How I Think Ns Could Become Better...

Stelonous · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">Maps, maps, and more maps.</div> That's right. What will help me keep interest is if there are more maps on the way. So you don't always go, "Oh, ns_caged, I already know where the marine spawn is!"

How I envision a new system for maps is this:

2 marine start points (randomly spawn, like like the aliens.)
1 more Hive spot (Obviously, there would be some balance issues to be worked out.)

What this would do is add that extra "random" spot in the map. Now the aliens must search out 2 spots for Marines, and the Marines have one more unknown Hive spot that must be checked. While this will make things difficult for Marines, alien abilities could simply take one more hive to get. *shrug* Thus, the aliens always have an out if they need it, and the marines could actually have 2 decent base points to build from.

My basic 2 cents... last night, there was only me (comm), a marine, and 3 aliens. The climatic ending came like this:

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'>

Now that's scary!

Rabid_Llama · November 2002

I think a straight four-hive map would be too easy for the aliens, but you have a good point. Maybe a system where maps have multiple (4? 5?) hive locations, but only three of them are open for any one game. The same with marine starts -- have two or three, only one of which is open. The hives and marine starts tend to be on the "edges" of the map anyway, so it seems plausible to add some extra ones. It wouldn't be that hard to have doors that stay shut for the duration of a game. I think it would take some coding on the NS team's part, but maybe it could be pulled off using only map entities right now.
The only problem here is maps would get pretty huge, and HL maps can only get so big before the engine gives out. I don't know if the NS team can do any more to help this than they already have.

BigD · November 2002

I really think that future maps could utilize a system like that. Random marines starts I think would REALLY add something to the variety.

FunkTheMonk · November 2002

The levels would have to be alot bigger tho

commBri · November 2002

You seen the size of some dod maps? They are huge!!!

HoMIciDaL_PuPPy · November 2002

i got an idea do it like a regular rts all random

like on eclipse the marines could possibly spawn in the refinery or feedwater or engine room! but instead of a hive they have a command center ya know? sounds very fun and not too hard but there could be a bug where both get same spot and that wouldnt be good

and you could turn the regular marine spawn into a..... hive!

so it would be balanced the aliens could get 3 hives just like a regular game

Rabid_Llama · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HoMIciDaL_PuPPy @ Nov 29 2002, 08:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>i got an idea do it like a regular rts all random

like on eclipse the marines could possibly spawn in the refinery or feedwater or engine room! but instead of a hive they have a command center ya know? sounds very fun and not too hard but there could be a bug where both get same spot and that wouldnt be good

and you could turn the regular marine spawn into a..... hive!

so it would be balanced the aliens could get 3 hives just like a regular game</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
The only problem I see with that would be the "creep" -- hive locations have to have that growth on them to look right, and a marine start shouldn't have it (it would look strange). There are ways around this, but it would increase framerates, and make it a little harder on mappers. (basically, an "illusionary" layer just barely above the actual metal floor/walls that would only show up when it was not the marine spawn

TychoCelchuuu · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([comm^Bri] @ Nov 29 2002, 05:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>You seen the size of some dod maps? They are huge!!!</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
As it is, the NS maps take up about the whole Hammer grid on average.

Stelonous · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TychoCelchuuu @ Nov 29 2002, 03:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([comm^Bri] @ Nov 29 2002, 05:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>You seen the size of some dod maps? They are huge!!!</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
As it is, the NS maps take up about the whole Hammer grid on average.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Yes but if you look at the mini map, there is quite a bit of wasted space. Now, I still think the maps are great, but they could be optimized to include even more stuff.

JCH321 · November 2002

Remember:
When you can't build out, build UP! (and down)

Rabid_Llama · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JCH321 @ Nov 29 2002, 09:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Remember:
When you can't build out, build UP! (and down)</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Well, it's not so much a physical size problem as an engine problem. Maps can only have so much data (texture data, "clip node" data, etc) before the engine breaks down and won't run it. The "build up" idea is interesting, but wouldn't really help out in this situation (not to mention the fact that you can't layer one floor over another because of the commander view). I'm not sure how close NS maps are to these limits, though.

Plaguebearer · November 2002

In terms of clipnodes, planes, etc, each NS map is at 99% of at least one of the map resources (excluding texture data). Most of them are so chock full of detail that you couldn't even add a single ladder without overflowing the limits.

So, while it would be nice to have maps so complex that you could have 4 hive rooms and two marine starts... such a map would be quite lacking in the rich detail that is the NS hallmark.

Tabris · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Plaguebearer @ Nov 29 2002, 10:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>In terms of clipnodes, planes, etc, each NS map is at 99% of at least one of the map resources (excluding texture data). Most of them are so chock full of detail that you couldn't even add a single ladder without overflowing the limits.

So, while it would be nice to have maps so complex that you could have 4 hive rooms and two marine starts... such a map would be quite lacking in the rich detail that is the NS hallmark.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
BRAVO... glad someone spoke up from the mappers.

Bluee · November 2002

But I still think Alien vs Alien 4-5 hive maps are possible. Cut back on the detail, we want gameplay. We're still playing Half-Life, so obviously we don't care THAT MUCH about graphics and oh-so-sexy ambient sprites.

Ganonn · November 2002

I'm of the frame of mind, if they could do it, they would've. Still can't wait for creative people to put out custom maps tho. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'>

FunkTheMonk · November 2002

There are a couple, havent actually played em but there are a couple

Plaguebearer · November 2002

Bluee- what I said has nothing to do with sprites. It's all about world geometry.

BigD · November 2002

An alternate marine spawn I could easily see being implemented if nothing else. It would have to be planned into the map from the start though and when I start into building my map next January (Depending if my class schedule isn't too hectic) I may try to create some sort of random spawn system for the marines... haven't looked into if it is possible yet, but I'ma gonna see if there isn't a way anyway before I start. That alone would keep things interesting. (Course then again... I may just make some kind of wacky map to test out all the stuff... I will make something...)

uranium_235 · November 2002

Well I wouldn't mind a reduction in detail for larger maps... after all, we don't have marine blood or gibs, which adds some more 'depth', so I think we could cut back on Ready Room detail and dangly wires. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Justin_Case · November 2002

Errrm I seem to remember that I made a post about 4 hives and was flamed so bad I almost ran to mommy to cry.
Ok it wasnt exactly like this one, but still.
In all fairness I want some -That is so stupid -Can someone ban this guy -All your ideas are lame and worthless
kind of comments

How I Think Ns Could Become Better...

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