Armed Forces
Thaldarin
Alonzi! Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
Alonzi! Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Your experiences/views on them</div>So tomorrow I'm phoning up for an RAF application form and so forth. I've took the last 48 hours to do some very stupid stuff and get very drunk and decide where I will head in life and decided, that's where I'm headed. I've looked at the careers etc. although in the end the guidance of the assessor will help me decide what to choose.
I was just wondering what experiences have people on the forums had working with or in any of the armed forces for their nations? Just to give me more of an insight than I already have, considering I'm just finishing off my Public Services course I'm more prepared than most of my age.
EDIT: To those that love me, yes this is an excellent chance for me to die <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I was just wondering what experiences have people on the forums had working with or in any of the armed forces for their nations? Just to give me more of an insight than I already have, considering I'm just finishing off my Public Services course I'm more prepared than most of my age.
EDIT: To those that love me, yes this is an excellent chance for me to die <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Comments
You sign a stronger, less tentative, and shorter spanning contract than with a civilian job, but other than that...
Two of my buddies are going to be marines, a third just got back from a tour in Iraq. He is... slightly off kilter ever since... Being 20 and shot at will do that to you.
That's kind of a subset of the whole "chain of command" thing. In the armed forces you're 100% subservient to whoever's above you, because otherwise you'd have everyone questioning orders and stuff and you'd never get anything done. Some people are turned off by the way a soldier turns himself halfway into a slave, almost.
Other people just don't like the military (or the police) because they see them as an oppressive offshoot of the government. They're the only people who have ever shot at war protesters and they're the most visible method for a government to oppress its people. If you've got a problem with authority, the armed forces are the ultimate authority.
Other people see the military as the place only hyper-patriotic wackos join out of free will, while everyone else is poor or something and is kind of forced in to it because they don't have other options. They feel like the only person who would really want to fight for a living is kind of messed up.
That's just my impression though. I've never really asked anybody why they're not big on joining the military. I just assume those are the most common reasons, and with a lot of peopel it's probably some mix of that.
Basically, the Marine Corps would be just fine if we had a workers union. But we don't. So you get treated like ish, hazed, yelled at, on the daily, even when you haven't done anything wrong. Your leaders are acting irritated just because they can. Now, you'd understand if the work wasn't getting done, but it is. Suddenly your uniforms are out of regs, your haircut looks sloppy, your boots look dirty, you're not using a respectful enough tone, the bullsh*t is endless.
I didn't know that people in the military were so insecure. I thought before I joined that when you hooked up with your unit and had been there for a while, things were cool, everyone got along like a real team, and you really felt a sense of cameraderie that you could never feel anywhere else.
Well, I've got 2 years left. Not the end of the world.
The stigma against the armed forces comes from a whole lot of different places. It's the only job, for instance, where you can basically be ordered to kill people. Not just like, 1 guy in your whole career if you're unlucky like a cop, but like, a bunch of people, if you're dropping bombs or something. Some people think there's something wrong with you if you're willing to kill en masse just because someone tells you to.
That's kind of a subset of the whole "chain of command" thing. In the armed forces you're 100% subservient to whoever's above you, because otherwise you'd have everyone questioning orders and stuff and you'd never get anything done. Some people are turned off by the way a soldier turns himself halfway into a slave, almost.
Other people just don't like the military (or the police) because they see them as an oppressive offshoot of the government. They're the only people who have ever shot at war protesters and they're the most visible method for a government to oppress its people. If you've got a problem with authority, the armed forces are the ultimate authority.
Other people see the military as the place only hyper-patriotic wackos join out of free will, while everyone else is poor or something and is kind of forced in to it because they don't have other options. They feel like the only person who would really want to fight for a living is kind of messed up.
That's just my impression though. I've never really asked anybody why they're not big on joining the military. I just assume those are the most common reasons, and with a lot of peopel it's probably some mix of that.
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Again this is part of the job. I'll keep using doctors just because it's what comes to mind.
Some people don't like doctors because they think they are just pill pushers. Some think they are going against nature and these kinds of people only eat vegetables and such. Others are against them for religious purposes.
Some just don't trust doctors. Other's are against the entire educational system that produces doctors, believing it's just a way to keep the rich in power so they can get richer.
None of these things make everyone stop and think about whether or not being a doctor is a worthwhile career choice.
AND in some branches or MOS of the military, you'd be lucky to SEE an enemy, let alone shoot him/her. It's rare for soldiers to have epically large confirmed kill counts, if I read my history correctly. It's a job that pays pretty well for people who either like or don't mind the things that the job entails.
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I'll elaborate.. I didn't want to, I get tired of talking about this crap.
Basically, the Marine Corps would be just fine if we had a workers union. But we don't. So you get treated like ish, hazed, yelled at, on the daily, even when you haven't done anything wrong. Your leaders are acting irritated just because they can. Now, you'd understand if the work wasn't getting done, but it is. Suddenly your uniforms are out of regs, your haircut looks sloppy, your boots look dirty, you're not using a respectful enough tone, the bullsh*t is endless.
I didn't know that people in the military were so insecure. I thought before I joined that when you hooked up with your unit and had been there for a while, things were cool, everyone got along like a real team, and you really felt a sense of cameraderie that you could never feel anywhere else.
Well, I've got 2 years left. Not the end of the world.
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I've heard this from some of my other buddies in the Marine Corps, too. The hazing and such is tolerable in boot camp where it serves a purpose, but afterward. I get the feeling that theres a few too many officers with chips on their shoulders.
As I've already stated in my thread regarding mandatory military service out of high school, the experience will truly make a man out of you and help to prepare you for adulthood by instilling confidence in yourself, teaching you discipline and teamwork, and learning how to get along with others - even those you may not care for.
Take advantage of it and get all the education you can from it. Another benefit is you get to travel to places around the world you'd otherwise not get to see. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Both my parent's served in the Army and they were stationed in Germany for a few years in the mid to late 70's, and never really left their base. They were accountants in the same division, which is how they met.
But leading a squad and directing artillery fire weren't the only things I learned in the army. I also learned to (more easily) put trust into other people, respect those above me, and those situations where I could've #¤%&"@ died of frustration and desperation make todays setbacks feel a lot less bad <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
But a military career? Definitely not for me, but I can see how some people are motivated and more fitting to take a job in the army.
According to this the "war on terror" is a "war of terror".
So if you join the us military you are bound to get shipped over you will have to live with that. If you can live with that its fine. Go ahead and do so. Just remember that you are going to encounter situations that nothing can prepare you for. No training, no shrinks, simply nothing.
You either spare a day every week in highschool in an army program and opt out of the mandatory draft, or you drew the lot at the end of highschool.
Most people do the first, rich people drew the lot (we have certain 'means' to make sure you drew the right lot if you have connections and money), poor people enlisted.
It's simply disruptive, it doesn't really accomplish anything. I still don't understand why we haven't stop this mandatory service yet.
If you have a problem getting "ordered to kill people" re: defending your country then go ahead and file for conscientious objector status, or don't bother enlisting.
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Not every kill made by the army is to "defend the country".
I can understand people willing to kill for what they believe in, willing to kill for their notion of their great nation.
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actually, thats exactly whats ###### up in this world. and no i cant understand it
I enjoyed basic training and exercises outdoors, running around with weapons and winter training allowing us to ski, do search and rescue in a fake avalanche 20*C below zero ++. I really enjoyed the physical challenges. But a lot of the officers didn't seem to deserve even their low wages when looking at their work.
And I saw how much resources and vast sums NATO would waste on stuff they didn't need. Like brand new antenna parks spread around the coast which turned out not working, costing 20ish million dollars. Yeah, the military can be very bureaucratic when you come to the higher levels of command. I saw high ranking officers spending a quarter of the time smoking, and another quarter getting coffee for themselves. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
Again this is part of the job. I'll keep using doctors just because it's what comes to mind.
Some people don't like doctors because they think they are just pill pushers. Some think they are going against nature and these kinds of people only eat vegetables and such. Others are against them for religious purposes.
Some just don't trust doctors. Other's are against the entire educational system that produces doctors, believing it's just a way to keep the rich in power so they can get richer.
None of these things make everyone stop and think about whether or not being a doctor is a worthwhile career choice.
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Well, plenty of people <i>do</i> think about that when they decide whether or not they want to be doctors. The only reason it's not as strong a force as it is when it comes to the military is because there aren't as many people who feel that way about doctors, probably because there's no stigma attached directly to healing people like there is to killing people. And you're totally oversimplifying the issue too. People have problems with all sorts of professions: you just asked why there were so many with the military. There aren't a lot of jobs (in fact there are basically no jobs) where all the reasons I listed colloude to give a lot of people a negative impression. Doctors, for instance, don't have an air of "they're only doing it because they can't get a better job" the way some branches of the military do. For almost every profession you could list a few reasons that some people might not like it. The military happens to have a lot of those "few reasons" which apply to a bunch of people.
I wouldn't serve myself, and I can't stand the recruiters all over campus that keep bugging me to join.
Im in the airforce intelligence division of the united states military. finished basic and now im in school learning exactly what the ###### ill be doing but so far i love it. cant exactly talk about the stuff we learn but ill be stationed at NSA headqaurters in fort mead after i finish my schooling. the military is a major life change and 90% of it is for the good, the only bad part is being away from my family i saw my parents and brother for 1 weekend when i graduated BMT and i wont get a vacation till christmas.
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You're following in my brothers footsteps, except he served in Vietnam when he got out of Ft. Mead - doubt you'll go there.
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My friend's two brothers went to serve, one in the Navy the other in the Marines. They seem to enjoy it, the one from the Marines came back and is now a firefighter, and the other one is still with the Navy. Probably because he goes around the world a taps a lot of exotic booty.
I wouldn't serve myself, and I can't stand the recruiters all over campus that keep bugging me to join.
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"Exotic booty"? Geeze, I've been around the world in the Army and tapped some foreign booty, but none I'd classify as exotic, lol. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
As I've already stated in my thread regarding mandatory military service out of high school, the experience will truly make a man out of you and help to prepare you for adulthood by instilling confidence in yourself, teaching you discipline and teamwork, and learning how to get along with others - even those you may not care for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The idea that one needs to join the military to become a "man" is almost comically absurd. There's plenty of equally valid ways of coming of age, starting with simply growing up. Plenty of people manage it without going near the armed services.
This is not intended to have a go at the armed forces as a career, or at those whom doing so has helped reach maturity. But arguing for mandatory military service on the grounds that it will "make men out of us all" is ludicrous.
The idea that one needs to join the military to become a "man" is almost comically absurd. There's plenty of equally valid ways of coming of age, starting with simply growing up. Plenty of people manage it without going near the armed services.
This is not intended to have a go at the armed forces as a career, or at those whom doing so has helped reach maturity. But arguing for mandatory military service on the grounds that it will "make men out of us all" is ludicrous.
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Unfortunately the corporate world is rather lax when it comes to preparing young men for adulthood. The armed forces, on the other hand, will either make you or break you... you'll leave there a man, or dishonorably discharged - one or the other. When I was in I saw scores of spoiled street brats turned around, and I'd have been proud to claim any one of them as a friend when they got out.
Most that opt out of serving their country in the armed forces are either lazy, afraid of a little structure/discipline, or have conscientious objections. I mean, where else can you get paid to learn a trade AND see the world?!? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
The idea that one needs to join the military to become a "man" is almost comically absurd. There's plenty of equally valid ways of coming of age, starting with simply growing up. Plenty of people manage it without going near the armed services.
This is not intended to have a go at the armed forces as a career, or at those whom doing so has helped reach maturity. But arguing for mandatory military service on the grounds that it will "make men out of us all" is ludicrous.
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I tend to slightly disagree.
Germany has conscription, making military service semi-mandatory. (You can still do a civil-service, like working in a kindergarden instead) This means that you have people from all kinds of social and educational backgrounds, serving together in the same unit and undergoing basic training (3months) together. It certainly does not make a man out of you, but it does show you several things:
-No matter how great you think you are (yes even if you are great) your oppinion is just one out of many and does not matter in certain situations.
-There are situations where you better just keep it shut. (This is actually quite hard to learn for a few people, but works best if you simply punish the whole unit)
-Orders are given from top to bottom and are execute from bottom to top- (Short version: Feces obey gravity)
-Routine has its advantages.
Do these things make you a man? Not really.
Do they make you more manly? Works for most.
But it works as a glue, because everyone that served shared some common experiences, which makes getting into contact more easily. And because we tend to forget the bad and keep the good most think that their service was time well spent. As an example: When I am planning to buy something bigger (TV for example) I try to let the conversation slide into the "have you been in the military" direction. If he has, all I need to do is share some storys and whamm I got my TV with a 30% discount <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Not that I'm some kind of anti-government hippy. I understand the need for the army, I just strongly dislike it.
I would like to live in a world of happy rainbows and sunshine where people from all places in the world can walk hand in hand and sing amusing songs, without feeling the need to blow each other up over various mineral deposits or ideologies.
[/wishful thinking]
Also, I really hate being shouted at.
I live in the UK, and as it is, I wouldn't consider joining the army at all, simply because I don't feel the need. If it were some kind of WW2 situation (before conscription), then yeah I probably would. I'd probably try to get the job least likely to get me killed, though.
Like RAF mechanic <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
- Albert Einstein
The above quote from Einstein is something that resonates with me. People who run off to join the army seeking validity or some kind of 'trial by fire' are idiots. The recruiters who prey on the weak and uneducated are parasites on society.
There are many ways in which a person can prove their validity or worth without having to give up the only true possession they have: free will.