i think that you should have view rotation but have as an option that it is defaulted to off that way noobs could get used to skulk and wallwalking and such and if they feel confident enough they could use view rotation because out of first hand expierience using view rotation makes it much easier to walk on roofs and walls think about trying to get around a 90 degree overhang its impossible to do it quickley view rotation would make it easier
I have fond memories of that viewpoint. I think one of the guys from the old NSAmslab made a mod to allow a first-person view, but since the collapse it's been lost in the pages of history.
that sound really pretty nice, and i hope one day u add this to ns or maybe at ns source xD y not! befor i being death hehe just kidding,
well i want to add something... i have a while whitout playing ns, but if one day i c ns source i will pay for it, xD i just hope it wont be to late..., cuz after my programing course i undertand a lot of this ###### u have to do after have ready a game... & i hope u keep working at nss xD c later!!!
ooh!! almost I forget... I tkx u all for give us an amazing and free game!!! good luck
How will having more than one camera orientation option "make big changes in functionality"? Would a feet-based view orientation system give the Skulk abilities that it <i>wouldn't</i> have with a ground-based view orientation system? If it would indeed change the unit's core functionality, I can understand your apprehension, but if not, just give gamers the option to choose — they'll thank you.
Third-person cameras can be exploited (corner look, rapid turnaround, impossible viewing angles, etc) and preventing those exploitations via limiting the viewing angle(s) of the camera in relation to the BSP and the model itself would probably be prohibitively complicated and make the camera no fun to utilize. I'm for keeping it first-person wherever possible.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
edited December 2007
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But if one way is clearly better than another<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One isn't clearly better than the other. It may sound cool to flip views as you wallwalk, but in reality its very confusing and difficult to maneuver. I make people sick watching me lerk in spectator while im perfectly fine, but I'm not certain skulking like this would be preferred to how it is now. I'm certain I'd get sick from flipping views around like that all the time, and I'm relatively used to my gut-wrenching moves in NS.
Hrm... I'm for it... IF you can solve the problems related to disorientation. In the map that the video shows, for example, the ceiling and the floor use the same texture. One of the things you would have to do is make sure that the ceiling and floor of very map have distinct textures and look completely different, even with dynamic infestation. Some sort of up/down indicator of sorts would probably be needed as well. Generally, you want to make sure it helps not only immersion, but also control.
It's great that not only is the Source engine more capable than the HL1 engine, but that you will have full access to it, allowing things that were difficult to implement before being easy.
On a related note, one of the thinks I always wanted lerks to be able to do, but was never added to the game was the ability to "latch" onto the ceiling, like a bat. You may want to consider this as well.
AvP wall walking takes a really long time to get used to. This drives the learning curve up steeply for a feature that is 98% aesthetic.
I absolutely have no idea how you can make it any easier to grasp - save stix' method. Although that has the power to confuse new players even further. New players will instantly get confused because there'd be no easy, intuitive way to discern between the floor and the ceiling.
Portal, with flipping upside-down out of portals, was confusing, but you still maintained orientation, you know?
I think, after awhile, you'll hit a wall, expect how it will change your view, and continue going. I think the viewing angle needs to have a smooth transition instead of snapping, and as has been said before, orient to the ground whenever you jump off a wall.
Another thing I think would be cool is if the player model AND player view would try to average it out if the player model was touching two or more surfaces. Skulks tend to hide in corners and edges; imagine hiding in an edge with a twisted view, seeing a marine come through a door, then leaping from the edge, your view bending to correct orientation as you took a bite at the unsuspecting marine.
That was likely a HORRIBLE explanation; my English has been slowly dying ever since I came to Japan.
Anyway, Portal is a great example and something to look at when talking about orientation, I think, as my next point is to make sure that the viewing angle only changes as much as it needs to. In Portal, the degree to which the camera rotates can change depending on where you are looking. For an NS2 example, if you run at a wall, then look up to climb straight up the wall, no camera change is needed at all until you turn your head. If you're running parallel to a wall, then turn slightly towards the wall, there'd be a rather large camera change.
Also, the example I just listed serves as good example for why the two-surface-averaging thing would be useful. In NS1, to climb a wall to the side, you have to turn to the side to get to the wall, then look up to begin climbing. If you do the two-surface-averaging thing, you would never have to look up, as once you make contact with the wall, your turned angle, even with just an angled view, would lead up the wall. I hope you understand that, rereading it it looks kind of confusing.
Anyway, the angled view makes the skulk feel more alien, in addition to adding more immersion. Also, in the above example, it makes it simpler in a confusing way. All in all, there isn't a reason to not include it, as everyone could eventually get used to the changing orientation and compensate.
Still though, keeping it an option isn't a bad idea in any sense. With the ingame hints, you could just make a hint pop up, saying that you can disable the rotating viewing angle in the options, the first time the view changes as a skulk. Keeping away options is a bad idea. I can't tell you how many times on consoles I've had to switch between the Inverted and Default vertical looking control, because the developers didn't include an option to switch it either way in different games.
I vote for putting the skulk view rotation in, including an option to turn it off, and at least contemplating what I've said about having the skulk view balance for when the player is touching multiple surfaces. I can't wait for this game.
<!--quoteo(post=1664782:date=Dec 21 2007, 04:25 AM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Dec 21 2007, 04:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664782"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why an "arrow"? I'd imagine having a tail or some sort of body appendage showing the way by hanging down would be much prettier, less intrusive to gameplay and way more intuitive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Intuition and theme are not the same thing. If someone is drowning or buried in snow they automatically try to get "up". It adds a sense of getting your bearings back.
<!--quoteo(post=1664821:date=Dec 21 2007, 02:55 PM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Dec 21 2007, 02:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->BUT, once the view is past 90 degrees (so once UP becomes DOWN), reverse it. Turn it into the current style; its like the skulk's mind is compensating for the inversion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
<!--coloro:lime--><span style="color:lime"><!--/coloro-->Additionally, I'd set up some kind of a tactile feedback system, like a lesser "damage coming from the left side" (from when you get shot/bitten from on your left) screen effect which "feels" like you're being pulled on by gravity.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Thats another idea; how about a soft highly transparent blob-ish overlay that moves around the screen, always facing the ground? It would be an awesome effect if it would spread out when near the middle of the screen (i.e. you're on a ceiling with your view inverted, and you're looking straight 'up' at the ground), but it would flatten a bit when its on the edges (e.g. you're on a ceiling with your view inverted but you're looking forward; hence the 'gravity blob' would be on the top of your screen, but more flat).
Might be too much work, but if it was done properly, it could be a fairly intuitive way of orienting the player without something as blatant as an arrow.
...OR...
<!--coloro:#48D1CC--><span style="color:#48D1CC"><!--/coloro-->Had to put this in colour because its cool. We're only talking about skulks, right? How about we make use of the fancy particle system that will hopefully be ported over to source / already in source. When the skulk's view is inverted, have a slow but steady stream of saliva drops coming off one of its teeth, and falling towards the floor. Its kinda like the 'caught-in-an-avalanche' method of knowing gravity's direction. This saliva could or could not be seen by other players; thats unimportant for the issue at hand. It would be an intuitive way of knowing which way you'll fall if you let go, and frankly, it would look hella cool.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Yeah, but you'd still need some way of directing the player upward imo.
Even though I like the idea of a screen effect to let the player "feel" the pull of gravity, I don't think a downward-pointing arrow (or damage effect or blob) would be as effective as a "this way up" indicator if used on its own. With that said, I still like the idea, assuming they augmented each other well without cluttering up the screen.
<!--quoteo(post=1664860:date=Dec 21 2007, 11:28 PM:name=BigText)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BigText @ Dec 21 2007, 11:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664860"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With the ingame hints, you could just make a hint pop up, saying that you can disable the rotating viewing angle in the options, the first time the view changes as a skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Better yet, sense they've already talked about NS 2 having training and achievements, why not put basic control explanations in the training? Regardless, NS is filled with awesome, yet odd and strange features, and I think every non-obvious part of NS2 could easily be taught in training. That would help keep the "cool factor" while retaining players and easing the learning curve.
<!--quoteo(post=1664865:date=Dec 22 2007, 04:09 AM:name=Radix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Radix @ Dec 22 2007, 04:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664865"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, but you'd still need some way of directing the player upward imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Much like many maps only have a north indicator, there need be only one UI indicator of direction. As skulks who disable wallwalking are typically already on the ground, and thus don't need to know which way up is, whereas skulks who are are on walls and ceilings need to know which direction they are going to fall to when they detach themselves from the surface, I would think a down indicator would be more useful to a skulk player. Besides, it allows for more immersive methods of displaying direction, such as a hanging tongue, or dripping saliva as StixNStonz suggested.
I do not know if its been said yet, BUT make the skulks bottom jaw drasticly visualy different from the top jaw, then Keep the view the same but rotate the Vmodel inside the skulks mouth depending on its surface.
and yes even in that little clip it reminds me of how nausiating AvP is
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
If this is added, I'd be willing to bet some cash that the first week of the game people out people are posting "Man, does anyone else go puke after skulking for about 30 minutes? It's like riding a roller coaster." It's simply not a natural feeling to flip around like that all the time, and while I'm sure people adjust to it that practice a lot, it's not going to be easy on newbies at all. I had a great time wallwalking in AvP2, I was pretty damn good at orientating myself, but it took quite a while to adjust to it. I'll admit I also puked the first time I tried it seriously, I get motion sickness and it definitely triggered it. I'd rather not have to take dramamine just to play NS2 the first couple weeks it is out <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
When I first started playing, one of the problems I had as a skulk was this constant feel that I was going to fall while wall walking. I had this feeling that the floor was always below me, not beside or above. I had wished that it was possible to change the view angle because it might have made me a little more comfortable.
Of course, with practice and some wall walking updates, I became a little more comfortable, but still have always wished my view changed.
<!--quoteo(post=1664880:date=Dec 22 2007, 01:01 PM:name=glimmerman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(glimmerman @ Dec 22 2007, 01:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664880"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So where's the 15th podcast??? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Think there was something in the last about them taking a break until late January.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1664881:date=Dec 23 2007, 12:35 AM:name=NEX9)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NEX9 @ Dec 23 2007, 12:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do not know if its been said yet, BUT make the skulks bottom jaw drasticly visualy different from the top jaw, then Keep the view the same but rotate the Vmodel inside the skulks mouth depending on its surface.
and yes even in that little clip it reminds me of how nausiating AvP is
oh and on sticks salive Note hell yeah<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The part that excited me the most about this old video was the last bit of it.
3rd person view for melee.
I have yet to play a game that uses melee that is as intuitive and fun to play that was not 3rd person view point.
And so what if a skulk can hide better or get good "senses" because of it? They are Kharaa after all, its not a far fetch that with Hive Sight and Parasites they would be able to be that much more alien than humans and see themselves in "out of body" experiences.
I remember in Morrowind, it was very annoying to melee in first person, but in third person I was just rocking the place, dodging this or that, judging distance to my hits, knowing if my character was going to or was touching the geometry of an object that would hinder its movement... There was a Star Wars game that was mentioned before that did it very well also: use a gun, first person, use a light saber, third person.
I am all for 3rd person in NS2 melee, it is proven fun game play goodness.
<!--quoteo(post=1664926:date=Dec 22 2007, 06:30 PM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Dec 22 2007, 06:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664926"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oblivion pulled it off far better than Morrowind.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which part, First Person View Melee or Third Person View Melee?
Lol, you know what I thought of. Surely if you got this working really well, you could put spawns on the ceiling and you would spawn on the ceiling, would really help when you have a load of spawn camping marines in a hive/room. But I imagine the game would just make you fall to the floor unless there was an option to spawn with wall stick on in hammer.
<!--quoteo(post=1664927:date=Dec 22 2007, 06:38 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Dec 22 2007, 06:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664927"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which part, First Person View Melee or Third Person View Melee?
Haven't had the opportunity to play Oblivion yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First person melee.
Oblivion has been ranked extremely high on tons of the 'top 100 games of all times' kind of rankings. Last one i saw put it at 7th.
You cant get more value in a video game than Oblivion (or Mass Effect). I bought Oblivion for the PC when it first came out even though my comp couldnt run it, so i played it with a buddy at his place on a projector (110 inches) for 125 hours. Then, the 360 version was released about 6 months later, right when i got a 360, and i bought it again. Ive logged about another 125 hours on that.
Its almost entirely melee (cept our first guy could use a bow as well as blade), but its entertaining the entire time.
<!--quoteo(post=1664745:date=Dec 21 2007, 02:13 PM:name=anty)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(anty @ Dec 21 2007, 02:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664745"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Someone posted already that you could implement it without the rotation if you are at the ceiling. But I would try a different approach:
Make the view rotation not full 90% if you climb on a wall. Change it for like 30 degree so you have the feeling that you climb on the wall, but you bend your head to compensate the view. I can only guess how this will look ingame, but I think it's worth a try.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure why, but I really like where this is going.... Don't know if it'll work ingame.... But there's something about the idea of view rotation that seems affected by the direction of gravity that just feels right... Heck, this could be expanded upon in the skulk movement itself, where it could be quicker to run down a wall than up it...
<!--quoteo(post=1664882:date=Dec 22 2007, 02:37 PM:name=TheAdj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TheAdj @ Dec 22 2007, 02:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664882"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If this is added, I'd be willing to bet some cash that the first week of the game people out people are posting "Man, does anyone else go puke after skulking for about 30 minutes? It's like riding a roller coaster." It's simply not a natural feeling to flip around like that all the time, and while I'm sure people adjust to it that practice a lot, it's not going to be easy on newbies at all. I had a great time wallwalking in AvP2, I was pretty damn good at orientating myself, but it took quite a while to adjust to it. I'll admit I also puked the first time I tried it seriously, I get motion sickness and it definitely triggered it. I'd rather not have to take dramamine just to play NS2 the first couple weeks it is out <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quoted for truth. Don't waste time programming this when you could spend the time implementing the other ideas and suggestions. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />.
Also, definitely if you had the lerks fly like a flight sim, then that'd be pretty insanely awesome. I'd have a use for a joystick again! WOOHOO! (although it works pretty amazingly well just how it is now).
<!--quoteo(post=1664726:date=Dec 20 2007, 09:56 PM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Max @ Dec 20 2007, 09:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664726"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In some theoretical implementation I imagine it making wall walking easier, since you could run along along a weird surface just as easily as you run along a flat floor. I have yet to see that in a game though, so at this point it's just speculation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The original Alien vs Predator game (by Fox) did it well. However, the game you mentioned (Alien vs Predator 2) was very clunky in its implementation and was the sole reason I could not continue playing the game. I loved AvP but could barely get past the first level in AvP 2 without getting aggrivated.
I would prefer if this was not put in as it would detract from the game. New players find aliens hard enough as it is without having to deal with this. Having said that it could be put in as an option for Clan games/advanced servers.
Comments
well i want to add something... i have a while whitout playing ns, but if one day i c ns source i will pay for it, xD i just hope it wont be to late..., cuz after my programing course i undertand a lot of this ###### u have to do after have ready a game... & i hope u keep working at nss xD c later!!!
ooh!! almost I forget... I tkx u all for give us an amazing and free game!!! good luck
Third-person cameras can be exploited (corner look, rapid turnaround, impossible viewing angles, etc) and preventing those exploitations via limiting the viewing angle(s) of the camera in relation to the BSP and the model itself would probably be prohibitively complicated and make the camera no fun to utilize. I'm for keeping it first-person wherever possible.
One isn't clearly better than the other. It may sound cool to flip views as you wallwalk, but in reality its very confusing and difficult to maneuver. I make people sick watching me lerk in spectator while im perfectly fine, but I'm not certain skulking like this would be preferred to how it is now. I'm certain I'd get sick from flipping views around like that all the time, and I'm relatively used to my gut-wrenching moves in NS.
It's great that not only is the Source engine more capable than the HL1 engine, but that you will have full access to it, allowing things that were difficult to implement before being easy.
On a related note, one of the thinks I always wanted lerks to be able to do, but was never added to the game was the ability to "latch" onto the ceiling, like a bat. You may want to consider this as well.
I absolutely have no idea how you can make it any easier to grasp - save stix' method. Although that has the power to confuse new players even further. New players will instantly get confused because there'd be no easy, intuitive way to discern between the floor and the ceiling.
Coding it is a waste of time IMO.
I think, after awhile, you'll hit a wall, expect how it will change your view, and continue going. I think the viewing angle needs to have a smooth transition instead of snapping, and as has been said before, orient to the ground whenever you jump off a wall.
Another thing I think would be cool is if the player model AND player view would try to average it out if the player model was touching two or more surfaces. Skulks tend to hide in corners and edges; imagine hiding in an edge with a twisted view, seeing a marine come through a door, then leaping from the edge, your view bending to correct orientation as you took a bite at the unsuspecting marine.
That was likely a HORRIBLE explanation; my English has been slowly dying ever since I came to Japan.
Anyway, Portal is a great example and something to look at when talking about orientation, I think, as my next point is to make sure that the viewing angle only changes as much as it needs to. In Portal, the degree to which the camera rotates can change depending on where you are looking. For an NS2 example, if you run at a wall, then look up to climb straight up the wall, no camera change is needed at all until you turn your head. If you're running parallel to a wall, then turn slightly towards the wall, there'd be a rather large camera change.
Also, the example I just listed serves as good example for why the two-surface-averaging thing would be useful. In NS1, to climb a wall to the side, you have to turn to the side to get to the wall, then look up to begin climbing. If you do the two-surface-averaging thing, you would never have to look up, as once you make contact with the wall, your turned angle, even with just an angled view, would lead up the wall. I hope you understand that, rereading it it looks kind of confusing.
Anyway, the angled view makes the skulk feel more alien, in addition to adding more immersion. Also, in the above example, it makes it simpler in a confusing way. All in all, there isn't a reason to not include it, as everyone could eventually get used to the changing orientation and compensate.
Still though, keeping it an option isn't a bad idea in any sense. With the ingame hints, you could just make a hint pop up, saying that you can disable the rotating viewing angle in the options, the first time the view changes as a skulk. Keeping away options is a bad idea. I can't tell you how many times on consoles I've had to switch between the Inverted and Default vertical looking control, because the developers didn't include an option to switch it either way in different games.
I vote for putting the skulk view rotation in, including an option to turn it off, and at least contemplating what I've said about having the skulk view balance for when the player is touching multiple surfaces. I can't wait for this game.
Intuition and theme are not the same thing. If someone is drowning or buried in snow they automatically try to get "up". It adds a sense of getting your bearings back.
<!--quoteo(post=1664821:date=Dec 21 2007, 02:55 PM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Dec 21 2007, 02:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->BUT, once the view is past 90 degrees (so once UP becomes DOWN), reverse it. Turn it into the current style; its like the skulk's mind is compensating for the inversion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
<!--coloro:lime--><span style="color:lime"><!--/coloro-->Additionally, I'd set up some kind of a tactile feedback system, like a lesser "damage coming from the left side" (from when you get shot/bitten from on your left) screen effect which "feels" like you're being pulled on by gravity.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Might be too much work, but if it was done properly, it could be a fairly intuitive way of orienting the player without something as blatant as an arrow.
...OR...
<!--coloro:#48D1CC--><span style="color:#48D1CC"><!--/coloro-->Had to put this in colour because its cool. We're only talking about skulks, right? How about we make use of the fancy particle system that will hopefully be ported over to source / already in source. When the skulk's view is inverted, have a slow but steady stream of saliva drops coming off one of its teeth, and falling towards the floor. Its kinda like the 'caught-in-an-avalanche' method of knowing gravity's direction. This saliva could or could not be seen by other players; thats unimportant for the issue at hand. It would be an intuitive way of knowing which way you'll fall if you let go, and frankly, it would look hella cool.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Even though I like the idea of a screen effect to let the player "feel" the pull of gravity, I don't think a downward-pointing arrow (or damage effect or blob) would be as effective as a "this way up" indicator if used on its own. With that said, I still like the idea, assuming they augmented each other well without cluttering up the screen.
Better yet, sense they've already talked about NS 2 having training and achievements, why not put basic control explanations in the training? Regardless, NS is filled with awesome, yet odd and strange features, and I think every non-obvious part of NS2 could easily be taught in training. That would help keep the "cool factor" while retaining players and easing the learning curve.
<!--quoteo(post=1664865:date=Dec 22 2007, 04:09 AM:name=Radix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Radix @ Dec 22 2007, 04:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664865"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, but you'd still need some way of directing the player upward imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Much like many maps only have a north indicator, there need be only one UI indicator of direction. As skulks who disable wallwalking are typically already on the ground, and thus don't need to know which way up is, whereas skulks who are are on walls and ceilings need to know which direction they are going to fall to when they detach themselves from the surface, I would think a down indicator would be more useful to a skulk player. Besides, it allows for more immersive methods of displaying direction, such as a hanging tongue, or dripping saliva as StixNStonz suggested.
and yes even in that little clip it reminds me of how nausiating AvP is
oh and on sticks salive Note hell yeah
Of course, with practice and some wall walking updates, I became a little more comfortable, but still have always wished my view changed.
Think there was something in the last about them taking a break until late January.
and yes even in that little clip it reminds me of how nausiating AvP is
oh and on sticks salive Note hell yeah<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats an awesome idea
3rd person view for melee.
I have yet to play a game that uses melee that is as intuitive and fun to play that was not 3rd person view point.
And so what if a skulk can hide better or get good "senses" because of it? They are Kharaa after all, its not a far fetch that with Hive Sight and Parasites they would be able to be that much more alien than humans and see themselves in "out of body" experiences.
I remember in Morrowind, it was very annoying to melee in first person, but in third person I was just rocking the place, dodging this or that, judging distance to my hits, knowing if my character was going to or was touching the geometry of an object that would hinder its movement... There was a Star Wars game that was mentioned before that did it very well also: use a gun, first person, use a light saber, third person.
I am all for 3rd person in NS2 melee, it is proven fun game play goodness.
Which part, First Person View Melee or Third Person View Melee?
Haven't had the opportunity to play Oblivion yet.
Haven't had the opportunity to play Oblivion yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First person melee.
Oblivion has been ranked extremely high on tons of the 'top 100 games of all times' kind of rankings. Last one i saw put it at 7th.
You cant get more value in a video game than Oblivion (or Mass Effect). I bought Oblivion for the PC when it first came out even though my comp couldnt run it, so i played it with a buddy at his place on a projector (110 inches) for 125 hours. Then, the 360 version was released about 6 months later, right when i got a 360, and i bought it again. Ive logged about another 125 hours on that.
Its almost entirely melee (cept our first guy could use a bow as well as blade), but its entertaining the entire time.
Make the view rotation not full 90% if you climb on a wall. Change it for like 30 degree so you have the feeling that you climb on the wall, but you bend your head to compensate the view. I can only guess how this will look ingame, but I think it's worth a try.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure why, but I really like where this is going.... Don't know if it'll work ingame.... But there's something about the idea of view rotation that seems affected by the direction of gravity that just feels right... Heck, this could be expanded upon in the skulk movement itself, where it could be quicker to run down a wall than up it...
its in the future, 2008
On a more serious note, I would just get really dizzy running around rotating like that :<
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->unchain the lerks! <!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Quoted for truth. Don't waste time programming this when you could spend the time implementing the other ideas and suggestions. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />.
Also, definitely if you had the lerks fly like a flight sim, then that'd be pretty insanely awesome. I'd have a use for a joystick again! WOOHOO! (although it works pretty amazingly well just how it is now).
The original Alien vs Predator game (by Fox) did it well. However, the game you mentioned (Alien vs Predator 2) was very clunky in its implementation and was the sole reason I could not continue playing the game. I loved AvP but could barely get past the first level in AvP 2 without getting aggrivated.