Phase gate priority

Sifor · February 2009

<div class="IPBDescription">Suggestion</div>Hi every one !

here its my idea, i don't know if its posted already but...

I think it will be useful to have a Phase gate priority, example !

Your have the PG in marine start and 2 other in A and B.

When you phase you go first in A and after B, but if we can set a priority to B you gonna phase to B first and after to A .

it can be useful for saving a PG, and Rush.

So what you think about that !!??!!??

Good day everyone !

battlearmour · February 2009

Easier if it just comes up with a minimap whenever you step on a Phase Gate, which a selection of other Phase Gates you can transport to. Or make it into a control panel you select with the minimap on. Ja.

locallyunscene · February 2009

This is a lot like a topic I posted <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=101367&hl=queue" target="_blank">a couple years ago</a>. I vote yes.

pSyk0mAn · February 2009

Although pg priorities sound good to me, you have to consider some disadvantages and exploits:
-In some situations the commander could change priorities at the right time to basicly switch off one or more phase gates and thus disable the drawback of having many phase gates on the map.
-If you are able to choose your location (which is very annoying for fast phasing, imho, in case you ever tried this plugin) you also disable the drawback of having many phase gates and of having access to most parts of the map.

I can see it working, if there is some cooldown time to switch priorities or if there is some kind of res/energy/whatever cost involved.

Prefix · February 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(battlearmour @ Feb 6 2009, 04:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1699644"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Easier if it just comes up with a minimap whenever you step on a Phase Gate, which a selection of other Phase Gates you can transport to. Or make it into a control panel you select with the minimap on. Ja.</div>

That could be even slower.

StixNStonz · February 2009

This is a concept that should have been implemented at some point in NS1. The comm simply needs a way to determine which PG is the first PG that people phase to when they leave base. It still needs to maintain the loop, so the PGs after the priority still need to cycle.

But, the idea has issues. Mainly that you need to be able to tell which PG is the Base PG, too. Otherwise the whole this is pointless.

An easy solution could be to force the first PG to be built within a certain radius of the CC. The IPs are forced within this area, so it makes sense that the Base PG could be restricted to be nearby the IPs. The radius of the CC would likely need to be upped for this.

Then, that PG would be tagged as the Base PG, and any other pg built could have a flag on it that, when the commander clicks the flag, it becomes the first PG to phase to from the Base PG.

Harimau · February 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pSyk0mAn @ Feb 7 2009, 12:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1699648"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Although pg priorities sound good to me, you have to consider some disadvantages and exploits:
-In some situations the commander could change priorities at the right time to basicly switch off one or more phase gates and thus disable the drawback of having many phase gates on the map.
-If you are able to choose your location (which is very annoying for fast phasing, imho, in case you ever tried this plugin) you also disable the drawback of having many phase gates and of having access to most parts of the map.

I can see it working, if there is some cooldown time to switch priorities or if there is some kind of res/energy/whatever cost involved.</div>
I'm really not sure how to respond to this, except that I disagree. I don't disagree that this idea will eliminate the drawback. I just disagree that the drawback is necessary at all.

In response to StixNStonz: Well, if it's cyclical.. eg. Base PG, forward PG A and forward PG B. You could just set each PG a number. eg. Base PG is 0, forward PG A is 1, forward PG B is 2; if someone phases from 2 they'll go straight to 0, 0 goes to 1, 1 goes to 2. Then you could just change each PG's assigned number, to determine the order in which someone would phase. Maybe add an indicator for the 'last' PG (which will go to PG 1).
Maybe there could be an indicator that tells marines&comm what PG a particular PG will phase to (could simply be a straight line on the map). Perhaps active PGs could be given a list (a table), and maybe colour-coded for unique ID (or simply given a number in the order it was built, eg. 3-digit number beginning with "001". not the same number used to determine order of priority), and you'd be able to just drag a PG Row above another (like in for example, any modern download manager) - it could have information in the row that says the build number of the PG (eg. 003), and what room it is in (since rooms are named anyway, right?), and the phase-lines would change to reflect the new order.

Radix · February 2009

Why don't you just let the comm specify where gates go after building them.

Zek · February 2009

There are complications with allowing comms to pick a priority phase - what if marines are at phase #2? Will they have to phase through everything else, back to the base and <i>then</i> get to the priority phase? Or will they go straight to the priority phase even if it's dying and one of them was told to go back to base?

IMHO the only real solution is to let marines pick for themselves. You +use the phase gate and a minimap pops up - each phase on the map is displayed with a number with the most recently built always being 1, you press that number to go to that phase. Or if you press +use again at the minimap, you'll automatically go to the same phase as last time.

ryknow69 · February 2009

Sounds nice.

Bacillus · February 2009

Squad spawning and smaller maps are most likely going to change the PG play completely. Nevertheless, the present use spamming could probably be left out from NS2 unless it works really smooth with the rest of the gameplay. At that point the stuff suggested here is at least worth considering.

Radix · February 2009

There are more complications with allowing people to pick where they go than there are when you let the comm do it. The worst thing that will happen if the commander is switching gates around is a few marines have to phase 1-2 times extra, once.

If you let players do it the gates won't ever be predictable.

EDIT: Didn't realize that you were suggesting a point and click interface. That seems overly complex to me - why make the marines click multiple times when they can just go where they need to?

You're screwing both pubbers and competitive players - on the one hand the pubber has no idea where he should go if he's new, and on the other you're taking a simple task and making it clunky to deal with for people who do know where to go. Plus there are balance issues with letting people go anywhere they want from anywhere they are.

StarClaws · February 2009

Simply make it commander oriented based on his priority for his phase gates. I get tired of 2 hive lockdowns on NS1 and recycle the phasegates when I finally get a phasegate up at the last hive regardless if they drop a 2nd hive or not.

Code Aspect:
Allowing the comm to select 'phase gate at hive' (Clicking on it) and having a button both for mouse (like the menu with the recycle button) and push a number (for quick keys) corresponding to what priority he would like ... Simple code. Makes quick phasing easy. And you can just have it move the other phase gates down the list as a lower priority.

Another idea is to have this related to IPs and disallow potential easy spawn camping by changing what the next IP to spawn will be based on priority.

Jimyd · February 2009

Easiest thing to do is to do it like other RTSs (COUGH STARCRAFT COUGH?), and make a phasegate to have a priority set on it.

So a Commander has 3 phasegates. Commander double clicks on phasegate 3 (most recent phasegate to be built). When a Marine uses any phasegate, they phase to that phasegate. When the Marine uses the phasegate with the priority set, you can make it do two options:

1) Phasegate resends Marine back to that phasegate (my option because it increases skill factor of Commander micro/macro.)

2) Phasegate phases Marine to next most recently built phasegate in the list (or back to the first phasegate built if there is not a newer built phasegate). This would make it so a commander can basically force a loop between two phasegates with smart planning.

When the phasegate is deselected by double clicking, phasing resumes to the priority build list (like how NS1 does it currently).

Keeps it simpel for the Marines, doesn't give individual players the overpowerfull ability to always immideatly be at the most favorable location every single time (a smart Commander will keep the phasegate count low). And like I said, this is something that the Commander should be in control of since he is basically the director of TSA operations (when you think about it).

Oh and as for Commander griefing you with a messed up phasegate... utilize that wonderfull MUTINY button.

BadMouth · February 2009

I miss Zunni. And yeah, this topic has come up a multitude of times and it always got the thumbs up. Don't know why it was never implemented though.

ryknow69 · February 2009

If you dislike the point-click method which might slow things down, but would give good, simple UI, "Click here and you go there!" and "Press +Use twice to go to preselected Phase Gate!", Then go make yuor own idea and post it below.

True, the point and click is slowwer, Commanders should be given the ability to 'Label' PG's listed on the little toggle screen for Point-Click method, this would give more organization to pub games, and a player could probably Hot-Key PG's by which was built 1st, just add that to a tab in options.

Edit: Oh, and a nice addition is the Commander can select 1 PG and set it to Prime PG, what does that do?! Nothing but the fact when u open the PG selection map, a little red square box is at that PG, saying somthing along the lines of "GO HERE!!1!!1!!!111!!!!11!!" so players wont have to look at all the PG's names to find the "Hive PG" during a seige.

Sifor · February 2009

yeah i see some problem in every solution...

but i think i got something really good

its a <b>Force Phase System</b> : the comm select a PG and research the F.P.S. on it (like beacon on the ubs) cost ressources (5 or 10) and every phase for (15 or 30 sec.) are redirected to the F.P.S. phase gate and if you phase again on the F.P.S. you go back to the base.

The F.P.S. can help for a good rush, but you can't phase nowhere else than marine base and the F.P.S.

So the comm dont need to play with every priority and that can be balanced with ressources cost

any comment ? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

Yay !! good day every one !!!

ryknow69 · February 2009

I kinda like my idea as of it's ease of use, my idea mixed iwth the guy who gave teh mini-map idea=win

Sifor · February 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ryknow69 @ Feb 15 2009, 04:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700490"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I kinda like my idea as of it's ease of use, my idea mixed iwth the guy who gave teh mini-map idea=win</div>

yeah but i don't like the mini map idea, the comm command to phase for a rush and the player need to select each time where he phase !? nah... i don't like it...

I think its better to put it commander side.

And the priority gonna be lame to set up in play each time the comm want a rush somewhere... so i prefer my idea with the <b>**Force Phase System</b> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

No PG priority, No change for all players (only commander) and easy to balance with ressources cost

<i>** <b>Force Phase System</b> : the comm select a PG and research the F.P.S. on it (like beacon on the ubs) cost ressources (5 or 10) and all phase for (15 or 30 sec.) are redirected to the F.P.S. phase gate and if you phase again on the F.P.S. you go back to the base.

The F.P.S. can help for a good rush, but you can't phase nowhere else than marine base and the F.P.S.</i>

its what i think <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

ryknow69 · February 2009

You dont have to reselect the Hive PG if u selected it last time u went through.

All you do is, when the map opens from pressing +use, u press +use again to go to last used PG, which is the Hive PG, TA FREAKING DA! And it can work in reverse, last used PG from Hive is the Home PG, +use 2wice and.....YOUR BACK!

Sifor · February 2009

yeah its sounds good !

but i think we need to know if we want it commander side or players side...

but your idea look good ! and i vote yes for both of them !

ryknow69 · February 2009

The commander can put an 'Alert' on 1 PG, which highlights it in red on the PG Map, telling players, "I, the commander, want you to JUMP THERE NOW!!!!!!!" The player doesn't have to, but is advised to.

Fraxinus · February 2009

I like the idea of PG priority, but I don't know if I like the idea of a submenu for PGs. Another thing that I find annoying is on 32 player servers when the commander beacons and the whole team is at base trying to use the phase gate at once. For the first 5 or so tries you cant even use it and then you have to phase maybe one more time.

StixNStonz · February 2009

New idea!

What if PGs had a button. Comm clicks on the button, it becomes the Priority for 10 seconds. For those 10 seconds, you can ONLY phase to that pg.

Sure, there is the scenario where a marine wants to phase out during that time, but that would be a small disadvantage compared to a relatively easy and effective solution.

Frankly, a comm only needs 10 seconds of a pg being a priority. This way, he could beacon and set the priority, and it would be more than enough time to get everyone phasing through without hassle. Afterwards, it resets to the previous pattern.

I think that the BEST solution would be for the comm to have a GUI of the different PGs in a line, where he can just click and drag them to change their order. But that's serious programming and QA time, so this simple 10-second priority concept seems a reasonable, feasible, cheaper alternative.

Firewater · February 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fraxinus @ Feb 15 2009, 09:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700511"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I like the idea of PG priority, but I don't know if I like the idea of a submenu for PGs. Another thing that I find annoying is on 32 player servers when the commander beacons and the whole team is at base trying to use the phase gate at once. For the first 5 or so tries you cant even use it and then you have to phase maybe one more time.</div>

I disagree allowing that method of phase gate priority. If the commander beacons for a phase gate, he or she should take into account for using a phase gate for a beacon.

I would suggest since Distress Beacon will probably still be in the game mixed with squads, charge the commander a per player or per squad beacon. Also by giving the commander the option to only DB players waiting in the spawn queue, it would give the other players the option to hold the phase gate.

Offering the priority on the phase gate to allow the marines to just mericilessly phase through without penalty will seriously disrupt the balance in my opinion, especially since the aliens have no counterable technology to the distress beacon.

pSyk0mAn · February 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Feb 16 2009, 05:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700539"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>New idea!

What if PGs had a button. Comm clicks on the button, it becomes the Priority for 10 seconds. For those 10 seconds, you can ONLY phase to that pg.

Sure, there is the scenario where a marine wants to phase out during that time, but that would be a small disadvantage compared to a relatively easy and effective solution.

Frankly, a comm only needs 10 seconds of a pg being a priority. This way, he could beacon and set the priority, and it would be more than enough time to get everyone phasing through without hassle. Afterwards, it resets to the previous pattern.</div>
I love that idea.
Maybe make the button ( "emergency phase" ) at the pg cost 5 res or something.

As others already said, choosing pgs and similar stuff disrupts balance. It should still be a tradeoff that you need more time to get at a location, if you have more pgs and thus cover more parts of the map.
Just imagine aliens retreating wounded after attacking a location and the marine just instantly phases to a pg he likes to in order to finish that alien off. It's ridiculous.

Imho, screw all those ideas and just use the "emergency phase" idea from Stix.

Sifor · February 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sifor @ Feb 15 2009, 03:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700481"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>yeah i see some problem in every solution...

but i think i got something really good

its a <b>Force Phase System</b> : the comm select a PG and research the F.P.S. on it (like beacon on the ubs) cost ressources (5 or 10) and every phase for (15 or 30 sec.) are redirected to the F.P.S. phase gate and if you phase again on the F.P.S. you go back to the base.

The F.P.S. can help for a good rush, but you can't phase nowhere else than marine base and the F.P.S.

So the comm dont need to play with every priority and that can be balanced with ressources cost

any comment ? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

Yay !! good day every one !!!</div>

its exactly what im trying to explain... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> thx you <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />

Zek · February 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Radix @ Feb 8 2009, 11:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1699801"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>There are more complications with allowing people to pick where they go than there are when you let the comm do it. The worst thing that will happen if the commander is switching gates around is a few marines have to phase 1-2 times extra, once.

If you let players do it the gates won't ever be predictable.

EDIT: Didn't realize that you were suggesting a point and click interface. That seems overly complex to me - why make the marines click multiple times when they can just go where they need to?

You're screwing both pubbers and competitive players - on the one hand the pubber has no idea where he should go if he's new, and on the other you're taking a simple task and making it clunky to deal with for people who do know where to go. Plus there are balance issues with letting people go anywhere they want from anywhere they are.</div>
I didn't suggest point and click, I suggested using the number keys with the order being defined in a certain way. Newbies can take an extra second or two to figure out where they're going, or the comm can just say what number the phase is. Veterans wouldn't even have to look at the map, they could just press the number instantly for basically no delay. I think it's far less clunky than phasing into the wrong place, turning around and phasing again.

steppin'razor · February 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sifor @ Feb 16 2009, 06:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700481"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>yeah i see some problem in every solution...

but i think i got something really good

its a <b>Force Phase System</b> : the comm select a PG and research the F.P.S. on it (like beacon on the ubs) cost ressources (5 or 10) and every phase for (15 or 30 sec.) are redirected to the F.P.S. phase gate and if you phase again on the F.P.S. you go back to the base.

The F.P.S. can help for a good rush, but you can't phase nowhere else than marine base and the F.P.S.

So the comm dont need to play with every priority and that can be balanced with ressources cost

any comment ? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

Yay !! good day every one !!!</div>
I like that idea, it has a great positive, and even has a flaw (which is good)

While doing a rush, all other pgs are vunerable. Perhaps the obs/pg makes a distinctive noise when it becomes the F.P.S and alerts aliens, and they can make a decision to either: defend like hell or take the loss and take over another marine location while they can't phase there. Adds a nice little tactical decision for both sides.

StixNStonz · February 2009

Lol, your right Sifor, our ideas are very close to each other.

But I do see one very big difference (aside from the little differences of yours costing res).

You simply can't say that "...and if you phase again on the F.P.S. you go back to the base". The PG system has no idea which pg is the 'base pg'.

This is why I said in my version that its only for 10 seconds, and you can only phase to that PG. I probably should have given the details on what happens if you try to phase out during that time, which is nothing at all. The PG can have bright red lights on it or something so marines know they can't phase out. Like I said, this is a drawback to the system, but it is the only feasible way for a pg priority system to work (unless you go into the crazy UI where the comm can flip the links in the chain, but thats a LOT of work).

This is also why I said 10 seconds, not your 15-30 seconds. In NS, 10 seconds is a loooooong time. It might even be too long for this scenario. But it would definitely be enough time for the comm to beacon and have everyone run through; though a smarter comm would beacon first and then hit the priority.

spellman23 · February 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Feb 20 2009, 10:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701042"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>You simply can't say that "...and if you phase again on the F.P.S. you go back to the base". The PG system has no idea which pg is the 'base pg'.</div>

It's obviously the one whose entity anchor is the closest to the Command Chair. No way this could be problematic due to relocation or multiple CCs or anything.

Hm.... actually, if it's the closest to the currently active (i.e. commander is in) it might work. Then again, in a reloc, if the comm is still in MS this could be a problem.

Phase gate priority

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