<!--quoteo(post=1675024:date=Apr 4 2008, 07:18 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Apr 4 2008, 07:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675024"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Immersion - Is that another vague, undefined concept (similar to "teamwork") which people throw around to add weight to their arguments even though it means nothing by itself?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->+1
Holding E is not an integral part of the game. Holding E does not make you feel deeply 'immersed' or 'engaged' in the game. Holding E is entirely useless and worthless in and of itself.
Simple solution: all kids diagnosed with ADHD get to play a Zen of Sudoku mini-game while they build.
Now seriously, to see why 'busy' building must stay:
1. It does add to the game because it enhances dynamic vulnerability. For example when an armory is upgrading, when a higher lifeform is gesting, when a hive is building, when a phase gate is going up, etc. All of these events make the game more exciting because they create times of greater urgency versus times of lesser urgency. Contrast is important: if you're pressing E in the corner of a room with a vent above you, you're very vulnerable, and not even able to see skulks coming(scareh), but if you've got your guns out, ready to shoot at that vent, you're not that vulnerable. Now THAT's boring.
2. The concepts of "ranged vs. melee" and "slow Marines vs. fast aliens" are an integral part of the game. This means closing the distance by attacking busy-building marines is an integral part of the game, and so is keeping marines stationary for a time, giving skulks a chance to prepare ambushes and maneuver around the map. You can't put 5 vents every single place marines can build and expect this to solve the problem, nor can you depend on special abilities like leap.
3. Put yourself in a skulk's shoes for a change. (I'd love to hear the NS version of Everlast's, "What It's Like", hehe)
(and if the shoes don't fit then you are a marine-stacking nub)
(and if you think skulks wear shoes you need help. that's almost as stupid as lerks wearing hats. or lerks being hats. or skulks being shoes. BTW, cheat code in NS: hold E on an RT while eating a sandwich for skulk shoes!)
<!--quoteo(post=1675031:date=Apr 4 2008, 02:39 PM:name=naggy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naggy @ Apr 4 2008, 02:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675031"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wtf? Both sentences refer to it. Building = holding E/+use if you for some reason haven't realized already.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
build·ing –noun 1. a relatively permanent enclosed construction over a plot of land, having a roof and usually windows and often more than one level, used for any of a wide variety of activities, as living, entertaining, or manufacturing. 2. anything built or constructed. 3. the act, business, or practice of constructing houses, office buildings, etc.
3. <b>state of being deeply engaged or involved; absorption.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks, because from my post you could really deduce that I had no idea what immersion was.
Also, it may be that I just don't have enough IQ points to be able to connect immersion and holding E while facing a structure. Neither can I connect immersion and being vulnerable to skulks.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Genius ideas come from devs and/or people with something balanced in mind, stupid ideas come from the 'Ideas and Suggestions' forum and/or people who can't comprehend how their 'uber leet' idea will break the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I see, so developers know how to play a game better than the players.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
edited April 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1674987:date=Apr 3 2008, 06:20 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Apr 3 2008, 06:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674987"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A) Vents B) Leap is cool, wouldn't you agree?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So every RT will have a vent? You have to think this out. Giving a gorge easy bilebomb access to every RT is a bad idea. Not to mention that's a huge restriction on mappers.
You want to give skulks leap by default? Maybe. Seems like you have to change a lot of core aspects to make this work though. I mean you'd have to beef up marines since vanilla skulks are so much more dangerous and can travel the map even faster. Still leap isn't making the marine ambushable, it just makes your attack stronger. I don't think that's really the answer.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd love to hear the NS version of Everlast's, "What It's Like", hehe<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Google "Cleanse Da Intruders".
Edit: I know you didn't mention this but default silence is bad as well. Removing sound would dumb down the game substantially as a marine.
<!--quoteo(post=1675050:date=Apr 4 2008, 12:46 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Apr 4 2008, 12:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675050"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->build·ing –noun 3. the act, business, or practice of <b>constructing</b> houses, office buildings, etc.
Doesn't say anything about holding E.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So in NS when you hold E/+use at a structure that was freshly dropped your in game avatar is trying to bake a cake?
<!--quoteo(post=1675050:date=Apr 4 2008, 12:46 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Apr 4 2008, 12:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675050"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks, because from my post you could really deduce that I had no idea what immersion was.
Also, it may be that I just don't have enough IQ points to be able to connect immersion and holding E while facing a structure. Neither can I connect immersion and being vulnerable to skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're engaging yourself in the fictional environment by building the fictional structure by holding E because you have a hazardous environment around you. You should always be on the lookout/listening for skulks that could come from behind you and rip you a new ######ter. This is supposed to create suspense in the player. So, by immersing yourself in the atmosphere of the game you create suspense and excitement - which then leads to fun (or sometimes fear if the player is that much of a girl, but some people like scary games (not that NS is really scary though..)).
Fun > replayability > more popular game > developers win.
<!--quoteo(post=1675050:date=Apr 4 2008, 12:46 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Apr 4 2008, 12:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675050"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see, so developers know how to play a game better than the players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, dev's know how to create a game better than players, they then change the game based on how the players complain due to certain aspects of the game being 'unfair' or in other words 'OP' (prime example: World of Warcraft).
<!--quoteo(post=1675046:date=Apr 4 2008, 01:09 PM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(juice @ Apr 4 2008, 01:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675046"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Simple solution: all kids diagnosed with ADHD get to play a Zen of Sudoku mini-game while they build.
Now seriously, to see why 'busy' building must stay:
1. It does add to the game because it enhances dynamic vulnerability. For example when an armory is upgrading, when a higher lifeform is gesting, when a hive is building, when a phase gate is going up, etc. All of these events make the game more exciting because they create times of greater urgency versus times of lesser urgency. Contrast is important: if you're pressing E in the corner of a room with a vent above you, you're very vulnerable, and not even able to see skulks coming(scareh), but if you've got your guns out, ready to shoot at that vent, you're not that vulnerable. Now THAT's boring.
2. The concepts of "ranged vs. melee" and "slow Marines vs. fast aliens" are an integral part of the game. This means closing the distance by attacking busy-building marines is an integral part of the game, and so is keeping marines stationary for a time, giving skulks a chance to prepare ambushes and maneuver around the map. You can't put 5 vents every single place marines can build and expect this to solve the problem, nor can you depend on special abilities like leap.
3. Put yourself in a skulk's shoes for a change. (I'd love to hear the NS version of Everlast's, "What It's Like", hehe)
(and if the shoes don't fit then you are a marine-stacking nub)
(and if you think skulks wear shoes you need help. that's almost as stupid as lerks wearing hats. or lerks being hats. or skulks being shoes. BTW, cheat code in NS: hold E on an RT while eating a sandwich for skulk shoes!)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ++ there is one technical method I can see this being implemented - as part of a larger new feel to playing marines. That would be the massive multitasking marines that do a ton of different things and then exploit opportunities as opposed to the carefully planning aliens that do one thing and one thing well.
However, even if that were the case I would still like to have to be limited when building in some manner, because that tension is palpable near vents, and it is more fun that way.
<!--quoteo(post=1675046:date=Apr 4 2008, 01:09 PM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(juice @ Apr 4 2008, 01:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675046"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->closing the distance by attacking busy-building marines is an integral part of the game, and so is keeping marines stationary for a time, giving skulks a chance to prepare ambushes and maneuver around the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This argument would be good except that at the beginning of a game (and in all situations that matter) building marines never die to skulks. The <b>only</b> time a building marine can die to a skulk is when no one is covering him or when he is ramboing, or when the skulk has a chance to bhop into powersilo without the marine noticing, evading, or aiming 11 bullets into his attacker.
This idea would no doubt make the game faster paced, as the marine cap team is aggressing at the same rate as the pressure team, but I don't think that makes it a bad idea, it just makes it different from what NSPlayers are used to. It could be good, it could be bad, but I think it's definitely worth testing.
This idea would totaly destroy aliens. Imagine a team of 5 marines all outside your hive building sieges, EXCEPT none of them have to build the siegers they all build automatically! It would mean all of them build at the same time because all 5 marines can use auto build BECAUSE its 5 different structures and instead of 4 marines guarding (it should really be 0 because it counts asthough all 5 are building) 5 are so its like having TWICE as many people on your team when your sieging... Why would anyone ever shotgun rush a hive ever again???
(let me just sum this up again) 5 marines... Bots mean you can have 5 people effecitvely building when you should only be able to have 1 with 4 covering so it means 5x the building power and it means all 5 can cover... Thats insane... Surely you cant have thought this bit through....
Bad idea!!! Needs to be thought through in ALL situations not just the building of RT's unless its limited to only building RT's...
Also OMG "then when the bot is destroyed, the marine can auto build again" so no cost and as soon as his bot on his rt dies he just kills the alien that kills it and starts the bot again...
<!--quoteo(post=1675126:date=Apr 6 2008, 01:41 PM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PsympleJester @ Apr 6 2008, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675126"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This idea would totaly destroy aliens. Imagine a team of 5 marines all outside your hive building sieges, EXCEPT none of them have to build the siegers they all build automatically!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can limit it to RTs. Sieges are built in combat so its more hectic building anyway. I'd just prefer to reduce the amount of RTs and try to make capping quicker and more fighting based though. Capping involves quite a lot of cool mind games after all.
<!--quoteo(post=1675124:date=Apr 6 2008, 08:23 AM:name=Radix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Radix @ Apr 6 2008, 08:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675124"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This argument would be good except that at the beginning of a game (and in all situations that matter) building marines never die to skulks. The <b>only</b> time a building marine can die to a skulk is when no one is covering him or when he is ramboing, or when the skulk has a chance to bhop into powersilo without the marine noticing, evading, or aiming 11 bullets into his attacker.
This idea would no doubt make the game faster paced, as the marine cap team is aggressing at the same rate as the pressure team, but I don't think that makes it a bad idea, it just makes it different from what NSPlayers are used to. It could be good, it could be bad, but I think it's definitely worth testing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, the marine won't die if someone is covering him. But that's just it: with autobuild, he could cover himself. He could plop an autobot then go camp a hallway of his choosing farther in. Maybe you wouldn't even have cap teams and pressure teams. If the pressure team can build without spending any time or effort, then everyone becomes the same cappin killin steamrollin group. So what if a skulk comes behind you and kills your rt bot? You're already at the next one building it. Either he can chomp it down and by the time he's done you have other rts built, or someone comes by and plops their autobot right back on it and continues on their way. Of course you might balance it by lowering rt health... which <b>does</b> solve the problem that is <b>even more</b> monotonous(to those so inclined) than holding E: chomping RTs.
I do agree it is something worth testing. As a droppable item with scalable res cost, the autobuildbot could be tested most efficiently. It could also be tested as an item you spawn with for free, no research. Then we could see what works best.
The whole point of RT's is that you have to build/chomp them. Does no one realize this? It is one of the basic gameplay mechanics and part of what makes this game so great. If you take all the challenge and strategy out of the game then it is just an FPS. Making it more FPS and less RTS will not help this game, it will make the game less immersive and therefore less addictive.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Don't you realize that building and especially chomping rts is kinda boring to some players? From my experience it was fun to build rts at the beginning, but I didn't chomp rts as new player, because it was neither an attracting action nor did it seem necessary to me. I still enjoy those little fights related to building/defending/attacking marine rts, but that's the only refreshing and funny thing while holding a button and facing a structure.
I agree that suggestions like autobuild and similar stuff may reach too far, but I really would like to see a decrease in building- but especially chomping-time. Less health and res-cost of rts may reduce the boring parts, while it keeps the fights for rts in the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1675086:date=Apr 5 2008, 02:20 AM:name=naggy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naggy @ Apr 5 2008, 02:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So in NS when you hold E/+use at a structure that was freshly dropped your in game avatar is trying to bake a cake? You're engaging yourself in the fictional environment by building the fictional structure by holding E because you have a hazardous environment around you. You should always be on the lookout/listening for skulks that could come from behind you and rip you a new ######ter. This is supposed to create suspense in the player. So, by immersing yourself in the atmosphere of the game you create suspense and excitement - which then leads to fun (or sometimes fear if the player is that much of a girl, but some people like scary games (not that NS is really scary though..)).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I can't believe you didn't get it yet. There are tons of ways of implementing "building" into a game, holding down E is one of them.
Holding down E is not immersing because you are pressing a button on your keyboard and your electronic avatar marines' weapon disappears from your screen and you are still aware that it is a game and not The Matrix.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, dev's know how to create a game better than players, they then change the game based on how the players complain due to certain aspects of the game being 'unfair' or in other words 'OP' (prime example: World of Warcraft).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I suppose that is why Blizzard decided to work closely with Korean pro-gamers in order to design SC2. How do you make a game better? Ask the good+ players that play it/have played it. I'm surprised that so few companies actually do this because 99% of all sequels that come out just end up blowing.
<!--quoteo(post=1675126:date=Apr 6 2008, 01:41 PM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PsympleJester @ Apr 6 2008, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675126"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This idea would totaly destroy aliens. Imagine a team of 5 marines all outside your hive building sieges, EXCEPT none of them have to build the siegers they all build automatically! It would mean all of them build at the same time because all 5 marines can use auto build BECAUSE its 5 different structures and instead of 4 marines guarding (it should really be 0 because it counts asthough all 5 are building) 5 are so its like having TWICE as many people on your team when your sieging... Why would anyone ever shotgun rush a hive ever again???<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> In NS2, marines will have Mobile Siege Turrets so they can build them even before going anywhere near the hive. Balancing autobuild in isn't anything over-the-top challenging.
Comments
Holding E is not an integral part of the game. Holding E does not make you feel deeply 'immersed' or 'engaged' in the game. Holding E is entirely useless and worthless in and of itself.
Now seriously, to see why 'busy' building must stay:
1. It does add to the game because it enhances dynamic vulnerability. For example when an armory is upgrading, when a higher lifeform is gesting, when a hive is building, when a phase gate is going up, etc. All of these events make the game more exciting because they create times of greater urgency versus times of lesser urgency. Contrast is important: if you're pressing E in the corner of a room with a vent above you, you're very vulnerable, and not even able to see skulks coming(scareh), but if you've got your guns out, ready to shoot at that vent, you're not that vulnerable. Now THAT's boring.
2. The concepts of "ranged vs. melee" and "slow Marines vs. fast aliens" are an integral part of the game. This means closing the distance by attacking busy-building marines is an integral part of the game, and so is keeping marines stationary for a time, giving skulks a chance to prepare ambushes and maneuver around the map. You can't put 5 vents every single place marines can build and expect this to solve the problem, nor can you depend on special abilities like leap.
3. Put yourself in a skulk's shoes for a change.
(I'd love to hear the NS version of Everlast's, "What It's Like", hehe)
(and if the shoes don't fit then you are a marine-stacking nub)
(and if you think skulks wear shoes you need help. that's almost as stupid as lerks wearing hats. or lerks being hats. or skulks being shoes. BTW, cheat code in NS: hold E on an RT while eating a sandwich for skulk shoes!)
build·ing
–noun
1. a relatively permanent enclosed construction over a plot of land, having a roof and usually windows and often more than one level, used for any of a wide variety of activities, as living, entertaining, or manufacturing.
2. anything built or constructed.
3. the act, business, or practice of constructing houses, office buildings, etc.
Doesn't say anything about holding E.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->im·mer·sion.
3. <b>state of being deeply engaged or involved; absorption.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks, because from my post you could really deduce that I had no idea what immersion was.
Also, it may be that I just don't have enough IQ points to be able to connect immersion and holding E while facing a structure. Neither can I connect immersion and being vulnerable to skulks.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Genius ideas come from devs and/or people with something balanced in mind, stupid ideas come from the 'Ideas and Suggestions' forum and/or people who can't comprehend how their 'uber leet' idea will break the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I see, so developers know how to play a game better than the players.
B) Leap is cool, wouldn't you agree?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So every RT will have a vent? You have to think this out. Giving a gorge easy bilebomb access to every RT is a bad idea. Not to mention that's a huge restriction on mappers.
You want to give skulks leap by default? Maybe. Seems like you have to change a lot of core aspects to make this work though. I mean you'd have to beef up marines since vanilla skulks are so much more dangerous and can travel the map even faster. Still leap isn't making the marine ambushable, it just makes your attack stronger. I don't think that's really the answer.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd love to hear the NS version of Everlast's, "What It's Like", hehe<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Google "Cleanse Da Intruders".
Edit: I know you didn't mention this but default silence is bad as well. Removing sound would dumb down the game substantially as a marine.
–noun
3. the act, business, or practice of <b>constructing</b> houses, office buildings, etc.
Doesn't say anything about holding E.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So in NS when you hold E/+use at a structure that was freshly dropped your in game avatar is trying to bake a cake?
<!--quoteo(post=1675050:date=Apr 4 2008, 12:46 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Apr 4 2008, 12:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675050"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks, because from my post you could really deduce that I had no idea what immersion was.
Also, it may be that I just don't have enough IQ points to be able to connect immersion and holding E while facing a structure. Neither can I connect immersion and being vulnerable to skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're engaging yourself in the fictional environment by building the fictional structure by holding E because you have a hazardous environment around you. You should always be on the lookout/listening for skulks that could come from behind you and rip you a new ######ter. This is supposed to create suspense in the player. So, by immersing yourself in the atmosphere of the game you create suspense and excitement - which then leads to fun (or sometimes fear if the player is that much of a girl, but some people like scary games (not that NS is really scary though..)).
Fun > replayability > more popular game > developers win.
<!--quoteo(post=1675050:date=Apr 4 2008, 12:46 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Apr 4 2008, 12:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675050"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see, so developers know how to play a game better than the players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, dev's know how to create a game better than players, they then change the game based on how the players complain due to certain aspects of the game being 'unfair' or in other words 'OP' (prime example: World of Warcraft).
Now seriously, to see why 'busy' building must stay:
1. It does add to the game because it enhances dynamic vulnerability. For example when an armory is upgrading, when a higher lifeform is gesting, when a hive is building, when a phase gate is going up, etc. All of these events make the game more exciting because they create times of greater urgency versus times of lesser urgency. Contrast is important: if you're pressing E in the corner of a room with a vent above you, you're very vulnerable, and not even able to see skulks coming(scareh), but if you've got your guns out, ready to shoot at that vent, you're not that vulnerable. Now THAT's boring.
2. The concepts of "ranged vs. melee" and "slow Marines vs. fast aliens" are an integral part of the game. This means closing the distance by attacking busy-building marines is an integral part of the game, and so is keeping marines stationary for a time, giving skulks a chance to prepare ambushes and maneuver around the map. You can't put 5 vents every single place marines can build and expect this to solve the problem, nor can you depend on special abilities like leap.
3. Put yourself in a skulk's shoes for a change.
(I'd love to hear the NS version of Everlast's, "What It's Like", hehe)
(and if the shoes don't fit then you are a marine-stacking nub)
(and if you think skulks wear shoes you need help. that's almost as stupid as lerks wearing hats. or lerks being hats. or skulks being shoes. BTW, cheat code in NS: hold E on an RT while eating a sandwich for skulk shoes!)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
++
there is one technical method I can see this being implemented - as part of a larger new feel to playing marines. That would be the massive multitasking marines that do a ton of different things and then exploit opportunities as opposed to the carefully planning aliens that do one thing and one thing well.
However, even if that were the case I would still like to have to be limited when building in some manner, because that tension is palpable near vents, and it is more fun that way.
This argument would be good except that at the beginning of a game (and in all situations that matter) building marines never die to skulks. The <b>only</b> time a building marine can die to a skulk is when no one is covering him or when he is ramboing, or when the skulk has a chance to bhop into powersilo without the marine noticing, evading, or aiming 11 bullets into his attacker.
This idea would no doubt make the game faster paced, as the marine cap team is aggressing at the same rate as the pressure team, but I don't think that makes it a bad idea, it just makes it different from what NSPlayers are used to. It could be good, it could be bad, but I think it's definitely worth testing.
It would mean all of them build at the same time because all 5 marines can use auto build BECAUSE its 5 different structures and instead of 4 marines guarding (it should really be 0 because it counts asthough all 5 are building) 5 are so its like having TWICE as many people on your team when your sieging... Why would anyone ever shotgun rush a hive ever again???
(let me just sum this up again) 5 marines... Bots mean you can have 5 people effecitvely building when you should only be able to have 1 with 4 covering so it means 5x the building power and it means all 5 can cover...
Thats insane... Surely you cant have thought this bit through....
Bad idea!!! Needs to be thought through in ALL situations not just the building of RT's unless its limited to only building RT's...
Also OMG "then when the bot is destroyed, the marine can auto build again" so no cost and as soon as his bot on his rt dies he just kills the alien that kills it and starts the bot again...
You can limit it to RTs. Sieges are built in combat so its more hectic building anyway. I'd just prefer to reduce the amount of RTs and try to make capping quicker and more fighting based though. Capping involves quite a lot of cool mind games after all.
This idea would no doubt make the game faster paced, as the marine cap team is aggressing at the same rate as the pressure team, but I don't think that makes it a bad idea, it just makes it different from what NSPlayers are used to. It could be good, it could be bad, but I think it's definitely worth testing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, the marine won't die if someone is covering him. But that's just it: with autobuild, he could cover himself. He could plop an autobot then go camp a hallway of his choosing farther in. Maybe you wouldn't even have cap teams and pressure teams. If the pressure team can build without spending any time or effort, then everyone becomes the same cappin killin steamrollin group. So what if a skulk comes behind you and kills your rt bot? You're already at the next one building it. Either he can chomp it down and by the time he's done you have other rts built, or someone comes by and plops their autobot right back on it and continues on their way. Of course you might balance it by lowering rt health... which <b>does</b> solve the problem that is <b>even more</b> monotonous(to those so inclined) than holding E: chomping RTs.
I do agree it is something worth testing. As a droppable item with scalable res cost, the autobuildbot could be tested most efficiently. It could also be tested as an item you spawn with for free, no research. Then we could see what works best.
From my experience it was fun to build rts at the beginning, but I didn't chomp rts as new player, because it was neither an attracting action nor did it seem necessary to me.
I still enjoy those little fights related to building/defending/attacking marine rts, but that's the only refreshing and funny thing while holding a button and facing a structure.
I agree that suggestions like autobuild and similar stuff may reach too far, but I really would like to see a decrease in building- but especially chomping-time.
Less health and res-cost of rts may reduce the boring parts, while it keeps the fights for rts in the game.
You're engaging yourself in the fictional environment by building the fictional structure by holding E because you have a hazardous environment around you. You should always be on the lookout/listening for skulks that could come from behind you and rip you a new ######ter. This is supposed to create suspense in the player. So, by immersing yourself in the atmosphere of the game you create suspense and excitement - which then leads to fun (or sometimes fear if the player is that much of a girl, but some people like scary games (not that NS is really scary though..)).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't believe you didn't get it yet. There are tons of ways of implementing "building" into a game, holding down E is one of them.
Holding down E is not immersing because you are pressing a button on your keyboard and your electronic avatar marines' weapon disappears from your screen and you are still aware that it is a game and not The Matrix.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, dev's know how to create a game better than players, they then change the game based on how the players complain due to certain aspects of the game being 'unfair' or in other words 'OP' (prime example: World of Warcraft).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suppose that is why Blizzard decided to work closely with Korean pro-gamers in order to design SC2. How do you make a game better? Ask the good+ players that play it/have played it. I'm surprised that so few companies actually do this because 99% of all sequels that come out just end up blowing.
<!--quoteo(post=1675126:date=Apr 6 2008, 01:41 PM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PsympleJester @ Apr 6 2008, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675126"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This idea would totaly destroy aliens. Imagine a team of 5 marines all outside your hive building sieges, EXCEPT none of them have to build the siegers they all build automatically!
It would mean all of them build at the same time because all 5 marines can use auto build BECAUSE its 5 different structures and instead of 4 marines guarding (it should really be 0 because it counts asthough all 5 are building) 5 are so its like having TWICE as many people on your team when your sieging... Why would anyone ever shotgun rush a hive ever again???<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In NS2, marines will have Mobile Siege Turrets so they can build them even before going anywhere near the hive. Balancing autobuild in isn't anything over-the-top challenging.