Marine Weapon Design Theory
Sirot
Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58851Members
Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58851Members
<div class="IPBDescription">A 5th primary weapon?</div>After catching up on all the ideas that the developers had about weapons, something irked me. The marines are only getting 6 weapons, where one is the sidearm (pistol) and the other is the grenade. Utility items are excluded. There is one basic starting weapon (the LMG) and three advanced weapons, where the HMG is a higher tier LMG. Ultimately, that means there are 3 types of primary weapons in NS1
It is true that when the player base is given the option of using 31 different weapons, would probably settle for 5 or 6 weapons that they would consider ideal. So they decided that there would be only 4 primary weapons and came up with the idea to give them permutations like a flamethrower attachment for the LMG. That is a great idea. What I really want to see is just a little bit more variety in the actual weapons.
What I am proposing is the addition of a 5th primary weapon and I don’t really care what it is as long as it functions differently from the rest. NS2 will allow marines to buy their weapons, so it’s going to be made even more obvious how little choice they have. I do want this weapon to be unique and not just a burst fire LMG.
Yes, I am aware that is a sin to suggest a new weapon for NS2.
Here is what we have so far in terms of weapons (some assumptions are made).
Light Machine Gun (LMG): This is the marine’s basic starting weapon is an automatic weapon. It is an all-around weapon that has the best cost out of all the other weapons, its free. Could the 5th weapon be a second option for the starting weapon? That’s an option.
Pistol: This is the marine’s sidearm is unique in video games just because it is actually as useful as the primary gun in some occasions. It serves the role of being the “rifle†of NS in the sense that is accurate and semi-automatic. The existence of the pistol makes having the 5th weapon being a rifle somewhat moot since it would overlap roles with the pistol and nullify the use of the very useful sidearm.
Shotgun: This is probably the first advanced weapon the marines get and well, it’s a shotgun. Not much else to say. The 5th weapon is not going to be a bigger shotgun.
Heavy Machine Gun (HMG): This is the step up from the LMG and simply serves the role of the bigger automatic weapon. The existence of two varieties of automatic weapons makes having the 5th weapon also be automatic somewhat dumb.
Grenade Launcher (GL): This is the most different weapon the marines can get. It is an explosive weapon instead of a ballistic weapon. This weapon serves the role of doing splash damage and destroying buildings. It is also a support weapon that is unwise to be used without the support of another marine. The 5th weapon won’t be an explosive weapon since we already have one, but it could serve the support role.
Additional Notes: The developers decided early on that NS is going to be very gritty and there will be very little to none energy weapons in the game. The Siege Gun exists, so there are exceptions to that rule.
So, what do we have in the end?
1. It cannot be an automatic weapon; the LMG and HMG do that already.
2. It cannot be a semi-automatic rifle since the Pistol does that already.
3. It cannot be an explosive weapon since the Grenade Launcher is one already.
4. It could be an alternative to the LMG as a starting weapon.
5. It could be a support weapon that requires another marine to be ideally useful.
6. It has to be gritty, but possibly could be a chemical or energy weapon since the Siege Gun exists.
7. It has to allow permutations.
Given that information, it would not make sense for the new weapon to be an alternative for the LMG. You cannot have a starting weapon being a support weapon since it hurts new players. What we left with is a support weapon that for the sake of uniqueness will not use bullets.
You are thinking flamethrower, but the LMG already has an attachment for that and is not enough of a support weapon.
What I suggest is a Chemical Laser.
This weapon is purely designed to have its own niche. It is a mid-tier weapon, but is very industrial in its appearance. The marine has two chemical tanks on his back with the tubes intertwined that connect to the weapon. The gun itself is very practical looking and seems to be designed with mining in mind. The backstory would be a common tool being slightly modified for military use.
It is an accurate weapon that deals a good amount of damage that needs to be charged up before it can be shot. It cannot be shot before it is charged and shoots immediately after it is charged. While it is charging it eats ammo and an audible noise is made. You can sustain the gun to be always at nearly charged to shoot immediately, but it will drain your ammo and the noise will alert your enemies.
The chemical laser is support weapon because of the time required to shoot and that requires a body of marines willing to hold of the enemy long enough to get a shot off. The weapon most familiar to the chemical laser is a rifle. But due to the nature of the weapon, it does not make the pistol useless. In fact, like the grenade launcher; the pistol becomes a much more important weapon.
Possible permutations would include making the weapon cone based for less damage, silenced charging and having laser to be sustained after it fired for a few seconds but only deal a little more damage overall.
That was my thought process involving in creating the chemical laser. The weapon was actually designed as I was typing this post out.
Anyone have any ideas that would fit the criteria of the 5th primary weapon?
It is true that when the player base is given the option of using 31 different weapons, would probably settle for 5 or 6 weapons that they would consider ideal. So they decided that there would be only 4 primary weapons and came up with the idea to give them permutations like a flamethrower attachment for the LMG. That is a great idea. What I really want to see is just a little bit more variety in the actual weapons.
What I am proposing is the addition of a 5th primary weapon and I don’t really care what it is as long as it functions differently from the rest. NS2 will allow marines to buy their weapons, so it’s going to be made even more obvious how little choice they have. I do want this weapon to be unique and not just a burst fire LMG.
Yes, I am aware that is a sin to suggest a new weapon for NS2.
Here is what we have so far in terms of weapons (some assumptions are made).
Light Machine Gun (LMG): This is the marine’s basic starting weapon is an automatic weapon. It is an all-around weapon that has the best cost out of all the other weapons, its free. Could the 5th weapon be a second option for the starting weapon? That’s an option.
Pistol: This is the marine’s sidearm is unique in video games just because it is actually as useful as the primary gun in some occasions. It serves the role of being the “rifle†of NS in the sense that is accurate and semi-automatic. The existence of the pistol makes having the 5th weapon being a rifle somewhat moot since it would overlap roles with the pistol and nullify the use of the very useful sidearm.
Shotgun: This is probably the first advanced weapon the marines get and well, it’s a shotgun. Not much else to say. The 5th weapon is not going to be a bigger shotgun.
Heavy Machine Gun (HMG): This is the step up from the LMG and simply serves the role of the bigger automatic weapon. The existence of two varieties of automatic weapons makes having the 5th weapon also be automatic somewhat dumb.
Grenade Launcher (GL): This is the most different weapon the marines can get. It is an explosive weapon instead of a ballistic weapon. This weapon serves the role of doing splash damage and destroying buildings. It is also a support weapon that is unwise to be used without the support of another marine. The 5th weapon won’t be an explosive weapon since we already have one, but it could serve the support role.
Additional Notes: The developers decided early on that NS is going to be very gritty and there will be very little to none energy weapons in the game. The Siege Gun exists, so there are exceptions to that rule.
So, what do we have in the end?
1. It cannot be an automatic weapon; the LMG and HMG do that already.
2. It cannot be a semi-automatic rifle since the Pistol does that already.
3. It cannot be an explosive weapon since the Grenade Launcher is one already.
4. It could be an alternative to the LMG as a starting weapon.
5. It could be a support weapon that requires another marine to be ideally useful.
6. It has to be gritty, but possibly could be a chemical or energy weapon since the Siege Gun exists.
7. It has to allow permutations.
Given that information, it would not make sense for the new weapon to be an alternative for the LMG. You cannot have a starting weapon being a support weapon since it hurts new players. What we left with is a support weapon that for the sake of uniqueness will not use bullets.
You are thinking flamethrower, but the LMG already has an attachment for that and is not enough of a support weapon.
What I suggest is a Chemical Laser.
This weapon is purely designed to have its own niche. It is a mid-tier weapon, but is very industrial in its appearance. The marine has two chemical tanks on his back with the tubes intertwined that connect to the weapon. The gun itself is very practical looking and seems to be designed with mining in mind. The backstory would be a common tool being slightly modified for military use.
It is an accurate weapon that deals a good amount of damage that needs to be charged up before it can be shot. It cannot be shot before it is charged and shoots immediately after it is charged. While it is charging it eats ammo and an audible noise is made. You can sustain the gun to be always at nearly charged to shoot immediately, but it will drain your ammo and the noise will alert your enemies.
The chemical laser is support weapon because of the time required to shoot and that requires a body of marines willing to hold of the enemy long enough to get a shot off. The weapon most familiar to the chemical laser is a rifle. But due to the nature of the weapon, it does not make the pistol useless. In fact, like the grenade launcher; the pistol becomes a much more important weapon.
Possible permutations would include making the weapon cone based for less damage, silenced charging and having laser to be sustained after it fired for a few seconds but only deal a little more damage overall.
That was my thought process involving in creating the chemical laser. The weapon was actually designed as I was typing this post out.
Anyone have any ideas that would fit the criteria of the 5th primary weapon?
Comments
Like those old hunting rifles, although not old. Six bullets to a clip. Has a scope. Can shoot through aliens and hit multiple aliens, as in --> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skulk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::skulk::" border="0" alt="skulk.gif" /> --- <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skulk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::skulk::" border="0" alt="skulk.gif" /> = 2 dead skulks.
And it has to sounds like this.
Shick, shick (pause for aiming) boom. (sounds of bullet casing hitting the floor) -- Rinse and repeat.
I know in a fast paced game like NS, people aren't gonna have alot of time to just stand there and aim with a scope, but i can't tell you how many times i have snuck up on a gorge that is across a room, too far to be accurate with LMG, i couldnt be stuffed with my pistol (lol).
The thing is that this couldn't be overpowered. i.e. 1 hit kill gorge, cus that would totally ruin NS. Just strong enough to badly hurt a gorge, without killing it.
Huh? The designers in one of their podcasts said that they wanted to keep the amount of weapons to a minimum to save resources (art assets) and that when players are given the choice of 20 different weapons (see Counter-Strike), they will probably only use 5 of them and ignore the rest.
The issue is no longer the HL1 engine but making the game as efficient as possible. That's also why they are considering permutations so you can use one LMG model with animations with slight modifications to have four different weapons.
I am referring to this:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/cache/thumbnails/NS2_marine_mockup_800x499.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/cache/thumbna...kup_800x499.jpg</a>
But in all honestly, I am basing this on information from 5 months ago.
EDIT: Regarding rifles. When I was thinking about the 5th weapon, this came up. There are mostly 3 issues with the rifle, one of which is outlined in the main post.
1. The pistol serves as a impromptu long range for the marines.
2. Why would you have a scoped weapon on a spaceship with cramped corridors?
3. Balancing damage is extremely tricky. You cannot have the damage be too low, or the LMG becomes a better weapon because it is automatic. However, if it is powerful enough to kill a skulk; it become eerily close to becoming a long range shotgun in damage dealing 125 damage in one shot. Biggest reason why I opted for a charging weapon is to avoid that.
EDIT 2: Given the current line up, the most obvious addition is a rifle-like weapon. A high accuracy gun with a pause between each shot. Hell, the chemical laser I suggested is pretty much the same thing. I do however believe just a straight up rifle won't be a good solution and that the chemical laser is the perfect one.
well ? did you think the marines are only founded and equiped to fight kahara ?
i think they are an army to stop any thread so of course an army will have scopes on thier rifles
if you want something without scope take a machine pistol like the P90 or MP5 they are made for short range and high bullet output but rifles has ever been a ranged weapon (M16 Ak47 G36)
The scopes that are on assault rifles are called reflex sights and they almost never have a magnification of more than 4x. These weapons are designed to be used within a 300yard range at most. The weapons where scopes could be useful are battle rifles (FN FAL, G3, CETME, Garand) and sniper rifles. No, the TSA won't issue scopes to their marines for use in CQB. And elite marines would certainly have enough brains to take them off when they need to.
Using sub-machine guns against armored opponents such as the Kharaa wouldn't fly well with the TSA.
I assume it would be differentiated from the HMG by doing slightly less DPS but having a longer range by being more accurate.
How about a weapon that irradiates a section of floor or wall for a short time. Anything could cross it, but take enough damage so marines can take it down a bit easier. To prevent pro spamming even the marines wouldn't be immune to it.
The damage would be dynamic based on the creature's max health so it can't take down a skulk, but an onos won't yawn at it. This would be primarily a anti-personal weapon and not cause too much to structures.
weapons that are used for very very special things like rocket louncher IN REALITY (not in games!!) are
just a few get it and just for breaking tanks
- so maybe develop a carryable sensor array wich in 120° of the aiming up to 30feet uncloackes aliens but the guy that
carries cant carry a weapon the same time.
- or a medi kit that SLOWLY!!!! heals other players (not armor only heath of course) (no gun while using of course)
- magnetic boots (expensive) to walk up walls (not for HA or JP)
- or a pheromone gun shooting biological stuff that disturbs tha alien players view a bit makes him dangle and blurrs the
screen
- net thrower to catch smaller aliens ^^ (ok this is not a good idea)
- deploy kit for HMG (expensive) makes deployment of hmg possible so that the accuracy is incrased and may reloading is
0.5 sec faster
- laser marker (VERY EXPENSIVE FULL RESEARCH) if a targed is marked (not once id needs to be marked all the time)
sieges in range concentrate thier fire JUST on this target and get a 10% range bonus (no gun while using of course)
- heat marker sees enemy heat signatures (instead of MT even when not moving) to limited range 30ft - 40ft and the
player using it could "mark up" the targets for the team mates (no gun while using of course)
- Sonnic traps (stolen from hidden mod hl²) if an alien runs trough an alert will appear to the commander and near by
marines (rember there is no alert on mines)
- engeneering kit (no pramary weapon avalable) reapirs armor 20% faster builds buildings 40% faster but no rifle
most of this ideas (i know just for marines atm) are for better teamplay some of them could may ruin gamplay of overpowered to cheap or to powerfull and ofcourse like in any RTS the aliens need counterparts or at least other stuff
I personally think chainsaw ftw
no, not really, Really is that the weapon can be some sort of laser, yes, the favored laser, but not chemical. The laser can simply have a 5 second burst of beam, then, as posted in 1st post, loud reload. Why 5 second burst? Why the fu** would a mining company make a laser that only lasts a second?
clip size 5
max ammo 5 clips
4 sec reloading time (clip)
2.5 sec reloading (shot to shot)
damage as shotgun
price 15 res
accuracy 20% unscoped 95% scoped but bouncing a bit standing and less ducking
this weapon would be great hunting skulk lerk gorge but to slow or weak for <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/fade.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::fade::" border="0" alt="fade.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tiny.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::onos::" border="0" alt="tiny.gif" />
edit:
at least what do you all think of different fire modes for lmg ? auto , semi , burst <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
Something I've enjoyed is in Dystopia, certain weapons have range fall off. So, the Heavy has this massive ion Cannon, similar to the laser rifle suggested. However, the damage falls off over distance, so it can't be as snipish as say the Light's Laser Rifle. However, the Light's Laser Rifle has a charge time where you can see the laser, and then you discharge, and if you charge for too long it weakens to no dmg.
I personally think chainsaw ftw
no, not really, Really is that the weapon can be some sort of laser, yes, the favored laser, but not chemical. The laser can simply have a 5 second burst of beam, then, as posted in 1st post, loud reload. Why 5 second burst? Why the fu** would a mining company make a laser that only lasts a second?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why not chemical? Laser technology used up till recently has been chemical. Instead of lugging around a battery, you instead carry chemicals that produce high amounts of energy needed to shoot the beam. In the NS universe the two chemicals could be a nanite sludge that high energy content but requires a catalyst to activate. A lot easier than lugging around a huge battery on your back.
Regarding why a mining company have a laser that only last a second... I'll use my scapegoat of that the TSA modified it to be more rugged but it lost some of its potency. Having it being a sustained beam kind of makes it too similar to an automatic weapon like the LMG/HMG. Keep the crosshairs on the target for the win.
It could always be a permutation like I originally said, but not a stock feature I think.
Pew. Pew.
I think if ns1 really needed a weapon, it would be this one. I believe the grenade launcher was originally intended to be the anti-"big alien" class weapon, though it falls short. Why? Because while it does damage, it takes a good many to kill a fade or onos all the same, and unless you're stuck, you're going to move before the rest explode underneath your feet.
What ns2 needs is a low-fire high-damage elephant cannon. No seriously. Make it sci-fi.. make it some massive energy gun. Give it a huge charge time so that aliens can avoid the danger if they wish. It shouldn't inflict enough damage to kill a fade or an onos, but it should do a decent amount of damage. Though the firing rate is such that you'd be an idiot to equip your marines with this weapon and send them off to kill a hive, as maybe it'd kill a skulk, but the next skulk gets an easy kill.
As it stands now, you'd have to fire at a fade for about a full 5 seconds with an hmg before he dies. I know for a fact that fades (veteran players) can get within close distance of you well under 2 seconds and leave in well under 2 seconds, so assuming you never miss, the best you can hope for is that the fade doesn't get enough time to strike you. It's ridiculous. Hmgs were supposed to be the power weapons. Understandably, you're supposed to have strength in numbers and have several marines on a single fade. Usually doesn't end up that way however.
They need to have a weapon for marines that while it'd make them useless versus skulks and lerks, at least they'd HAVE a chance versus fades and onos. I'd be for the idea of making it deal slightly less health damage and slightly more armor damage, thus not killing a fade or onos, but rendering them very vulnerable to gunfire (but only if struck).
I think if ns1 really needed a weapon, it would be this one. I believe the grenade launcher was originally intended to be the anti-"big alien" class weapon, though it falls short. Why? Because while it does damage, it takes a good many to kill a fade or onos all the same, and unless you're stuck, you're going to move before the rest explode underneath your feet.
What ns2 needs is a low-fire high-damage elephant cannon. No seriously. Make it sci-fi.. make it some massive energy gun. Give it a huge charge time so that aliens can avoid the danger if they wish. It shouldn't inflict enough damage to kill a fade or an onos, but it should do a decent amount of damage. Though the firing rate is such that you'd be an idiot to equip your marines with this weapon and send them off to kill a hive, as maybe it'd kill a skulk, but the next skulk gets an easy kill.
As it stands now, you'd have to fire at a fade for about a full 5 seconds with an hmg before he dies. I know for a fact that fades (veteran players) can get within close distance of you well under 2 seconds and leave in well under 2 seconds, so assuming you never miss, the best you can hope for is that the fade doesn't get enough time to strike you. It's ridiculous. Hmgs were supposed to be the power weapons. Understandably, you're supposed to have strength in numbers and have several marines on a single fade. Usually doesn't end up that way however.
They need to have a weapon for marines that while it'd make them useless versus skulks and lerks, at least they'd HAVE a chance versus fades and onos. I'd be for the idea of making it deal slightly less health damage and slightly more armor damage, thus not killing a fade or onos, but rendering them very vulnerable to gunfire (but only if struck).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
YES!!!
this is exactly why they need a *GASP!* RAIL GUN!
this is technically a Gaussian weapon, but it will need to be a TOTAL "HOLY ###### GUYS COVER MY ASS!!!" model....
suggestions?
5~10% cone.
5 sec charge, does SLIGHTLY less then a shotgun.
10+ seconds, does ALMOST enough to kill a paper fade. (250+-?) and can pass through, and bounce 1 time off of a wall (like tau, but NEVER OHK fade...)
less then 5 seconds, 1~30 damage...(half second delay between each of these ping pong ball shots...)
has to be "using" to charge, (no quickswitch, pwn...)
quickswitch RESETS the charge to 0.
ammo: total of 20, 2 per armory, 5 per com pack.
this should be pretty fair, and balanced.
should have SOME range, but not practical for sniping at all...
single bounce could allow for some REALLY SLOW, but effective seige style techniques.
NO bonus vs structures, or anything... so GL would still dominate structures.
slow charge will result in some funny attempts to kill skulks without charging, which will basically end up with them getting pummeled with ping pong balls...
Thanks.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=104195&st=0&start=0" target="_blank">Here is how you add a sniper rifle into NS without it becoming useless.</a>
I really hope the pistol isn't a sniper again, while it was incredibly effective (if you use it right, skulks beware)
Also rifles in this game is a bad idea.
Perhaps what is needed is a <!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->new class of weapon<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. <b>A larger, more powerful weapon that a vanilla marine just cannot carry</b>.
<!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->Only Heavy Armored marines would be capable of carrying these new weapons<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. This makes these weapons different, but at the same time allows them to be similar to existing weapons.
Some examples off the top of my head:
Heavy Grenade Launcher (holds 8 shells instead of 4)
Siege Rifle/gaus cannon (some kind of Onos blasting weapon)
Heavy Flamethrower (huge fuel supply tanks)
i think it would be great if any lifeform would be able to spit at a marine and infects him (spitting this way needs a heavy cooldown time) and the infectet marine is loosing health over time till he got healed by amory or medpack otherwise he dies.
so may about 10dmg every 10 seconds that gives him about 100 seconds (1min and 40 secs) to heal or die if he was totaly healthy when infected
or give the goerge the ability to drop some kind of alien mines that blow up some toxic stuff
or let the fade spray some short range acid to damage armor (so heavy train could be encountered better)
or give the sklulk some stings he can throw with 3 hives up to do some range damage
or the onos give him a bit of defens against 5 rines with railgausssniper wtf, spending so much res and then just die trough 5 placed shots ??
think about alien counterparts if you give the marines a weapon to nail some onos
i think it would be great if any lifeform would be able to spit at a marine and infects him (spitting this way needs a heavy cooldown time) and the infectet marine is loosing health over time till he got healed by amory or medpack otherwise he dies.
so may about 10dmg every 10 seconds that gives him about 100 seconds (1min and 40 secs) to heal or die if he was totaly healthy when infected
or give the goerge the ability to drop some kind of alien mines that blow up some toxic stuff
or let the fade spray some short range acid to damage armor (so heavy train could be encountered better)
or give the sklulk some stings he can throw with 3 hives up to do some range damage
or the onos give him a bit of defens against 5 rines with railgausssniper wtf, spending so much res and then just die trough 5 placed shots ??
think about alien counterparts if you give the marines a weapon to nail some onos<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am not sure it is possible to discuss anything about the aliens since we know nothing about them outside from a few vague things that we can assume from NS1. Hell, they have a commander now!
A fifth weapon like hawk's idea is a perfect addition.
But, the 1/4th I've learned is mostly questions.....=)
As stated earlier, I am really unsure if a rifle is suitable but I don't know how much difference there can be between two automatic weapons.