up parasite to do 15 damage, and force it to do armor damage (if they have any armor), would be a nice addition.
Or even add a limited-time feature to each class (one use per x seconds)... something like skulks get a +10% damage bite, gorges get a "heal aura", lerks getting something like a double range scanner sweep, fade getting a "poison strike" that becomes active the next slash, doing +4 dmg per second for 5 seconds (good vs heavies), and onos getting something similar to 1.04 paralyze.
Another thing I've noticed is that Defense Chambers are not being given the love they deserve. They've gone from being the essential first chamber in 1.x/2.x to being either second or last in 3.0. Sensory has 2 uses (Cloaking, SoF), Movement has 2 uses (Hive teleportation, Energy boost) , Defense has only one (10hp heal per second). Defense chambers really do need a drastic change, IMHO. Maybe offering an light armor boost within range (+10 armor for skulk , +15 lerk: , +25 gorge , +40 fade , +75 onos) and 10-15% increased armor absorption within range might give it back the love lost in 3.0, and develop a new strategy for DC aliens.
I see Marines as needing some love in 3.x, as it's almost impossible to win a game once the second hive goes up (unless you're teched out with 2-3w/2a, MT, HA or JPs) by 10 mins, which is quite a challenge. You will have to control at least 5 resource towers for a significant amount of time (at least 9-12 minutes), this means controlling a "double node" spot or a critical choke point choke point in the vicinity of a hive location (like the area between waste and cargo in ns_tanith, the junction at the refinery end of tram tunnel or main aft in ns_bast, etc. The aliens can OC wall a choke point and inhibit marine movement, it's much harder for marines to do the same. Marines also must have a very competent team (not to mention a skilled commander) to stand a chance. (I'm looking at this from a 12v12 pub point of view, where the majority of NS players are playing). One good fade and lerk is all aliens need to control most of the map long enough for the other players to gestate into high lifeforms and dominate the game, while marines are stuck having to travel in large groups, often having their advance spotted via parasite and/or the lone wandering alien. The lerk/fade combo, especially with 2 hives, is by itself lethal unless the commander drops a few HMGs/shotties w/welders, thereby inhibiting their tech advance another couple of minutes, which is all a decent alien team needs to win.
Integrated clan support would be nice, on the pub and competitive level.
Vehicles is a bad idea.
New structures/upgrades would be great, like I said marines need love, and aliens need something new.
Before you add another chamber, work on balancing the chambers you already have.
Ranking might be okay to have, but it would encourage individual play rather than a team effort, though ranking for CO only could be good.
A new alien class might be good, but everybody's gonna wanna try it and that will lead to marine ownage the first week or two
I've sat here for at least an hour and a half jotting this down, and could probably do it for another hour, but I have things to tend to, and hopefully this is at least read and considered... just ideas I'm passing along. Good luck with NS:S and future versions of the game, I'll see you all there
- Cinder
Again.. i like all the options.
I think that outdoor and vehicles should be in NS:2 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Vehicals and large combat zones just don't fit.
I'm all for a total remaking of the tech trees to accomidate a wider gameplay base with more options and more development paths, but in the end of the day I don't think large field combat is right for NS. At least not in our current classic and combat misson types.
What he said.
Great feedback everyone, this is quite helpful.
I agree that large maps and vehicles would be difficult and wouldn't exactly fit NS but so many other FPS' have them I was wondering if you guys thought it was holding NS back.
I'm also surprised at the amount of people that voted for a training level, as forum-goers tend to be the most devoted of the hard-core and shouldn't need this. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The issue isn't the number of units available really, the game doesn't seem to focus on a real RTS aspect as much as RTT, strategy not being as important as tactics. How you approach the attack is more important than when the attack occurs in NS oftentimes, which is something that's overlooked more often than not. The tactical side of the game is ever-present, while strategy is more of a general thing that leaves few options due to the small tech tree that I explained previously. Moving to Source will allow for more players (if the code is clean enough to handle more players), so the numbers issue will fix itself. Focus on increasing the strategy area of the game and a lot more skillful commanders will appear from RTS communities, which most people will agree causes the overall skill level of the game to increase. Commanders set the flow of the game, so increasing the communities average comm skill will create better quality games.
Maps will need to increase if the number of max players increases (if the game is balanced to more than 12 people, which I do believe should happen. Doubling it to 24 or even 18 would totally change how competitive NS is played due to more players), but not massively. Vehicles will be awesome if they're implemented correctly, which should be as another way for marines to end the game, not simply as cool toys to drive around in and try to run over skulks.
Edit: I also 10000000000% support a fully stocked training level that teaches the basic mechanics and the basics of each class. It is very important to show incoming players what the game is about before they ever touch a populated server.
and if you sneak up on a fade its 1 hit kill with your katana== owned <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's the observatory, which allows tracking near the obs (like the sensory chamber) and MT (like scent of fear)
There's no perfect equivalence, but that's the charm of the game.