Blog update - We're going to need bigger guns

Max · April 2007

Please post your thoughts on the <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/blog/2007/04/were_going_to_need_bigger_guns_1.html" target="_blank">latest blog entry</a> here.

Max

Ahnteis · April 2007

Love the concept art. In fact, if it were a bit wider, it'd be wallpaper now.

On the concept of guns--one thing that I think NS2 needs is more of a branching tech (weapons) tree on the marine side.

I hope you're considering *multiple* guns with different attributes to allow for that. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

And if should want someone to play through some test levels, I'd like to be the first... er... fifteen-hundredth to volunteer!

Zor2 · April 2007

The 'Modular machinery" art looks simply amazing. Instantly recognisable as NS for me. I love the brown-ish light seeping in from the top as well.

Guns look good too! I think no.11 is my favourite.

Much appreciated update!

Pikminwars · April 2007

Just made "Modular machinery" my background. Awesome stuff. The gun concept art looks very nice too.

grepdashv · April 2007

Other than the bugs related to the reloading of the shotgun and the GL, my biggest gripes with the NS1 weapon set is that the guns aren't properly aligned to the gun-roles. For NS2, it would be great to see a sub-machine gun (think P90) for CQB, an assault rifle, an appropriate (i.e., low damage and accuracy) pistol, a semi-realistic shotgun (slower RoF, slower reload, way better accuracy than the NS1 SG -- think slugs or extremely tightly grouped pellets), and a knife that is truly a weapon of last resort (e.g., half the RoF of NS1). It might also be interesting to offer a machine gun that must be deployed to use (very powerful but absolutely requires teamwork to be useful). Naturally, a flamethrower could offer an interesting twist, especially if it is somehow related to the dynamic infestation. The welder should be part of the standard loadout. Weapon tech should slowly unlock additional options. In NS1 terms, the shotgun wouldn't be instantly available, and the HMG and GL would each take less time to unlock but would be unlocked individually. Damage and health numbers should be increased in scale so that weapon ugrades can be more easily balanced without running into fractional values (yuck). In RTS fashion, perhaps more than just "damage" upgrades could be offered. Potential additions would be things like mag size increases, RoF increases, accuracy increases, etc. Dual-mode mines (prox/trip) would be nifty.

Chocolate · April 2007

Love the update, those guns look cool. Here's my oppinion on them:

<span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><b>My gun critique:</b></span>

<b>#1</b> It could work as a GL I think.

<b>#3</b> looks pretty good, i think it would be a cross between a HMG and a LMG (maybe a MMG?). Looks like a bulked down version of the HMG to me.

<b>#5</b> definatly looks like a assault rifle. It looks nice tho!

<b>#6</b> heh, that looks like a gun from CS <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

<b>#8</b> that one looks nice, could work as a LMG.

<b>#11</b> that one is really cool! It looks like a small sub machine gun or a semi-automatic pistol.

<b>#17</b> looks like a upgraded light machine gun

<b>#18</b> i've never been a fan of bulked up guns, might work as a flamethrower tho.

<b>#20</b> thats an interesting concept

<b>#21</b> that would make one mean of a machine gun. It might work better as GL or a rocket propeled grenade launcher. I really like this one!

<b>#22</b> that looks like a almost sub machine gun to me. I think this works pretty well as a LMG or near that kind of gun.

<b>#26 - #28</b> This looks like a mini grenade launcher <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> .

<b>#29</b> could work as a accurate machine gun/sniper.

These are just my less than perfect critiques. These are the first things that came to mind when looking at them.

<span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><b>Notes is general:</b></span>
- I like the idea of a handle on the gun to hold it instead of the traditional way of holding guns. What I mean is the thing thats on pictures 2 - 8 but isnt on 7 or 23.

- You could add a odd reload function to each of the guns. Thats the main way I can easily tell Ns guns for any other guns. Maybe a GL with a reload slot at the butt of the weapon? maybe a LMG with a clip at the top (now its at the side)?

This was a more than long ramble.... meh... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

Trojan · April 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(grepdashv @ Apr 12 2007, 11:00 AM) [snapback]1620410[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Other than the bugs related to the reloading of the shotgun and the GL, my biggest gripes with the NS1 weapon set is that the guns aren't properly aligned to the gun-roles. :words: Dual-mode mines (prox/trip) would be nifty.
</div>

On that note, multiple ammunition types would be awesome. From something simple like slugs/pellets for the shotguns, to AP upgrades for other weapons, even explosive rounds. You could even take it one step (too) further and have smart rounds.

Of course, balancing that would be a comedy in errors

NS-SkorpioN · April 2007

I love those concept arts, beautiful and impressive design!

Thx so much for keeping showing us the advanced in the development of NS2!

The LMGs designs I like, are these:

#11

#26

Warrior · April 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(grepdashv @ Apr 11 2007, 06:00 PM) [snapback]1620410[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Other than the bugs related to the reloading of the shotgun and the GL, my biggest gripes with the NS1 weapon set is that the guns aren't properly aligned to the gun-roles. For NS2, it would be great to see a sub-machine gun (think P90) for CQB, an assault rifle, an appropriate (i.e., low damage and accuracy) pistol, a semi-realistic shotgun (slower RoF, slower reload, way better accuracy than the NS1 SG -- think slugs or extremely tightly grouped pellets), and a knife that is truly a weapon of last resort (e.g., half the RoF of NS1). It might also be interesting to offer a machine gun that must be deployed to use (very powerful but absolutely requires teamwork to be useful). Naturally, a flamethrower could offer an interesting twist, especially if it is somehow related to the dynamic infestation. The welder should be part of the standard loadout. Weapon tech should slowly unlock additional options. In NS1 terms, the shotgun wouldn't be instantly available, and the HMG and GL would each take less time to unlock but would be unlocked individually. Damage and health numbers should be increased in scale so that weapon ugrades can be more easily balanced without running into fractional values (yuck). In RTS fashion, perhaps more than just "damage" upgrades could be offered. Potential additions would be things like mag size increases, RoF increases, accuracy increases, etc. Dual-mode mines (prox/trip) would be nifty.
</div>

I like some of your ideas.

Cool concept art. Love that drawing of the machinery. Wish I could draw like that.

HBNayr · April 2007

If I might my opinion on what I think would be distinctive for a game keeping in the science fiction theme...

Israel has a remarkable <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMI_Tavor_TAR-21" target="_blank">assault rifle</a> that places the barrel further back into the stock of the gun the have a shorter overall length and allow soldiers more control in close quarters situations. It's what I would pick to go skulk hunting.

Taking that into the future, a weapon could be collapsible, and open at the touch of a button. Selecting the LMG could show a quick animation of a too-short assault rifle being pulled out, then tilted up and away from the body as the player sees the weapon's stock pops out and the action slides into place. The player's hands load a clip into the chamber and smoothly move the LMG to their shoulder.

I suppose you could have a scope pop out that can't be used, as a sort of homage to the original, but that's up to you. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

Also, there is an animation with the knife in the original game I have seen all of twice in my times of playing. The marine apparently becomes bored and decides to try to balance to knife on its point. I'm sure you've seen it if you've played as a marine for any length of time. Is there any way to trigger that animation without developers' tools?

At any rate, keep <i>that</i> animation, if you can.

-Ryan!

"Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion."
-- L. Ron Hubbard in an interview with Reader's Digest; he went on to found Scientology

schkorpio · April 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(grepdashv @ Apr 12 2007, 11:00 AM) [snapback]1620410[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Other than the bugs related to the reloading of the shotgun and the GL, my biggest gripes with the NS1 weapon set is that the guns aren't properly aligned to the gun-roles. For NS2, it would be great to see a sub-machine gun (think P90) for CQB, an assault rifle, an appropriate (i.e., low damage and accuracy) pistol, a semi-realistic shotgun (slower RoF, slower reload, way better accuracy than the NS1 SG -- think slugs or extremely tightly grouped pellets), and a knife that is truly a weapon of last resort (e.g., half the RoF of NS1). It might also be interesting to offer a machine gun that must be deployed to use (very powerful but absolutely requires teamwork to be useful). Naturally, a flamethrower could offer an interesting twist, especially if it is somehow related to the dynamic infestation. The welder should be part of the standard loadout. Weapon tech should slowly unlock additional options. In NS1 terms, the shotgun wouldn't be instantly available, and the HMG and GL would each take less time to unlock but would be unlocked individually. Damage and health numbers should be increased in scale so that weapon ugrades can be more easily balanced without running into fractional values (yuck). In RTS fashion, perhaps more than just "damage" upgrades could be offered. Potential additions would be things like mag size increases, RoF increases, accuracy increases, etc. Dual-mode mines (prox/trip) would be nifty.
</div>

I certainly hope your role on the dev team isnt game design - cause those ideas are terrible, especially the deployable turrent - its the future, turrets are automatic for starters, plus it doesnt work the way it should in games like DoD and is just purely an annoying class to play.
Dual mode Proxy/Trip mines? why would anyone choose trip option when proxy is harder to spot and will only explode when someone is in the area of damage. trip = much less effective.

I would like to see more weapons but not for novelties sake - thats what the jaykin' bacon' mod is for <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

Bigbio2002 · April 2007

Numbers 1, 11, and 29 look like they "fit" within the NS universe. The machine thingy looks pretty kickass too, I'd definitely love to see some interactivity added to the eye candy as well. That's what I hate about games sometimes, they have all these cool things sitting around, but they don't DO anything!

Varsity · April 2007

I really hope that concept piece is going to be submitted to Into the Pixel. It's right up there with last year's winners. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

pSyk0mAn · April 2007

...(and one that is not so familiar).
ZOMG It's the flamethrower !!1 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

Nice concepts and the picture of that machine looks just awesome.

KainTSA · April 2007

Niiiiice work. Glad to see you guys are thinking hard about weapon design.

Very nice atmospheric shot too. I could picture a hive hanging on the right hand side there.

scaryface · April 2007

I like! Incorporating biotech into guns for style? The concept is cool, but i think it's just as important that the gun would be practical in the situation it's designed to be used in (closed quarters combat) and not just be focused on looking cool. The gun that HBNayr pointed out seems like a good starting point. a collapsible stock like in 21 would be nice though.

sherpa · April 2007

nice concepts. the weapon ones aren't particularly original- but i reckon assault-rifle-of-the-not-too-distant-future has been done to death.

the environment concept is great

Haze · April 2007

What I really like about all the weapons in Natural-Selection now is that they're very unique feeling. The LMG loads from the side, not the bottom, like you see in almost every weapon in existance. The HMG has a sort of hugging clip that loads through the center. The grenade launcher has a revolver-esque feel to it (another very unique feeling gun). If anything, I support finding all the quirky guns of modern/past days, and combining them into one ultra quirk for each weapon you need.

For the love of god stop drawing those things loading from the bottom ;D

KainTSA · April 2007

Agreed Haze. The reload animation for the LMG really is great and nothing beats the feeling of firing a GL, watching the chamber rotate around.

Keep them somewhat realistic looking but with some unique aspects. I'm curious (and a little scared) as to what a more "organic" look might be for the next set.

exoity · April 2007

I really like some of the sketches, however, it is suppose to be a <b>light</b> machine gun. While sketches 5 and 11 (looks a lot like a P90) are great sketches, the fit more a heavy machine gun type look. I personally enjoy 29 the most (sort of reminds me of the Halo AR for some reason) as it seems close to the current lmg, but seeing as how technology is suppose to be given an upgrade I would choice 12. I also think some of them just seem like weapon hybrids, 31 for instance reminds me of a joint between the current shotgun and lmg.

Talis · April 2007

I like 1, 10, 11, 12, 21

Max · April 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KainTSA @ Apr 12 2007, 03:01 PM) [snapback]1620579[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Keep them somewhat realistic looking but with some unique aspects. I'm curious (and a little scared) as to what a more "organic" look might be for the next set.
</div>
Today we saw the new versions that Nate worked up, so I can answer the question of how the weapons will look with some more organic elements in them -- the answer is <i>totally awesome</i>.

Max

Scythe · April 2007

For a few of these concept sketches it very much looked like the star trek phaser rifle thingo was used as a reference for the sketch.

<img src="http://www.costumesandprops.com/graphics/Nakada-sideview600.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
<img src="http://www.frontiermodels.co.uk/images/products/phaser.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

Cool, sure, but not quite NSish.

I quite liked the side loading LMG, made sense I suppose. Unless you were left-handed. :>

I'd be looking for something small, cheap, light and compact for an LMG feel. The TSA is strapped for cash and can't afford to make big fancy guns. At least in the NS1 timeframe they were.

That environment concept just screams "zomg I am NS". That scale-like, overlapping plating on the bottom middle has gotta be made into a texture or I'm telling mum.

--Scythe--

rsd · April 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Max @ Apr 13 2007, 07:17 AM) [snapback]1620663[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Today we saw the new versions that Nate worked up, so I can answer the question of how the weapons will look with some more organic elements in them -- the answer is <i>totally awesome</i>.

Max
</div>

Could we bribe you with beer to update the post with the latest concept sketches? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />

quazilin · April 2007

Fantastic stuff...

Erdman · April 2007

when the aliens get more bigger, faster, stronger species

the marines get out bigger, stronger, faster, Boomer, and Bad-asser guns

Obraxis · April 2007

Fantastic stuff <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> Concept art is rather nice to see. I'm curious if you guys will be showing off any of the 3D Art, or will this not be shown before until much closer to release?

Haze · April 2007

I always liked NS's gritty appearance, try not to do away with that when you work on making things organic. To me, NS was a mixture of both, where aliens would be the very organic, "alive" feeling side, where the marine's were just brute force feeling, still using bullets instead of some 'phaser' technology, grenades, scratched and dinged armor - nothing fancy, just necessary and simultaneously bad***.

Max · April 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Obraxis @ Apr 13 2007, 12:43 PM) [snapback]1620745[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>Fantastic stuff <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> Concept art is rather nice to see. I'm curious if you guys will be showing off any of the 3D Art, or will this not be shown before until much closer to release?
</div>
We'll show off some 3d stuff as soon as we can present it in a form that looks polished. Our hope is that when we release the first screen shots they'll be seen by lot of people who aren't necessarily familiar with the original NS, so we want to make sure we make a good impression. We're not sure when we'll have something we're comfortable showing off, but at the rate things are going this will probably be pretty soon.

Max

BluePhish · April 2007

Hey, that was a nice Update. That Conecpt Art reminds me on Hera Ventilation <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />

Also the LMG which looked like a G36c would be great ingame, with a cool heavy sound.

But why just 1 lmg, 4 different we be awsome!!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />

Epidemic · April 2007

31 different sketches, just for the LMG, hmm. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

Anyway, some of them do look abit too modern-like and too much semblance to CS-like weapons to me. Although when they get texture on I might change my mind <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

I like #21

Blog update - We're going to need bigger guns

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