Blog update - NS survey results
Flayra
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Comments
Geez, were the makers of HL ever thankful <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />?!
$parki <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
- People like the game as is (obviously, if most respondents have been playing for four years!)
- Don't change the game too much for the sequel (except update the graphics)
This feedback has reaffirmed my belief that NS2 should be roughly 66% different from the original.
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? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
<a href="http://actionvault.ign.com/features/interviews/tribes2.shtml" target="_blank">http://actionvault.ign.com/features/interviews/tribes2.shtml</a>
One key issue I can remember about T2 on release:
1. It lacked the connection from the original community due to it's differences.
2. Got canceled due to low sales.
3. It eventually became better with "Classic" mode, and old school maps,
after being rehauled by GarageGames, but that was too little too late.
Tribes 3?
Got canceled before they even put out the first multiplayer patch.
But it sure did have a lot of new things and improvements.
Hell, it even had an MTV Music video and a full blown single player mode.
I liked the mention of:
"When we started doing design on this game, we wanted to ensure that not only were we adding new weapons, but we were also rethinking the existing packs and items to ensure that every single one of them was useful in its own right. Many games have a ton of items that are merely duplicates of other items, thus depriving them of any uniqueness or usefulness. I think we've done a great job of avoiding that trap."
"It offered a fresh form of gameplay to the first person shooter genre thanks to its focus on cooperative gaming in a multiplayer environment. While still providing simple modes such as deathmatch, Tribes thrived on situations that encouraged teamwork, with players assuming different responsibilities to better ensure victory against competing groups. Considering the nature of the game and its commercial success, it seemed only fitting that Tribes would spawn a loyal community. It is one that has remained relatively intact up to this day...."
I guess it really comes down to a question of whether NS2's community will be built upon
Current players, or New players. And which ones should be catered towards.
Maybe I'm wrong,
But I don't really see how changing MOST the game is going to cater to the original community.
I don't think you can go wrong with the 1:1:1 rule.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any particular reason?
Or do you have none?
you need to think of it as
"81% of our [survey respondents] are between"
as you did later in the article.
1000 web surveyed may not give you the accurate results you want to rely on... a steam survey would be better since it is unique AND can hit the entire population playing within period of time.
attracts a new player base with exciting new features.
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Uhm, Everything would be new, to new players.
So thats a moot point there.
<!--quoteo(post=1597738:date=Jan 12 2007, 12:38 AM:name=DigitalAnthrax)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DigitalAnthrax @ Jan 12 2007, 12:38 AM) [snapback]1597738[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
It keeps the old players in with the old stuff<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even though most of the original stuff would be removed from the sequel.....
? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That surprised me as well. These results obviously shouldn't be taken as a bible... the vast majority of respondents are people who are already involved enough in NS to take notice of surveys posted on the main page. They're already fans so it makes sense they wouldn't want much changed.
One of the major goals of NS2 should be to attract new players. I don't think an NS:S style port will do that. I think I'm more zealous about change than many people here (I'd go 50% new, 25% improved 25% same myself) but I think things are moving in the right direction.
yey im diffrent! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
(i found my current Boyfriend through online play ,and it happens to be Natural Selection!)
Also,Reducing the learning curve can be tricky to implement,seeing NS is not your average game.
its quite diffrent to most of the HL mods i've played/seen.
how about a singleplayer option,where you get a tutorial that is playable.
ec 2 scenarios with botties.o hell i dunno.My first experience with NS was that of a brick wall (i sucketheth at it),i still do,but at least now i know what im doing!
This is because the average NS player i played with when i was new,actually found time to tell me useful things (perhaps the difficulty of the mod ,makes the players more helpful)
but yes,good luck on reducing the learningcurve drastically without having to change alot of things in NS that makes it so very special....
If you had a cap of 500 on the survey and you just posted it on the main page, you're very likely to get responses from the hardcore page-refreshing individuals. The fact that 43% of them have played since the beginning is evidence enough that the survey is biased.
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The final cap was 1000. I believe a survey like this is going to be biased towards the hardcore regardless of what the cap is, since it is targeted at the members of the forum (which realistically is the only way we can do something like this). This doesn't really make it invalid though, as what the hardcore audience likes and dislikes about NS is where we need the most information going forward.
What surprised me the most about the survey was how quickly we hit the cap. Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond to it.
Max
Anyways, definitely keep up on the frequent updates. Instead of Bungie weekly updates, I would rather read Unknown Worlds Weekly Updates... the (UWWU) "U double-W U" if you like tongue twisters!).
I would also gladly go for longer games!
If you're going to keep combat, keep that for the people who want the short games for the casual gamer... For the people who commit, they have the long NS games.
For example, if you only have 5 mins to play at home, would you pop in say Gears of War? Or would you rather play a title such as Zuma? You would go for Zuma. Trying to bring Gears MP (for sake of argument) down to a 5 min time-frame would not be the same game since you would be messing with game mechanics to truncate the experience into the suggested time frame... This is why I really don't play NS anymore. To me, it just sort of feels you guys messed with the core gameplay mechanics of NS to allow the casual gamer to play actual NS matches... That wasn't the best design choice I believe, but I see why you made it.
I wish you guys would have allowed NS matches to remain longer (similar to the Gears matches) and still have Combat for those who only have a few minutes (similar in a way to Zuma)... Trying to bring everything down to a casual gamer really really really loses its appeal to the true hardcore gamer who has the time.
Anyways, I can't wait to hear more Charlie! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
RENAME 'COMBAT' TO 'TRAINING'.
Or 'Combat Training', tr_ or ct_. Its only a name-change, but that alone would address the issues of every ns-addict who cant stand how many new players do nothing but CO and then believe that that is what NS is really about. Its NOT. It's fun, sure, but goddamnit, its on the same level as CS. Sure, its fun, and i played CS for about 4 years straight. But nothing is as good as ns classic. Co is training for ns classic. It should be named as such.
As for the survey... yeah, i bought HL again for NS, and know a few friends who did the same. But you should really consider keeping the gameplay near identical. Some additions, like handheld MT sensors etc (there are a lot of quality suggestions in the I&S section, but the best would have to wait till NS:S at least) would be awesome fun and truly evolve the gameplay. But, the fundamental gameplay would be the same, as it should be.
Ive played every game under the sun and simply nothing compares to the great games of NS (though even the crap games of ns are still better than most other games). If you think you can somehow overhaul the system and make it even better, then goddamn, power to ya. But my bets would be against it actually being better. If you have all these great new ideas, maybe start a new brand. It can still be aliens vs marines etc, and Unknownworlds could become a serious if not top name in the Aliens genre.
But even adding 1/3 new material and concepts to NS would be like adding ~2 new aliens, a new Chamber (with 3 new upgrades), a new ability per alien class, 2 new guns, 5 new marine buildings... thats a stupidly large amount of content. Try balancing that. Hell, look at how long it took to balance the addition of just hand grenades and self-heal. And those were when everything else was controlled!
My suggestion for a more realistic goal: 70% same, 20% improved (not including graphics), 10% new.
That doesnt include non-gameplay items. Dynamic infestation (etc) would not be a gameplay item.
The final cap was 1000. I believe a survey like this is going to be biased towards the hardcore regardless of what the cap is, since it is targeted at the members of the forum (which realistically is the only way we can do something like this). This doesn't really make it invalid though, as what the hardcore audience likes and dislikes about NS is where we need the most information going forward.
What surprised me the most about the survey was how quickly we hit the cap. Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond to it.
Max
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I agree with your first sentence. I don't agree with your second sentence. What the hardcore audience likes/dislikes about NS is not necessarily the info you need to go forward. It could just as easily be the source of ideals and values that will keep NS2 from appealing to a wider audience. In no way am I saying that the survey is worthless. What I am saying is that parts of it, especially those where it seems that the players are agreeing with what you are thinking, may really not be in the best interests of the game. The danger with such surveys is that since the hardcore community has stuck with you for this long, they are more likely to agree with you and to promote group-think, which can be dangerous.
One of the major goals of NS2 should be to attract new players. I don't think an NS:S style port will do that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've yet to see any arguement to see why it wouldn't.
If anything merely the exposure from Steam is what would attract new players.
That and word of mouth advertising from original community members.
For those who are uninitiated with the original game, the classic formula would be entirely "new features" to them.
Whether it's new or old to original community members would make zero difference.
_
Insisting on massive "New" content, is based off of the sad assumption that this game is driven by content.
Do you really think for a second that you have people playing off of 9 year old software because of the content?
Content driven design is based off of an anachronism reserved for solo games and mmorpgs.
Multiplayer FPS games are driven by Gameplay.
Teamplay, the Unique advantage of this game, is driven by the Community.
However if you insist on forfieting whats truely important.
Solid gameplay at launch, as well as unanimous community support.
Then you're setting yourself up for failure.
Since any half assed developer can slap together content, and make something "new".
More work for you but everyone will be happy \o/
If youre going for longer games in ns2 it would be nice if you made a new mapmode just for it with maybe bigger maps and whatever changes you need, because i really like it the way it is now.
More work for you but everyone will be happy \o/
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Much of the old hour long games before were propped up by OC/T spam.
As well as a healthy dose of hiding/camping.
It'd be tricky to figure out a way to extend things without creating timesinks.
A new different map type would probably be the best way to do that though.
Since you could just change the objectives, rather than changing the gameplay.
But, lets see em work out fundamentals before they create extras. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Especially since additional game modes can serve to divide the the community.
I'd hate to see what rule of thumb they used for Quake 4 and Doom 3 then.
29% bought a copy of Half-life to play NS
If this is true, then I estimate NS has sold around 50,000 copies of Half-life<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I bet most of them bought a copy of Half-life after they needed steam to play NS, because of all this anti piracy stuff launched by valve especially considering cd-keys.
I bet most of them bought a copy of Half-life after they needed steam to play NS, because of all this anti piracy stuff launched by valve especially considering cd-keys.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->or 29% were CS-Hacking §$%& and VAC banned, and needed a new Steam-account to play ns <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
That's well over four years. I find this a bit incredible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wow.... 43%? 43% of 1000?
more than 430ppl are playing ns for more than 4 years? no wai!
43%. hard to believe. but i guess a lot of ppl actually dont know when and with what version NS released, and as said before, some just answer with this because they <u>wish</u>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Most respondents play for the teamplay
...not "strategy", "commanding", "ambience" or "setting", but for "teamplay".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"who goes comm?" --- "comm??" --- "WE NEED A COMM!!" --- "i dont want but if noone else does.." xD
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->29% bought a copy of Half-life to play NS<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lets hope these 29% will also buy NS2 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
i hope that survey helps to make NS2 a great success, even when only a small piece of the community was able to take part
Im acutally surprised that the numbers weren't scewed any more.
For NS2 to make money Flayra should be basing his decisions off of all gamers not just this little hole in the internet.
A much better way to gauge the community would be, in my opinion, to include a survey with the installer for 3.2 (final)
The game is too complicated for CS player who come to NS.
Although in a way i think thats kinda whats so good about it... it never gets old beacuse of the fact that you can always improve. Clan mates are always saying, yeah i got to improve my skulk/fade/lmg etc. What other games can you feel so many skills are necessary?
I think you should keep the simple controls and make the game seem simple on the surface, but for there to be alot more in the game so you cant stop playing.
But in my opinion, you should get payed loads for NS i personally bought hl for NS alone, play hl for a total of about 5mins over the last year.. and i hated it.
And i like the idea of having 3 game modes (metioned earlier..), Co (lol), classic ns (game time of around 10 - 55mins) and modern classic (game time of 120+ mins) would be well awesome.
Also, I personally think the strongest thing in NS is the fear factor. I ###### love playing as a marine, checking every crevaice for a skulk, (or fade :S), i think you must keep this for NS2, i dont think ill play it much if it doesnt have the fear factor.