<!--quoteo(post=1703396:date=Mar 24 2009, 03:27 PM:name=radforChrist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(radforChrist @ Mar 24 2009, 03:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703396"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does anyone remember <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=80722&hl=" target="_blank">tankefugl's fade ability</a> he coded and even showed? That's how blink should be ladies and gentlemen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Instead of having everyone installing all of the files and what not, would it be reasonable to ask someone to fraps a video of the blinking ability?
slayer20Killed a man once.Join Date: 2007-12-13Member: 63157Members, Reinforced - Shadow
I'm really curious to see how the fade will turn out. But if need be, and the fade blink doesn't work out, it can be changed to what the current fade is in NS.
<!--quoteo(post=1703427:date=Mar 24 2009, 09:05 PM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Mar 24 2009, 09:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703427"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Instead of having everyone installing all of the files and what not, would it be reasonable to ask someone to fraps a video of the blinking ability?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sadly, I no longer have the files, and the links are broken. I was hoping my reminder would make someone with the files come forward. Youtube and such finds nothing.
<!--quoteo(post=1703449:date=Mar 25 2009, 10:45 AM:name=darktimes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darktimes @ Mar 25 2009, 10:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703449"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the current fade in NS is a huge, armored skulk whit regen. nothing more and nothing special or unique.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Look deeper into the gameplay.
A lot of good skulks aren't good fades and the other way round. It takes a certain kind of mindset both to be good at and to enjoy the different gameplay flows and roles. Both are really enjoyable.
For example skulking takes some querilla attitude and you can be quite creative and expendable. You'll need some quick teamwork to get the skulkpack working. In 1 on 1 you're the underdog and most likely just stalling the progress of a marine is a victory. Fights involve mind games and escapes. Two movement speeds: Full speed and sneaking.
Fade on the other hand is the big role. The rest of the team depends on you. You'll need game sense to control the way marines are spreading out into the map. It's more important to stay alive than to frag a marine. Most fights that get stalled are bad for you, unless you're directly defending the 2nd hive. Fights involve a lot of decisions whether it's safe to pick off a marine and whether the risk pays off in some advantage later on. Constant forward movement while still trying to avoid any ambushers or marines trying to sneak by.
That's a heavy simplification, but they both seem quite unique to me already.
<!--quoteo(post=1703449:date=Mar 25 2009, 06:45 AM:name=darktimes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darktimes @ Mar 25 2009, 06:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703449"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the current fade in NS is a huge, armored skulk whit regen. nothing more and nothing special or unique.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The movement of a fade is completely different from that of a skulk... unless you mean walker fades...
What are you talking about?
Tactically, the skulk is an ambusher/scout. He dies in a couple of bullets. The fade is an assault class. Different again.
Personally since we haven't even seen any models or interactions/abilities for any of the alien castes I'm not sure why we are even trying to suggest abilities for the fade. All the focus in the devblog has been on marines, with a few updates on what alien models are being worked on in the twitter feed. Maybe if we have a better idea of what kind of revisions the other aliens have undergone maybe we can make a better educated assessment of what the fades role should be. <i>I.E.</i>, chamber types and bonuses, armor per caste, res model (example: if its easier to get res do we need to change the fade) et cetera.
I'm not trying to be critical its just that I would rather know the mechanics of the other kharaa castes are before we start poking and prodding at the warrior caste.
<!--quoteo(post=1703465:date=Mar 25 2009, 10:15 AM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(juice @ Mar 25 2009, 10:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703465"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The movement of a fade is completely different from that of a skulk... unless you mean walker fades...
What are you talking about?
Tactically, the skulk is an ambusher/scout. He dies in a couple of bullets. The fade is an assault class. Different again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He means that blink/meta/regen (all castes regen just slowly) doesn't make enough of a difference between the two castes.
He could have a close range lock down or disableing effect. The fade could blink in to an area with rines turrets and or seiges in it, use this effect then blink out. The effect could prevent the sieges from moving and fireing, screw up the turrets auto aim so they start firing in all directions (friendly fire on?) and possibly mess up rine motion tracking or any other complex tech theyve got. This would only be a short time effect, say 3 secs, enough to allow the rest of the alien force to assault.
In ns1 when the marines have tacken a position they can often be very difficult to dislodge once they have turrets and sieges in place, Inns2 the fade could act as a position breaker.
<!--quoteo(post=1703427:date=Mar 25 2009, 02:05 AM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Mar 25 2009, 02:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703427"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Instead of having everyone installing all of the files and what not, would it be reasonable to ask someone to fraps a video of the blinking ability?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1703455:date=Mar 25 2009, 12:26 PM:name=radforChrist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(radforChrist @ Mar 25 2009, 12:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703455"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sadly, I no longer have the files, and the links are broken. I was hoping my reminder would make someone with the files come forward. Youtube and such finds nothing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Basically you held down mouse2 (with crowbar equipped; it was a quick HL mod) to blink. First, your fov would rapidly distort (increase, but being HL it was more disorienting than helpful) Then after a second, you would enter the actual blink mode - unhittable, invisible, and flying quite fast in the direction you're aiming. After you let go the fov would equally rapidly go back to normal, and you'd be back to normal.
The unhittable, invisible, and flying quite fast part was the important part, mind. I didn't get to play it with anyone else so I'm not sure how it worked in practice. There were the rounds with a 'designated Fade', where one guy would only use crowbar+blink and everyone else could use anything except that, and those were apparently really tense.
<u>Gripe:</u> I agree with previous posts, it is pretty difficult to come up with ideas--at least, holistic (and therefore probably more inventive) ones--for a unit with very little information other than it's role.
We've been told very little in regards to the Kharaa. If I remember correctly, the Skulks are no longer Scouts, but instead the primary "Warriors" of battle. Gorges--while remaining builders--will likely have a larger role in combat than in base-building (due to the introduction of the Alien Comm). Now the fade will be a Surgical Striker.
As a modular concept, there are plenty of ideas/elements that define/constitute the archetypal "tactical assault unit", but without assuming too much from NS1, and knowing very little about the new Kharaa, it seems we are restricted to these archetypal, and possibly cliche'd, suggestions.
<u>Suggestions:</u> <b>Acid:</b> The Acid idea that Killrazy initiated and CanadianWolverine continued is the best suggestion I've seen, but a simple DoT ability will kill anything eventually, and that would seem to make the Fade less Surgical and more Spammical. The welder as a counter to this is a good direction. But what about non-structures? To a rine (GL or otherwise) this is still just a DoT, and will kill just about anything given adequate time.
Maybe the acid would only deteriorate armor. With the assumption that a structure only has armor (since structures aren't living they don't really have 'health' in the truest sense), buildings will be destroyed over time, and units will only lose their armor.
Additionally (possibly as an upgrade) the acid could also make a unit drop his currently equipped weapon. Justification: The acid burns! Hot potato! Oh but it cools down eventually, so pick it back up). The Welder would obviously have to be immune to this if it is to serve as a counter to this ability.
<b>Shadow Walk (Mobile Redemption)</b> The fade finds a good hiding spot and activates the ability, setting his 'Mark'. An immobile shadow copy of the fade (henceforth, 'Shell') is left, and the Fade (henceforth 'Shadow') continues on as normal. The Shadow then runs into a fortified enemy position, takes out an RT or GL (in whatever way he is equipped to do), and activates the ability again, 'Recalling' his body and control to the Shell (at the Mark). During this time, the Shell is defenseless, or very vulnerable; if the Shell is killed, the Shadow dies instantly. If the Shadow is killed, the Shell is damaged (downtime), and player control is returned to the Shell.
This way the Fade is capable of executing crippling 'hit & run' strikes while being both the 'light' unit a surgical striker should be <i>and</i> a 'not dead every five seconds' unit.
glow that stops everything and renders bots and sieges useless for 1 min.
something lame as devour.
blinking secondary jumps to the nearest marine no matter which direction you were facing before
something like parasite, you stick it to said GL gunner and then you can teleport freely to him and to your last position. no matter how thick the walls are.
I mentioned this at the postmortem, but here it is again:
A fade that can go through walls. Any wall that can be 'walked through' would have an aura, red or such. These would be thin entities placed my the mapper on both sides of the wall and linked to each other, forming a corridor between the two brushes (or, the wall itself could be made of a special brush entity).
Basically a fade would see this, walk up to it and press the 'slide' key (a name i'm just coming up with for now), which allows him to pass through these walls. This would be highly mapper dependent, of course. But it would allow a fade to Slide through a wall right into a squad of marines, take a few swipes, and slide out. Perhaps give the fade a slow HP drain during Slide Time. Think of how useful this ability would be in conjunction with Scent.
Stix: The essence of this has been mentioned once or twice in this thread, but I don't think anyone has painted as thorough a picture as you just did. This would definitely be a nice one to see.
I personally think that the Fade should be much weaker than it is now, but able to turn invisible and un-hittable for a very small amount of time as special ability. During that time, it can't attack.
<!--quoteo(post=1703634:date=Mar 27 2009, 01:50 PM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Mar 27 2009, 01:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703634"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A fade that can go through walls.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was thinking differently. While I dont think the fade should be able to travel through walls, what about glass? I mean, it is technically in line of site and if the maps were made well enough there would be certain areas of a map where fades could really dish out some pain to marines if the fade was skilled enough to use the windows/screens to their advantage, blinking in and out of the danger of bullets.
Although. there really wasnt many areas in NS where there was glass that seperated two areas. Also, how would you tackle maps with glass showing outside?
- If the Fade attack a marine, the marine will be slow down (like in left 4 dead if a zombie hits you) - The Fade can go through Dynamic Infestation Walls, if he move from one to other side of the wall you will see a decal on the entry and exit add or not: But the fade can't move for 2-5 seconds after he exit a wall, because he is totaly confused - acid rockets do 1% of view-obscure (like if you get hit by a boomer in left 4 dead, but not its not 100% obscure of your view) - if the fade heal himself, he scream (like predator) and you see blood decals on the ground for some 1 min or something, so marines can see where the fade heal himself - acid blood (i know not a new idea), but why not? it don't need to be do a lot of damage, just 1-3hp of damage. - the fade/lerk can grab a other alien (gorge or skulk) and carry that alien, in this time he can't attack, but with that he can e.g. the gorge faster to a rt. To prevent idiots, the Gorge can detach himself by pressing 'Use', after 2 times detach yourself, the alien can't pick up you anymore, except if you die and respawn, it will repeat.
gorge idea: - like a skunk the gorge can do smoke, if the marines touch it, they will cough (like in left 4 dead a killed smoker)
oh i get a idea for a lerk or other aliens of NS2: - sonar, if this alien use this weapon/ability, he see for 2 seconds the contours of (only moving?) marines through the wall (like in left 4 dead). If you hit this weapon/ability, you cant move for some seconds and you will see a sonar effect. sry for my bad english.
Price: I'm pretty sure I've seen this exact post in another suggestion thread, or in the Official Twitter thread. Would that be a bump or spam <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> ?
If you think of a group of marines moving along a tight corridor, as a fade ( The "Surgical Striker" ) you need a few things: Speed, and Power. The fade has to be quick enough to get in and out without getting annihalated. And have enough strength to deliver a powerful attack in a short amount of time. Then there has to be a limit, most likely in the amount of energy used, to keep the fade from zipping around constantly hitting marines.
Give the Fade just enough Energy to make short quick distances, and 2-3 swipes. Get in, hit the target, get out. Repeat until target dead.
As far as abilities goes. There will obviously be some melee attack, and a blink.
Melee is best kept simple. +Mouse1 = !melee.
However, the location of the hit should be an important part of the equation.
Blink in NS2 is very fun, but it looks well, very funny. Really all you need is a good application of visual effects. Make the area around the fade when blinked blurr ( Like air on assphalt on a hot day ). The marines could follow the blink trail if they're good, and when the fade emerges from the blurr, attack.
Visually it would look at though there was a cloud of hot air buzzing around the room, and when the Fade stopped blinking he would emerge from the cloud, strike, and then dissapear.
This gives marines something to track ( It would be near impossible to kill a good fade if there was no way to track him. )
The Fade would then have everything it needs to do the job. But, a few problems. It is hard to keep the pressure on, if you have to constantly go back to the hive to heal. ( Not sure what system is being put in to determine how to be a fade ) But, noone likes dieing as a Fade.
A Metabolize-like ability would be good, only make the fade unable to move, and make it take a decent chunk of time. That way you can't always have a constant pressure, but at least you can still be in the general area and give the marines something to be afraid of.
Last but not least. Acid rocket.
But, make it do 2 things. If hit in the legs, it glues the marine to the ground, or "webs" them, slowing them down, If it hits their Face, it blinds them. Very minimal damage, but the acid decays armor. Say 5 damage, 30 armor, depending on where you hit.
Not too different if you think about it, gameplay wise, drastically different.
Here's a scenario:
4 Marines walking down an open hallway, lets say heavily armored and they're heading for the hive.
If you're a Fade, you start stalking them, find out which one has the Grenade Launcher ( Take out him, and the chances are the Hive is staying up ).
You open up with a couple Acid Rockets, glueing the GL to the floor, blinding 2 others. Blink in Swipe the GL, Blink out. Get to a safe distance, launch a few more acid rockets in there, blink in take out the GL, and blink out.
That's my suggestion at least, althought I was wondering, it would be interesting how useful a flame thrower would be against a Fade.
<!--quoteo(post=1703498:date=Mar 25 2009, 02:06 PM:name=lazy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lazy @ Mar 25 2009, 02:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703498"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I found this old version (2004/09/11), if anyone is interested.
Screenshot compilations of the mod posted in the original thread: <img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads//post-51-1095739847.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Reading through the thread, and about the changing roles of various alien lifeforms from the original NS, particularly the skulk taking on a more direct attacking/aggressive role, led me to this.
Fade would be a lifeform that moves quickly (fast enough that it is able to outrun marines easily), the reason for this I will get to in a moment, with an unnatural look about it. I've been thinking about how to articulate this and the best I have come up with so far is a combination of wall crawlers (various resident evil games etc) and those contorted people in horror movies. You'd look at it and go 'is it meant to move like that? is it dying?'. It would be able to move along walls/ceilings, and would move on all fours in this state, with a focus on the hind legs... sort of like an athletic but horrible hunchback haha.
The blink ability I am suggesting works like this (assume that left click is primary attack, right click is blink) :
When you right click, you 'switch planes' - in a puff of smoke that is similar to Nightcrawler. A distinctive sound is made when this happens. If anyone has played Legacy of Kain, the spirit plane affect is what I'm going for here (link to video of what I mean <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXRlln7lH6Y" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXRlln7lH6Y</a> ). Not unlike the images posted above, light is distorted and edges blur, sound would also be muffled and distorted. It would be 'otherworldly', if that makes sense. The fade CAN move in this plane, to get that angle down a hallway etc. The fade is not accessible or visible to marines or other lifeforms. Marines and other lifeforms still in the plane of reality are seen as shadowy silhouettes (aliens silhouettes can have glowing eyes to distinguish friendlies?). In this state, you have a time limit, which can be governed by adrenaline if necessary, to find a point you wish to appear at and right click once more. By time limit i mean quite a frantic pace, 1-1.5 seconds are my initial thoughts. The fade should not be walking around indefinitely or using the plane as a time out. Alternatively right click could be held, but this might affect quick mouse movement. Basically you go where your mouse is pointed, and longer distances cost more in adrenaline but obviously take you further from danger. If adrenaline runs out, or the time limit does, the fade reappears where he is standing.
An example: Right click to switch 'planes', look down long hallway with mouse pointed at opposite end, right click again to appear there but take a fairly severe hit to adrenaline.
Primary attacks would be 1. Swipe with a held to charge capability to deal more damage and 2. The ability to grab a marine and fade with them (this could be activated by hive2 or similar, open to suggestion, may be too overpowering at hive1?).
This grabbing ability would see the fade rise onto its hind legs (as it is in NS1) and grab the marine (I imagine it with a kind of horrifying grin). So it could go something like, see group of marines, maneuver into position (ie a ledge above where the centre of the group is readily visible), pop into group of marines, grab one, pop out. While the fade has a marine it's rate of movement will be slowed (however still slightly quicker than regular marine movement) as it will only have hind legs available, and when a marine is held he is able to attack in the direction he is facing so placement and initial setup and planning is important. The fade simple left clicks again to release the marine, switch to swipe and beat the crap out of him in private/with some friends.
So in essence the fade would be quite different to the current lifeform. It would have enough health that one marine of equal tech would not be a challenge for a thought out or skilled attack, two marines would be pushing it and more than two would be suicide to take on together alone. However the focus would very much be on using the speed and maneuverability (from being able to crawl along walls and ceilings) to assess what is happening, pop in, cause some chaos or take out a critical marine, and pop back out. Again due to the speed and maneuverability, if the fade was to scuttle out and find itself in an 'oh ######' situation, it would be able to disappear as quickly as it was seen.
The adrenaline limitation is the primary method of regulation... there should be enough for say 2-3 'blinks' and an attack, either a couple swipes, a charged swipe and a regular one, or a grab (without an evolved upgrade). This would mean that players would be forced to think about things before placing themselves in the middle of a group of marines because if they get too enthusiastic about taking them on they will be unable to blink out and become fodder.
I think that's all I have to say... may edit in smaller details I've accidentally glossed over. I'll try to link to a youtube link of the spirit plane affect also.
It occurs to me, especially reading some of the more exotic ideas for how blink could work, that one of the most important things a fade is going to need is easy target identification. It's unlikely that the particular marine with the GL that you're trying to pick out of the group is going to be standing in one place, and keeping track of him is crucial.
Maybe give fades the ability to 'mark' a target for themselves in some fashion? It could be a sort of personal parasite that only they see. More obvious though, so there'd be no mistaking who they needed to kill.
Hmm, might need to have the ability to destroy weapons or something, to prevent somebody from just picking up the GL and (partly) defeating the point of the attack.
<!--quoteo(post=1703634:date=Mar 27 2009, 06:50 PM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StixNStonz @ Mar 27 2009, 06:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703634"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I mentioned this at the postmortem, but here it is again:
A fade that can go through walls. Any wall that can be 'walked through' would have an aura, red or such. These would be thin entities placed my the mapper on both sides of the wall and linked to each other, forming a corridor between the two brushes (or, the wall itself could be made of a special brush entity).
Basically a fade would see this, walk up to it and press the 'slide' key (a name i'm just coming up with for now), which allows him to pass through these walls. This would be highly mapper dependent, of course. But it would allow a fade to Slide through a wall right into a squad of marines, take a few swipes, and slide out. Perhaps give the fade a slow HP drain during Slide Time. Think of how useful this ability would be in conjunction with Scent.
Just an idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Althought this idea is really cool, it sort of defeats the purpose of the alien tunneling system in some ways. I mean, you are already given the advantage to travel the map pretty much anywhere (to assume) with the tunnelling system.
Honestly, I really enjoy the current fade. But for new comers to NS, it might turn them away from the game. Gamers, especially young gamers, like really cool animations and graphics, and whatnot. I never played 1.04 but the idea of a purple cloud of smoke is neat. It can make it difficult for the rines to see. If the rines are within the smoke, it should also be more difficult to hear each other over voice comm.
Thats just my 2 cents.
It's just how the blink should look and work is the most difficult part. Swipe should obviously be in. The idea of grabbing marines is cool, would love to see how a fade could just punish the hell out of a marine, and you hear screams down the hallway of your buddy being ripped to shreds.
But the grabbing should be very limited in terms of adrenaline.
you do have to look at the fact that marines need somwhat of a chance so i think that lowering the attack power of a fade a bit so marines dont get massacared from 1 fade i mean if 1 fade can take on a group like 5 marines then were does that leave the marines? dead just annoyingly dead and you have to look at it this way would you want to be the marine going up against a fade like that and or several fades like that even with hmgs and all the other upgrades several fades blinking like that around well i wouldnt want to be the marines in that game
NS has always reminded me of the film Aliens. many similar themes.
i think it might be fun gameplay wise to be able to stick oneself to a wall or ceiling (not walk on those surfaces) so as to drop down and abduct marines out of the middle/back of a squad.
admitidly not very plausable unless you take cloak, but very effective. also reinforces the 'they came from the walls' feeling
Personally, with the "dynamic lighting" that may be a part of the game, I think it would be cool and appropriate if the lights dim (or go completely dark in close proximity) near a Fade. Think about it: If a Fade is coming down a hallway (or blinking) and the lights are flickering and dimming and going completely dark, it would be:
1: completely atmospheric 2: help a Fade's teammates (in setting up an ambush) 3: scare and alert marines, but keep the confusion of a Fade attack
Also, in regards to Blink, I always imagined it to work like the current iteration, except the Fade would become a black cloud (that would be, in this case, complete darkness... like The Nightcrawler's *BAMF*) and when exiting Blink, it would take a quick moment for the Fade to solidify and he would "burst" out of the cloud, maybe with his eyes glowing bright red for a split second.
The cloud itself could take some damage and maybe work a little bit like quickly-disappearing umbra, or like an octopus ink of darkness.
Basically my idea revolves around the Fade being able to use darkness as his medium.
Comments
Instead of having everyone installing all of the files and what not, would it be reasonable to ask someone to fraps a video of the blinking ability?
Sadly, I no longer have the files, and the links are broken. I was hoping my reminder would make someone with the files come forward. Youtube and such finds nothing.
Look deeper into the gameplay.
A lot of good skulks aren't good fades and the other way round. It takes a certain kind of mindset both to be good at and to enjoy the different gameplay flows and roles. Both are really enjoyable.
For example skulking takes some querilla attitude and you can be quite creative and expendable. You'll need some quick teamwork to get the skulkpack working. In 1 on 1 you're the underdog and most likely just stalling the progress of a marine is a victory. Fights involve mind games and escapes. Two movement speeds: Full speed and sneaking.
Fade on the other hand is the big role. The rest of the team depends on you. You'll need game sense to control the way marines are spreading out into the map. It's more important to stay alive than to frag a marine. Most fights that get stalled are bad for you, unless you're directly defending the 2nd hive. Fights involve a lot of decisions whether it's safe to pick off a marine and whether the risk pays off in some advantage later on. Constant forward movement while still trying to avoid any ambushers or marines trying to sneak by.
That's a heavy simplification, but they both seem quite unique to me already.
The movement of a fade is completely different from that of a skulk... unless you mean walker fades...
What are you talking about?
Tactically, the skulk is an ambusher/scout. He dies in a couple of bullets. The fade is an assault class. Different again.
I'm not trying to be critical its just that I would rather know the mechanics of the other kharaa castes are before we start poking and prodding at the warrior caste.
<!--quoteo(post=1703465:date=Mar 25 2009, 10:15 AM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(juice @ Mar 25 2009, 10:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703465"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The movement of a fade is completely different from that of a skulk... unless you mean walker fades...
What are you talking about?
Tactically, the skulk is an ambusher/scout. He dies in a couple of bullets. The fade is an assault class. Different again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He means that blink/meta/regen (all castes regen just slowly) doesn't make enough of a difference between the two castes.
I think...
In ns1 when the marines have tacken a position they can often be very difficult to dislodge once they have turrets and sieges in place, Inns2 the fade could act as a position breaker.
<!--quoteo(post=1703455:date=Mar 25 2009, 12:26 PM:name=radforChrist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(radforChrist @ Mar 25 2009, 12:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703455"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sadly, I no longer have the files, and the links are broken. I was hoping my reminder would make someone with the files come forward. Youtube and such finds nothing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Basically you held down mouse2 (with crowbar equipped; it was a quick HL mod) to blink.
First, your fov would rapidly distort (increase, but being HL it was more disorienting than helpful)
Then after a second, you would enter the actual blink mode - unhittable, invisible, and flying quite fast in the direction you're aiming.
After you let go the fov would equally rapidly go back to normal, and you'd be back to normal.
The unhittable, invisible, and flying quite fast part was the important part, mind. I didn't get to play it with anyone else so I'm not sure how it worked in practice. There were the rounds with a 'designated Fade', where one guy would only use crowbar+blink and everyone else could use anything except that, and those were apparently really tense.
<a href="http://uploaded.to/?id=briask" target="_blank">http://uploaded.to/?id=briask</a>
I agree with previous posts, it is pretty difficult to come up with ideas--at least, holistic (and therefore probably more inventive) ones--for a unit with very little information other than it's role.
We've been told very little in regards to the Kharaa. If I remember correctly, the Skulks are no longer Scouts, but instead the primary "Warriors" of battle. Gorges--while remaining builders--will likely have a larger role in combat than in base-building (due to the introduction of the Alien Comm). Now the fade will be a Surgical Striker.
As a modular concept, there are plenty of ideas/elements that define/constitute the archetypal "tactical assault unit", but without assuming too much from NS1, and knowing very little about the new Kharaa, it seems we are restricted to these archetypal, and possibly cliche'd, suggestions.
<u>Suggestions:</u>
<b>Acid:</b>
The Acid idea that Killrazy initiated and CanadianWolverine continued is the best suggestion I've seen, but a simple DoT ability will kill anything eventually, and that would seem to make the Fade less Surgical and more Spammical. The welder as a counter to this is a good direction. But what about non-structures? To a rine (GL or otherwise) this is still just a DoT, and will kill just about anything given adequate time.
Maybe the acid would only deteriorate armor. With the assumption that a structure only has armor (since structures aren't living they don't really have 'health' in the truest sense), buildings will be destroyed over time, and units will only lose their armor.
Additionally (possibly as an upgrade) the acid could also make a unit drop his currently equipped weapon. Justification: The acid burns! Hot potato! Oh but it cools down eventually, so pick it back up). The Welder would obviously have to be immune to this if it is to serve as a counter to this ability.
<b>Shadow Walk (Mobile Redemption)</b>
The fade finds a good hiding spot and activates the ability, setting his 'Mark'. An immobile shadow copy of the fade (henceforth, 'Shell') is left, and the Fade (henceforth 'Shadow') continues on as normal. The Shadow then runs into a fortified enemy position, takes out an RT or GL (in whatever way he is equipped to do), and activates the ability again, 'Recalling' his body and control to the Shell (at the Mark).
During this time, the Shell is defenseless, or very vulnerable; if the Shell is killed, the Shadow dies instantly.
If the Shadow is killed, the Shell is damaged (downtime), and player control is returned to the Shell.
This way the Fade is capable of executing crippling 'hit & run' strikes while being both the 'light' unit a surgical striker should be <i>and</i> a 'not dead every five seconds' unit.
glow that stops everything and renders bots and sieges useless for 1 min.
something lame as devour.
blinking secondary jumps to the nearest marine no matter which direction you were facing before
something like parasite, you stick it to said GL gunner and then you can teleport freely to him and to your last position. no matter how thick the walls are.
A fade that can go through walls. Any wall that can be 'walked through' would have an aura, red or such. These would be thin entities placed my the mapper on both sides of the wall and linked to each other, forming a corridor between the two brushes (or, the wall itself could be made of a special brush entity).
Basically a fade would see this, walk up to it and press the 'slide' key (a name i'm just coming up with for now), which allows him to pass through these walls. This would be highly mapper dependent, of course. But it would allow a fade to Slide through a wall right into a squad of marines, take a few swipes, and slide out. Perhaps give the fade a slow HP drain during Slide Time. Think of how useful this ability would be in conjunction with Scent.
Just an idea.
I was thinking differently. While I dont think the fade should be able to travel through walls, what about glass? I mean, it is technically in line of site and if the maps were made well enough there would be certain areas of a map where fades could really dish out some pain to marines if the fade was skilled enough to use the windows/screens to their advantage, blinking in and out of the danger of bullets.
Although. there really wasnt many areas in NS where there was glass that seperated two areas. Also, how would you tackle maps with glass showing outside?
I dunno, just a suggestion.
(not all at one time, just ideas!!)
- If the Fade attack a marine, the marine will be slow down (like in left 4 dead if a zombie hits you)
- The Fade can go through Dynamic Infestation Walls, if he move from one to other side of the wall you will see a decal on the entry and exit
add or not: But the fade can't move for 2-5 seconds after he exit a wall, because he is totaly confused
- acid rockets do 1% of view-obscure (like if you get hit by a boomer in left 4 dead, but not its not 100% obscure of your view)
- if the fade heal himself, he scream (like predator) and you see blood decals on the ground for some 1 min or something, so marines can see where the fade heal himself
- acid blood (i know not a new idea), but why not? it don't need to be do a lot of damage, just 1-3hp of damage.
- the fade/lerk can grab a other alien (gorge or skulk) and carry that alien, in this time he can't attack, but with that he can e.g. the gorge faster to a rt.
To prevent idiots, the Gorge can detach himself by pressing 'Use', after 2 times detach yourself, the alien can't pick up you anymore, except if you die and respawn, it will repeat.
gorge idea:
- like a skunk the gorge can do smoke, if the marines touch it, they will cough (like in left 4 dead a killed smoker)
oh i get a idea for a lerk or other aliens of NS2:
- sonar, if this alien use this weapon/ability, he see for 2 seconds the contours of (only moving?) marines through the wall (like in left 4 dead).
If you hit this weapon/ability, you cant move for some seconds and you will see a sonar effect.
sry for my bad english.
ok later i will add more.
Give the Fade just enough Energy to make short quick distances, and 2-3 swipes. Get in, hit the target, get out. Repeat until target dead.
As far as abilities goes. There will obviously be some melee attack, and a blink.
Melee is best kept simple. +Mouse1 = !melee.
However, the location of the hit should be an important part of the equation.
Blink in NS2 is very fun, but it looks well, very funny. Really all you need is a good application of visual effects. Make the area around the fade when blinked blurr ( Like air on assphalt on a hot day ). The marines could follow the blink trail if they're good, and when the fade emerges from the blurr, attack.
Visually it would look at though there was a cloud of hot air buzzing around the room, and when the Fade stopped blinking he would emerge from the cloud, strike, and then dissapear.
This gives marines something to track ( It would be near impossible to kill a good fade if there was no way to track him. )
The Fade would then have everything it needs to do the job. But, a few problems. It is hard to keep the pressure on, if you have to constantly go back to the hive to heal. ( Not sure what system is being put in to determine how to be a fade ) But, noone likes dieing as a Fade.
A Metabolize-like ability would be good, only make the fade unable to move, and make it take a decent chunk of time. That way you can't always have a constant pressure, but at least you can still be in the general area and give the marines something to be afraid of.
Last but not least. Acid rocket.
But, make it do 2 things. If hit in the legs, it glues the marine to the ground, or "webs" them, slowing them down, If it hits their Face, it blinds them. Very minimal damage, but the acid decays armor. Say 5 damage, 30 armor, depending on where you hit.
Not too different if you think about it, gameplay wise, drastically different.
Here's a scenario:
4 Marines walking down an open hallway, lets say heavily armored and they're heading for the hive.
If you're a Fade, you start stalking them, find out which one has the Grenade Launcher ( Take out him, and the chances are the Hive is staying up ).
You open up with a couple Acid Rockets, glueing the GL to the floor, blinding 2 others. Blink in Swipe the GL, Blink out. Get to a safe distance, launch a few more acid rockets in there, blink in take out the GL, and blink out.
That's my suggestion at least, althought I was wondering, it would be interesting how useful a flame thrower would be against a Fade.
<a href="http://uploaded.to/?id=briask" target="_blank">http://uploaded.to/?id=briask</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Screenshot compilations of the mod posted in the original thread:
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads//post-51-1095739847.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads//post-51-1095740897.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Reading through the thread, and about the changing roles of various alien lifeforms from the original NS, particularly the skulk taking on a more direct attacking/aggressive role, led me to this.
Fade would be a lifeform that moves quickly (fast enough that it is able to outrun marines easily), the reason for this I will get to in a moment, with an unnatural look about it. I've been thinking about how to articulate this and the best I have come up with so far is a combination of wall crawlers (various resident evil games etc) and those contorted people in horror movies. You'd look at it and go 'is it meant to move like that? is it dying?'. It would be able to move along walls/ceilings, and would move on all fours in this state, with a focus on the hind legs... sort of like an athletic but horrible hunchback haha.
The blink ability I am suggesting works like this (assume that left click is primary attack, right click is blink) :
When you right click, you 'switch planes' - in a puff of smoke that is similar to Nightcrawler. A distinctive sound is made when this happens. If anyone has played Legacy of Kain, the spirit plane affect is what I'm going for here (link to video of what I mean <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXRlln7lH6Y" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXRlln7lH6Y</a> ). Not unlike the images posted above, light is distorted and edges blur, sound would also be muffled and distorted. It would be 'otherworldly', if that makes sense. The fade CAN move in this plane, to get that angle down a hallway etc. The fade is not accessible or visible to marines or other lifeforms. Marines and other lifeforms still in the plane of reality are seen as shadowy silhouettes (aliens silhouettes can have glowing eyes to distinguish friendlies?). In this state, you have a time limit, which can be governed by adrenaline if necessary, to find a point you wish to appear at and right click once more. By time limit i mean quite a frantic pace, 1-1.5 seconds are my initial thoughts. The fade should not be walking around indefinitely or using the plane as a time out. Alternatively right click could be held, but this might affect quick mouse movement. Basically you go where your mouse is pointed, and longer distances cost more in adrenaline but obviously take you further from danger. If adrenaline runs out, or the time limit does, the fade reappears where he is standing.
An example: Right click to switch 'planes', look down long hallway with mouse pointed at opposite end, right click again to appear there but take a fairly severe hit to adrenaline.
Primary attacks would be 1. Swipe with a held to charge capability to deal more damage and 2. The ability to grab a marine and fade with them (this could be activated by hive2 or similar, open to suggestion, may be too overpowering at hive1?).
This grabbing ability would see the fade rise onto its hind legs (as it is in NS1) and grab the marine (I imagine it with a kind of horrifying grin). So it could go something like, see group of marines, maneuver into position (ie a ledge above where the centre of the group is readily visible), pop into group of marines, grab one, pop out. While the fade has a marine it's rate of movement will be slowed (however still slightly quicker than regular marine movement) as it will only have hind legs available, and when a marine is held he is able to attack in the direction he is facing so placement and initial setup and planning is important. The fade simple left clicks again to release the marine, switch to swipe and beat the crap out of him in private/with some friends.
So in essence the fade would be quite different to the current lifeform. It would have enough health that one marine of equal tech would not be a challenge for a thought out or skilled attack, two marines would be pushing it and more than two would be suicide to take on together alone. However the focus would very much be on using the speed and maneuverability (from being able to crawl along walls and ceilings) to assess what is happening, pop in, cause some chaos or take out a critical marine, and pop back out. Again due to the speed and maneuverability, if the fade was to scuttle out and find itself in an 'oh ######' situation, it would be able to disappear as quickly as it was seen.
The adrenaline limitation is the primary method of regulation... there should be enough for say 2-3 'blinks' and an attack, either a couple swipes, a charged swipe and a regular one, or a grab (without an evolved upgrade). This would mean that players would be forced to think about things before placing themselves in the middle of a group of marines because if they get too enthusiastic about taking them on they will be unable to blink out and become fodder.
I think that's all I have to say... may edit in smaller details I've accidentally glossed over. I'll try to link to a youtube link of the spirit plane affect also.
Maybe give fades the ability to 'mark' a target for themselves in some fashion? It could be a sort of personal parasite that only they see. More obvious though, so there'd be no mistaking who they needed to kill.
Hmm, might need to have the ability to destroy weapons or something, to prevent somebody from just picking up the GL and (partly) defeating the point of the attack.
A fade that can go through walls. Any wall that can be 'walked through' would have an aura, red or such. These would be thin entities placed my the mapper on both sides of the wall and linked to each other, forming a corridor between the two brushes (or, the wall itself could be made of a special brush entity).
Basically a fade would see this, walk up to it and press the 'slide' key (a name i'm just coming up with for now), which allows him to pass through these walls. This would be highly mapper dependent, of course. But it would allow a fade to Slide through a wall right into a squad of marines, take a few swipes, and slide out. Perhaps give the fade a slow HP drain during Slide Time. Think of how useful this ability would be in conjunction with Scent.
Just an idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Althought this idea is really cool, it sort of defeats the purpose of the alien tunneling system in some ways. I mean, you are already given the advantage to travel the map pretty much anywhere (to assume) with the tunnelling system.
Honestly, I really enjoy the current fade. But for new comers to NS, it might turn them away from the game. Gamers, especially young gamers, like really cool animations and graphics, and whatnot. I never played 1.04 but the idea of a purple cloud of smoke is neat. It can make it difficult for the rines to see. If the rines are within the smoke, it should also be more difficult to hear each other over voice comm.
Thats just my 2 cents.
It's just how the blink should look and work is the most difficult part. Swipe should obviously be in. The idea of grabbing marines is cool, would love to see how a fade could just punish the hell out of a marine, and you hear screams down the hallway of your buddy being ripped to shreds.
But the grabbing should be very limited in terms of adrenaline.
i think it might be fun gameplay wise to be able to stick oneself to a wall or ceiling (not walk on those surfaces) so as to drop down and abduct marines out of the middle/back of a squad.
admitidly not very plausable unless you take cloak, but very effective. also reinforces the 'they came from the walls' feeling
1: completely atmospheric
2: help a Fade's teammates (in setting up an ambush)
3: scare and alert marines, but keep the confusion of a Fade attack
Also, in regards to Blink, I always imagined it to work like the current iteration, except the Fade would become a black cloud (that would be, in this case, complete darkness... like The Nightcrawler's *BAMF*) and when exiting Blink, it would take a quick moment for the Fade to solidify and he would "burst" out of the cloud, maybe with his eyes glowing bright red for a split second.
The cloud itself could take some damage and maybe work a little bit like quickly-disappearing umbra, or like an octopus ink of darkness.
Basically my idea revolves around the Fade being able to use darkness as his medium.