Looks awesome, i can certainly see the potential of the end product once everything is put into place.
just don't be afraid to make your video/podcast longer <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> Some of us are genuinely interested in what your process is. Thank you though for keeping us up to date!
Is there any spec map or normal map? Personally I would make it more wet and slimy, sticky looking. I'm not sure if it's just the way the lighting is setup in the render but it looks really flat to me. No shadowing it seems.
<!--quoteo(post=1695580:date=Dec 9 2008, 01:41 AM:name=snooops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(snooops @ Dec 9 2008, 01:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695580"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its a nice Podcast again, but please dont spent so much time at art and design, give us features ... we can see and get happy about nice models if we play the game. I getting tired of this, and the whole ns community too. su much servers going down <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> more and more players leaving the ns game ... so give us FEATURES!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Different people have different jobs. As best as I can tell Cory does art stuff, Max does engine stuff, Charlie does game mechanics stuff. I suspect that Cory spending a lot of time on art doesn't stop the others working on their own stuff.
It is really hard to reveal features because during testing you may find out there are not useable and might have to deal with a community backlash if they fell in love with the idea. It is a lot safer to release art assets instead until the game has more definite features.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
edited December 2008
I can't really accurate judge this in terms of overall implentation, but.. It seems to me you're trading alot of details that was previously incorporated trough the texture in exchange of a more detailed base model, falling somewhat short of the overall detail-level. This is an usual effect I have observed in games in general. With increased resolutions in textures and polycounts, the need for accenting the textures has disappeared and the "plasticity"-factor gone up. Think Doom 3 (which had awesome shadows btw), oblivion vs morrowind or even the starcraft 2 pre/post graphic-iteration.
My 2 aesthetic-cents.
Edit:
I think a part of the reason is also how much more time consuming it would be fill a detailed texture in modern games compared to back then - that's why it's so important to prioritize. Having a specific stylistic approach can cut down the workload instead of going the ultra-realistic route.
<!--quoteo(post=1695788:date=Dec 10 2008, 03:00 PM:name=Epidemic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Epidemic @ Dec 10 2008, 03:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695788"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't really accurate judge this in terms of overall implentation, but.. It seems to me you're trading alot of details that was previously incorporated trough the texture in exchange of a more detailed base model, falling somewhat short of the overall detail-level. This is an usual effect I have observed in games in general. With increased resolutions in textures and polycounts, the need for accenting the textures has disappeared and the "plasticity"-factor gone up. Think Doom 3 (which had awesome shadows btw), oblivion vs morrowind or even the starcraft 2 pre/post graphic-iteration. My 2 cents<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are using two very weird examples. Characters looking like plastic is not much of an issue anymore, Doom 3 is an old game and oblivion while not as old, is built on the gamebyro engine which is... not a good thing.
<!--quoteo(post=1695749:date=Dec 10 2008, 07:49 AM:name=Revenge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Revenge @ Dec 10 2008, 07:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695749"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Different people have different jobs. As best as I can tell Cory does art stuff, Max does engine stuff, Charlie does game mechanics stuff. I suspect that Cory spending a lot of time on art doesn't stop the others working on their own stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It does stop Cory from working on other stuff though.
This Hive is really great, i guess the low-end MASC model needs more Marcus Dublin <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hive5.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::hive::" border="0" alt="hive5.gif" />
And finally, you have used a good mic and really done the needed effort to product this video. I've been pointing about sound quality issues for hive knows how long and finally I'm satisfied. Thank you and keep up the excellent work!
Even if nothing's finalized yet, I do wish you guys would give us some more teasers about gameplay. Maybe just a brief discussion with each update about something the team has been thinking about recently. Basically the only thing we know about NS2 right now is that there will be an alien commander, a hive and a portable siege cannon.
True, we don't know a lot about NS2 yet, but seriously, portable siege cannon? That's all I need to know <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1696018:date=Dec 12 2008, 06:00 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zek @ Dec 12 2008, 06:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696018"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even if nothing's finalized yet, I do wish you guys would give us some more teasers about gameplay. Maybe just a brief discussion with each update about something the team has been thinking about recently. Basically the only thing we know about NS2 right now is that there will be an alien commander, a hive and a portable siege cannon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There are other things we've talking about; granted you'd have to listen to all of the podcasts to know about them. Here are a few other things off the top of my head we've announced:<ul><li>Marines buying weapons</li><li>Dynamic infestation</li><li>Alien canals</li><li>Weld bots</li><li>Booking it (aka sprinting)</li><li>Enhanced welding</li></ul>We've also podcasted about how NS2 is 1/3 unchanged, 1/3 enhanced, and 1/3 new, so expect that anything we haven't explicitly discussed is going to be similar to NS1.
Things are really starting to solidify, so you'll hear more soon, but we're pretty apprehensive about discussing anything too much before it has really been vetted. I'm sure you'll continue to see some tidbits in the Twitter feed though.
This brings back some good NS1 memories of me standing on top of a hive as a marine emptying my clips into it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
It was nice to see the process behind the development of the artwork and how you were able to handle the outsourcing situation. Unlike most other dev studios who try to rush a game to release, you guys take your time and make sure everything is done right before it is released. I feel confident that when NS2 comes out, it will be a top-quality game from the start.
any downloadable link not on youtube? { youtube is banned here in this country <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> }
looks great! can't wait to put some bullets into it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
First, thank you for all your efforts. I do appreciate it.
About the hive <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hive5.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::hive::" border="0" alt="hive5.gif" /> , I want to emphasize what was mentioned earlier in the thread.
First it would be fantastic if the hive anchors could dynamically generate based on the layout of its environment. It would really give a sense like "Hey this thing is living, deciding and adapting= a real threat."
Second, how will the Hive begin to form from the beginning. In current NS it's just a ghost model that appears 'magically'. But in NS 2 will it grow, albeit, very rapidly and slimily? Or better yet could there be a new lumbering and grotesque life form that one must choose to start the alien race?
Imagine a round yet towering sack, swaying on it's under evolved and utterly dwarfed set of legs carefully bearing it's precious (now currently parasitic and half developed Hive <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hive5.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::hive::" border="0" alt="hive5.gif" />) to just the right spot for gestation. Heaven knows what great animations you guys could use to get it from ground to ceiling...maybe something like that "string ball" they were experimenting with in half-life 2. Where lines (in this case it would be slimy, shooting anchoring tentacles) would burst out and attach to 4 or 5 points on anything above the chosen point of gestation (hive deployment).
Then the hive could pull itself up to into a protective nook where it would proceed to ingest it's host carrier and become fully developed, glowing and eerily illuminating it's dark corner in the ceiling. Dripping with slime and filling the ungodly birthing chamber with haunting groans. Soon below the ground is cover with eggs shrouded with nurturing clouds of moisture.
Wow, I went on a bit. But there are just so many opportunities like this. Wonder work guys. I enjoy this fictional little universe almost as much as you. Please let me know if this is at all interesting to anyone there.
<!--quoteo(post=1696204:date=Dec 16 2008, 11:41 AM:name=uber_earp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(uber_earp @ Dec 16 2008, 11:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696204"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Second, how will the Hive begin to form from the beginning. In current NS it's just a ghost model that appears 'magically'. But in NS 2 will it grow, albeit, very rapidly and slimily? Or better yet could there be a new lumbering and grotesque life form that one must choose to start the alien race?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is a very good question... I'm curious to know myself.
I suppose you could use animation to distort portions of the hive so that you don't need multiple iterations of the model. Have something like infestation (dynamic mm!) forming above the hive, from which tendrils extend down attached to what starts off as a small ball. The ball expands and sprouts the various distinct features like tentacles stretching out from the protective hood that pops out from the top. It would be hard to make that look good without distorting textures too badly. Anything would look better than it materializing though. you could always shroud it in the smoke or whatever you want to call it as it expands.
Any official thoughts on the matter?
p.s love the twitter updates. I don't often check the main page but reading about potentially having mocap for the marines... awesome. just awesome.
The quick and dirty way would be for dynamic infestation to grow over into an amorphous blob, then slowly into the shape of a hive, then fall away, revealing a hive.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited December 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1696268:date=Dec 17 2008, 01:19 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Dec 17 2008, 01:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696268"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The quick and dirty way would be for dynamic infestation to grow over into an amorphous blob, then slowly into the shape of a hive, then fall away, revealing a hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Coincidentally, that also may be the coolest. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Also, the code to do this could be written to generalize to any model, and then you could use the same process for spawning every lifeform/chamber.
I feel really happy seeing ingamet fast footage, ok, that could be an level editing tool but, its something.
OK, I just thought about something that would be realy awesome. You guy know that Aliens in StarCraft ? those who the floor changes with a glommy swisy purple "gel". I just was imagining something like that in the rooms that have a hive or a lot of aliens structures.
The implementation could be just an texture overlap or something like that, but with this awesome feature would give for sure a plus to the enviorment and the in-game XP.
La ChupacabraJoin Date: 2008-02-25Member: 63729Members
<!--quoteo(post=1696857:date=Dec 29 2008, 03:39 AM:name=Roger.King)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Roger.King @ Dec 29 2008, 03:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696857"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I feel really happy seeing ingamet fast footage, ok, that could be an level editing tool but, its something.
OK, I just thought about something that would be realy awesome. You guy know that Aliens in StarCraft ? those who the floor changes with a glommy swisy purple "gel". I just was imagining something like that in the rooms that have a hive or a lot of aliens structures.
The implementation could be just an texture overlap or something like that, but with this awesome feature would give for sure a plus to the enviorment and the in-game XP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They got it already, it's called Dynamic Infestation (DI). It wil grow in real time, turn off lights, break doors and many more! <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2006/12/dynamic_infestation" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2006/12/dynamic_infestation</a>
With the deployment, I believe it would add to gameplay and diversity if the Gorge can spawn the hive in a general area defined in the hive room rather than just one spot evey time.
down side of it though is the fine tuning to remove any exploits.
Comments
just don't be afraid to make your video/podcast longer <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> Some of us are genuinely interested in what your process is. Thank you though for keeping us up to date!
I getting tired of this, and the whole ns community too. su much servers going down <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> more and more players leaving the ns game ... so give us FEATURES!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Different people have different jobs. As best as I can tell Cory does art stuff, Max does engine stuff, Charlie does game mechanics stuff. I suspect that Cory spending a lot of time on art doesn't stop the others working on their own stuff.
My 2 aesthetic-cents.
Edit:
I think a part of the reason is also how much more time consuming it would be fill a detailed texture in modern games compared to back then - that's why it's so important to prioritize. Having a specific stylistic approach can cut down the workload instead of going the ultra-realistic route.
My 2 cents<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are using two very weird examples. Characters looking like plastic is not much of an issue anymore, Doom 3 is an old game and oblivion while not as old, is built on the gamebyro engine which is... not a good thing.
It does stop Cory from working on other stuff though.
The Hive looks good!
And finally, you have used a good mic and really done the needed effort to product this video. I've been pointing about sound quality issues for hive knows how long and finally I'm satisfied. Thank you and keep up the excellent work!
- Garo
There are other things we've talking about; granted you'd have to listen to all of the podcasts to know about them. Here are a few other things off the top of my head we've announced:<ul><li>Marines buying weapons</li><li>Dynamic infestation</li><li>Alien canals</li><li>Weld bots</li><li>Booking it (aka sprinting)</li><li>Enhanced welding</li></ul>We've also podcasted about how NS2 is 1/3 unchanged, 1/3 enhanced, and 1/3 new, so expect that anything we haven't explicitly discussed is going to be similar to NS1.
Things are really starting to solidify, so you'll hear more soon, but we're pretty apprehensive about discussing anything too much before it has really been vetted. I'm sure you'll continue to see some tidbits in the Twitter feed though.
It was nice to see the process behind the development of the artwork and how you were able to handle the outsourcing situation. Unlike most other dev studios who try to rush a game to release, you guys take your time and make sure everything is done right before it is released. I feel confident that when NS2 comes out, it will be a top-quality game from the start.
Awesome job guys... keep up the good work!
can't wait to put some bullets into it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
couldn't have said it better myself!
About the hive <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hive5.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::hive::" border="0" alt="hive5.gif" /> , I want to emphasize what was mentioned earlier in the thread.
First it would be fantastic if the hive anchors could dynamically generate based on the layout of its environment. It would really give a sense like "Hey this thing is living, deciding and adapting= a real threat."
Second, how will the Hive begin to form from the beginning. In current NS it's just a ghost model that appears 'magically'. But in NS 2 will it grow, albeit, very rapidly and slimily? Or better yet could there be a new lumbering and grotesque life form that one must choose to start the alien race?
Imagine a round yet towering sack, swaying on it's under evolved and utterly dwarfed set of legs carefully bearing it's precious (now currently parasitic and half developed Hive <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hive5.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::hive::" border="0" alt="hive5.gif" />) to just the right spot for gestation. Heaven knows what great animations you guys could use to get it from ground to ceiling...maybe something like that "string ball" they were experimenting with in half-life 2. Where lines (in this case it would be slimy, shooting anchoring tentacles) would burst out and attach to 4 or 5 points on anything above the chosen point of gestation (hive deployment).
Then the hive could pull itself up to into a protective nook where it would proceed to ingest it's host carrier and become fully developed, glowing and eerily illuminating it's dark corner in the ceiling. Dripping with slime and filling the ungodly birthing chamber with haunting groans. Soon below the ground is cover with eggs shrouded with nurturing clouds of moisture.
Wow, I went on a bit. But there are just so many opportunities like this. Wonder work guys. I enjoy this fictional little universe almost as much as you. Please let me know if this is at all interesting to anyone there.
this is a very good question... I'm curious to know myself.
I suppose you could use animation to distort portions of the hive so that you don't need multiple iterations of the model. Have something like infestation (dynamic mm!) forming above the hive, from which tendrils extend down attached to what starts off as a small ball. The ball expands and sprouts the various distinct features like tentacles stretching out from the protective hood that pops out from the top. It would be hard to make that look good without distorting textures too badly. Anything would look better than it materializing though. you could always shroud it in the smoke or whatever you want to call it as it expands.
Any official thoughts on the matter?
p.s love the twitter updates. I don't often check the main page but reading about potentially having mocap for the marines... awesome. just awesome.
Coincidentally, that also may be the coolest. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Also, the code to do this could be written to generalize to any model, and then you could use the same process for spawning every lifeform/chamber.
OK, I just thought about something that would be realy awesome. You guy know that Aliens in StarCraft ? those who the floor changes with a glommy swisy purple "gel". I just was imagining something like that in the rooms that have a hive or a lot of aliens structures.
The implementation could be just an texture overlap or something like that, but with this awesome feature would give for sure a plus to the enviorment and the in-game XP.
OK, I just thought about something that would be realy awesome. You guy know that Aliens in StarCraft ? those who the floor changes with a glommy swisy purple "gel". I just was imagining something like that in the rooms that have a hive or a lot of aliens structures.
The implementation could be just an texture overlap or something like that, but with this awesome feature would give for sure a plus to the enviorment and the in-game XP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They got it already, it's called Dynamic Infestation (DI). It wil grow in real time, turn off lights, break doors and many more!
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2006/12/dynamic_infestation" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/2006/12/dynamic_infestation</a>
down side of it though is the fine tuning to remove any exploits.
thoughts?