EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--quoteo(post=1567819:date=Sep 24 2006, 07:46 PM:name=UltimaGecko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(UltimaGecko @ Sep 24 2006, 07:46 PM) [snapback]1567819[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Despite the semblences of equilibrium, it really seems like this may be an unstable economy. Inevitably there will be far more MP5s and such purchased than AKs or M4s...but then the MP5 price will skyrocket...and so the AKs/M4s will be cheap, and people will use those, so the MP5 will become dirt cheap, so the people will start buying the MP5... (Of course, this implies that people will want to replace their pistols as soon as they can) Not that I really play CS:S that much, but I see some see-sawing prices in the future. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It wont probably just become dirt cheap over night, I doubt it will change from expensive to dirt cheap in 1 week, else I'll be disappointed in valve.
Wow.... I fully agree with Swiftspear. I think this kind of ruined CS:S. They should have just left it, it was fine the way it was. Don't fix it if it isn't broke.
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
<!--quoteo(post=1568197:date=Sep 27 2006, 04:28 PM:name=Epidemic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Epidemic @ Sep 27 2006, 04:28 PM) [snapback]1568197[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Oh, it was broke, they might as well have taken out anything but the colt,ak,deagle and awp.. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see this as changing the game's rules in any way, as previously stated. It forces a change in strategy, which most of CS:S pub play lacks,a nd CS:S competitive seems to be stuck in certain strats. I'm all for it. I love the colt/AK as well, but it's been funb to get MP5/tmp/p90 kills more lately (I've been playing with lesser used guns for some variety.
Although, I like knife kills most of all <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=Sep 27 2006, 04:28 PM:name=Epidemic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Epidemic @ Sep 27 2006, 04:28 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Oh, it was broke, they might as well have taken out anything but the colt,ak,deagle and awp..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bah whenever i played on a server where someone kept frequently using the AWP i would leave. in a way that gun just seems too cheap for me.
I really don't see the changes adversly affecting CS:S gameplay in the slightest.
This is blown way out of proportion!
All they really did was make the ###### weapons and equipment cheaper and the better ones slightly more expensive to promote a more versatile use of the weapons in game.
<!--quoteo(post=1568298:date=Sep 28 2006, 05:29 AM:name=viper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viper @ Sep 28 2006, 05:29 AM) [snapback]1568298[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I really don't see the changes adversly affecting CS:S gameplay in the slightest.
This is blown way out of proportion!
All they really did was make the ###### weapons and equipment cheaper and the better ones slightly more expensive to promote a more versatile use of the weapons in game. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It does effect the gameplay, it effects the buy strategies for competitive teams, and the buy strategies make a big difference. That being said, having different pricing isn't something competitive players are against for the most part, it's just having a pricing system that is not constant from match to match they they have a problem with, and with the svar to turn it off it will not be a problem.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
I still love how clanners whine and complain whenever a change to the game forces them to adapt. The cvar will cut down on the whining at least a bit, but the global s***-fit was goddamn hilarious when it was initially announced, honestly.
Then again, these are the kind of people who believe there is One Right Way to play a game.. I suppose it would be just a little upsetting to have your world turned upside down every week, and actually have the game evolve and change for greater balance.
In any case, here's hoping they force-update the closed servers to market values every three months or so. Should allow for global trend purchasing to balance the game (even through the actions of pubbers, ew ew ew gross blargh idiots etc.) and still let the clanners set up their One True Way and stick to it for a season.
<!--quoteo(post=1568320:date=Sep 28 2006, 10:25 AM:name=Talesin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Talesin @ Sep 28 2006, 10:25 AM) [snapback]1568320[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I still love how clanners whine and complain whenever a change to the game forces them to adapt. The cvar will cut down on the whining at least a bit, but the global s***-fit was goddamn hilarious when it was initially announced, honestly.
Then again, these are the kind of people who believe there is One Right Way to play a game.. I suppose it would be just a little upsetting to have your world turned upside down every week, and actually have the game evolve and change for greater balance. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1568197:date=Sep 27 2006, 03:28 PM:name=Epidemic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Epidemic @ Sep 27 2006, 03:28 PM) [snapback]1568197[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Oh, it was broke, they might as well have taken out anything but the colt,ak,deagle and awp.. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1567864:date=Sep 25 2006, 11:53 AM:name=Black_Mage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black_Mage @ Sep 25 2006, 11:53 AM) [snapback]1567864[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> i think the problem is cs get rid of cs, get rid of the problem! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->QFT
God, I loath CS so very much... still, it's one of the few games in which I've ever been invited to a clan in. [Greatest part is, an aquaintence of mine (Friend of a former friend, I hated his guts really...)] was on the same server, and thought he was all that... then this guy invites me to his clan, and the "friend" of mine basically ****s his pants about it for the rest of the day.
I don't see why so many people don't like CS. The community's not exactly stellar, but that doesn't diminish the gameplay at all. I myself find it pretty fun, although I prefer something like DoD.
Oh I enjoy it when I play... Like I mentioned, I got good enough that someone tried to get me onto their team...
It's just exceedingly simple, and the hitboxes became seemingly more watermellon headed in source. (When 90% of the kills in a round are head shots... on a low skill pub...)
I'd much rather play NS or even TFC or Dys...
Edit: I suppose I should mention I much prefer playing a supporting role in a game. In Dys I hack, NS I build structures and cover people... TFC I heavy... but usually I end up defencive... (Although the next most common role I play is Engy...)
<!--quoteo(post=1568378:date=Sep 28 2006, 04:52 PM:name=MrMojo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrMojo @ Sep 28 2006, 04:52 PM) [snapback]1568378[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> CS is exceedingly simple if you're an idiot. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Pray tell, for this young fool wishes to know, how exactly is it even moderately complex in it's nature?
You gotta... shoot the bad guys before they shoot you. Yeah it's basically team deathmatch, although I always end up planting the bomb if I have it or rescuing the hostages because I feel like doing it and I just shoot people who get in the way.
Same here... I only got as good at it as I did because I played it as an objective based game, rather than the frag fest it usually is... (Heck, Dust is almost unappologetically intended to be a firefight, both teams are equidistant from the <i>two</i> chokepoints... with the T side being a little further really... The only exception being a rush on A site... but that can lead to a slaughter... especially on a FF server...)
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Well, it depends on how you look at it. The rules of CS are very simple, but so are the rules of chess. Sometimes simplicity allows for very deep strategies. Go would be an even better example. It has very simple rules, but allows for games of amazing complexity. I think CS is very much like that. The top CS clans fine tune all aspects of their strategies, including their equipment purchases. I still think that a certain amount of variation, that would cause the teams to have to be a little more fluid in their play would be good for any game. Right now, the only real non-player random variable in CS is network latency, and I for one don't find that appealing.
It might be simple on the surface, and you can just join a server and shoot people, but its completely different in high level clanplay
Oh, and the update doesn't really matter because of the cvar. I personally think it's pretty dumb since the weapons themselves aren't balanced, but servers can pick and choose what they want.
<!--quoteo(post=1567978:date=Sep 26 2006, 07:18 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Sep 26 2006, 07:18 AM) [snapback]1567978[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You can track the weapons market on the steam website:
<!--quoteo(post=1568197:date=Sep 27 2006, 01:28 PM:name=Epidemic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Epidemic @ Sep 27 2006, 01:28 PM) [snapback]1568197[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Oh, it was broke, they might as well have taken out anything but the colt,ak,deagle and awp.. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha, so true.
According to the weapon prices, only the colt, ak, armor and deagle have risen in price. Meaning nearly 90% of all players just use those weapons. The awp is used the most by snipers(obviously), but the majority of people rather use something else besides a sniper rifle.
I wouldn't be surprise if people still only use those weapons if they're 6-8k+ in price, I mean it's not that hard to get money. Most servers have 20-30 minute maps, and it only takes a few rounds to get enough money.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> God, I loath CS so very much... still, it's one of the few games in which I've ever been invited to a clan in. [Greatest part is, an aquaintence of mine (Friend of a former friend, I hated his guts really...)] was on the same server, and thought he was all that... then this guy invites me to his clan, and the "friend" of mine basically ****s his pants about it for the rest of the day.
Still amuses me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've been invited to clans in CS as well, it's pretty easy process actually. Join a regular pub server, get a decent K:D ratio, someone will invite you.
I only see two types of clans in a regular CS pub: 1. Clans that invite anyone, and end up dying a week later. 2. Clan with many jerks that like to flame people as well as say many statements of them owning things.
I used to be pretty good at it.... and I'm still pretty good. But like people have said, they only raised the prices of the most used guns (like 99.9% used) to bring a greater balance.
For you people that think CS is complex, I suppose you can say this will add more complexity to the game and allow for more strategies. You now won't be able to get your favourite guns all the time.
<!--quoteo(post=1568426:date=Sep 29 2006, 03:11 AM:name=viper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viper @ Sep 29 2006, 03:11 AM) [snapback]1568426[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You now won't be able to get your favourite guns all the time. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
incorrect, i will be able to dualrush even more using the market prices.
You shouldn't be considered "professional" or "competitive" if you can't adapt. Valve isn't tweaking maps (CPL already has custom ones) or weapons, merely strategy.
<!--quoteo(post=1568618:date=Sep 30 2006, 11:05 PM:name=Javert)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Javert @ Sep 30 2006, 11:05 PM) [snapback]1568618[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You shouldn't be considered "professional" or "competitive" if you can't adapt. Valve isn't tweaking maps (CPL already has custom ones) or weapons, merely strategy. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh stop talking about adapting. Competetive gamers are still better. Is it ridiculous for them to enjoy the game the way it is? Look at how many people complained (and still are complaining) about NS: Combat. Hey, why didn't you guys adapt! Look at how many people complained about the Veteran program. Adapt!!!
I said it before, despite the famous firewater quote, competitive play is not about adapting, it's about playing the game at the best it needs to be played. Last season in hockey they increased the strictness against pulling people around with your stick, any contact with the stick to another player's body can be called hooking now. It took some players nearly half the season to get used to it so they weren't causing penalties for their team nearly every game. You don't go to professional sporting event to see players adapting to forms of the game they have never considered before and coaches trying to figure out what the hell they are doing, you go to see people playing the game they know inside and out the best it can be played.
Strictly speaking I'm sure the competitive teams could adapt to different pricing every week, however it wouldn't be as fun a game to play and it would ruin some teams that would play much better if they didn't have to do it, it wouldn't be as fun a game to keep on top of since teams would constantly be complaining about loosing due to money circumstances they didn't anticipate. The higher the level of play the more predeveloped, you don't want to see teams having to second guess their season's by strategies, you want to see them honing what is familiar to perfection.
Competitive players can handle alot of static changes to a game, it doesn't take them insanely long to recrunch the numbers, play with things the first few scrims and matches and figure out what strats you will be developing for the next season, it's not as fun but you do it because you want to win and if you can figure out that strategic edge over everyone else you're one step ahead. Static changes are tolerable to competitive players, but frankly it's just stupid to expect them to like dynamic changes.
Comments
Despite the semblences of equilibrium, it really seems like this may be an unstable economy. Inevitably there will be far more MP5s and such purchased than AKs or M4s...but then the MP5 price will skyrocket...and so the AKs/M4s will be cheap, and people will use those, so the MP5 will become dirt cheap, so the people will start buying the MP5...
(Of course, this implies that people will want to replace their pistols as soon as they can)
Not that I really play CS:S that much, but I see some see-sawing prices in the future.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wont probably just become dirt cheap over night, I doubt it will change from expensive to dirt cheap in 1 week, else I'll be disappointed in valve.
Oh, it was broke, they might as well have taken out anything but the colt,ak,deagle and awp..
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Too-true.
Although, I like knife kills most of all <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Oh, it was broke, they might as well have taken out anything but the colt,ak,deagle and awp..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bah whenever i played on a server where someone kept frequently using the AWP i would leave. in a way that gun just seems too cheap for me.
This is blown way out of proportion!
All they really did was make the ###### weapons and equipment cheaper and the better ones slightly more expensive to promote a more versatile use of the weapons in game.
I really don't see the changes adversly affecting CS:S gameplay in the slightest.
This is blown way out of proportion!
All they really did was make the ###### weapons and equipment cheaper and the better ones slightly more expensive to promote a more versatile use of the weapons in game.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It does effect the gameplay, it effects the buy strategies for competitive teams, and the buy strategies make a big difference. That being said, having different pricing isn't something competitive players are against for the most part, it's just having a pricing system that is not constant from match to match they they have a problem with, and with the svar to turn it off it will not be a problem.
The cvar will cut down on the whining at least a bit, but the global s***-fit was goddamn hilarious when it was initially announced, honestly.
Then again, these are the kind of people who believe there is One Right Way to play a game.. I suppose it would be just a little upsetting to have your world turned upside down every week, and actually have the game evolve and change for greater balance.
In any case, here's hoping they force-update the closed servers to market values every three months or so. Should allow for global trend purchasing to balance the game (even through the actions of pubbers, ew ew ew gross blargh idiots etc.) and still let the clanners set up their One True Way and stick to it for a season.
The cvar will cut down on the whining at least a bit, but the global s***-fit was goddamn hilarious when it was initially announced, honestly.
Then again, these are the kind of people who believe there is One Right Way to play a game.. I suppose it would be just a little upsetting to have your world turned upside down every week, and actually have the game evolve and change for greater balance. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1568197:date=Sep 27 2006, 03:28 PM:name=Epidemic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Epidemic @ Sep 27 2006, 03:28 PM) [snapback]1568197[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Oh, it was broke, they might as well have taken out anything but the colt,ak,deagle and awp.. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1567864:date=Sep 25 2006, 11:53 AM:name=Black_Mage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black_Mage @ Sep 25 2006, 11:53 AM) [snapback]1567864[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> i think the problem is cs
get rid of cs, get rid of the problem! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->QFT
God, I loath CS so very much... still, it's one of the few games in which I've ever been invited to a clan in. [Greatest part is, an aquaintence of mine (Friend of a former friend, I hated his guts really...)] was on the same server, and thought he was all that... then this guy invites me to his clan, and the "friend" of mine basically ****s his pants about it for the rest of the day.
Still amuses me.
It's just exceedingly simple, and the hitboxes became seemingly more watermellon headed in source. (When 90% of the kills in a round are head shots... on a low skill pub...)
I'd much rather play NS or even TFC or Dys...
Edit: I suppose I should mention I much prefer playing a supporting role in a game. In Dys I hack, NS I build structures and cover people... TFC I heavy... but usually I end up defencive... (Although the next most common role I play is Engy...)
It might be simple on the surface, and you can just join a server and shoot people, but its completely different in high level clanplay
Oh, and the update doesn't really matter because of the cvar. I personally think it's pretty dumb since the weapons themselves aren't balanced, but servers can pick and choose what they want.
You can track the weapons market on the steam website:
<a href="http://steampowered.com/stats/csmarket/" target="_blank">http://steampowered.com/stats/csmarket/</a>
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1568197:date=Sep 27 2006, 01:28 PM:name=Epidemic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Epidemic @ Sep 27 2006, 01:28 PM) [snapback]1568197[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Oh, it was broke, they might as well have taken out anything but the colt,ak,deagle and awp..
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha, so true.
According to the weapon prices, only the colt, ak, armor and deagle have risen in price. Meaning nearly 90% of all players just use those weapons. The awp is used the most by snipers(obviously), but the majority of people rather use something else besides a sniper rifle.
I wouldn't be surprise if people still only use those weapons if they're 6-8k+ in price, I mean it's not that hard to get money. Most servers have 20-30 minute maps, and it only takes a few rounds to get enough money.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
God, I loath CS so very much... still, it's one of the few games in which I've ever been invited to a clan in. [Greatest part is, an aquaintence of mine (Friend of a former friend, I hated his guts really...)] was on the same server, and thought he was all that... then this guy invites me to his clan, and the "friend" of mine basically ****s his pants about it for the rest of the day.
Still amuses me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been invited to clans in CS as well, it's pretty easy process actually. Join a regular pub server, get a decent K:D ratio, someone will invite you.
I only see two types of clans in a regular CS pub: 1. Clans that invite anyone, and end up dying a week later. 2. Clan with many jerks that like to flame people as well as say many statements of them owning things.
For you people that think CS is complex, I suppose you can say this will add more complexity to the game and allow for more strategies. You now won't be able to get your favourite guns all the time.
You now won't be able to get your favourite guns all the time.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
incorrect, i will be able to dualrush even more using the market prices.
You shouldn't be considered "professional" or "competitive" if you can't adapt. Valve isn't tweaking maps (CPL already has custom ones) or weapons, merely strategy.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh stop talking about adapting. Competetive gamers are still better. Is it ridiculous for them to enjoy the game the way it is? Look at how many people complained (and still are complaining) about NS: Combat. Hey, why didn't you guys adapt! Look at how many people complained about the Veteran program. Adapt!!!
Strictly speaking I'm sure the competitive teams could adapt to different pricing every week, however it wouldn't be as fun a game to play and it would ruin some teams that would play much better if they didn't have to do it, it wouldn't be as fun a game to keep on top of since teams would constantly be complaining about loosing due to money circumstances they didn't anticipate. The higher the level of play the more predeveloped, you don't want to see teams having to second guess their season's by strategies, you want to see them honing what is familiar to perfection.
Competitive players can handle alot of static changes to a game, it doesn't take them insanely long to recrunch the numbers, play with things the first few scrims and matches and figure out what strats you will be developing for the next season, it's not as fun but you do it because you want to win and if you can figure out that strategic edge over everyone else you're one step ahead. Static changes are tolerable to competitive players, but frankly it's just stupid to expect them to like dynamic changes.
Also, CS:S killed competetive CS:S. The game sucks <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
it's amazing how much of a difference it is playing 1.6 after css.
haha thats true
it's amazing how much of a difference it is playing 1.6 after css.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1.6 seems easier to me for some reason.
I know its supposed to be the other way around...but for me, playing 1.6 after CSS was alot easier.