<!--quoteo(post=1592095:date=Dec 25 2006, 10:41 AM:name=simoniker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(simoniker @ Dec 25 2006, 10:41 AM) [snapback]1592095[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Our judges then took a detailed look at all the mods and weighed up both innovation and execution when making their decision. I can't speak for them (because I didn't judge), but as I understand it, they saw Eternal Silence as being one of the most interesting mods of recent months because it really _does_ do some innovative things with the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, emperor awesome, where does it say here that it has to either 1) impress the gamers, or 2) have players playing in servers, to earn the award?
<!--quoteo(post=1592503:date=Dec 27 2006, 03:48 PM:name=Freddeh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Freddeh @ Dec 27 2006, 03:48 PM) [snapback]1592503[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> So, emperor awesome, where does it say here that it has to either 1) impress the gamers, or 2) have players playing in servers, to earn the award? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->because it really _does_ do some innovative things with the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it doubtful that any judges actually played the game, if they expect us to believe that they actually experienced, first hand, all the wonderful innovative things that ESMod has done. The mod is unplayable, and you'll notice that he posted that IN THIS THREAD as an excuse justifying why they saw fit to give ESMod the award.
Also, <i>Freddeh</i>, nobody here but you is getting close to trolling/flaming.
<!--quoteo(post=1592507:date=Dec 27 2006, 05:26 AM:name=emperor_awesome)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(emperor_awesome @ Dec 27 2006, 05:26 AM) [snapback]1592507[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I find it doubtful that any judges actually played the game, if they expect us to believe that they actually experienced, first hand, all the wonderful innovative things that ESMod has done. The mod is unplayable, and you'll notice that he posted that IN THIS THREAD as an excuse justifying why they saw fit to give ESMod the award. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That doesn't answer his question. Where does it state that winning the award is based on number of servers or players? It doesn't. You keep stating the mod is unplayable, yet it isn't. Unplayable does not mean that there's no one playing it, it means it doesn't run, or the basic features don't work correctly, but the basic features of ES DO work correctly, and it does run. Therefore your comment on the judges reeks of nothing but bias. You have no evidence they didn't play it.
The mod, as I and numerous others found, was unplayable. For public usage, for its intended usage, the mod was unplayable. Perhaps during highly structured, LAN-based beta testing the mod offered some vestige of playability, but it failed its intended purpose -- to provide an entertaining playing environment for those who downloaded it.
My comments regarding the judges' playtesting hold two main points:
One, that obviously it was a somewhat-facetious remark to illustrate both the inferior nature of the ESMod release and the unrealistic way in which the judges can be assumed to have tested the game (i.e not in the way the mod was meant to be played -- online, with public players). My comments are similar to Firewater's joked references about political overtones -- to be taken at more than just face value.
Two, to criticise the testing criteria for the judges' scoring. We cannot know in what environment the judges tested the game, except that if it holds any pretenses of approaching respectability, it could only have been something completely separate from the way 99% of public players experienced the game. If the judges were truly able to wrangle a gaming experience of any positive kind from it, then they have achieved something most people who downloaded the public beta did not. Thus they were play-testing a game separate to the one experienced by most players, in our naive expectation that it would work in some degree by connecting to an available online server.
Do you really want to do this? Your (collective, 'opponents to our constructive criticism') repeated attacks and uninspired trolling forces me to defend myself and my position. Full steam ahead, then:
- By not reviewing the mod in the way that players are expected to experience it, they are providing an unrealistic presentation of the game, one that does not approach the reality of the situation.
- The current levels of players and servers providing the mod reflects two things: Either a mod so unpopular in its delivery that nobody desires to play it, and/or a mod so buggy that nobody who desired to could play the mod in any public or popular capacity. By reviewing a mod so inaccessible to the public, IGF have demonstrated the inferiority of their testing criteria. They thus have reviewed a mod based on its projected potential to the public, rather than on any kind of reality. You may as well give it 10/10 based on its website's features list rather than its effective delivery of them, as nobody online can currently experience or appreciate the "ground-breaking" features as they stand.
From the very start, I have maintained a constant opinion of the mod, the award and the situation. I'll recount them here so nobody is confused and continues attacking my position as if I held another one:
1. ESMod has put a lot of effort into the mod. This is commendable, but not enough to justify a "mod of the year" award on its own, excepting of course for incredibly lackluster competition. 2. The mod is currently unplayable, by definition "accessible to the online public in any form that approaches an entertaining experience". Hell, you could do without the "entertaining experience" and it would still apply. I just don't want to leave myself open to "well hell, I've loaded up the game by myself and sat still for three minutes, it hasn't crashed yet!" 3. The mod still has a lot of work to go, but it could become entertaining. I look forward to this day. 4. Regardless of the postulated feature list or the number of lines of code, due to the unplayable nature of the game, they are effectively nullified and become irrelevant. 5. IGF have, by scoring a mod based on, effectively, its potential rather than the reality of its condition, degraded their own respectability and worth of opinion. This is obvious enough from the incredulous public response. 6. Mods are games, games are meant to be played. It is a free mod, it is open to the public, the intended audience/target is the general gamer public. 7. Thus IGF have a responsibility to score the game according to how the general gaming public, the intended demographic, can expect to receive and play the game.
In any case, are you 2 forum trolls or something? Took you like 5 mins apiece to respond <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
At least I could help with the link. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess any different opinion to the status quo is "trolling", just because our arguements atleast make sense in theory doesn't mean its trolling, sorry man, try again.
<!--quoteo(post=1592521:date=Dec 27 2006, 07:43 AM:name=Aldaris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Aldaris @ Dec 27 2006, 07:43 AM) [snapback]1592521[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You keep stating the mod is unplayable, yet it isn't. Unplayable does not mean that there's no one playing it, it means it doesn't run, or the basic features don't work correctly, but the basic features of ES DO work correctly, and it does run <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By your standards, that means that Daikatana is playable (it works), Britney Spears is listenable (the sound waves reach your ears) and Plan 9 From Outer Space is watchable (someone actually bothered to record that movie and distribute it) Yet I have my doubts that any of these deserve any sort of award for their greatness.
Here is a quote directly from the Eternal Silence Forums <a href="http://www.eternal-silence.net/forums/index.php?topic=3228.0" target="_blank">http://www.eternal-silence.net/forums/index.php?topic=3228.0</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, so I noticed this mod got a very distinguished award and I was like wow! How did I miss this mod? So I download it right away epecting atleast a few servers to be full of players then to my suprise what do I find? Not a single person playing? What the heck? Come on guys lets get some games going I really wana try out this mod properly and the most I got to do was a 1v1 dogfight.............<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's no need to attack the mod. We've made our point about the absurdity of the award, upheld it against ridiculous trolls, and not resorted to flames or near-personal attacks like some other people in this thread. Be gracious in both victory and defeat, eh Firewater wot wot.
<!--quoteo(post=1592667:date=Dec 27 2006, 07:48 PM:name=emperor_awesome)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(emperor_awesome @ Dec 27 2006, 07:48 PM) [snapback]1592667[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> There's no need to attack the mod. We've made our point about the absurdity of the award, upheld it against ridiculous trolls, and not resorted to flames or near-personal attacks like some other people in this thread. Be gracious in both victory and defeat, eh Firewater wot wot. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that quote came across as an attack, then I apologize. I am only attempting to mound evidence for my claim, as I made a point about getting mod of the year but nobody being able to play it.
I was not aware of any victory, nor did seek to achieve said victory in a non-gracious way. I am merely just providing evidence to counter the claims made by others on this forum.
The way I see it, the criticisms of the mod as unplayed really has no place, as the criterion of "number of players/servers" is not particularly relevant. However, the fact that it is unplayed points at some deeper flaw with the mod.
So the question is, what is this flaw? That would be the most relevant topic for debate.
<!--quoteo(post=1592739:date=Dec 28 2006, 03:01 AM:name=john_sheu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john_sheu @ Dec 28 2006, 03:01 AM) [snapback]1592739[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The way I see it, the criticisms of the mod as unplayed really has no place, as the criterion of "number of players/servers" is not particularly relevant. However, the fact that it is unplayed points at some deeper flaw with the mod.
So the question is, what is this flaw? That would be the most relevant topic for debate. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
while I agree player/server ratio should not be the sole criterion for achieving mod of the year, a multiplayer mod that gets the award should have SOME servers up, wouldn't you agree? I am they advertise that they won an award which is going to stimulate some interest, though those people may be disappointed when after they spend the time downloading it anticipating a great game to play.
What they get in return for their excitement as of right now is <u>nothing</u>. There are no servers up, nobody else to play against. Does that sound like mod of the year to you? If it is so great, I would figure at least the dev team would have some servers up despite just having one map or whatever other excuses they make.
It just seems sad that a multiplayer mod gets mod of the year and nobody can play it.
I'm saying that due to its current state that people cannot play it, and a mod that nobody can play when the award is given out, should be honored with Mod of the Year.
<!--coloro:#666666--><span style="color:#666666"><!--/coloro-->3<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--> times a charm<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Anyway, this mod has potential. And I would probably try it out. But yeh if there are no players or servers for that matter. Then the waiting game starts <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Comments
Our judges then took a detailed look at all the mods and weighed up both innovation and execution when making their decision. I can't speak for them (because I didn't judge), but as I understand it, they saw Eternal Silence as being one of the most interesting mods of recent months because it really _does_ do some innovative things with the game.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, emperor awesome, where does it say here that it has to either 1) impress the gamers, or 2) have players playing in servers, to earn the award?
So, emperor awesome, where does it say here that it has to either 1) impress the gamers, or 2) have players playing in servers, to earn the award?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->because it really _does_ do some innovative things with the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it doubtful that any judges actually played the game, if they expect us to believe that they actually experienced, first hand, all the wonderful innovative things that ESMod has done. The mod is unplayable, and you'll notice that he posted that IN THIS THREAD as an excuse justifying why they saw fit to give ESMod the award.
Also, <i>Freddeh</i>, nobody here but you is getting close to trolling/flaming.
I find it doubtful that any judges actually played the game, if they expect us to believe that they actually experienced, first hand, all the wonderful innovative things that ESMod has done. The mod is unplayable, and you'll notice that he posted that IN THIS THREAD as an excuse justifying why they saw fit to give ESMod the award.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That doesn't answer his question. Where does it state that winning the award is based on number of servers or players? It doesn't. You keep stating the mod is unplayable, yet it isn't. Unplayable does not mean that there's no one playing it, it means it doesn't run, or the basic features don't work correctly, but the basic features of ES DO work correctly, and it does run. Therefore your comment on the judges reeks of nothing but bias. You have no evidence they didn't play it.
My comments regarding the judges' playtesting hold two main points:
One, that obviously it was a somewhat-facetious remark to illustrate both the inferior nature of the ESMod release and the unrealistic way in which the judges can be assumed to have tested the game (i.e not in the way the mod was meant to be played -- online, with public players). My comments are similar to Firewater's joked references about political overtones -- to be taken at more than just face value.
Two, to criticise the testing criteria for the judges' scoring. We cannot know in what environment the judges tested the game, except that if it holds any pretenses of approaching respectability, it could only have been something completely separate from the way 99% of public players experienced the game. If the judges were truly able to wrangle a gaming experience of any positive kind from it, then they have achieved something most people who downloaded the public beta did not. Thus they were play-testing a game separate to the one experienced by most players, in our naive expectation that it would work in some degree by connecting to an available online server.
Do you really want to do this? Your (collective, 'opponents to our constructive criticism') repeated attacks and uninspired trolling forces me to defend myself and my position. Full steam ahead, then:
- By not reviewing the mod in the way that players are expected to experience it, they are providing an unrealistic presentation of the game, one that does not approach the reality of the situation.
- The current levels of players and servers providing the mod reflects two things: Either a mod so unpopular in its delivery that nobody desires to play it, and/or a mod so buggy that nobody who desired to could play the mod in any public or popular capacity. By reviewing a mod so inaccessible to the public, IGF have demonstrated the inferiority of their testing criteria. They thus have reviewed a mod based on its projected potential to the public, rather than on any kind of reality. You may as well give it 10/10 based on its website's features list rather than its effective delivery of them, as nobody online can currently experience or appreciate the "ground-breaking" features as they stand.
From the very start, I have maintained a constant opinion of the mod, the award and the situation. I'll recount them here so nobody is confused and continues attacking my position as if I held another one:
1. ESMod has put a lot of effort into the mod. This is commendable, but not enough to justify a "mod of the year" award on its own, excepting of course for incredibly lackluster competition.
2. The mod is currently unplayable, by definition "accessible to the online public in any form that approaches an entertaining experience". Hell, you could do without the "entertaining experience" and it would still apply. I just don't want to leave myself open to "well hell, I've loaded up the game by myself and sat still for three minutes, it hasn't crashed yet!"
3. The mod still has a lot of work to go, but it could become entertaining. I look forward to this day.
4. Regardless of the postulated feature list or the number of lines of code, due to the unplayable nature of the game, they are effectively nullified and become irrelevant.
5. IGF have, by scoring a mod based on, effectively, its potential rather than the reality of its condition, degraded their own respectability and worth of opinion. This is obvious enough from the incredulous public response.
6. Mods are games, games are meant to be played. It is a free mod, it is open to the public, the intended audience/target is the general gamer public.
7. Thus IGF have a responsibility to score the game according to how the general gaming public, the intended demographic, can expect to receive and play the game.
Any questions?
Meh, I'm tired >_>
In any case, are you 2 forum trolls or something? Took you like 5 mins apiece to respond <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
At least I could help with the link.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess any different opinion to the status quo is "trolling", just because our arguements atleast make sense in theory doesn't mean its trolling, sorry man, try again.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, where is the +respect button? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
You keep stating the mod is unplayable, yet it isn't. Unplayable does not mean that there's no one playing it, it means it doesn't run, or the basic features don't work correctly, but the basic features of ES DO work correctly, and it does run
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By your standards, that means that Daikatana is playable (it works), Britney Spears is listenable (the sound waves reach your ears) and Plan 9 From Outer Space is watchable (someone actually bothered to record that movie and distribute it)
Yet I have my doubts that any of these deserve any sort of award for their greatness.
<a href="http://www.eternal-silence.net/forums/index.php?topic=3228.0" target="_blank">http://www.eternal-silence.net/forums/index.php?topic=3228.0</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, so I noticed this mod got a very distinguished award and I was like wow! How did I miss this mod? So I download it right away epecting atleast a few servers to be full of players then to my suprise what do I find? Not a single person playing? What the heck? Come on guys lets get some games going I really wana try out this mod properly and the most I got to do was a 1v1 dogfight.............<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that supports our point quite well.
There's no need to attack the mod. We've made our point about the absurdity of the award, upheld it against ridiculous trolls, and not resorted to flames or near-personal attacks like some other people in this thread. Be gracious in both victory and defeat, eh Firewater wot wot.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that quote came across as an attack, then I apologize. I am only attempting to mound evidence for my claim, as I made a point about getting mod of the year but nobody being able to play it.
I was not aware of any victory, nor did seek to achieve said victory in a non-gracious way. I am merely just providing evidence to counter the claims made by others on this forum.
So the question is, what is this flaw? That would be the most relevant topic for debate.
The way I see it, the criticisms of the mod as unplayed really has no place, as the criterion of "number of players/servers" is not particularly relevant. However, the fact that it is unplayed points at some deeper flaw with the mod.
So the question is, what is this flaw? That would be the most relevant topic for debate.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
while I agree player/server ratio should not be the sole criterion for achieving mod of the year, a multiplayer mod that gets the award should have SOME servers up, wouldn't you agree? I am they advertise that they won an award which is going to stimulate some interest, though those people may be disappointed when after they spend the time downloading it anticipating a great game to play.
What they get in return for their excitement as of right now is <u>nothing</u>. There are no servers up, nobody else to play against. Does that sound like mod of the year to you? If it is so great, I would figure at least the dev team would have some servers up despite just having one map or whatever other excuses they make.
It just seems sad that a multiplayer mod gets mod of the year and nobody can play it.
Nobody plays it because the mod sucks. Why does the mod suck? Debate.
I'm saying that due to its current state that people cannot play it, and a mod that nobody can play when the award is given out, should be honored with Mod of the Year.
Well said!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Valuable input.
Valuable input.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Valuable input.
<!--quoteo(post=1592534:date=Dec 29 2006, 11:37 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thaldarin @ Dec 29 2006, 11:37 PM) [snapback]1592534[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Valuable input.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Valuable input.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Valuable input.
<!--coloro:#666666--><span style="color:#666666"><!--/coloro-->3<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--> times a charm<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Anyway, this mod has potential. And I would probably try it out. But yeh if there are no players or servers for that matter. Then the waiting game starts <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
LOCKING.
(I've already cleaned this post out once, if people aren't bright enough, I'm not doing it again)