<!--quoteo(post=1575948:date=Nov 11 2006, 06:32 PM:name=Nero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nero @ Nov 11 2006, 06:32 PM) [snapback]1575948[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> even Onos doens´t give me terror when i saw them. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You lie! An Onos inspires fear and awe, especially among the marines. If you're not scared, you're going to be the guy standing still, in the middle of the corridor, firing his LMG and screaming warcries, which then commences being eaten alive.
I was watching tv today and the matrix series was on so i watched a little. Then for some reason NS came to mind when that sentinel was ripping the ship to get in <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I kinda like the art style of the "real world" in the matrix, nice blue hues with lots of industrialist things while still keeping very techy
So i did a little research and found the concept art for that <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
specifically this one <a href="http://www.ghull.com/art/reloaded/reloaded_07.php" target="_blank">http://www.ghull.com/art/reloaded/reloaded_07.php</a>
Also lighting is important and when it comes to Lighting for futuristic settings and whatnot i always thought levente peterffy was pretty good at it. His portfolio is at <a href="http://www.leventep.com/" target="_blank">http://www.leventep.com/</a> good stuff there
One thing that i really loved about the original style of Natural selection is the contrast between Machine and Organic. Its obvious that the marines rely on machines for them to succeed and i loved that industrial look while the aliens would be more infectious and would use primitive and chemical abilities to reach their goal. I would love to see acid corrosion and lots mechanical rust/damage near the aliens <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
One thing to keep in mind, and I believe you touched on it in the blog Flayra, is that a dark environment creates great atmosphere, but it's very easy to make it so dark that it interferes with gameplay. Ns_Veil is an excellent example of how to do this correctly. The marine start area is extremely well lit, and seeing alien lifeforms is easy. Contrast this with the Power Sub Junction area of Computer Core, the crucial middle hive. It's dark, marines are half-blind, and the advantage is given to aliens with their flashlight. If the entirety of the map was as dark as PSJ, marines would be in bad shape from the start.
There's more to it than just gameplay though. Dying because you couldn't see the alien is frustrating, and this affects popularity greatly, both of the map and of the game itself. World of Warcraft is an excellent example of an inviting atmosphere, and part of it's popularity is directly related to that. It makes use of a broad color palette and is well lit. Of the starting areas in WoW, the undead one is quite dreary. It's almost entirely deserted, in spite of undead being one of the more popular races in the game. On the map level, in NS, we can see it quite easily. Ns_Eclipse, Ns_Tanith, Ns_Veil are all quite well lit, in most places of the map. They're also quite popular. Ns_Lost, Ns_Agora, and other darker maps are less popular. It's not a strict rule, there are many other factors that affect popularity of course, but it plays a part.
When you have new players trying out NS2 for the first time, having them take a look at the screenshots and walking away depressed isn't going to bring in new players. Most people play games to have fun.
On the subject of lifeforms, and how scary to make them look. In some ways, it doesn't matter how they look. When i'm building a PG with a JP, and I see an Onos round the corner, I get scared running away. But it has little to do with how the onos looks, and everything to do with knowing that if that onos catches me, I'm going to get devoured and killed. Beyond a certain level of believability (pink polka-dotted onos, for example) then the specifics of how the life-forms look isn't all that important. This is of course from the perspective of a long-time player, who knows the game. For a new player just coming into NS2, the visual aspect of fear may be more relevant, but beyond first impressions I think it loses it's impact.
<!--quoteo(post=1577065:date=Nov 14 2006, 02:46 PM:name=Slink)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Slink @ Nov 14 2006, 02:46 PM) [snapback]1577065[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> One thing to keep in mind, and I believe you touched on it in the blog Flayra, is that a dark environment creates great atmosphere, but it's very easy to make it so dark that it interferes with gameplay. Ns_Veil is an excellent example of how to do this correctly. The marine start area is extremely well lit, and seeing alien lifeforms is easy. Contrast this with the Power Sub Junction area of Computer Core, the crucial middle hive. It's dark, marines are half-blind, and the advantage is given to aliens with their flashlight. If the entirety of the map was as dark as PSJ, marines would be in bad shape from the start. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with what you're saying; but only if NS2 were being made on the Half-Life engine. I think that if mappers go the same route with really bright maps on a more powerful engine, it may actually turn out worse for the immersion factor. Sure, it was fine with the HL engine: it having no shaders and being very limiting in terms of brushwork in maps; but I don't think people will feel immersed in the same way on the Source engine.
The lighting effects are more powerful in Source, and models do react better to contrasting light levels, so it would work better in Source than it did in Goldsrc.
However, that doesn't cover the point of gameplay. I think a crucial factor in the actual way games play nowadays, is the immersion factor. Creating a believable atmosphere with these brand-spanking new engines also gives great gameplay. It simply gets your heart pounding more, which = adrenaline, which = excitement! The HL engine just wasn't that scary in dark lighting situations; Source can be.
NS was greatly balanced 'till severall Marines started cranking and literaly where able to see in the pitch black. As a result, the overall Gamma was increased, which heavily nerfed Alien Gameplay and every Class' Tactic needed to change from Ambushing to Hit and Run. I hope that it turns out better this time...
@Rendy this Images are realy a fine bunch of Concepts..! Sidenote: Who is that bear? I have seen it somewhere already O_o
I wonder if at least for the aliens they could get a chamilion like ability where if they were in the dark they become partially or if really dark, totally invisible (or recolor themselves to the surroundings) dependant on the light level in the map. That way not even the highest gamma setting on your monitor will make them visible, sure all your vents might look bright grey/white and the game look generally poor, but you still wouldn't see the enemy. Might require some balancing, but it might be a way to bring back the atmosphere and original intent for the gameplay without having to cater to half assed players exploiting certain aspects.
Rendy_CZechLife is a KoanJoin Date: 2003-10-11Member: 21608Members
<!--quoteo(post=1577288:date=Nov 15 2006, 03:46 AM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RobB @ Nov 15 2006, 03:46 AM) [snapback]1577288[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Sidenote: Who is that bear? I have seen it somewhere already O_o <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its PedoBär from 4chan <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
ah, I knew it. Being Pervert is bad, you know? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
It would be great if walls would look like Aliens AVP (alien Vs predator) movie and the infestation covering could be like aliens the movie (the 1st one)
Considering the usage of a new engine, some maps could be created to be outdoors. Since NS suggests that aliens are allways defending them selfs (this could also be changed according to map) some old looking structures (kind of like the AVP movie, dark and Stone built) could be done to change the usual Ship like appearence.
I couldn't find any good still image of the movie to support my point of view, but If you saw the movie, you can understand me (and my english)
NS could also use some Stargate Atlantis like structure types. Maybe the interior of a hive ship or something that could be accessed from and outside small base.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
The main problem with outdoor enviroments is putting a sky in place that lerks and JP's don't suddenly hit on their way up. That would be incredibly unrealistic, although a poisonous gas layer that slowly kills health as people fly into it could help solve that issue..
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron III - Rebel Strike (2003), LucasArts Star Wars: Episode I - Battle for Naboo (2001), LucasArts Star Wars: Rogue Squadron II - Rogue Leader (2001), LucasArts Entertainment Company LLC Star Wars: Starfighter (2001), LucasArts Star Wars: Episode I - Racer (1999), LucasArts Entertainment Company LLC Grim Fandango (1998), LucasArts Star Wars: Rogue Squadron 3D (1998), LucasArts Star Wars: Masters of Teräs Käsi (1997), LucasArts Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire (1996), Nintendo of America Inc. The Dig (1995), LucasArts Entertainment Company LLC Star Wars: Rebel Assault II - The Hidden Empire (1995), LucasArts Entertainment Company LLC
Couldn't find a personal website or scetches though. But i have some of him in a book.
I'm thinking that lighting may be less of a problem with things like HDR, Dynamic shadows...
Remember how awesome the pitch-black section of episode 1 was? Imagine that situation in NS - playing with the 'rines by sending physics objects tumbling all over the place...
SidCorwid of the FreeJoin Date: 2003-01-28Member: 12903Members, Constellation
Why not just use what NS has currently? I like NS because it has it's own feel to it. Each map has a very... dark and gloomy feel. Something that I wouldn't want to be wandering alone on. It reminds me a lot of the Nostromo from 'Aliens', in a way. I can't really compare it to anything else, NS has it's own feel to it. The atmosphere is great in this game, it really immerses the player.
If it's not broken, don't fix it? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<a href="http://www.whatisbroken.com/JPEG_CONCEPT_ART/CONCEPT_ART1.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.whatisbroken.com/JPEG_CONCEPT_A...ONCEPT_ART1.jpg</a> what i see here is a decently abandoned instaliation on a desert like planten, ntoice the copious amounts of blown in sand
hum jp 2, if there where ever to be out side maps wow
LOTS OF RAIN, mud, heaps of thick scrub, alienesck think scrub, grass so high rines cant see whats sneaking up on them, grass so high that if aliens duck or arnt jumping fro mteh top veiw you cant see there trails
a few things i would love to see prolly not possable with current engine's
tracks in mud, sand, snow, not perminate but semi perminate the best of detail, a huge partical effect side that yes also involves blood, but not just blood i want it to involve all forms of none lasting detail, bullet shells, shrapnel, acid, tenticals, as aliens exspand so does hive mess, it needs to be adaptable as well to its suroundings, if a marine die drops his gun alien gunk should consume said gun at least make it harder for his comrades to see and pick up, and when they pick up that gun it should have gunk and hive mess still on it, it should have a chance to jam, scratches on walls from alien movement, players shouldn't have to look at mini map motion tracking, they should beable to see some lasting wear and tear on the map and find regular used routes tracks, aliens shoudlnt require scent of fear to see a marine is hideing behind that box, he shoudl beable to see lasting trama on the walls around his end of the fire fight and know which general direction said marines are hideing / bunkering down
the thing that grossly engagde me in ns was the fact that the aliens with the skins looked like there where unquie every single one of them the hive pops out looked unique in some way, over time the effect wore off HR gigger and the aliens in the speal berk movies they are not unique, they are a mirror image on each side each alien that pops out of a human is exsackly like the next, yes there latter became more versions as comic's toys pushed the designs to the limits, bull alien, gorrila, and so on but each gorrila alien looked essackly like the next.
in ns the sulks looked like they could of had different facial features different spikes that varied from one sulk to the next, now i am not talking a the option to pick your sulks look from some game menu, i am talking about every time you spawn your sulks body randomly select one of 50 diff eye types, a diff snout, a tottaly diff spike set up, it can varie from arm to arm each side of body, so that every sulk is diff, there then should be a diff type look feel to a sulk if he upgrades or gets hive two, his HUD could even endure minor changes as he leaps thru the air, i wanan see 50 sulks lined up and not have one of them look exsackly like another, and to complete the illusion the hive muck or creep on the walls needs to fill same said illusion so so that a camoflarge effect will happen
you dont need 50 variations to begin with, but you need to write the code, bullet point said bit of code so that with each patch you can increase the number so that each patch you can add a few more variations for each body part, it could be the same body parts but instead of sharp spikes have war torn spikes,
and yes life exspectancy and battle scares should apear on said sulk as he goes along becomes more and more damaged and heals, the tenth odd conscutive kill he should gain a resonable size upgrade, a bulkie ness
if some one could write a almost free thinking code that upgraded kharaa as they play to there play style if some one takes as many and all fast silent quike moveing upgrades, the alien should recive some graphcal and pyshical changes to it to make it look like a fast alien and if you have two fast aliens they should always look different from one another
of a code could be writen the modifyed looks and game mechanics as the player played said style you would have a ever changeing ever evolving enamy that would scare the ish out of you
honoustly you wouldnt see 6 sulks jumping down a corridor you would see a twisting wall of spikes you would not beable to tell where one sulk began and another one ended
it would be like stomping around a bull ants nest then looking down its hole if you made 20 right sulk eyes, 20 left sulk eyes, mirrored them, then wrote a randomality code to pick one of each eye apon each spawn you would already have about 600 possable unique combanations purly for eyes, you wouldnt have to start off with that many you could start off with five and two patches latter add another 3 a patch latter another 2, build on it
the other option is a second life appearance menu, but have it randomly set each slider each time you respawn, have diff sliders that randomly increase as you get perticular weapons, or decrease if you get others
marines should get het same but in a sence it wouldnt be the same, the human is mirrored, but should pop out with different features, rough cloth style diff items on there utility belt guns should vaire on rust, shineyness, paint maybe, newness, oiled
maps need to in certin areas force marines into rather close quatars, aliens shouldnt always have to control the vents, marines shouldnt easyly beable to walk around and gain control of entire long and wide corridors cos they have the big bad ranged weapons
alien towers and structures, i would like to see, be more aware of their suroundings, spike towers if near and on hive creep, if they are set up to spread hive creep they should sink into the creep for the most part and rise up evolve as they start fireing, instead of looking like weird objects spawned randomly out of place, they should look liveing feel liveing, marine comes around courner, the entire corridor should become alive and buzzing with activity, aliens should know of this and when they get there marine of no marine there should still be some buzz left
bandaged med kited marines should leave tempary trails of dispersed and disposed of med kits, broken saringes parts of bandage, casings torn open, links from ammo chains, empty clips,
i would love to see active maps, aliens get thrid hive, said space ship map is built on suddenly losses thrust as it hoves above said planet and twist and crashes down to the ground on its side the entire map should then become the aliens play thing, gravity changs as the entire map turns structures fall over roll, clcik to stand up right, map now suddenly becomes exstreamly hard for marines to navigate, obiously if this was to happen maps would be designed so that vents would then give acess and so on, boosts would be requrie jet packs would still give them some play room
timers on maps before structural intrgirity begins to fail, slowly peice by peice random scripts fire off blocking paths, forceing communication, between players on both sides to anounce and rerougte there new found tunnels or death trap dead ends
safe zones that almost garrentee survival for at least one side, it doesnt have to be every hive it doesnt ahve to be every 5th room for marines to relocate to, it doesnt have ot be every map but it would be nice on a combat map to spawn as a marine and know that in your hanger bay over head are two roof mounted 3 barrled ossalating senternay guns, it would be nice to know that three maps down the track the aliens get the same and have a some pawn locations in a twisted pit of acid that doesnt hurt them but hurts marines
make the enviroment seam alive, make some out door ish maps, this is the war its not the begining, its not the first encounter
<!--quoteo(post=1575693:date=Nov 10 2006, 07:49 PM:name=CoolCookieCooks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CoolCookieCooks @ Nov 10 2006, 07:49 PM) [snapback]1575693[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> For this, I recommend looking at other games made on the Source Engine such as Dark Messiah and HL2 Episode 1 for their great use of shaders and graphical effects. These teams use the shaders to great use and even some upcoming projects such as HL2 Episode 2 is definitely worth a look at. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. It does keep pretty well with the artistic "flavor" of NS in my mind too.
Read what NEX9 said please, he has several great ideas that I agree with strongly.
I'd love having infestation "grow" The mycelium growth give a bit more of a real feel to the game, better for immersion and admirable aesthetics.
May i recommend the <a href="http://conceptart.org/forums" target="_blank">concept art forums</a> as well. they have a rather neat little ongoing contest in the its finaly fininshed forum that should make for some interesting viewing.
I am very surprised that nobody mentioned the Alien film series. Here are some photos of Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection:
EDIT: The site does not allow hot linking, so please copy and paste the urls to your web browser.
<a href="http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/AlienResurrection/movie.fs/17.jpg" target="_blank">http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/...movie.fs/17.jpg</a> (Look at the corridor behind)
<a href="http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/AlienResurrection/movie.ws/02.jpg" target="_blank">http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/...movie.ws/02.jpg</a> (Space station similar to NS style)
<a href="http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/AlienResurrection/movie.ws/03.jpg" target="_blank">http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/...movie.ws/03.jpg</a> (Look at the gratings on the floor. This is NS style)
Photos above are taken from: <a href="http://outnow.ch/Media/Img/1997/AlienResurrection/" target="_blank">http://outnow.ch/Media/Img/1997/AlienResurrection/</a>
One more Alien 3 photo from imdb.com <a href="http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0103644/Ss/0103644/IMG0099.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0103644" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0103644/Ss/...ath_key=0103644</a>
My comment on the concepts that are shown in the blog entry: 1) Solaris concept (the first one in the entry) seems to be okay for NS setting. 2) Battlestar Galactica is too plain compared to our expectations from NS2 concept. 3) Craig Mullins' work is really amazing, but a bit too complicated and not that suitable enough for game performance and gameplay.
<!--quoteo(post=1577970:date=Nov 16 2006, 10:26 PM:name=MrBomb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrBomb @ Nov 16 2006, 10:26 PM) [snapback]1577970[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I am very surprised that nobody mentioned the Alien film series. Here are some photos of Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What do you think did H.G. Giger, huh? He's multiple Oscarwinner for the Aliencostumes and Environtment Design! You should read what other People write before your write LIES!
<!--quoteo(post=1577970:date=Nov 16 2006, 10:26 PM:name=MrBomb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrBomb @ Nov 16 2006, 10:26 PM) [snapback]1577970[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I am very surprised that nobody mentioned the Alien film series. Here are some photos of Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection: <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well, being on a sci fi game forum one would think it's obvious people have seen the alien films. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
If not, they should be banned and can only rejoin when they take an alien exam.
<!--quoteo(post=1577970:date=Nov 16 2006, 04:26 PM:name=MrBomb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrBomb @ Nov 16 2006, 04:26 PM) [snapback]1577970[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I am very surprised that nobody mentioned the Alien film series. Here are some photos of Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection: <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I did it, look at my post hehe <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
if your going to be using the hl2 engine you won't get a life like look so why not go with it do a manga / cartoon style.
Anyone seen that apple seed movie ? The objects are simple but look great, its all about style. Yet things can still look intense or scary without being gory. Thats what NS is about being atmospheric but not necessarily horror as to keep it open to a wide audience. I wouldnt neccesarry do a cellshaded look, but just something stylish and fresh looking.
<!--quoteo(post=1578086:date=Nov 17 2006, 03:10 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(schkorpio @ Nov 17 2006, 03:10 AM) [snapback]1578086[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> if your going to be using the hl2 engine you won't get a life like look so why not go with it do a manga / cartoon style.
Anyone seen that apple seed movie ? The objects are simple but look great, its all about style. Yet things can still look intense or scary without being gory. Thats what NS is about being atmospheric but not necessarily horror as to keep it open to a wide audience. I wouldnt neccesarry do a cellshaded look, but just something stylish and fresh looking. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting you should say that, I would have said the Source engine is by far the most cabable engine around at the moment at creating realistic environments. ALL current engines can have photorealistic textures, fairly high detail models with normal maps, but where Source destroys the competition is the prerended lightmaps. No other engine seems to have the realistic light bouncing and raytraced effect source has. (though this obviously has some major downsides, like the lack of dynamic shadows etc)
Having said that I wouldn't mind seeing NS veer away a little from any "realistic" impression of a futuristic environment, I'd personally like to see it end up a little more like some of the impressive si-fi artwork you see around, sort of everything being accentuated a little. Manga/cartoon style definately doesn't appeal however to me.
Hello! Nice to see the site is up and NS2 is on its way. NS certainly is one of the best mods around, even though I haven't really played it after v 3.0.
Below is a link to the photographs of Joe Nishizawa. Basically this guy goes to huge Japanese underground places, spaces and construction projects and takes photos. They probably wouldn't fit NS as such, but could be a source of inspiration. They're usually of larger spaces than usually are found in NS, but why shouldn't NS2 contain bigger spaces as well? Think of the scene in The Lord of the Rings: FotR where they're escaping the orcs in the huge pillar hall... marines retreating in an only partially lighted huge storage space, mutant doggies crawling in the roof and walls, spikes flying from somewhere far away...
Linky link link: <a href="http://joe-nishizawa.jp/G/g_t.html" target="_blank">http://joe-nishizawa.jp/G/g_t.html</a>
As for what I, personally, would like to see in Natural Selection 2! Well! Here we go:
- The lighting style in general could follow along the footsteps of NS1, Aliens vs Predator 2... however, I'm sure HDR could be used to some effect. Would it be possible to create huge floodlights, for example, that would all but blind the player looking at them? Such an effect could be used for gameplay mechanics as well - have the commander/marines install a high-intensity floodlight at an outpost to illuminate a dark hallway, as well as impair skulks rushing at them. Also, plenty of sci-fi/horror hilms (well, some Alien films, at least <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />) use strobe lighting, sometimes even multi-colored. There's no sense why there should be strobe lights on spaceships - which probably are dangerous working enviroments in any case - but it's just so damn effective psychologically! Don't dismiss the strobes! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
- Special effects! Have a look at the Source mod Hidden. Good mod, by the way - reminds me of my 1 pred vs 8 marines servers on AvP2 - except I suck at Hidden. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> And it's got majorly good athmospheric music on the background as well. Ah, sorry, thoughts trailing. Anyway, Some maps in Hidden have grates on the floor/ground, with warm air coming up, so there's a rippling air effect. Which is cool, especially considering you're trying to look for the ripple effect of the Hidden and might end up shooting up at thin - although rippling - air. Also... STEAM! NS2 needs STEAM! Geddit? lol am I not funny or what? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> Anyway, another aesthetic effect that could also be part of the gameplay mechanics would be steam pumping outta valves periodically. Or, maybe even almost-chaotic amounts of steam - combine those with flabbergasting audio ambiences and the strobe lights mentioned above and you've got a nerve-wracking situation! omgthelightsareallflickeryandtomakethingsworsethatdamnsteamisobstructingmyvisionisthataskulkthereomgomg!
- The critters, then. I, for one, am for updating the Kharaa style. Actually, overall, two of my favourite sci-fi FPS games, NS and AvP2, had/have somewhat cartoony graphics. I dunno - this might be due to engine limitation as well, sorta. Anyway, this should be "improved" (in quotes to imply that cartoony doesn't mean inherently bad) on. Think... Battlestar Galactica (1978) vs. Battlestar Galactica (200x) but with a way more subtle difference. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> Think TMNT cartoon vs. the original TMNT graphic novels. Also, while it's great that you get to play with and against lots of <b>different</b> aliens, IMO it somehow seems to work against the "believability" of the Kharaa. This effect sort of might be reduced with more uniformity in Kharaa design - even if only applies to skinning - like making them coloured more similar. The bacterial spots on them are probably intended for this but somehow they just don't do the trick for me. Of course there's loads of things to consider regarding that as well, like gameplay and balance issues I'm not even aware of (I dunno - easier to see a red onos charging at you than a brown one? =D). Make 'em menacing. Evil! Have at least one model without eyes! Aliens without eyes are scary! Look what happened to the Newborn in Alien Resurrection - he got eyes. Scary? Hell no. Oh, and have the Lerk be the eyeless model just for the controversity of it, give it a super sonar instead. The Fade's got tht praying mantis thing going on - he might look scarier with bony feet like the skulk's. Make his animation a bit wobbly so that it actually looks like he's not entirely in balance but of course he is. Or how about adding a second set of bony feet? 6 limbs in total? Make the mantis thing even more obvious, but might look freaky. And Onos looks so much like a real life bull it works against the "aliens" part of the game. Doom 3's Pinky Demon is an example of a charging boar/bull type of enemy that's still distinctly alien/demonic/evil/a monster and whatnot - so make a model with a stance more similar to that - is the word haunched? Sorry, English isn't my 1st language. Add horns (maybe even four or six, aimed at different directions? Wouldn't have to have a gameplay effect, just for visuals), a bigger mouth for gulping marines, small, beady eyes, a visible headbone for ramming similar to NS1 Onos. etc etc. Oh, did the Onos have "rastas" or something like that? Keep those.
- Ahh, the colours. These have been mentioned in context of the lighting. Anyways, my opinion: Try to keep the amount of overall colours low. This has to be done carefully, of course, to avoid making boring areas. But what I'm after here is this: What colours do I remember from Aliens? Blue, red - blue in most areas, sometimes with a red light. Alien^3? Brown (yellowish?). Resurrection? Brown. So I remember certain colours - might be a little off, actually, but the point is that I don't remember a whole range of colours. And of course I don't mean "remove every speck of bright red from this map" - I mean "have areas, even whole maps have a strong theme and stick with it."
Damn, I write long posts, don't I? Hope they're not pointless posts. Anyways, those were my opinions (even though at some point it looks like I'm trying to TELL you to do things my way - of course tht's not true) and I just have one more. This one's the master opinion that applies to almost all areas - modelling, skinning/texture work, overall atmosphere - sound as well even though this is a visual thread:
i like your atmosphere suggestions, strobe's will make for a excelent addition freeze frame sulk get burned into your retina right before your throat gets torn out the last thing you see are teeth
or drive by sulk scurys past you take a chunk out of your leg and keeps running your about to take aim huge vent bets bitten out hall fills with masses of steam sulk lives to bite another day
yes lighting and colors are very important when it comes to setting atmosphere and the yshoud lall follow a genral key and feel to said map and area, transitions in colors are uslay always boarded but ther are rare cases as with warnings and things
ho ever you are entitled to your opinion but i really must disagree with your critter suggestions, kahraa are space bacteria, tiny little metors may rapture the hull of a ship and next thing you know a huge infestation begins to form in the stagnate of the hull
the one thing that is certain about bacteria is its always evolving, modern medicine almost never can catch up with viruses and bacteria these days
this is a bacteria not even nannites can qwell with out assisstance every form every alien in ns and ns2 should look unique, it should have miss matching ill shapen eyes on some beast sit shoud lahve variang spiek paterns from limb to limb some times bacteria us ever evolving to achinve the next best thing to consume what threatens it
the one alien that seams out side of the common kahraa rules in color and markings seams to be the fade and i truely aggree its needs the color scheme and the bacteria camo look that blends in with creep like the rest do, it doesnt have enough, the onos altho red, has enough and can get away with it
<!--quoteo(post=1578637:date=Nov 19 2006, 01:40 PM:name=NEX9)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NEX9 @ Nov 19 2006, 01:40 PM) [snapback]1578637[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> ho ever you are entitled to your opinion but i really must disagree with your critter suggestions, kahraa are space bacteria,
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Ah. I forgot about this part of the story. So bearing this in mind, it is sort of logical that the different creatures really look diverse.
The way I see it is to first establish an proper NS environement, you have to first re-examine the idea behind NS : a futuristic battle between marines and aliens. Next, expand that idea as if you were a movie writter. You have to elaborate a story before the starting point of the movie to help you decide what would be the environment of that movie.
Every map has a starting hive and a command chair. If you assume that the aliens had their location for a while and that the marines barely just arrived (since they have no other equipment then the CC), then lets concentrate on the aliens. After all, I think the atmosphere will be more on a marine environment influenced by the presence of aliens after a while. Now lets elaborate on the presence of aliens and how it should affect the surroundings.
Alien elaboration - Since aliens have one hive at the start, we will assume they got there first and for quite some times - Since they were there first and had no knowledge of humans or ennemies, that would explain why at the start of a game, there are no defenses. Just a hive and basic alien forms. - Now with aliens having no ennemies, no defenses, what have they been doing before the marines came ? Exploring for the purpose of finding new ressources and scouting - To explore, they can simply use the same path as normal humans would do but since the alien population is mainly composed of skulk, they can walk on walls and ceillings. Therefore, wouldn't it be logical to assume that in order to explore other rooms not normaly accessible (like locked doors), that they would use ventilation openings or create theire own openings ? - for ventilation openings, that means that some of them would have had their gratings riped out or damaged in some way to indicate someone tried/successfuly opened it - for any kinds of openings that are not ventilation related, we could think of pannels (walls, ceillings, boxes, computers, ...) that were ripped out by force and therefore, causing damaged equipements or cables hanging out of it - you could also think of windows being scratched or broken to indicate other forced entries by aliens - aliens being curious about their new unknown environment, would surely start to examine small objects (I call them props) that are resting on tables or shelves. They would bite them, push them, test them and eventualy make them fall down. From a marine point of view, someone looking at such a place would think someone ravaged the place - Now we all know there is mucus growth in NS maps caused by the presence of aliens right ? The mucus starts at the original hive placement and grows outward. The greather the area covered by the mucus, the more it suggests the aliens were there for a longer period. Having great quantities of mucus and almost no environmental damaged caused by the aliens is to my opinion, non-realistic. Why would the aliens be there for weeks/months and not causing environmental damage ? - With the growth of the mucus, we would expect that it would cover electrical equipment or even lights. Therefore causing short cicuits (equipement not working or partialy working) and less light (either because they were covered or shorted out). This would also imply that the further away from the mucus you would go, the more normal the electrical surroundings would be. Unless it covered the main generator, causing major power failure through the place and because of that, emergency power/lights would turn on or having no/little lights at all. - Also, something I have realy never seen so far. How did the aliens came to this place ? We always see the hive and aliens but never see from where they came in. I would think they came from the outside and therfore forced their way in by either the ventilation shaft, main doors or windows. This has not been explored yet. Off course, having this would also imply that marines would be able to go outside through the same place aliens came in. Outside exploration should then have somekind of physicial limit to prevent aliens/marines to go to far away from the base. - Since they came from outside, it would be fair to assume that they didn't start explorations until the hive was built, therefore the surroundings of where they came through would be alien free. - I would assume that any alien ressource tower already built before the marines would come, would be very near the mucus growth or on top of it.
Now that we have explored the effect of aliens presence affecting the surroundings, this might give a better idea on how to create the visual look of the hive surroundings keeping in mind the relation between the mucus growth vs how long have the aliens been there.
Marine elaboration - If we take in account that the marines would come from the outside, a while after the aliens came, then it would be logicial that they would establish a command center in some room near the entrance or at a room looking like a command center. This also implies as we all know it from the start, that the only marine equipment present is the command chair. - The marine surroundings is presumably not affected by aliens (execpt for any forced entries the aliens had to do in order to penetrate the base). This also implies that there is power and functional equipments (unless the main power generator is down and surroundings is in emergency power only). - Having electricity at the marine side and assuming the main generator is not down, one could imagine somekind of visual warning sign that something is wrong. That could be either by an alarm sound or computer displays. If it is sound based, then the marines should be able to turn it off. - Nearby ressource towers could be built but if the marines just barely arrived, it would suggested they decided to build a ressource tower before an IP. Unless those ressource towers are not from the marines but from the previous habitants of the base. In that case, I would imagine the ressource tower model should be a bit different then the marines and aliens would have to be able to destroy it. - If we think about the marine side before they even came, you have to think about the previous habitants of the place. Were they there when the aliens arrived and if so, what happened once the aliens came ? Some visual indications has to be there to tell the marine somekind of message. - If there were habitants when the aliens came, then logicaly, some signs should indicate it. One very common one seen in movies is the cofees and donuts still around. Also, what kind of suggestions would there be about those habitants ? Have they been all killed ? Have they fled away ? To both, a panic would have surely happened and anyone knows that in a panic situation, things get dropped,tossed or abandoned. Some visual clues should be there to indicate that. If they were attacked/killed, where are the bodies ? Are there any bodies laying around ? If they managed to run away, then how ? Have they used somekind of gateway door leading to an escape ship/pod ? If so, shouldn't it be visible and accessible by everyone ? If they fled, did someone managed to turn on an alarm or send away a radio call yelling for help ? If so, shouldn't there be somkind of indications of that ? - If there were no habitants before the aliens came, then the base should have an abandoned look right ? How ? Usualy an abandoned place has papers, debris, waste everywhere. It should not be clean if it was abandoned. Maybe it is a base being constructed by robots and since there is no power in some places, then robots would be offline there ? If it was abandoned, then why ? Extensive damage to structural surroundings ? If so, would it be logical to visualy see those extensive damages ? Like collapsed corridors, structural metal beams dropped on the floor, inaccessible rooms, fire maybe ? - If the marines did not come from the outside (meaning from an entrance), then the only other possibility is that they came in through some portal technology. In that case, it should exist in the base, right ? If so, it would be locigical that after the marines came through it, they would deactivate it to prevent any ennemies to escape through it. - If the marines came from the outside, how did the come ? By ship, by ground vehicle ? If so, how about having them visible ? Off course, having them accessible implies they are not operational and that additional polygons are required. - Now how did the marines found out about this situation erging them to get there ? Again, the idea of an emergency radio message or alarm fits in. If both were not activated, then why did they came in the first place ? Some kind of clue has to be there. Maybe the lack of power in some areas somehow sent an automatic maintenance message to the marine main base ? - Being a human base, you have to think about if it is isolated from the rest of the planet or not. If it is, then logicaly, the base would have to provide all its habitants with every thing they need : food, sleeping, recreation, working, armory, repair shop, ... These would have to be existing but wouldn't mean they would have to be accessible (just a door with a sign maybe ?) - If the base was abandoned due to structural damages, then passages would have to be somehow blocked preventing marines to go through (unless they are able to weld theire way through !), then gameplay obligates other passages to be present so the marines can access the hive. - Also, if the base was abandoned due to structural damages, to remind the timer limit of the game and to add pressure, maybe the presence of somekind of timer to total destruction ? I always had this idea about a gameplay where before reching zero, some kind of action had to be done to prevent it. Aliens would optionaly prevent them from doing it. - Since alien presence also suggests power failure to some areas, you would expect to see jammed doors (opened or closed). THe usage of the welder would reverse the situation (allowing marines to go through or preventing aliens from coming through). It could also be a damaged room where welding would cause even more damage and therfore blocking the room. - The marine side environement would off course be well lightened (unless again, on emergency power or abandoned). If on emergency power, then just about all the map would have little light or none at all. Why have well lightened rooms if the whole base is on emergency power ? Also, why not give the possibility to repair/turn on a backup generator to turn on full light/electricty to all powerless/emergency powered areas ? - Having powerless areas and a non 2d type of base, places where a lift would normaly be used would have to have backup way of travelling (meaning ladders). If this is a concept design of the base itself, then all lifts would have to have ladders.
I'm running out of ideas on the marines side (and time since its been over an hour of writing this!) as the atmosphere is more on how the aliens affected the surroundings. Feel free to add other idea but think of it as if you were making a movie. You have to setup the environment accordingly to speak for themselves, they have to tell the audience what happened. Keep it realistic, that's how I thought of the whole thing (while writing my post !). Once you have established the surroundings, how it should look before the game actualy starts and how it should react once it starts, then all that is left to do is to build the map accordingly.
Comments
even Onos doens´t give me terror when i saw them.
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You lie! An Onos inspires fear and awe, especially among the marines. If you're not scared, you're going to be the guy standing still, in the middle of the corridor, firing his LMG and screaming warcries, which then commences being eaten alive.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tiny.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::onos::" border="0" alt="tiny.gif" />
On a completely unrelated note, keep the disgusting-goodness of the Onos's stomach intact! ^_^
I kinda like the art style of the "real world" in the matrix, nice blue hues with lots of industrialist things while still keeping very techy
So i did a little research and found the concept art for that <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<a href="http://www.ghull.com/art/reloaded/art_mtxrel_thumbs_01.php" target="_blank">http://www.ghull.com/art/reloaded/art_mtxrel_thumbs_01.php</a>
specifically this one
<a href="http://www.ghull.com/art/reloaded/reloaded_07.php" target="_blank">http://www.ghull.com/art/reloaded/reloaded_07.php</a>
Also lighting is important and when it comes to Lighting for futuristic settings and whatnot i always thought levente peterffy was pretty good at it. His portfolio is at <a href="http://www.leventep.com/" target="_blank">http://www.leventep.com/</a> good stuff there
One thing that i really loved about the original style of Natural selection is the contrast between Machine and Organic. Its obvious that the marines rely on machines for them to succeed and i loved that industrial look while the aliens would be more infectious and would use primitive and chemical abilities to reach their goal. I would love to see acid corrosion and lots mechanical rust/damage near the aliens <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<a href="http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1159401108529606mediumhq3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4969/1159401108529606mediumhq3.th.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>
<a href="http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1255221115078545zq6.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/5134/1255221115078545zq6.th.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>
<a href="http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=envfengimage45um8.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/4732/envfengimage45um8.th.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>
<a href="http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=envfengimage48yz8.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/9016/envfengimage48yz8.th.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>
<a href="http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=envfengimage53kr7.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/4834/envfengimage53kr7.th.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>
<a href="http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=envfengimage63bs2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6940/envfengimage63bs2.th.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>
<a href="http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=futureworld2byrudolfherto4.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2333/futureworld2byrudolfherto4.th.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>
There's more to it than just gameplay though. Dying because you couldn't see the alien is frustrating, and this affects popularity greatly, both of the map and of the game itself. World of Warcraft is an excellent example of an inviting atmosphere, and part of it's popularity is directly related to that. It makes use of a broad color palette and is well lit. Of the starting areas in WoW, the undead one is quite dreary. It's almost entirely deserted, in spite of undead being one of the more popular races in the game. On the map level, in NS, we can see it quite easily. Ns_Eclipse, Ns_Tanith, Ns_Veil are all quite well lit, in most places of the map. They're also quite popular. Ns_Lost, Ns_Agora, and other darker maps are less popular. It's not a strict rule, there are many other factors that affect popularity of course, but it plays a part.
When you have new players trying out NS2 for the first time, having them take a look at the screenshots and walking away depressed isn't going to bring in new players. Most people play games to have fun.
On the subject of lifeforms, and how scary to make them look. In some ways, it doesn't matter how they look. When i'm building a PG with a JP, and I see an Onos round the corner, I get scared running away. But it has little to do with how the onos looks, and everything to do with knowing that if that onos catches me, I'm going to get devoured and killed. Beyond a certain level of believability (pink polka-dotted onos, for example) then the specifics of how the life-forms look isn't all that important. This is of course from the perspective of a long-time player, who knows the game. For a new player just coming into NS2, the visual aspect of fear may be more relevant, but beyond first impressions I think it loses it's impact.
One thing to keep in mind, and I believe you touched on it in the blog Flayra, is that a dark environment creates great atmosphere, but it's very easy to make it so dark that it interferes with gameplay. Ns_Veil is an excellent example of how to do this correctly. The marine start area is extremely well lit, and seeing alien lifeforms is easy. Contrast this with the Power Sub Junction area of Computer Core, the crucial middle hive. It's dark, marines are half-blind, and the advantage is given to aliens with their flashlight. If the entirety of the map was as dark as PSJ, marines would be in bad shape from the start.
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I agree with what you're saying; but only if NS2 were being made on the Half-Life engine. I think that if mappers go the same route with really bright maps on a more powerful engine, it may actually turn out worse for the immersion factor. Sure, it was fine with the HL engine: it having no shaders and being very limiting in terms of brushwork in maps; but I don't think people will feel immersed in the same way on the Source engine.
The lighting effects are more powerful in Source, and models do react better to contrasting light levels, so it would work better in Source than it did in Goldsrc.
However, that doesn't cover the point of gameplay. I think a crucial factor in the actual way games play nowadays, is the immersion factor. Creating a believable atmosphere with these brand-spanking new engines also gives great gameplay. It simply gets your heart pounding more, which = adrenaline, which = excitement! The HL engine just wasn't that scary in dark lighting situations; Source can be.
Discuss!
As a result, the overall Gamma was increased, which heavily nerfed Alien Gameplay and every Class' Tactic needed to change from Ambushing to Hit and Run.
I hope that it turns out better this time...
@Rendy this Images are realy a fine bunch of Concepts..!
Sidenote: Who is that bear? I have seen it somewhere already O_o
<a href="http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1159401108529606mediumhq3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4969/1159401108529606mediumhq3.th.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>
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<3
That's an image a friend of mine did.
<a href="http://www.artpad.org/index.php?set_albumName=Digital-Paintings&id=aar&option=com_gallery&Itemid=58&include=view_photo.php" target="_blank">http://www.artpad.org/index.php?set_albumN...=view_photo.php</a>
Sidenote: Who is that bear? I have seen it somewhere already O_o
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Its PedoBär from 4chan <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Being Pervert is bad, you know? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Where do you got that Concepts from?
Considering the usage of a new engine, some maps could be created to be outdoors. Since NS suggests that aliens are allways defending them selfs (this could also be changed according to map) some old looking structures (kind of like the AVP movie, dark and Stone built) could be done to change the usual Ship like appearence.
I couldn't find any good still image of the movie to support my point of view, but If you saw the movie, you can understand me (and my english)
NS could also use some Stargate Atlantis like structure types. Maybe the interior of a hive ship or something that could be accessed from and outside small base.
<img src="http://www.ryanchurch.com/images/sw_ep3/feluciaFOREST.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
<img src="http://www.ryanchurch.com/images/personal/VERMIinteriorLINE_B.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
<img src="http://www.ryanchurch.com/images/sw_ep3/CGO20panDESIGN.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Paul Topolos is great too
worked on:
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron III - Rebel Strike (2003), LucasArts
Star Wars: Episode I - Battle for Naboo (2001), LucasArts
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron II - Rogue Leader (2001), LucasArts Entertainment Company LLC
Star Wars: Starfighter (2001), LucasArts
Star Wars: Episode I - Racer (1999), LucasArts Entertainment Company LLC
Grim Fandango (1998), LucasArts
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron 3D (1998), LucasArts
Star Wars: Masters of Teräs Käsi (1997), LucasArts
Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire (1996), Nintendo of America Inc.
The Dig (1995), LucasArts Entertainment Company LLC
Star Wars: Rebel Assault II - The Hidden Empire (1995), LucasArts Entertainment Company LLC
Couldn't find a personal website or scetches though. But i have some of him in a book.
Examples can be found here: <a href="http://206.145.80.239/zbc/featured2col.php" target="_blank">Zbrush central</a>
There is also a forum with all the artists.
<a href="http://206.145.80.239/zbc/showthread.php?t=037503" target="_blank">cave base</a>
<a href="http://206.145.80.239/zbc/showthread.php?t=037433" target="_blank">alien</a>
<a href="http://206.145.80.239/zbc/showthread.php?t=035945" target="_blank">alien 2</a>
Enough inspiration and proffesionals over there , check it out
Remember how awesome the pitch-black section of episode 1 was? Imagine that situation in NS - playing with the 'rines by sending physics objects tumbling all over the place...
Yummy.
If it's not broken, don't fix it? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<a href="http://www.whatisbroken.com/JPEG_CONCEPT_ART/CONCEPT_ART1.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.whatisbroken.com/JPEG_CONCEPT_A...ONCEPT_ART1.jpg</a>
what i see here is a decently abandoned instaliation on a desert like planten, ntoice the copious amounts of blown in sand
JP 2 lost world raptor scene skip to 1:13-16
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EPebB1bt5I" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EPebB1bt5I</a>
hum jp 2, if there where ever to be out side maps wow
LOTS OF RAIN, mud, heaps of thick scrub, alienesck think scrub, grass so high rines cant see whats sneaking up on them, grass so high that if aliens duck or arnt jumping fro mteh top veiw you cant see there trails
a few things i would love to see prolly not possable with current engine's
tracks in mud, sand, snow, not perminate but semi perminate the best of detail, a huge partical effect side that yes also involves blood, but not just blood i want it to involve all forms of none lasting detail, bullet shells, shrapnel, acid, tenticals, as aliens exspand so does hive mess, it needs to be adaptable as well to its suroundings, if a marine die drops his gun alien gunk should consume said gun at least make it harder for his comrades to see and pick up, and when they pick up that gun it should have gunk and hive mess still on it, it should have a chance to jam, scratches on walls from alien movement, players shouldn't have to look at mini map motion tracking, they should beable to see some lasting wear and tear on the map and find regular used routes tracks, aliens shoudlnt require scent of fear to see a marine is hideing behind that box, he shoudl beable to see lasting trama on the walls around his end of the fire fight and know which general direction said marines are hideing / bunkering down
the thing that grossly engagde me in ns was the fact that the aliens with the skins looked like there where unquie every single one of them the hive pops out looked unique in some way, over time the effect wore off
HR gigger and the aliens in the speal berk movies they are not unique, they are a mirror image on each side each alien that pops out of a human is exsackly like the next, yes there latter became more versions as comic's toys pushed the designs to the limits, bull alien, gorrila, and so on but each gorrila alien looked essackly like the next.
in ns the sulks looked like they could of had different facial features different spikes that varied from one sulk to the next, now i am not talking a the option to pick your sulks look from some game menu, i am talking about every time you spawn your sulks body randomly select one of 50 diff eye types, a diff snout, a tottaly diff spike set up, it can varie from arm to arm each side of body, so that every sulk is diff, there then should be a diff type look feel to a sulk if he upgrades or gets hive two, his HUD could even endure minor changes as he leaps thru the air, i wanan see 50 sulks lined up and not have one of them look exsackly like another, and to complete the illusion the hive muck or creep on the walls needs to fill same said illusion so so that a camoflarge effect will happen
you dont need 50 variations to begin with, but you need to write the code, bullet point said bit of code so that with each patch you can increase the number so that each patch you can add a few more variations for each body part, it could be the same body parts but instead of sharp spikes have war torn spikes,
and yes life exspectancy and battle scares should apear on said sulk as he goes along becomes more and more damaged and heals, the tenth odd conscutive kill he should gain a resonable size upgrade, a bulkie ness
if some one could write a almost free thinking code that upgraded kharaa as they play to there play style
if some one takes as many and all fast silent quike moveing upgrades, the alien should recive some graphcal and pyshical changes to it to make it look like a fast alien and if you have two fast aliens they should always look different from one another
of a code could be writen the modifyed looks and game mechanics as the player played said style you would have a ever changeing ever evolving enamy that would scare the ish out of you
honoustly you wouldnt see 6 sulks jumping down a corridor you would see a twisting wall of spikes you would not beable to tell where one sulk began and another one ended
it would be like stomping around a bull ants nest then looking down its hole
if you made 20 right sulk eyes, 20 left sulk eyes, mirrored them, then wrote a randomality code to pick one of each eye apon each spawn you would already have about 600 possable unique combanations purly for eyes, you wouldnt have to start off with that many you could start off with five and two patches latter add another 3 a patch latter another 2, build on it
the other option is a second life appearance menu, but have it randomly set each slider each time you respawn, have diff sliders that randomly increase as you get perticular weapons, or decrease if you get others
marines should get het same but in a sence it wouldnt be the same, the human is mirrored, but should pop out with different features, rough cloth style diff items on there utility belt guns should vaire on rust, shineyness, paint maybe, newness, oiled
maps need to in certin areas force marines into rather close quatars, aliens shouldnt always have to control the vents, marines shouldnt easyly beable to walk around and gain control of entire long and wide corridors cos they have the big bad ranged weapons
alien towers and structures, i would like to see, be more aware of their suroundings, spike towers if near and on hive creep, if they are set up to spread hive creep they should sink into the creep for the most part and rise up evolve as they start fireing, instead of looking like weird objects spawned randomly out of place, they should look liveing feel liveing, marine comes around courner, the entire corridor should become alive and buzzing with activity, aliens should know of this and when they get there marine of no marine there should still be some buzz left
bandaged med kited marines should leave tempary trails of dispersed and disposed of med kits, broken saringes parts of bandage, casings torn open, links from ammo chains, empty clips,
i would love to see active maps, aliens get thrid hive, said space ship map is built on suddenly losses thrust as it hoves above said planet and twist and crashes down to the ground on its side the entire map should then become the aliens play thing, gravity changs as the entire map turns structures fall over roll, clcik to stand up right, map now suddenly becomes exstreamly hard for marines to navigate, obiously if this was to happen maps would be designed so that vents would then give acess and so on, boosts would be requrie jet packs would still give them some play room
timers on maps before structural intrgirity begins to fail, slowly peice by peice random scripts fire off blocking paths, forceing communication, between players on both sides to anounce and rerougte there new found tunnels or death trap dead ends
safe zones that almost garrentee survival for at least one side, it doesnt have to be every hive
it doesnt ahve to be every 5th room for marines to relocate to, it doesnt have ot be every map
but it would be nice on a combat map to spawn as a marine and know that in your hanger bay over head are two roof mounted 3 barrled ossalating senternay guns, it would be nice to know that three maps down the track the aliens get the same and have a some pawn locations in a twisted pit of acid that doesnt hurt them but hurts marines
make the enviroment seam alive, make some out door ish maps, this is the war its not the begining, its not the first encounter
i know i ask a lot but heres looking at you NS 4
For this, I recommend looking at other games made on the Source Engine such as Dark Messiah and HL2 Episode 1 for their great use of shaders and graphical effects. These teams use the shaders to great use and even some upcoming projects such as HL2 Episode 2 is definitely worth a look at.
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I agree. It does keep pretty well with the artistic "flavor" of NS in my mind too.
Read what NEX9 said please, he has several great ideas that I agree with strongly.
I'd love having infestation "grow" The mycelium growth give a bit more of a real feel to the game, better for immersion and admirable aesthetics.
<img src="http://www.xzianthia.net/images/concept_cave.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
EDIT: The site does not allow hot linking, so please copy and paste the urls to your web browser.
<a href="http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/AlienResurrection/movie.fs/17.jpg" target="_blank">http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/...movie.fs/17.jpg</a> (Look at the corridor behind)
<a href="http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/AlienResurrection/movie.ws/02.jpg" target="_blank">http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/...movie.ws/02.jpg</a> (Space station similar to NS style)
<a href="http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/AlienResurrection/movie.ws/03.jpg" target="_blank">http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/...movie.ws/03.jpg</a> (Look at the gratings on the floor. This is NS style)
<a href="http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/AlienResurrection/movie.ws/11.jpg" target="_blank">http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/...movie.ws/11.jpg</a>
<a href="http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/AlienResurrection/movie.ws/26.jpg" target="_blank">http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/...movie.ws/26.jpg</a>
<a href="http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/AlienResurrection/movie.ws/32.jpg" target="_blank">http://media.outnow.ch/Movies/Images/1997/...movie.ws/32.jpg</a>
Photos above are taken from: <a href="http://outnow.ch/Media/Img/1997/AlienResurrection/" target="_blank">http://outnow.ch/Media/Img/1997/AlienResurrection/</a>
One more Alien 3 photo from imdb.com
<a href="http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0103644/Ss/0103644/IMG0099.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0103644" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0103644/Ss/...ath_key=0103644</a>
My comment on the concepts that are shown in the blog entry:
1) Solaris concept (the first one in the entry) seems to be okay for NS setting.
2) Battlestar Galactica is too plain compared to our expectations from NS2 concept.
3) Craig Mullins' work is really amazing, but a bit too complicated and not that suitable enough for game performance and gameplay.
I am very surprised that nobody mentioned the Alien film series. Here are some photos of Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What do you think did H.G. Giger, huh?
He's multiple Oscarwinner for the Aliencostumes and Environtment Design!
You should read what other People write before your write LIES!
I am very surprised that nobody mentioned the Alien film series. Here are some photos of Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection:
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well, being on a sci fi game forum one would think it's obvious people have seen the alien films. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
If not, they should be banned and can only rejoin when they take an alien exam.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hive5.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::hive::" border="0" alt="hive5.gif" />
I am very surprised that nobody mentioned the Alien film series. Here are some photos of Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection:
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I did it, look at my post hehe <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Anyone seen that apple seed movie ? The objects are simple but look great, its all about style. Yet things can still look intense or scary without being gory. Thats what NS is about being atmospheric but not necessarily horror as to keep it open to a wide audience. I wouldnt neccesarry do a cellshaded look, but just something stylish and fresh looking.
if your going to be using the hl2 engine you won't get a life like look so why not go with it do a manga / cartoon style.
Anyone seen that apple seed movie ? The objects are simple but look great, its all about style. Yet things can still look intense or scary without being gory. Thats what NS is about being atmospheric but not necessarily horror as to keep it open to a wide audience. I wouldnt neccesarry do a cellshaded look, but just something stylish and fresh looking.
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Interesting you should say that, I would have said the Source engine is by far the most cabable engine around at the moment at creating realistic environments. ALL current engines can have photorealistic textures, fairly high detail models with normal maps, but where Source destroys the competition is the prerended lightmaps. No other engine seems to have the realistic light bouncing and raytraced effect source has. (though this obviously has some major downsides, like the lack of dynamic shadows etc)
Having said that I wouldn't mind seeing NS veer away a little from any "realistic" impression of a futuristic environment, I'd personally like to see it end up a little more like some of the impressive si-fi artwork you see around, sort of everything being accentuated a little. Manga/cartoon style definately doesn't appeal however to me.
Below is a link to the photographs of Joe Nishizawa. Basically this guy goes to huge Japanese underground places, spaces and construction projects and takes photos. They probably wouldn't fit NS as such, but could be a source of inspiration. They're usually of larger spaces than usually are found in NS, but why shouldn't NS2 contain bigger spaces as well? Think of the scene in The Lord of the Rings: FotR where they're escaping the orcs in the huge pillar hall... marines retreating in an only partially lighted huge storage space, mutant doggies crawling in the roof and walls, spikes flying from somewhere far away...
Linky link link: <a href="http://joe-nishizawa.jp/G/g_t.html" target="_blank">http://joe-nishizawa.jp/G/g_t.html</a>
As for what I, personally, would like to see in Natural Selection 2! Well! Here we go:
- The lighting style in general could follow along the footsteps of NS1, Aliens vs Predator 2... however, I'm sure HDR could be used to some effect. Would it be possible to create huge floodlights, for example, that would all but blind the player looking at them? Such an effect could be used for gameplay mechanics as well - have the commander/marines install a high-intensity floodlight at an outpost to illuminate a dark hallway, as well as impair skulks rushing at them. Also, plenty of sci-fi/horror hilms (well, some Alien films, at least <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />) use strobe lighting, sometimes even multi-colored. There's no sense why there should be strobe lights on spaceships - which probably are dangerous working enviroments in any case - but it's just so damn effective psychologically! Don't dismiss the strobes! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
- Special effects! Have a look at the Source mod Hidden. Good mod, by the way - reminds me of my 1 pred vs 8 marines servers on AvP2 - except I suck at Hidden. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> And it's got majorly good athmospheric music on the background as well. Ah, sorry, thoughts trailing. Anyway, Some maps in Hidden have grates on the floor/ground, with warm air coming up, so there's a rippling air effect. Which is cool, especially considering you're trying to look for the ripple effect of the Hidden and might end up shooting up at thin - although rippling - air.
Also... STEAM! NS2 needs STEAM! Geddit? lol am I not funny or what? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> Anyway, another aesthetic effect that could also be part of the gameplay mechanics would be steam pumping outta valves periodically. Or, maybe even almost-chaotic amounts of steam - combine those with flabbergasting audio ambiences and the strobe lights mentioned above and you've got a nerve-wracking situation! omgthelightsareallflickeryandtomakethingsworsethatdamnsteamisobstructingmyvisionisthataskulkthereomgomg!
- The critters, then. I, for one, am for updating the Kharaa style. Actually, overall, two of my favourite sci-fi FPS games, NS and AvP2, had/have somewhat cartoony graphics. I dunno - this might be due to engine limitation as well, sorta. Anyway, this should be "improved" (in quotes to imply that cartoony doesn't mean inherently bad) on. Think... Battlestar Galactica (1978) vs. Battlestar Galactica (200x) but with a way more subtle difference. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> Think TMNT cartoon vs. the original TMNT graphic novels.
Also, while it's great that you get to play with and against lots of <b>different</b> aliens, IMO it somehow seems to work against the "believability" of the Kharaa. This effect sort of might be reduced with more uniformity in Kharaa design - even if only applies to skinning - like making them coloured more similar. The bacterial spots on them are probably intended for this but somehow they just don't do the trick for me. Of course there's loads of things to consider regarding that as well, like gameplay and balance issues I'm not even aware of (I dunno - easier to see a red onos charging at you than a brown one? =D).
Make 'em menacing. Evil! Have at least one model without eyes! Aliens without eyes are scary! Look what happened to the Newborn in Alien Resurrection - he got eyes. Scary? Hell no. Oh, and have the Lerk be the eyeless model just for the controversity of it, give it a super sonar instead.
The Fade's got tht praying mantis thing going on - he might look scarier with bony feet like the skulk's. Make his animation a bit wobbly so that it actually looks like he's not entirely in balance but of course he is. Or how about adding a second set of bony feet? 6 limbs in total? Make the mantis thing even more obvious, but might look freaky.
And Onos looks so much like a real life bull it works against the "aliens" part of the game. Doom 3's Pinky Demon is an example of a charging boar/bull type of enemy that's still distinctly alien/demonic/evil/a monster and whatnot - so make a model with a stance more similar to that - is the word haunched? Sorry, English isn't my 1st language. Add horns (maybe even four or six, aimed at different directions? Wouldn't have to have a gameplay effect, just for visuals), a bigger mouth for gulping marines, small, beady eyes, a visible headbone for ramming similar to NS1 Onos. etc etc. Oh, did the Onos have "rastas" or something like that? Keep those.
- Ahh, the colours. These have been mentioned in context of the lighting. Anyways, my opinion: Try to keep the amount of overall colours low. This has to be done carefully, of course, to avoid making boring areas. But what I'm after here is this: What colours do I remember from Aliens? Blue, red - blue in most areas, sometimes with a red light. Alien^3? Brown (yellowish?). Resurrection? Brown. So I remember certain colours - might be a little off, actually, but the point is that I don't remember a whole range of colours. And of course I don't mean "remove every speck of bright red from this map" - I mean "have areas, even whole maps have a strong theme and stick with it."
Damn, I write long posts, don't I? Hope they're not pointless posts. Anyways, those were my opinions (even though at some point it looks like I'm trying to TELL you to do things my way - of course tht's not true) and I just have one more. This one's the master opinion that applies to almost all areas - modelling, skinning/texture work, overall atmosphere - sound as well even though this is a visual thread:
GRITTY = GOOD
or drive by sulk scurys past you take a chunk out of your leg and keeps running your about to take aim huge vent bets bitten out hall fills with masses of steam sulk lives to bite another day
yes lighting and colors are very important when it comes to setting atmosphere and the yshoud lall follow a genral key and feel to said map and area, transitions in colors are uslay always boarded but ther are rare cases as with warnings and things
ho ever you are entitled to your opinion but i really must disagree with your critter suggestions, kahraa are space bacteria, tiny little metors may rapture the hull of a ship and next thing you know a huge infestation begins to form in the stagnate of the hull
the one thing that is certain about bacteria is its always evolving, modern medicine almost never can catch up with viruses and bacteria these days
this is a bacteria not even nannites can qwell with out assisstance
every form every alien in ns and ns2 should look unique, it should have miss matching ill shapen eyes on some beast sit shoud lahve variang spiek paterns from limb to limb some times
bacteria us ever evolving to achinve the next best thing to consume what threatens it
the one alien that seams out side of the common kahraa rules in color and markings seams to be the fade and i truely aggree its needs the color scheme and the bacteria camo look that blends in with creep like the rest do, it doesnt have enough, the onos altho red, has enough and can get away with it
hey its just a matter of opinion
ho ever you are entitled to your opinion but i really must disagree with your critter suggestions, kahraa are space bacteria,
the one thing that is certain about bacteria is its always evolving, modern medicine almost never can catch up with viruses and bacteria these days
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Ah. I forgot about this part of the story. So bearing this in mind, it is sort of logical that the different creatures really look diverse.
Every map has a starting hive and a command chair. If you assume that the aliens had their location for a while and that the marines barely just arrived (since they have no other equipment then the CC), then lets concentrate on the aliens. After all, I think the atmosphere will be more on a marine environment influenced by the presence of aliens after a while. Now lets elaborate on the presence of aliens and how it should affect the surroundings.
Alien elaboration
- Since aliens have one hive at the start, we will assume they got there first and for quite some times
- Since they were there first and had no knowledge of humans or ennemies, that would explain why at the start of a game, there are no defenses. Just a hive and basic alien forms.
- Now with aliens having no ennemies, no defenses, what have they been doing before the marines came ? Exploring for the purpose of finding new ressources and scouting
- To explore, they can simply use the same path as normal humans would do but since the alien population is mainly composed of skulk, they can walk on walls and ceillings. Therefore, wouldn't it be logical to assume that in order to explore other rooms not normaly accessible (like locked doors), that they would use ventilation openings or create theire own openings ?
- for ventilation openings, that means that some of them would have had their gratings riped out or damaged in some way to indicate someone tried/successfuly opened it
- for any kinds of openings that are not ventilation related, we could think of pannels (walls, ceillings, boxes, computers, ...) that were ripped out by force and therefore, causing damaged equipements or cables hanging out of it
- you could also think of windows being scratched or broken to indicate other forced entries by aliens
- aliens being curious about their new unknown environment, would surely start to examine small objects (I call them props) that are resting on tables or shelves. They would bite them, push them, test them and eventualy make them fall down. From a marine point of view, someone looking at such a place would think someone ravaged the place
- Now we all know there is mucus growth in NS maps caused by the presence of aliens right ? The mucus starts at the original hive placement and grows outward. The greather the area covered by the mucus, the more it suggests the aliens were there for a longer period. Having great quantities of mucus and almost no environmental damaged caused by the aliens is to my opinion, non-realistic. Why would the aliens be there for weeks/months and not causing environmental damage ?
- With the growth of the mucus, we would expect that it would cover electrical equipment or even lights. Therefore causing short cicuits (equipement not working or partialy working) and less light (either because they were covered or shorted out). This would also imply that the further away from the mucus you would go, the more normal the electrical surroundings would be. Unless it covered the main generator, causing major power failure through the place and because of that, emergency power/lights would turn on or having no/little lights at all.
- Also, something I have realy never seen so far. How did the aliens came to this place ? We always see the hive and aliens but never see from where they came in. I would think they came from the outside and therfore forced their way in by either the ventilation shaft, main doors or windows. This has not been explored yet. Off course, having this would also imply that marines would be able to go outside through the same place aliens came in. Outside exploration should then have somekind of physicial limit to prevent aliens/marines to go to far away from the base.
- Since they came from outside, it would be fair to assume that they didn't start explorations until the hive was built, therefore the surroundings of where they came through would be alien free.
- I would assume that any alien ressource tower already built before the marines would come, would be very near the mucus growth or on top of it.
Now that we have explored the effect of aliens presence affecting the surroundings, this might give a better idea on how to create the visual look of the hive surroundings keeping in mind the relation between the mucus growth vs how long have the aliens been there.
Marine elaboration
- If we take in account that the marines would come from the outside, a while after the aliens came, then it would be logicial that they would establish a command center in some room near the entrance or at a room looking like a command center. This also implies as we all know it from the start, that the only marine equipment present is the command chair.
- The marine surroundings is presumably not affected by aliens (execpt for any forced entries the aliens had to do in order to penetrate the base). This also implies that there is power and functional equipments (unless the main power generator is down and surroundings is in emergency power only).
- Having electricity at the marine side and assuming the main generator is not down, one could imagine somekind of visual warning sign that something is wrong. That could be either by an alarm sound or computer displays. If it is sound based, then the marines should be able to turn it off.
- Nearby ressource towers could be built but if the marines just barely arrived, it would suggested they decided to build a ressource tower before an IP. Unless those ressource towers are not from the marines but from the previous habitants of the base. In that case, I would imagine the ressource tower model should be a bit different then the marines and aliens would have to be able to destroy it.
- If we think about the marine side before they even came, you have to think about the previous habitants of the place. Were they there when the aliens arrived and if so, what happened once the aliens came ? Some visual indications has to be there to tell the marine somekind of message.
- If there were habitants when the aliens came, then logicaly, some signs should indicate it. One very common one seen in movies is the cofees and donuts still around. Also, what kind of suggestions would there be about those habitants ? Have they been all killed ? Have they fled away ? To both, a panic would have surely happened and anyone knows that in a panic situation, things get dropped,tossed or abandoned. Some visual clues should be there to indicate that. If they were attacked/killed, where are the bodies ? Are there any bodies laying around ? If they managed to run away, then how ? Have they used somekind of gateway door leading to an escape ship/pod ? If so, shouldn't it be visible and accessible by everyone ? If they fled, did someone managed to turn on an alarm or send away a radio call yelling for help ? If so, shouldn't there be somkind of indications of that ?
- If there were no habitants before the aliens came, then the base should have an abandoned look right ? How ? Usualy an abandoned place has papers, debris, waste everywhere. It should not be clean if it was abandoned. Maybe it is a base being constructed by robots and since there is no power in some places, then robots would be offline there ? If it was abandoned, then why ? Extensive damage to structural surroundings ? If so, would it be logical to visualy see those extensive damages ? Like collapsed corridors, structural metal beams dropped on the floor, inaccessible rooms, fire maybe ?
- If the marines did not come from the outside (meaning from an entrance), then the only other possibility is that they came in through some portal technology. In that case, it should exist in the base, right ? If so, it would be locigical that after the marines came through it, they would deactivate it to prevent any ennemies to escape through it.
- If the marines came from the outside, how did the come ? By ship, by ground vehicle ? If so, how about having them visible ? Off course, having them accessible implies they are not operational and that additional polygons are required.
- Now how did the marines found out about this situation erging them to get there ? Again, the idea of an emergency radio message or alarm fits in. If both were not activated, then why did they came in the first place ? Some kind of clue has to be there. Maybe the lack of power in some areas somehow sent an automatic maintenance message to the marine main base ?
- Being a human base, you have to think about if it is isolated from the rest of the planet or not. If it is, then logicaly, the base would have to provide all its habitants with every thing they need : food, sleeping, recreation, working, armory, repair shop, ... These would have to be existing but wouldn't mean they would have to be accessible (just a door with a sign maybe ?)
- If the base was abandoned due to structural damages, then passages would have to be somehow blocked preventing marines to go through (unless they are able to weld theire way through !), then gameplay obligates other passages to be present so the marines can access the hive.
- Also, if the base was abandoned due to structural damages, to remind the timer limit of the game and to add pressure, maybe the presence of somekind of timer to total destruction ? I always had this idea about a gameplay where before reching zero, some kind of action had to be done to prevent it. Aliens would optionaly prevent them from doing it.
- Since alien presence also suggests power failure to some areas, you would expect to see jammed doors (opened or closed). THe usage of the welder would reverse the situation (allowing marines to go through or preventing aliens from coming through). It could also be a damaged room where welding would cause even more damage and therfore blocking the room.
- The marine side environement would off course be well lightened (unless again, on emergency power or abandoned). If on emergency power, then just about all the map would have little light or none at all. Why have well lightened rooms if the whole base is on emergency power ? Also, why not give the possibility to repair/turn on a backup generator to turn on full light/electricty to all powerless/emergency powered areas ?
- Having powerless areas and a non 2d type of base, places where a lift would normaly be used would have to have backup way of travelling (meaning ladders). If this is a concept design of the base itself, then all lifts would have to have ladders.
I'm running out of ideas on the marines side (and time since its been over an hour of writing this!) as the atmosphere is more on how the aliens affected the surroundings. Feel free to add other idea but think of it as if you were making a movie. You have to setup the environment accordingly to speak for themselves, they have to tell the audience what happened. Keep it realistic, that's how I thought of the whole thing (while writing my post !). Once you have established the surroundings, how it should look before the game actualy starts and how it should react once it starts, then all that is left to do is to build the map accordingly.