<!--quoteo(post=1681102:date=Jun 14 2008, 03:12 AM:name=mattoX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mattoX @ Jun 14 2008, 03:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681102"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I tend to agree with Charlies comment to spending many hours playing in a more beautiful enviroment. It is more appealing towards the player. Look at Crysis and its maps, i guarantee the people who have played this game would prefer replaying the maps in the sunshine with the crystal clear ocean because of the simple fact that is beautiful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->How big is Crysis' online community? It's not exactly thriving (even if you look at retention rate instead of raw player numbers). I'd wager that games like Enemy Territory and certainly Battlefield have a greater ratio of game owners playing multiplayer than Crysis. This goes to show that in multiplayer games, fiction takes a backseat to gameplay as time goes on. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Indeed also in Counterstrike Source, which map is played in a vigorous fashion? De_dust2. I believe this because the map is one of the more [aesthetically?] appealing of the lot and beacuse its great and easy to navigate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The last bit is true, the first bit is so far off the mark it's untrue.
Dust2 is the pinnacle of level design. It's aesthetics are very minimal compared to many other CS maps. Chateau, Piranesi and Militia are far more detailed and aesthetically pleasing. Dust is played because it has the strongest gameplay. You essentially proved one of the points I was making.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. Don't forget, NS is not about the "good" marines and the "evil" aliens. It may seem appropriate from a marine perspective to have all the alien areas be dark and creepy, because they are the enemy. But NS allows you to play from the alien perspective, as well, and they are trying to survive the marine "invasion" as well. So a little more ambiguity in the lighting I think is appropriate. And, don't forget, an area doesn't just have to have no light to feel creepy and dramatic. Mist, infestation, spore particles in the air, sound effects can all combine to the the same effect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I was very careful to refer to the Aliens as the 'unknown'. It is both appropriate from a Marine's aesthetic expectations of an unknown enemy for them to dwell in unconventional locales, but also from an Alien's (close combat) perspective for them to ambush from dark spots.
Mist and fog are not the same as shadow. Mist obscures the ambusher's view as well as the target's. Darkness keeps the ambusher hidden and does not obstruct their view of their prey. Only a sensory chamber or parasite would help distinguish Marine figures in the mist, but remember that Marines also have Motion Tracking to aid them. Darkness rules supreme because an Alien lying motionless in wait will not show up on MT and won't be visible to the naked eye.
What you say about spore particles is interesting, though. If these particles were transparent to the Kharaa but opaque to Marines, that would create a worthwhile ambushing situation.
Sound effects obscure the signature audio for either an approaching Marine or Kharaa, so it doesn't work as a 'pure' Kharaa buff.
<!--quoteo(post=1681112:date=Jun 14 2008, 10:49 AM:name=haymo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(haymo @ Jun 14 2008, 10:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681112"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if you use darkness as a gameplay element you are using a quick fix to a gameplay flaw.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That makes no sense. How is darkness as a gameplay element a 'quick fix'? And what gameplay flaw do you mean?
The Thief series and Splinter Cell series heavily rely on darkness as a gameplay element, and that is by no means a gameplay flaw.
<!--quoteo(post=1681110:date=Jun 14 2008, 04:27 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Jun 14 2008, 04:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681110"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was very careful to refer to the Aliens as the 'unknown'. It is both appropriate from a Marine's aesthetic expectations of an unknown enemy for them to dwell in unconventional locales, but also from an Alien's (close combat) perspective for them to ambush from dark spots.
Mist and fog are not the same as shadow. Mist obscures the ambusher's view as well as the target's. Darkness keeps the ambusher hidden and does not obstruct their view of their prey. Only a sensory chamber or parasite would help distinguish Marine figures in the mist, but remember that Marines also have Motion Tracking to aid them. Darkness rules supreme because an Alien lying motionless in wait will not show up on MT and won't be visible to the naked eye.
What you say about spore particles is interesting, though. If these particles were transparent to the Kharaa but opaque to Marines, that would create a worthwhile ambushing situation.
Sound effects obscure the signature audio for either an approaching Marine or Kharaa, so it doesn't work as a 'pure' Kharaa buff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Odd, I could have sworn I read something regarding NS2 as being the war and NS1 was first contact. What I am trying to say is, Kharaa (aliens as you put it) are not unknown to the TSA Marines anymore, in fact, could have sworn it has been said they have been studying each other now, such as the this screen shot suggests:
I think the conflict is a bit more towards Natural vs Industrial aka Biological vs Cybernetic aka Appendage vs Tool. It is sorta like Kharaa are Ents and TSA are Orcs:
Also interesting though, is that mist/fog doesn't necessarily have to obscure the vision of both sides, isn't it possible to have filters for that? Sort of like night vision ... hmm, maybe call it heightened senses, no reason really that Hive sight shouldn't make a Marine stand out like a beacon in fog/mist.
And when it comes to Motion Tracking, who is to say the Kharaa haven't developed some evolutions to that? Hopefully the Unified Resource Model is the boon it was tasked to be, allowing a lot more diversity in what can be expected from NS2 then what we experienced in NS1, and realize that NS2 is new, its being built from a solid foundation on up to allow for all kinds of additions to the formula. Balance can equal more viable choices, including the benefits of light, fog, spores, infestation, liquid, and shadow to the Kharaa.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2008
Heh I'd like to see a alien "lab" where they study humans to enhance their weaponry <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Marine 1: commander what is this room, they have humans in cocoons... Comm: I have no idea soldier, never seen this before... Marine 2: could it be they are studying us?
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1681125:date=Jun 14 2008, 11:28 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Jun 14 2008, 11:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681125"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is sorta like Kharaa are Ents and TSA are Orcs:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually i would say that its more like Kharaa are rapidly evolving alien life forms, and the TSA are humans with guns - but thats just me being mean lol <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I have a <img src="http://se-portal.hu/mobilok/kiskep/k800_kicsi.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> Sony ericcson K800, and the Screen size is 240x320.
This pic is my Background <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1681110:date=Jun 14 2008, 09:27 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Jun 14 2008, 09:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681110"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How big is Crysis' online community? It's not exactly thriving (even if you look at retention rate instead of raw player numbers). I'd wager that games like Enemy Territory and certainly Battlefield have a greater ratio of game owners playing multiplayer than Crysis. This goes to show that in multiplayer games, fiction takes a backseat to gameplay as time goes on. The last bit is true, the first bit is so far off the mark it's untrue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed Crispy. Although i wasnt pointing to the fact of who plays what more. I was only putting foward the fact of the beauty that Crysis has alot of. It is great to play a game that looks great. Although as great as a game can look and even have alot of fancy technology, gameplay overules and sells the game, i agree with this 100%.
If it's impossible to adjust the lighting depending on a gameplay progress (like someone said, lighting is mostly compiled into the maps in Source), how about some additional visual effects f.e. when Marines are getting closer to the heavy infested hive area, the screen get blurry, or they starts to see the environment in a weird colors. Some sounds distortion could be cool as well.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1681172:date=Jun 15 2008, 03:41 PM:name=DoloresHaze)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DoloresHaze @ Jun 15 2008, 03:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681172"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->how about some additional visual effects f.e. when Marines are getting closer to the heavy infested hive area, the screen get blurry, or they starts to see the environment in a weird colors. Some sounds distortion could be cool as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
condensation builds up on the visors, as well as dirt /muck/slime <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1681175:date=Jun 15 2008, 06:36 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(schkorpio @ Jun 15 2008, 06:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681175"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->condensation builds up on the visors, as well as dirt /muck/slime <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comm please upgrade windex to level 3 lolol? Whatever you guys do to NS just make sure to keep it so I still always feel like I'm an extra in a sci fi movie.
<!--quoteo(post=1681125:date=Jun 14 2008, 01:28 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Jun 14 2008, 01:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681125"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also interesting though, is that mist/fog doesn't necessarily have to obscure the vision of both sides, isn't it possible to have filters for that? Sort of like night vision ... hmm, maybe call it heightened senses, no reason really that Hive sight shouldn't make a Marine stand out like a beacon in fog/mist.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Many animals see the infrared part of the spectrum. The military uses infrared to see through smoke and fog. I'm sure infrered sight or visors could be an obvious upgrade for both aliens and marines, if the hive-fog idea were adopted.
Visibility and 'sensory obstructions' can get pretty annoying. Sure the fog and shadows and eerie lights are cool and stuff when you first see them but they're not a lot of fun after the 100th time and you're trying to shoot aliens. Concept art looks good though, but i have to say; gameplay > graphics!
Different aliens would see in different ways - so for example, perhaps a gorge sees with tremorsense, so nothing would be rendered until an object moved - so in a certain radius the gorge would see a totally black level (except for a few orientation points like hives, res towers, chambers, etc.) but when a marine walked around, even silently, he would produce tremors and the gorge would see it - with or without walls in between.
===
Or like you said, infared vision for say, a skulk or fade - since they're the warrior classes it makes sense to base their vision on enemies in deathmatch.
A lerk might have a wallhack for any marines near alien structures, resulting in players who are naturally guided toward the jobs they should be doing, without forcing them to do them.
If you wanted the gorge to be more intuitive than just pitch black, you could give him a 5-10 foot visual range, then fall off his line of sight with black fog, but give him that tremorsense ability, above.
If you've noticed in any of my posts, one of my highest values is diversification of gameplay - this accomplishes that goal and has the capability to make the game more intuitive for newbies, which is always a good thing for an experience as innovative as NS2.
Great job, and good ideas - but I'm hoping you would take it even further, to have some kind of garden room on that map (kind of like the gardens in Bioshock) where aliens can blend into the vegetation. I got this picture in my head of this marine "farm" where marines grow crops and food inside this glass bubble, and walls would be transparent in that bubble so you could see the space and stars around you.
I'm also hoping to see some very alien based maps where you can easily see that the place is longtime abandoned by marines, and the aliens have taken over completely and started building their own world there.
<!--quoteo(post=1681183:date=Jun 15 2008, 11:36 AM:name=ArmoredPriapism)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ArmoredPriapism @ Jun 15 2008, 11:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681183"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Comm please upgrade windex to level 3 lolol? Whatever you guys do to NS just make sure to keep it so I still always feel like I'm an extra in a sci fi movie. Many animals see the infrared part of the spectrum. The military uses infrared to see through smoke and fog. I'm sure infrered sight or visors could be an obvious upgrade for both aliens and marines, if the hive-fog idea were adopted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha that made me laugh, the windex thing. But using fog in games is something I have always not liked. It lowers FPS too much and causes lagging. I remember when counter strike first came out. Anyone threw a smoke grenade and everyone would start to freeze haha. Plus I'm sure there would be an option to remove particles from showing and defeat the purpose of having a fog that hides thing. The same way raising your gamma real high up defeats the purpose of dark rooms usually.
Those poor plants are going to die <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />. Green plants reflect green light because they don't use it. This is just cruelity.
Speaking of lighting, honestly how many people used brightness 9999 gamma 9999 etc etc(cant remember the other commands) scripts to fix the lighting so they could see stuff? Most did. Bright maps are good for gameplay value, which is what I need to be the #1 factor that makes this game worthwhile.
Players choose to do that to enhance their gameplay according to their own beliefs. It's like Bhop scripts. They're not in the game, but it doesn't mean they can't be used. It also doesn't mean you have to have a Bhop script to enjoy the game. It's an option that the player can choose to make the game better (easier) for them.
Darkness doesn't necessary cripple gameplay. For a lot of people using the default settings, it actually enhances it.
<!--quoteo(post=1681225:date=Jun 16 2008, 12:52 PM:name=Radagast)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Radagast @ Jun 16 2008, 12:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681225"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Speaking of lighting, honestly how many people used brightness 9999 gamma 9999 etc etc(cant remember the other commands) scripts to fix the lighting so they could see stuff? Most did.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I seriously doubt that. Show some numbers.
<!--quoteo(post=1681241:date=Jun 16 2008, 09:09 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Jun 16 2008, 09:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681241"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I seriously doubt that. Show some numbers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He doesn't really need numbers. Why wouldn't a player want to be able to see his opponent better?
The only reason I can imagine is that they were concerned over atmosphere. If that's really a big deal to people, that's okay I guess, but it doesn't make sense to me to gimp your ability to play so that you can feel a certain "mood lighting."
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1681245:date=Jun 16 2008, 10:11 AM:name=Radix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Radix @ Jun 16 2008, 10:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681245"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He doesn't really need numbers. Why wouldn't a player want to be able to see his opponent better?
The only reason I can imagine is that they were concerned over atmosphere. If that's really a big deal to people, that's okay I guess, but it doesn't make sense to me to gimp your ability to play so that you can feel a certain "mood lighting."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I personally enjoy playing with normal gamma and look at dark areas as a challenge. I just have to use my head to figure out how likely and encounter is and plan accordingly. I use the included gamma tool to see both the lightest contrasts and the darkest contrasts, and it's unfortunate you guys abandoned hera because doesn't work with gamma turned all the way up. As long as you had your gamma adjusted properly you could see in both areas, but you knew you were taking a bit of a risk going through the dark corridor since it was harder to aim.
The oddest part about dark areas, especially here, was that it doesn't help aliens. It helps marines. Marines were dark green and blended 100 times better in the dark than orange aliens did.
"As long as you had your gamma adjusted properly you could see in both areas"
Nope, this is pretty much dependant on monitors and how bright in a room it is in real life. With my old monitor, I couldn't see anything in that hall way even with max brightness settings if there was any light at all in my room.
The thing is people who want to be better, will just turn their monitors up which then makes the game experience worse for the people who play with proper gamma. This is why darkness should not be a gameplay element in multiplayer games. It makes for frustration, unfair map design and a less-action-packed NS style gameplay. (if that's what they're still aiming towards)
*they need darkness If you can't even hide in your own hive; where can you? Having dynamic infestation blocking light is good. Blinking light in some areas is good too. A single marine with no upgrade shouldn't be ruling in the hive area. He should get shivers and ###### his pants; big time.
*they need obsticles Avoiding spawncamping. 1.04 was the SpawnCamping contest... Around hives; geometry must change. Hives are not ment to be here they are the infestation (and the other side is the bug killer). It must be 'derelict' stylized. We must feel it. So it gives strategic possibilities to aliens.
On the marine side: Light, large rooms, only walls (poor ambush possibilities) etc...
I like to think that maps should be a blending (from black to White) as you progress in the map.
I'm not talking about the feelings about dark/light. Just strategy. The first main battle must be in the middle of the map. Not in a hive or MS. This should be only to finish it.
It's easy to tell who was competitive in NS and who played for 'fun' from the replies in this thread.
Overly dark games = terrible. Just look at Doom 3, from a competitive gamers perspective, that game was terrible. Not being able to see my enemies when they aren't cloaked is just silly.
Sure, some areas should be shadowed, but not entire sections of map.
That's a good point Radagast, but in my opinion, games should be made for fun; competitiveness is something that individual players bring to games, if they choose to do so. Obviously you will always have competitiveness in games that pit teams against one another, but the overall point of playing a game is for fun, and for me at least, to soak up the atmosphere of the game world and enjoy the environment in which you are playing.
Take 'The Ship', for example. That game is a brilliantly crafted game and the gameplay is a very strong element. However, when I play that game, I mainly play it just to enjoy the environments that the developers created (including the levels themselves, as well as the characters within them).
However, I might be biased, being a level designer/environment artist myself. I tend to look at environments in a much more analytical way than most gamers without game design experience would.
<!--quoteo(post=1681287:date=Jun 16 2008, 08:30 PM:name=haymo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(haymo @ Jun 16 2008, 08:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681287"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The thing is people who want to be better, will just turn their monitors up which then makes the game experience worse for the people who play with proper gamma. This is why darkness should not be a gameplay element in multiplayer games. It makes for frustration, unfair map design and a less-action-packed NS style gameplay. (if that's what they're still aiming towards)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Look at Crysis and its maps, i guarantee the people who have played this game would prefer replaying the maps in the sunshine with the crystal clear ocean because of the simple fact that is beautiful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->How big is Crysis' online community? It's not exactly thriving (even if you look at retention rate instead of raw player numbers). I'd wager that games like Enemy Territory and certainly Battlefield have a greater ratio of game owners playing multiplayer than Crysis. This goes to show that in multiplayer games, fiction takes a backseat to gameplay as time goes on.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Indeed also in Counterstrike Source, which map is played in a vigorous fashion? De_dust2. I believe this because the map is one of the more [aesthetically?] appealing of the lot and beacuse its great and easy to navigate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The last bit is true, the first bit is so far off the mark it's untrue.
Dust2 is the pinnacle of level design. It's aesthetics are very minimal compared to many other CS maps. Chateau, Piranesi and Militia are far more detailed and aesthetically pleasing. Dust is played because it has the strongest gameplay. You essentially proved one of the points I was making.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. Don't forget, NS is not about the "good" marines and the "evil" aliens. It may seem appropriate from a marine perspective to have all the alien areas be dark and creepy, because they are the enemy. But NS allows you to play from the alien perspective, as well, and they are trying to survive the marine "invasion" as well. So a little more ambiguity in the lighting I think is appropriate. And, don't forget, an area doesn't just have to have no light to feel creepy and dramatic. Mist, infestation, spore particles in the air, sound effects can all combine to the the same effect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I was very careful to refer to the Aliens as the 'unknown'. It is both appropriate from a Marine's aesthetic expectations of an unknown enemy for them to dwell in unconventional locales, but also from an Alien's (close combat) perspective for them to ambush from dark spots.
Mist and fog are not the same as shadow. Mist obscures the ambusher's view as well as the target's. Darkness keeps the ambusher hidden and does not obstruct their view of their prey. Only a sensory chamber or parasite would help distinguish Marine figures in the mist, but remember that Marines also have Motion Tracking to aid them. Darkness rules supreme because an Alien lying motionless in wait will not show up on MT and won't be visible to the naked eye.
What you say about spore particles is interesting, though. If these particles were transparent to the Kharaa but opaque to Marines, that would create a worthwhile ambushing situation.
Sound effects obscure the signature audio for either an approaching Marine or Kharaa, so it doesn't work as a 'pure' Kharaa buff.
That makes no sense. How is darkness as a gameplay element a 'quick fix'? And what gameplay flaw do you mean?
The Thief series and Splinter Cell series heavily rely on darkness as a gameplay element, and that is by no means a gameplay flaw.
Mist and fog are not the same as shadow. Mist obscures the ambusher's view as well as the target's. Darkness keeps the ambusher hidden and does not obstruct their view of their prey. Only a sensory chamber or parasite would help distinguish Marine figures in the mist, but remember that Marines also have Motion Tracking to aid them. Darkness rules supreme because an Alien lying motionless in wait will not show up on MT and won't be visible to the naked eye.
What you say about spore particles is interesting, though. If these particles were transparent to the Kharaa but opaque to Marines, that would create a worthwhile ambushing situation.
Sound effects obscure the signature audio for either an approaching Marine or Kharaa, so it doesn't work as a 'pure' Kharaa buff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Odd, I could have sworn I read something regarding NS2 as being the war and NS1 was first contact. What I am trying to say is, Kharaa (aliens as you put it) are not unknown to the TSA Marines anymore, in fact, could have sworn it has been said they have been studying each other now, such as the this screen shot suggests:
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/cache/thumbnails/envconcept11_800x413.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I think the conflict is a bit more towards Natural vs Industrial aka Biological vs Cybernetic aka Appendage vs Tool. It is sorta like Kharaa are Ents and TSA are Orcs:
<a href="http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=psohBMQxV5w" target="_blank">http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=psohBMQxV5w</a>
Also interesting though, is that mist/fog doesn't necessarily have to obscure the vision of both sides, isn't it possible to have filters for that? Sort of like night vision ... hmm, maybe call it heightened senses, no reason really that Hive sight shouldn't make a Marine stand out like a beacon in fog/mist.
And when it comes to Motion Tracking, who is to say the Kharaa haven't developed some evolutions to that? Hopefully the Unified Resource Model is the boon it was tasked to be, allowing a lot more diversity in what can be expected from NS2 then what we experienced in NS1, and realize that NS2 is new, its being built from a solid foundation on up to allow for all kinds of additions to the formula. Balance can equal more viable choices, including the benefits of light, fog, spores, infestation, liquid, and shadow to the Kharaa.
Marine 1: commander what is this room, they have humans in cocoons...
Comm: I have no idea soldier, never seen this before...
Marine 2: could it be they are studying us?
actually i would say that its more like Kharaa are rapidly evolving alien life forms, and the TSA are humans with guns - but thats just me being mean lol <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<img src="http://se-portal.hu/mobilok/kiskep/k800_kicsi.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Sony ericcson K800, and the Screen size is 240x320.
This pic is my Background <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<img src="http://kepfeltoltes.hu/080615/NS2_Biosphere_Hive_Room_LOW_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Add more contrast, White balanced, Colors fixed, and Size (of course ) reduced <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
THX NS <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
The last bit is true, the first bit is so far off the mark it's untrue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed Crispy. Although i wasnt pointing to the fact of who plays what more. I was only putting foward the fact of the beauty that Crysis has alot of. It is great to play a game that looks great.
Although as great as a game can look and even have alot of fancy technology, gameplay overules and sells the game, i agree with this 100%.
condensation builds up on the visors, as well as dirt /muck/slime <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Comm please upgrade windex to level 3 lolol?
Whatever you guys do to NS just make sure to keep it so I still always feel like I'm an extra in a sci fi movie.
<!--quoteo(post=1681125:date=Jun 14 2008, 01:28 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Jun 14 2008, 01:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1681125"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also interesting though, is that mist/fog doesn't necessarily have to obscure the vision of both sides, isn't it possible to have filters for that? Sort of like night vision ... hmm, maybe call it heightened senses, no reason really that Hive sight shouldn't make a Marine stand out like a beacon in fog/mist.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Many animals see the infrared part of the spectrum. The military uses infrared to see through smoke and fog. I'm sure infrered sight or visors could be an obvious upgrade for both aliens and marines, if the hive-fog idea were adopted.
Different aliens would see in different ways - so for example, perhaps a gorge sees with tremorsense, so nothing would be rendered until an object moved - so in a certain radius the gorge would see a totally black level (except for a few orientation points like hives, res towers, chambers, etc.) but when a marine walked around, even silently, he would produce tremors and the gorge would see it - with or without walls in between.
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Or like you said, infared vision for say, a skulk or fade - since they're the warrior classes it makes sense to base their vision on enemies in deathmatch.
A lerk might have a wallhack for any marines near alien structures, resulting in players who are naturally guided toward the jobs they should be doing, without forcing them to do them.
If you wanted the gorge to be more intuitive than just pitch black, you could give him a 5-10 foot visual range, then fall off his line of sight with black fog, but give him that tremorsense ability, above.
If you've noticed in any of my posts, one of my highest values is diversification of gameplay - this accomplishes that goal and has the capability to make the game more intuitive for newbies, which is always a good thing for an experience as innovative as NS2.
I'm also hoping to see some very alien based maps where you can easily see that the place is longtime abandoned by marines, and the aliens have taken over completely and started building their own world there.
Love the direction NS2 is going, keep it up!
Whatever you guys do to NS just make sure to keep it so I still always feel like I'm an extra in a sci fi movie.
Many animals see the infrared part of the spectrum. The military uses infrared to see through smoke and fog. I'm sure infrered sight or visors could be an obvious upgrade for both aliens and marines, if the hive-fog idea were adopted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha that made me laugh, the windex thing. But using fog in games is something I have always not liked. It lowers FPS too much and causes lagging. I remember when counter strike first came out. Anyone threw a smoke grenade and everyone would start to freeze haha. Plus I'm sure there would be an option to remove particles from showing and defeat the purpose of having a fog that hides thing. The same way raising your gamma real high up defeats the purpose of dark rooms usually.
Darkness doesn't necessary cripple gameplay. For a lot of people using the default settings, it actually enhances it.
He doesn't really need numbers. Why wouldn't a player want to be able to see his opponent better?
The only reason I can imagine is that they were concerned over atmosphere. If that's really a big deal to people, that's okay I guess, but it doesn't make sense to me to gimp your ability to play so that you can feel a certain "mood lighting."
The only reason I can imagine is that they were concerned over atmosphere. If that's really a big deal to people, that's okay I guess, but it doesn't make sense to me to gimp your ability to play so that you can feel a certain "mood lighting."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I personally enjoy playing with normal gamma and look at dark areas as a challenge. I just have to use my head to figure out how likely and encounter is and plan accordingly. I use the included gamma tool to see both the lightest contrasts and the darkest contrasts, and it's unfortunate you guys abandoned hera because doesn't work with gamma turned all the way up. As long as you had your gamma adjusted properly you could see in both areas, but you knew you were taking a bit of a risk going through the dark corridor since it was harder to aim.
"As long as you had your gamma adjusted properly you could see in both areas"
Nope, this is pretty much dependant on monitors and how bright in a room it is in real life. With my old monitor, I couldn't see anything in that hall way even with max brightness settings if there was any light at all in my room.
*they need darkness
If you can't even hide in your own hive; where can you? Having dynamic infestation blocking light is good.
Blinking light in some areas is good too.
A single marine with no upgrade shouldn't be ruling in the hive area. He should get shivers and ###### his pants; big time.
*they need obsticles
Avoiding spawncamping. 1.04 was the SpawnCamping contest...
Around hives; geometry must change. Hives are not ment to be here they are the infestation (and the other side is the bug killer). It must be 'derelict' stylized. We must feel it. So it gives strategic possibilities to aliens.
On the marine side: Light, large rooms, only walls (poor ambush possibilities) etc...
I like to think that maps should be a blending (from black to White) as you progress in the map.
I'm not talking about the feelings about dark/light. Just strategy. The first main battle must be in the middle of the map. Not in a hive or MS. This should be only to finish it.
Overly dark games = terrible. Just look at Doom 3, from a competitive gamers perspective, that game was terrible. Not being able to see my enemies when they aren't cloaked is just silly.
Sure, some areas should be shadowed, but not entire sections of map.
Take 'The Ship', for example. That game is a brilliantly crafted game and the gameplay is a very strong element. However, when I play that game, I mainly play it just to enjoy the environments that the developers created (including the levels themselves, as well as the characters within them).
However, I might be biased, being a level designer/environment artist myself. I tend to look at environments in a much more analytical way than most gamers without game design experience would.
^^^