NS 3.2 Public beta

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Comments

  • TerRaKanETerRaKanE Join Date: 2003-05-14 Member: 16292Members, Constellation
    edited November 2006
    I aggree that aliens have been weakned, however they are still good.
    Look at competetive gaming. It was MUCH harder to get a marine win than an alien win. Of course you can say "its only a matter of teamplay" but its also a matter of "realy good fades". The fade changes are good imho (tough almost everyone plays fade now...annoying as marine..."WTH! 6 FADES!!"). Nevertheless it's more balanced now.

    aliens gained a few advanteges aswell (e.g. they can use other chambers than MCs first coz of hive teleport, SC will block Motion Tracking etc.)

    All in all, NS is more balanced than in 3.1. Of course marines now can camp a bit more in one room as before, but that only means that aliens need more teamplay, and cannot <b>only </b>rely on their fades anymore.
  • ikirikir Join Date: 2003-07-19 Member: 18265Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Gold
    edited November 2006
    I'm loving it. Long live to NS!

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I aggree that aliens have been weakned, however they are still good.
    Look at competetive gaming. It was MUCH harder to get a marine win than an alien win. Of course you can say "its only a matter of teamplay" but its also a matter of "realy good fades". The fade changes are good imho (tough almost everyone plays fade now...annoying as marine..."WTH! 6 FADES!!"). Nevertheless it's more balanced now.

    aliens gained a few advanteges aswell (e.g. they can use other chambers than MCs first coz of hive teleport, SC will block Motion Tracking etc.)

    All in all, NS is more balanced than in 3.1. Of course marines now can camp a bit more in one room as before, but that only means that aliens need more teamplay, and cannot only rely on their fades anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I agree 100%
  • SlinkSlink Join Date: 2003-07-01 Member: 17829Members
    All right, I'll throw my two bits in here.

    At this point, beta's been public for about two days. I've played a little in that, but not a whole lot. I'm not going to go one way or another on overall game balance, atleast not yet. I don't think that will be worth asking about for atleast two weeks. But there are other things to talk about. Many of the cosmetic changes I enjoy and find useful. The new crosshairs are nice, as well as the devour bar and the new evolution bar. I think many of the new maps atleast look very cool, though I don't have a feel on how well they'll play yet.

    As far as fading goes, I haven't made up my mind yet on whether it's better or worse, overall. Technically, it has been nerfed with slower acceleration, but I'm not super-3l33t so blink control has been something I found problematic. So, it's been a trade-off, with more control vs less acceleration, and the new +move command vs less hp.

    However, I do have one strong opinion, with the new +move/reload command. I like the idea, but I do NOT like the implementation. The problem I find with it is it's simply one key too many to bind.

    Let's look at how many keys we're already using on a regular basis, when fighting.

    Forward/Back
    Left
    Right
    Crouch
    Jump
    Weapon Slot1
    W. Slot2
    W. Slot3
    Attack

    When you start to bind those commands you may notice that the first five fit quite nicely onto your left hand, and indeed are the standard binds, excepting possible a 3-jump script. Incidentally, the biggest advantage between b-hopping with a 3-jump script and hopping with a mouse wheel is right here. A 3-jump script duplicates a previous function (plain jump) and moves your bunny hop capability off of your crowded left hand.

    The other four abilities in that list can be somewhat problematic to assign. I have a 4-button mouse, so it's easy for me, but someone else without that is at a disadvantage. It's really a 5-button mouse, but I find that using the mousewheel/mouse3 requires me to move my fingers to the side, which is extremely awkward in a combat situation.

    There are a couple things missing from that list up there. One conspicuous absence is the reload command. There's two reasons for that. The first is that while reload is a command I do use frequently, it's not a key I hold down, unlike the movement keys or attack. The second reason is that 95% of the time, when I'm reloading in a fight, the 1/4 a second it takes me to reach another key does not determine whether I live or die.

    But, that's not all. There's more keys that you may need to have bound, to play NS reasonably well.

    Voicecomm
    Reload
    Flashlight
    W. Slot4
    W. Slot5
    In-game Menu
    "Use"
    Map
    Possible other binds, such as med/ammo, structures, alien/marine configs
    Throw Weapon
    And maybe more I'm forgetting right now.

    For the most part, these abilities aren't combat sensitive. They're good to have extremely close to your home position, but if you have to reach for them, it's not so likely to cost you too much. Weapon Slot4 for aliens only comes into play in the third hive, which is somewhat rare in 3.1.


    And so with 3.2, we throw into this already crowded environment the new alien-only +move command. Of course, it's a combat ability. Meaning it has the highest desirability in key-bind priority, and is basically required to be in our static finger position. And, for some odd reason, it's tied to the marine-only command reload. Which, as I stated above, is NOT an in-combat ability. To top it all off, there's the problem that for skulks, +move a two-hive ability, and for fades, it's a one-hive ability. Meaning that I can't just bind +move in place of my Weapon slot2 key. The problem is that there's simply not enough keys to go around.

    The solution that I see, like the problem, is multi-fold. One option is to make completely separate configs for each alien life-form, and another one for marines. There are two ways that I see of doing this. One would be to create said configs in the options menu, and have people take the time to dig through buried menus to set up their keys to play the game. The other way to make separate configs would be to leave the situation as-is, and let (force) people to write their own config files and keybinds. These options, while probably the least work for the developers, I think have the highest drawbacks, in that they both require you to know the game to some extent before you can bind your keys. In addition, the second option requires you to know (or find out) how to create alternate config files, and the keybinds to switch between them in-game. Both of these options, though the second in particular, add more to NS's already-beastly learning curve, and I think would intimidate new players away from NS, and drive old players out of NS.

    There are other options though. In the vein of requiring more dev work and possibly being restricted by the engine, I would start off with splitting the reload/+movement command. That removes the problem of having different keybinds for aliens and marines. In addition to that I would create a new alien command, +alternate, which works as +parasite for skulks, and +metabolize for fades. Or, I suppose you could do something with the quickswitch command, but for some reason I seem to remember it having a delay on it that wasn't present with the basic slot selection. If anyone wants to correct or clarify the quickswitch delay thing, please feel free.

    Alternately, Flayra could just mail everyone mice with more and better button layouts. This is a joke option, do not select this.



    To sum things up on +move, I like the idea. I don't like the current implementation, I think it needs some work. I do have a few ideas on how I can modify my config if the current implementation of +move doesn't change, but not all of them are something I would expect most players to undertake. I like many of the cosmetic changes of the game, but as far as actual gameplay and balance changes go, I personally can't effectively evaluate them until something is done with +move. And after thinking about this all evening, I really don't want to know how people with two-button mice play NS. If anyone has any questions on any of this, go ahead and ask them, I might be able to clarify.
  • puzlpuzl The Old Firm Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    +movement does a reload as marine, so you can double up your reload/movement functionality on a single key. This was done to expose the new feature in the default config without requiring the user to add a new key to their basic NS interface.

    Personally, I bind +popupmenu to mouse4, and +movement to mouse2.


    The issue of key availability is one we care a lot about, and one of the design tenets of NS is that it should expose all essential features via the standard FPS keyset. The current +movement implementation accomplishes this.
  • TerRaKanETerRaKanE Join Date: 2003-05-14 Member: 16292Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1579990:date=Nov 23 2006, 01:18 PM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Nov 23 2006, 01:18 PM) [snapback]1579990[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Personally, I bind +popupmenu to mouse4, and +movement to mouse2.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    and thats my problem!
    I'd love to bind +movment to mouse2 but I can't because I've binded 3jump on it. I guess there is no way to solve this problem? ^^
    (and btw puzl, as marine you are reloading with mouse2 then? isnt that a waste of one of the best keys at all? What again leads us to seperate alien/marin configs)
  • puzlpuzl The Old Firm Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    I have different configs for each class. The purpose of the dual +movement/reload was to expose the feature in the default config without requiring a new key to be bound.
  • BadMouthBadMouth It ceases to be exclusive when you can have a custom member titl Join Date: 2004-05-21 Member: 28815Members
    So far, I like 3.2 a lot. Havent tried the new blink though.

    Especialy like the cosmetic changes. Gestation bar and welding bar look a whole lot cooler now. The colour coding on the mini map is pretty neat too.
  • Joe2Joe2 Join Date: 2004-09-03 Member: 31268Members
    Too bad, there no skulk.cfg gorge.cfg lerk.cfg fade.cfg and onos.cfg...
    without this, i can't change the slot2 from skulk and fade to +movement, slot4 from onos to +movement.
  • AlphaWolfAlphaWolf Join Date: 2003-01-11 Member: 12175Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1579949:date=Nov 23 2006, 03:07 AM:name=DumbMarine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DumbMarine @ Nov 23 2006, 03:07 AM) [snapback]1579949[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    The HUD upgrades are for the win.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I'm terrible at the game right now, but aliens, especially skulks, are abnormally flimsy. It's great and all that they can't dodge bullets anymore, but bleh. I have yet to see hive 3 in the 9 hours I've played.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah I've noticed this as well. It feels as though the skulks are seriously nerfed in this beta.
  • mooseymoosey Join Date: 2005-05-08 Member: 51205Members
    can't use my own crosshairs anymore?
    widescreen players get ######ed and the 'new' crosshairs blow on widescreen because they only made crosshairs for 'normal' resolutions.
  • TheGuyTheGuy Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19295Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1580073:date=Nov 23 2006, 11:14 AM:name=moosey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(moosey @ Nov 23 2006, 11:14 AM) [snapback]1580073[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    can't use my own crosshairs anymore?
    widescreen players get ######ed and the 'new' crosshairs blow on widescreen because they only made crosshairs for 'normal' resolutions.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Try reading the whole thread.
  • MaxAmusMaxAmus UK Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24779Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    well... i cant download it, tryed places, so dose anyone have a differnt link? just even to the small patch at least?
  • tigersmithtigersmith Join Date: 2004-11-11 Member: 32749Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited November 2006
    <!--quoteo(post=1579956:date=Nov 23 2006, 03:33 AM:name=TerRaKanE)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TerRaKanE @ Nov 23 2006, 03:33 AM) [snapback]1579956[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I aggree that aliens have been weakned, however they are still good.
    Look at competetive gaming. It was MUCH harder to get a marine win than an alien win. Of course you can say "its only a matter of teamplay" but its also a matter of "realy good fades". The fade changes are good imho (tough almost everyone plays fade now...annoying as marine..."WTH! 6 FADES!!"). Nevertheless it's more balanced now.

    aliens gained a few advanteges aswell (e.g. they can use other chambers than MCs first coz of hive teleport, SC will block Motion Tracking etc.)

    All in all, NS is more balanced than in 3.1. Of course marines now can camp a bit more in one room as before, but that only means that aliens need more team play, and cannot <b>only </b>rely on their fades anymore. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Exactly, For the past couple weeks of testing 3.2 I have felt this, and I think people just need to have it settle in more for them to actually realise that it is more balanced
  • AnAkInAnAkIn Join Date: 2006-09-18 Member: 58020Members
    edited November 2006
    3.2 bad server performance??all server i went on were on 3.1 with no lags and on 3.2 they are lagging and crashing

    or its because of AMXX?
  • puzlpuzl The Old Firm Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    I'm not sure about server crashes, we haven't got any reports from server ops about it.

    The lag is caused when people who only install the patch ( with no 3.1 install in nsp ) connect to a server.
  • coriscoris Join Date: 2003-07-08 Member: 18034Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1580096:date=Nov 23 2006, 07:44 PM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Nov 23 2006, 07:44 PM) [snapback]1580096[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    I'm not sure about server crashes, we haven't got any reports from server ops about it.

    The lag is caused when people who only install the patch ( with no 3.1 install in nsp ) connect to a server.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ...because they need to download tons of files off the server before they are able to play, stealing bandwidth?
  • DTEDTE Join Date: 2004-05-03 Member: 28412Members
    Srry i'm too lazy to read the whole thread maybe it came up already
    but it seems 3.2 doesn't support long names anymore

    ns3.1.3: [I AM] DTE (Powered by m00)
    ns3.2: [I AM] DTE (Powered by

    <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
  • TOmekkiTOmekki Join Date: 2003-11-25 Member: 23524Members
    its cause of the new element on the scoreboard showing alien res. if your name shows up on the hud (type or kill something) it wont be cut short.
  • BigDBigD [OldF] Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1596Members
    Actually, I've been wondering about having the +movement on "r". Turning right and blinking/leaping/charging will be a bit trickier now, I suspect, if I have to hold down "r". (Downloading it tonight to really see how it feels)

    I might try moving the pop-up menu around though, maybe swap it with the reload/movement.

    Worst case scenario: I'm stuck playing the old way.
  • coriscoris Join Date: 2003-07-08 Member: 18034Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1580145:date=Nov 24 2006, 12:29 AM:name=gumhat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gumhat @ Nov 24 2006, 12:29 AM) [snapback]1580145[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

    Dislike:
    *The new unit colors, the orange is just really ugly and the light blue is hard to see sometimes. It was a lot better when it was enemies red allies green. I think it'd be better if only RTS/Structures flashed red.
    *Not seeing players names in spectate when you're dead
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I agree with you on the spectating thing. The flashing minimap is VERY (almost too) useful for protecting your rts, especially as a marine.

    Two hive aliens need a small boost at the moment. The removal of the armourbonuses along with the slower fade blink make them very crippled during the middle-game.






    @last post: rebind your keys, it's certainly worth it! I have +movement bound to mouse5 and it works like a charm! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
  • puzlpuzl The Old Firm Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    The missing spectator name is a bug and will be fixed in the beta2 patch.
  • TheGuyTheGuy Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19295Members, Constellation
    Bind your mouse2 to +movement. It works great. It's not like you use the popup menu enough to have to keep it bound there.
  • coriscoris Join Date: 2003-07-08 Member: 18034Members, Constellation
    edited November 2006
    <!--quoteo(post=1580162:date=Nov 24 2006, 01:44 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Nov 24 2006, 01:44 AM) [snapback]1580162[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    The missing spectator name is a bug and will be fixed in the beta2 patch.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Is that skulk/gorge default_fov/sensitivity oddity fixed as well?
  • willeh22willeh22 Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58220Members
    i havnt yet put the beta on cos i cant atm but i was just wondering with the hive teleport... do u need the mc upgrade or can u just teleport whenever without the need for the mc?
  • TheGuyTheGuy Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19295Members, Constellation
    Let's say you have 1 hive. A gorge drops the other hive and presses use under it. All aliens can (while it's still flashing red) press use on the starting hive to teleport to the building hive.

    Or if you have 2 or 3 hives up, you can press use on the hive to go to the next hive.
  • willeh22willeh22 Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58220Members
  • NiebelungNiebelung Join Date: 2006-11-12 Member: 58565Members, Constellation
    can +movement work for +jump as a lerk please please please!!!! It only makes sense . . . and im considering not using it at all, because i need mouse2 as +jump so I can fly well, and +movement anywhere else isnt better than just using lastinv.
  • F4tManMGS2F4tManMGS2 Join Date: 2004-04-10 Member: 27842Members
    Someone mentioned above that they noticed server crashes a lot; I've noticced this too, but found that a bug has already been posted about it (and a solution provided, something to the effect of people copying the folders wrong).

    Honestly, I love 3.2. I remember when 1.03? or 2.3? or something after 1.02?? Meh, about two-three years ago I played a version I liked, some months after I started losing interest in NS and the upgrade finally killed it (needless to mention a few months after I re-joined).

    This is not the case with 3.2; I am extremely enjoying this, and for some odd reason am strangly attracted to random 3.2 servers where I don't know people over servers where I do know some. Everything seems great.

    My favorite thing is the fluidity that the game feels like it has now; maybe nothing was changd, but everything feels so much more, well, fluid. 3.1 felt a little choppy sometimes, and the whole "reg" issue that people would always complain about (i'd call it choppyness) feels like it isn't there.

    My only dislike is really the +movement thing; I have no hand eye coordination, so as a fade I use my mousewheel to scroll through the attacks, not as shortcuts to the attacks (I use it like in CS). For +movement I've found mouse3 to be my best place; unfortunately my mouse sucks and it tends to scroll randomly and presisng down on it encourages it to get caught in a nverending loop of scrolling my weapons <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> Then again, this is my fault for buying a bad mouse!

    The game is great and everything is most excelling.
  • enigmaenigma Join Date: 2004-09-11 Member: 31623Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1580274:date=Nov 24 2006, 03:10 AM:name=F4tManMGS2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F4tManMGS2 @ Nov 24 2006, 03:10 AM) [snapback]1580274[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    My favorite thing is the fluidity that the game feels like it has now; maybe nothing was changd, but everything feels so much more, well, fluid. 3.1 felt a little choppy sometimes, and the whole "reg" issue that people would always complain about (i'd call it choppyness) feels like it isn't there.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    anyone else notice that too?
  • TerRaKanETerRaKanE Join Date: 2003-05-14 Member: 16292Members, Constellation
    edited November 2006
    don't know why you are asking but, I dont aggree.
    It feels like my SG doenst reg the shots... maybe only my rates suck - but never did before.
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