haha, well I guess I couldn't say goodbye to S&I after all these years. I'm sort of in the dark about NS2 as I stopped playing about 3 years ago. However I was reading through one of the interviews and it was said that the emphasis of the game is shifted much more onto FPS than RTS. At the same time, it was mentioned that dynamic infestation made computers shut down. Unfortunately I don't think there is a single place to keep track of the NS2 changelog, but those 2 things made me immediately presume that NS2's commander mode was being revamped to be more decentralized. By that I mean, what I momentarily envisioned was computer consoles around the map that have localized control over nearby rooms. So marines would go to a certain room and any marine could log in to a computer and use it to drop certain necessities. Thus, the main commander doesn't have to deal with little stuff like medpacks / ammo and can focus on larger strategy, while the marines on the ground have more direct control over the dispensing of stuff like that. I'm not really one to talk about commanding because I NEVER played commander. Someone early in this thread identified my fear - the requirement that you be on top of your ###### immediately when the game starts. Where people will be like "gg" if you drop the wrong building first, etc. Maybe finding out a way to slow down the beginning part of the game (which was usually the most fun for me) would help protect against the game being decided within the first 5 minutes.
My apologies if any of this stuff has already been suggested or discussed as I haven't read most of the thread. Be warned this is kind of long and wordy.
I've commanded on and off for years, but most of it was done in the last year or two so most of my development and experience as a commander has been during version 3 (although certainly not all). I will say commanding in NS has been one of the most unique, frustrating, and satisfying experiences of any game. It's one of the things that makes me love it.
Some thoughts on alien commander: Having an alien commander for NS2 concerns me a bit. It doesn't just make the teams more in common, but it changes the social dynamic of things. In NS1 there is plenty of 'always blame the commander' mentality. The commander on the marine team plays a pivotal role in the success or failure of the marine team. With the alien team though everyone is in a way equal, no one really has more or less responsibility than the others. Everyone takes on equally important roles based around the same functionality. Anyone can choose to go to any particular lifeform based on what they feel the team needs, what they are good at, or for whatever reasons they may have and they do their bit with whatever lifeform it may be. It forces a different kind of teamwork where there isn't one person you can point to and say 'you're in charge', they have to be recognized by the team and people do as they do. It's like a test in non-hierarchy order and goes in well with the way aliens work. I think adding an alien commander, regardless of what they actually do, drastically changes the dynamic in an unfavorable way.
I'm not a natural commander of people so learning to do it and do it well enough to win a decent amount of the time took a fair amount of playing, in and out of the chair. One thing of note is also that the more people trust, respect, and like you as a commander the more they will follow your orders so in that respect it gets easier to command. Also having to deal with a lot of ###### can be frustrating to a newer commander, but once you get better and prove yourself as a commander people won't ###### as much and when they do you can more easily counter their arguments and people jumping on the ###### at the commander wagon. I will list various ideas, experiences, and such with commanding that I've observed over time. One important point I will make is that commanding isn't for everyone so it shouldn't be designed to accommodate everyone. Although I do think the controls when you first hop in the chair should be different than the controls you use as you become an experienced commander. Certain things should be simplified for first timers that advanced users can change for increased functionality. I will detail some of these ideas.
Taking on the commander role requires you to take on a fair amount of responsibility for the team and to be the primary strategist for the team so for these reasons alone many people will avoid the chair. I don't see a problem with that.
Ideas: Scanning - I think by default there should be a scan key and button that can be used to scan an area with a little indicator as to how much juice you've effectively got. This will let you know when you can scan with any observatory and will automatically pick one for you to use. This way you can quickly and easily scan without having to first locate an observatory and you don't have to check around to see how much each one has. That is the novice version. The advanced version should show you more precisely how much each one has and give you the ability to pick specifically which one you will use for each scan so that you can use one you are about to lose/recycle over another if the situation demands it.
Upgrades - If not always visible there should be a simple way to pop-out to see which upgrades are going and their current progress with a little bar or possibly a little timer over the symbol so you know how long you have. There should also be a simple way to start a new upgrade without locating the structure. If there are more than one it will either just give priority to the first one built or use some other method to automatically assign research to a specific arms lab. For advanced users they will have the ability to pick specifically which one will do the upgrading.
The buttons at the bottom of screen - for any decent commander they always use the shortcut keys to use these functions and have no need to click on these buttons so they should be notably smaller in advanced mode as simply a means of letting you know where in the menu you are.
Marine symbols on side or bottom of screen - A symbol list of all players. On one side of the symbol it can have a thick border color if they're part of a squadron and group them together when they are. This border will only go halfway around the symbol as the other half can be a color indicator to give you an idea of how far away the person is with like a bright green if the person is within your screen (one of the people you're actively overlooking right then) or red if they're far away on the map. That would tell you quickly which people you're overlooking so you can quickly select a specific one or maybe double-click to select all the visible marines to give them a new order. Also if you want your entire team in a specific area and you're overlooking it and then you see red up on the side of one or two people's image you can quickly identify that people aren't where they are supposed to be and select and issue them a new order. If there's enough room there should be a few symbols that appear over the corners of their pictures. One for med request, one for order request, one for ammo request, and one for order request - rt. Order request - rt - When someone requests an order when standing right next to an rt it will tell you someone is waiting for an rt, not a general order (with marines possibly having a way to choose either request), a symbol will appear on them showing that they've requested an rt as well as putting symbols on the map/players for ones that have requested things so on the large overview you can see what was requested where. You could make it so clicking on the person brings you to them immediately. Perhaps (and make this optional) have it so clicking on the little health/ammo/rt symbol will automatically distribute one if you have the resources. This symbol could also have a different little picture based on what equipment you have, like if you have a heavy or jetpack it could show it. If there was room maybe even show if they have an extra weapon/welder although that may make it too cluttered. Although that could just be a picture change so it would take up the same amount of space for the little picture regardless.
Three drop options to consider, one or two which could be an advanced feature. You should consider a way to drop directly on someone ammo or meds instead of having to aim at them. This could be the newbie way to do things whereby you can only drop meds/ammo directly on people. For advanced users they can have the additional option of free-dropping ammo/meds so anyone can pick them up in an area as needed instead of having to give them to specific players. The specific player option would also help alleviate any problems where it's hard to drop it on someone as you simply need to click on their symbol or click near them and have it given to the closest person. Maybe press an alternate button that is by default turned off for advanced users to drop freely. The third option to consider is a way to allow automatic dropping of things upon request. As a commander you could turn this option on/off to automatically give ammo or meds out when requested and there would be a couple advanced options like restrict by player (so someone has to be set by commander to automatically receive stuff, this could carry over between games) and a way to limit how much someone gets within a time period or put a minimum amount of res to do it. So some commanders may give out meds/ammo normally but say if they have 40+ res allow it to be done automatically so if they have plenty of res and don't want to waste their time on it, it's done automatically. What to have as the defaults would require testing to see what works for newbie commanders as experienced commanders would have a pretty good idea of how they want things and would go in and set them up before hopping in the chair.
A feedback system - Give a commander a way to rate reward or punish people who are good or bad at following orders or just executing them in general. This taking a peak at the player list and/or somewhere else you can quickly identify people you can count on and which you can't after you've commanded enough to build up reliable ratings so that as you become a more experienced commander you can tell more who is going to work for or against you. That would help you decide who to give certain orders to and who to avoid giving orders to. Helping you to avoid telling someone specific to do something that needs to be done and then having it not get done. It could also be used as a feedback system for marines so they know that their efforts to do as they're told are recognized.
Chair jacking - While in larger games this isn't as much as an issue as you don't get out of the chair as much, in smaller games it's more of an issue as you need to hop out to help shoot something or build something or if you're relocating you need to switch chairs. Someone hopping in and doing something you didn't want can be very annoying and destructive to the round and they may even refuse to get out. I've even had an instance where someone carelessly joined a game and saw the chair empty and assumed there was no commander when I'd just hopped out to do something shortly and then I had to deal with the idiot when that could have been easily prevented as if no one had gotten in the chair yet no one would have command control and when you join you can see who has command control regardless of whether or not they're in the chair. What can be done here is once someone gets in the command chair they have command control. So if they hop out of the chair (not ejected out) they maintain control. No one else can hop in the chair unless the commander either relinquishes command control or gives them the authority to get in. If the commander lets someone else get in while he maintains command control they can do pretty much everything he can, but he's still considered in charge of the team and can single-handedly eject the person if they aren't doing as he says. Like if he hops out of the chair and lets someone else hop in the new one for a relocate he can give them authority to hop in so they can recycle the first one and then if they don't get out right away he can eject them. That would also automatically remove their privilege to get in the chair from that commander's list and give them a down mark on that person's rating system. For advanced users you could even set up a few specific types of command authority so when you have command control and you let someone hop in the chair they can be restricted in specific ways with what they can do so they don't accidentally mess anything up.
In the heat of battle you can get pretty busy and it's easy to lose sight of specific things. Another method of feedback to give a special warning when like the command chair is under attack and it's your only one or an upgrading building is under attack or a specific structure (possibly configurable for advanced users) so you have more useful audio/visual feedback of the status of things. Perhaps a pop-out of some important structures to see their health %. An rt or turret or such under attack may be of little to no consequence and rings to you as 'structure under attack' the same as all other structures like the command chair, advanced armory, protolab, and such. I know as a commander it's your job to keep an eye on things, but anything to make it easier to get more prioritized feedback could be useful.
I don't know how weapon distribution is working in NS2, but if it's up to the commander a way to drop to specific players or bring up a little menu that gives a specific player a little res to get the weapon at the armory or something so you can avoid giving things to people who take them and jump in a pit repeatedly. As a commander you can still drop things more freely if you don't want to over-pamper specific people at the expense of the fun for the rest of the team who isn't getting much while maintaining the ability to give stuff to your best people so that you can increase your odds of victory.
Waypoints - Some way to more easily give multiple-point waypoints to direct people places by a specific path instead of having to issue a ton of orders as they move. Some of the problems people have here is simply due to how well or poorly a team listens and responds to their commander and that aspect isn't going anyway. But a way to issue orders more precisely. A way to manage waypoints already given better like when a waypoint is given it can start out a specific color for a player and it can change color as a sort of order degradation so you can tell if the order has been there for a while and give players a way to remove their waypoints from their screen. Also give the commander to remove waypoints easily for a specific player, for a squadron, or for the entire team. And if there is room somewhere some sort of indicator as to who has orders and who does so you can locate people who don't have orders easily and give them new orders or people who have had the same order for a while so you can remove the order or re-emphasize it to the player so they know they should keep guarding a point for example.
A way to prioritize an area. Select an area either by boxing off an area on the map with the control or perhaps some map built in way to selection areas. What this would do is say to the team 'this area is important'. People can see if they're in an important area or not or pull up the map and see what areas the commander wants priority on. This would be an advanced feature. And could also include putting a 'ninja' symbol on the map if the commander was looking for someone to ninja to a specific area. That way if I pop into a game I or wasn't paying attention or whatever or haven't been given an order specifically I can pull up the map and see where the commander wants people or if he's looking for someone to sneak to a specific area to build a phase gate. Maybe even give an advanced feature to give players a specific function. IE - designate someone as defense, offense, or ninja. That way you can see a little symbol of what in general the commander wants you to do, defend some/any spot, push forward on the enemy, or go alone to sneak a gate up. As a marine you could also pop up your map and see a little symbol on people as to their designation. The commander could see this too so if he designated 3 people as defenders and 7 as attackers on a top view he wouldn't easily know who is who right away, but with the symbols present from when he first designated people he could see a defender symbol in the middle of his assault team and know that he needs to redesignate someone or if they're breaking orders. All these things need to be quickly assignable and removable as to not cause problems and since this is an advanced feature a new commander wouldn't need to concern themself with these extra options that allow advanced commanders who have the ability to do more things at once to do so or find out which means of organization and way of giving orders and priorities to the team works best for them. This could also be used to prioritize order of rt acquisition so you can look on the map and see what rt's the commander wants and go to whichever has the highest priority that isn't capped. Or give the ability for the commander to set 'restricted' zones for areas the commander wants you to specifically avoid. And on the commander's display it could alert you in some way if someone is going to areas you don't want anyone going. Feeding the aliens res or just being useless by going somewhere you're guaranteed to get nothing done. In the pictures of the marine for the game there is a little heads up display so perhaps for standard marines a way to turn on/off easily (kind of like the map) a visual display that would in 3d show restricted areas, areas of high importance, and show waypoint like things towards all the areas where things are desired like rts and then you can put it right back off so it doesn't get in your way of seeing aliens.
Something like that could also be used to restrict mine placement. Say you give out a pack of mines and want them to go to a specific area like on a phase gate, someone can grab them and put them where-ever. Maybe it's more fun and better to leave it that way, but perhaps consider allowing the commander to restrict placement of mines to an area. This would also require a good feedback system to let a marine know why they can't place them anywhere and where they can place them. Although I don't know how much that function would be used if you could specify who got them you'd not bother to restrict where they went so much to avoid them being dropped and unused because the person didn't make it and couldn't use them anywhere else. Maybe simply saying where you want mines and not hard restricting to the area so people can still drop them wherever, but they can see on the map spots where mines are desired by the commander and where they are already. So if there are a couple spots that the commander wants mines and he drops a couple packs and someone runs off and drops them at one of the spots you can see which spot still needs mines. (In NS1 if the mines were placed in a certain way on the phase gate you couldn't see them).
A way to issue specific waypoint orders. For example with a single click you could tell someone to go to point A. With a double click if it's right next to a weld-point it automatically gives them the order to go weld the point and gives the commander a little symbol on the side for the order so he knows if the order hasn't been executed (still unwelded - doesn't matter who ends up doing it). Also could be for like a resource tower, if you double click by a resource tower it can issue the waypoint order and as soon as they arrive at the point it can either automatically drop it for that player or automatically issue the request rt command letting you know they're in position to receive it. Or anytime you want to be notified as soon as someone reaches a point so you can then attend to whatever you wanted to do there.
Buildable area overlay: This would be a simple on/off display that would quickly cover/uncover the map in a mask that would show where you could and couldn't build as a commander. Sometimes knowing how much space you have and which areas you can and can't build can be useful. Maybe this isn't needed though. One thing I do hate is when I know there is room for something and I have to keep moving my mouse around by minute amounts to find the little build hole to fit that last structure in. A way to snap to the closest buildable area could be useful. So if you're over a buildable area it moves normally (and it doesn't force your mouse anywhere regardless), but if you're over an unbuildable area it will move/display the structure to the nearest spot where it can be built. This would make it simple to build radially from a certain spot too. Drop a turret, then just put your mouse over the top side of that one within the restricted zone and it would line up another one as close as possible at that angle to the first.
Maybe even an advanced function that allows people to say select a turret to build, drag a rectangle and it would maximize the amount of turrets that can fit in that area or specify how many you want and it would evenly space them for you. This would have to be tested to see if it would work and be useful. If you used the option you'd draw the rectangle and then at the top/bottom or whatever it would show a slider where you'd specify the number of turrets you want in the area and it would show the cost and visualize the spread and then you'd click okay and it'd place them all for you and deduct the cost. So for example you could drag a thin rectangle to quickly and easily make a line of evenly space turrets with maybe even a little click on the edges to start lining them up from a specific side/corner or center them. So in game you'd select turret build, hit the rectangle key, drag it real quick, type/scroll in the number of turrets and quickly have a nice line of them. Or perhaps even work like a wall function in some games, click and drag in a line and it places one at the starting point and as you drag the line out it adds another turret to the line as they fit, then release and it's done.
Auto-rebuild: A way to define a structure as auto-rebuild when a marine is nearby. A structure specified as such, when destroyed, like an rt, would auto-redrop in the same spot and optionally issue a build order to the nearest marine to build it when someone was nearby the spot. So you could put it on an rt for example, it gets taken down. Then whenever a marine goes there to rebuild it they're automatically given another and it would let you know when this happens. You could also have the option of just a single redrop or multiple redrops. May require some testing for when exactly to drop and how to handle it being ghosted or to avoid dropping it if there are known aliens within a certain distance or stuff like that so lots of resources aren't wasted by an alien ghosting it repeatedly or something while a marine is nearby.
One problem that I've had sometimes as a commander and as a standard marine is not being able to tell whether or not a structure on the minimap was built. Sometimes you'd place an item or see it placed on the map, but then you'd not know if it was built or unbuilt without going to it. This sometimes leads to things sitting unbuilt for a while. Some way for all marines to better tell what is built and unbuilt on the minimap would be useful.
Also in line with this is a simple way to visually tell if something like a turret factory or armory or whatever is upgraded or not without having to click on it. This was also slightly obscure from standard playing as if you look at an armory you can't tell if it's upgraded or not, but if you're like me you left your help thing or whatever on that would bring up the pop-up to show you whether it's an advanced armory or not so you don't bum-rush the wrong one. Information shouldn't be hidden like that as it gives an advantage to someone willing to have all the extra help information on their screen they otherwise don't want or need.
I think the primary challenge in this is not keeping the advanced functions separate from the beginner ones so much, but in figuring out how to adequately display the information and deal with the controls that execute the functions without being too cumbersome or cluttering the screen too much and making it so it isn't too easy to accidentally perform a lot of the wrong functions. Using the keyboard keys to go through menus and to easily activate various things I think will be fundamental for the end result to work well for advanced users. A way to quickly and efficiently scroll through options so that all these features fit into one interface. Advanced users should be able to customize the organization/layout of things too. Like on the interface of NS1 the advanced user would be able to move HA out of the weapon menu tab to one of the others and like move med/ammo to the weapon tab if they wanted. But that general idea of having tab subsets can be used for all sorts of functions not just standard drops, but orders and such as well.
Thanks for reading if you made it all the way through that. If I have anymore ideas or any of my current ones require clarification (although you can tell I tried to avoid that need) I can do so. Or if you think one of my ideas sucks let me know why.
<!--quoteo(post=1697619:date=Jan 13 2009, 07:19 PM:name=Doushibag)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Doushibag @ Jan 13 2009, 07:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697619"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also in line with this is a simple way to visually tell if something like a turret factory or armory or whatever is upgraded or not without having to click on it. This was also slightly obscure from standard playing as if you look at an armory you can't tell if it's upgraded or not, but if you're like me you left your help thing or whatever on that would bring up the pop-up to show you whether it's an advanced armory or not so you don't bum-rush the wrong one. Information shouldn't be hidden like that as it gives an advantage to someone willing to have all the extra help information on their screen they otherwise don't want or need.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually you can tell whether the armory is upgraded by looking at certain blocks. AA has some extra circuit covered blocks near the floor. I've seen some competetive players going for unupgraded armorys at very unsuitable moments though, so it's clearly not easy to recognize.
<!--quoteo(post=1697063:date=Jan 3 2009, 02:10 PM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Jan 3 2009, 02:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What I hate about commanding is that the interface is clunky (though, its HL1, so I'll give that a pass). and while you can customize the keys, they appear to be very difficult to manage at first.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have to disagree here dude, I found the hotkey layout to be probably the most intuitive and efficient of any RTS I've ever played. It takes all of 20 seconds to understand how it all works.
<!--quoteo(post=1697622:date=Jan 13 2009, 08:32 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bacillus @ Jan 13 2009, 08:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697622"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually you can tell whether the armory is upgraded by looking at certain blocks. AA has some extra circuit covered blocks near the floor. I've seen some competetive players going for unupgraded armorys at very unsuitable moments though, so it's clearly not easy to recognize.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably thought it was upgrading. Best time to hit the armory. Gotta watch for it shaking.
<!--quoteo(post=1697652:date=Jan 14 2009, 04:12 AM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(marks @ Jan 14 2009, 04:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697652"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have to disagree here dude, I found the hotkey layout to be probably the most intuitive and efficient of any RTS I've ever played. It takes all of 20 seconds to understand how it all works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> He was probably referring to the rest of the UI. 5 hotgroups, unrealiable drop angles, easily misused recycle and such need improvement big time.
The key layout itself is really good for me and most RTS gamers seem to customize their keys into a quite similar big chunk anyway. However, the way NS allows you to customize the comm hotkeys isn't that inuitive at all.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Probably <b>thought</b> it was upgrading. Best time to hit the armory. Gotta watch for it shaking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ye, they probably thought it was upgrading, but it doesn't seem to be that clearly distinquishable when you're in a hurry baserushing. Sometimes people risk 2 fades and a lerk to get the very standard 10 res armory down.
Not knowing that "v" recycled buildings and having that bound to my voice button. Maybe having recycle bound to "r" would make more sense. I do have a key bound to voice that is not "v" for commanding, but some times I forget and recycle still.
Dropping meds/ammo/catpacks on moving targets is sometimes confusing... a more precise method (which is well documented in a manual) would make commanding a bit more strait-forward to any one jumping in the chair for the first time. If these options exist I have not figured them out yet.
Having overhead way-points that could be for the overhead camera to cycle through would help for moving between base and forward activities/bases. If this option exists, I have not figured it out yet.
I havent actively played NS for 2 years, but I had good experience in commanding. I commanded most of my games when I played. (I'm eagerly waiting for NS:S)
Commanding was my favorite thing in NS, and the thing I never used to was remembering all the things I was going to do. I read some previous posts and there were many ideas what I had in my mind myself, to help command remember what he was doing or what he was supposed to do. Like upgrading, placing RT, PG or waypoint. The game is hectic, so the time matters alot at the start of the game and nothing should be forgotten, or it fire back heavily.
I liked the idea of setting multiple waypoints to player or group. Like: Go to RT1, then RT2, and then wat at Hive X (for PG). So when they get to the first RT, I dont have to go and tell them to go to the second one I already had in mind.
The other Idea was to put all upgrades on right side of the screen, and then we could just click to them to upgrade. So we dont really need to hotkey arms and obs for objects, but for ex. obs or pg near alien hive.
The other annoying thing was the meds and ammos, that were hard to drop for players who stand on water or something like that. And some meds and ammos were stuck to the roof. I dont know if it still has this problem since I havent played for long time, but just saying <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> Zoom in and out option in commander screen would be nice.
Tagging the map for marines would be very useful, like putting tags "Alien rt here, destroy" or "Alien hive going up here, hurry!" or "OC wall here, go around here, GL come here" would help team play alot. The reason of tags is that commander doesnt have to write those in chat screen because it may not be noticed, and commander can use his time to do something else.
I suppose everything here was already suggested, but if nothing else, I'm pressing the importance of those suggestions <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1697665:date=Jan 14 2009, 02:23 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bacillus @ Jan 14 2009, 02:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He was probably referring to the rest of the UI. 5 hotgroups, unrealiable drop angles, easily misused recycle and such need improvement big time.
The key layout itself is really good for me and most RTS gamers seem to customize their keys into a quite similar big chunk anyway. However, the way NS allows you to customize the comm hotkeys isn't that inuitive at all. Ye, they probably thought it was upgrading, but it doesn't seem to be that clearly distinquishable when you're in a hurry baserushing. Sometimes people risk 2 fades and a lerk to get the very standard 10 res armory down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No it's not apparent. Maybe it should be, but a "hurry base rush" should be a risky endeavour. If you don't know if the armory is upgrading that's the kind of thing scouting is for.
<!--quoteo(post=1698747:date=Jan 28 2009, 03:03 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jan 28 2009, 03:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1698747"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No it's not apparent. Maybe it should be, but a "hurry base rush" should be a risky endeavour. If you don't know if the armory is upgrading that's the kind of thing scouting is for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I can definitely live with such features and most often also enjoy them. However, I think UWE is trying to get rid of things like that, since they're quite uninuitive and create some unnecessary bumps in learning curve. People can play for years and never know the difference of standard armory and AA unless someone mentions it.
More scouting is defnitely something I'd like to see in NS2, but then again it also puts more pressure on the whole team. Even NS1 level of scouting seems to be too much for public play here and there, not to speak of some more complex timing/counter/whatever system based on scouting.
I avoid getting in the command chair because I haven't used it in a while and aren't very good. It would be nice to see a single-player mode, even if it's just multi-player maps with bots, so that people can get used to comming before they do so in a real game. I know that when my comm does something stupid, we always immediately eject, no questions asked.
My ideas about commanding: - When I first stepped into the chair, I remember fighting the controls, and trying to learn the complex hot keys - but that was before the current genious hotkey system (which should be used in every RTS). - Small player names is probably the biggest HUD flaw currently. Trying to catch the names of 3 people to command them (in competitive games, squads or waypoints are not really used) can take irritatingly long if the marines are hopping around. Bigger font ftw. - Ability to see ammo and health status clearly next to marines - HUD should show the number of active RTs. Counting them from the minimap is slow. - I don't really care what kind of HUD does the NS2 ship with, but I prefer minimalistic version, thus I have nL pack for transparent HUD as the default version is a bit too bloat. - Minimap could have some kind of mode to show the recently scouted areas with different color. Especially for RTs. - Some kind of minimap history mode (for commander to analyze where the aliens are most likely) of alien spottings could be ok - Polling is rather boring. Messages for building / upgrade completition are great, likewise some kind of bars for upgrade processes at top - Either show all building's health all the time or some kind of button to show them so you can check for damaged buildings - Supreme Commander has some really great GUI ideas, especially the graph-like overview with high FPS. - Ability to detonate mines or deal direct damage would greatly increase commander experience (fun factor). - Some kind of automation for public gaming like clicking some area (such as choke point and RT) and game will automatically make sure given number of players will be there (by giving them waypoints as people die / get close to area). Also ability to make someone a "res-capper" would give him automatically waypoints for the safest and closest nodes. - Useful commander tips for beginners, which are not annoying popups but intelligent messages such as: "Fades have been spotted, Weapon Level 1 is strongly recommended (Click here to upgrade)" - Maybe some useful statistics available behind a button. Could be graphs about kills/deaths/rts per time - After game some kind of result page showing a chronological line with evens such as hive drops, chamber drops, upgrade completes, accompanied by deaths per time, or rts per time. Also res usage distribution (like upgrades, medpacks, weapons). This could be useful for new and more experienced comms alike.
slayer20Killed a man once.Join Date: 2007-12-13Member: 63157Members, Reinforced - Shadow
One thing I can not stand is not being able to drop a med pack RIGHT on a marine. I always have to place it right next to them and watch as they don't pick it up then complain to me how they died.
What do/did i hate when commanding? -When im commanding it feels like i need to be everywhere and even when i finish some tasks i have new ones. I had to go to base for upgrades when my men were dying on the battlefield when i were clicking different boxes to get upgrades <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />. You never feel fast enough to finish multiple tasks. So i hate that i need to click the buildings to "find" the correct upgrade for the situation.
What i would like to see added for the commander? -Strategic Map where i could "paint" arrows and some simpliest plans and then the players on field could see on their minimap. (even made some photoshopping on the old mockup photo. -Left side menu for the upgrades, and how long they last to be finished and a chance to press circle button to easily get another lvl without going to base and pressing buildings to start upgrading.
Check this old mockup photo with "my" ideas: <img src="http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9769/ideasr.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Only been commander once, messed up, got kicked out and just stuck to playing regular marine or alien from then on. So like quite a few others I'd like to see some sort of practice/sandbox mode.
This may have been suggested before but 12 pages is a lot of reading, sorry. Maybe some way to customize your HUD, people playing this on a 15" screen can't handle as many buttons on their screen as someone using a 24" one. Besides having a simple add/remove function, there could be some sort of 'slot' system, so you can put the functions you want to use, exactly where you want them.
When I was commander the first time I was obcessed in making up minigun turrets in order to defend the base, which I was sadly mistaken because I was overwhelmed.
I really think and hope that the suggestion about the training simulation of how the CC works gets implemented, since it would help ALOT of newcommers! Also it would be neat if you couldn't get in the CC if you haden't been through this training simulation.
- Newbie: (Oh nice game..) "What is this command chair thingy?" - CC: "Access denied! Go train!"
RTS in NS is just not the same as in other games, since you need to do it right the first time unless you want to ruin the experience for the rest of the team.
J!..? You wrote in one of your posts (120/130ish) that we should remind you that you should write a post with the changes you have made basted on community input... Looking forward to it when you get the time for it..
writing this on my lunch break so i don't have time to read all of the other posts here (sorry) The second commander sounds like a fascenating way of learning the ropes, to be able to learn from the first (maybe have the ability to observe what the other commander does).
I'd want an offline "practice" mode with bots - something to get used to the interface and perfecting build orders.
My suggestion is to make the UI more like Warcraft 3. Although its been a while since i have ever seen the commander UI in NS, I dont think there is a mini map which you can simply click on to get to any specific, or at least the general area, of a map quickly of where you would like to be viewing; Also being able to click and drag your cursor around the mini map would be useful. I think that would help speed up looking around the map much faster.
Someone a while back suggested being able to create groups of marines by being able to select marines and pressing Ctrl + #. This would make group selection of marines much more efficient. Managing several groups of marines with different orders would make a good use of this. Double tapping the assigned group number of marines could also take you directly to them, i dont know how this would work well though if the selected group of marines is spread out very far though.
I'll have to actually play the commander to make sure im not repeating any other ideas. My general idea though is to make managing marines, or even the aliens now, much more like warcraft 3 where organizing groups of units is very easy. Although, in NS the units have a mind of their own and they decide whether to listen to the commander or not.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
1. Sequenced Waypoints ala Supreme Commander. Hopefully with the ability to move the waypoints around by clicking and dragging with the mouse and with a straight coloured line overlay between waypoints or potentially a line that snaps to the map hallways.
1a. Has it been mentioned that it would be very useful if the 'secured' sections of the map that the marines have powered on and everything would help the marines by giving an illuminated waypoint trail along the wall or floor, like the slowly pulsing lights from Alien Resurrection that pulsed in the direction towards the escape pods.
2. Detached Research Panel: Why not make ALL research based on ONE menu tab that is on the UI that pops up and would have either a tree or circle-ring heirarchy of research that would be attached to a small icon of it's respective building, like an OBS or Armoury or Arms Lab. If you don't have that building it's icon would be greyed out. And if you make it a tree-hierarchy it will be EXTREMELY obvious which research needs what pre-reqs!
3. Pooled Obs Energy: When a comm needs to scan an area he should be able to just push a button an icon on the UI or a hotkey and then activate the scan in the room. If he has one Obs he might have say... 40 scan energy (or 4 scans, or whatever denomination) But if he has two obs in two different parts of the map, if those parts of the map are linked / uninfected by too much Infestation then the Obs should have a pooled energy, maybe 60 scan energy if you want to have diminishing returns or 80 if you don't.
4. The above concept of centralizing Obs energy can be applied to a lot more of the game as well and since you're the Dev, not me, you know exactly where it can be put to good use.
5. On-screen character HP without having to mouse over them would make it a LOT easier to know who desperately needs that medpack. Maybe Ammo displays as well? I picture a solid green bar with maybe a bit of transparency floating above the marines head, listing their squad number (colour coded?) next to the health bar which changes colours (yellow -> red) as the bar itself and their HP lowers. Perhaps a Research Technology could unlock the ability to see a display of remaining ammunition below the HP bar but still above the marine. I would imagine this bar to be a sequence of very small bullets (perhaps based on the weapon? Like the shotgun would have 8 small shotgun shells rather then like 50 LMG dots) that are slowly reduced to zero rather then a solid bar.
6. It would be cool to be able to see what a marine is seeing via some kind of small CCTV-type window, but it's not a gamebreaker or anything.
7. It would be cool to have a getting-in-the-chair animation as others have said. If you do plan on doing that, it would probably be a good idea to try to make the UI look a little more like the actual comm interface might be but due to usability issues you probably wouldn't be able to actually make it much of a proper simulation. (i.e. moving your head around inside the chair to look at different displays)
8. I don't know exactly how you plan to do Squads but please definitely make them easier to see. Either coloured decals on their shoulder pads so that other marines can see them (neat idea?) or some kind of UI overlay for the marines themselves with a (colour-coded) number that would pop up along with HP and maybe ammo (if researched) when marines look at each other. For the commander view maybe have a colour-coded (green,blue,red,yellow,something,something) ring around the marine's feet when they're selected or even when they're not so YOU know which squad their in easily.
<!--quoteo(post=1712478:date=Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeonSpyder @ Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712478"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. Sequenced Waypoints ala Supreme Commander. Hopefully with the ability to move the waypoints around by clicking and dragging with the mouse and with a straight coloured line overlay between waypoints or potentially a line that snaps to the map hallways.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
After playing Sup Com for the last few weeks this is one of the most usefull features it has! I highly recomend the dev team play some supcom if they havn't already.
<!--quoteo(post=1712478:date=Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeonSpyder @ Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712478"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1a. Has it been mentioned that it would be very useful if the 'secured' sections of the map that the marines have powered on and everything would help the marines by giving an illuminated waypoint trail along the wall or floor, like the slowly pulsing lights from Alien Resurrection that pulsed in the direction towards the escape pods.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I feel this should work like a UT3 waypath, just floating arrows and no need to own the area.
<!--quoteo(post=1712478:date=Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeonSpyder @ Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712478"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. Detached Research Panel: Why not make ALL research based on ONE menu tab that is on the UI that pops up and would have either a tree or circle-ring heirarchy of research that would be attached to a small icon of it's respective building, like an OBS or Armoury or Arms Lab. If you don't have that building it's icon would be greyed out. And if you make it a tree-hierarchy it will be EXTREMELY obvious which research needs what pre-reqs!
3. Pooled Obs Energy: When a comm needs to scan an area he should be able to just push a button an icon on the UI or a hotkey and then activate the scan in the room. If he has one Obs he might have say... 40 scan energy (or 4 scans, or whatever denomination) But if he has two obs in two different parts of the map, if those parts of the map are linked / uninfected by too much Infestation then the Obs should have a pooled energy, maybe 60 scan energy if you want to have diminishing returns or 80 if you don't.
4. The above concept of centralizing Obs energy can be applied to a lot more of the game as well and since you're the Dev, not me, you know exactly where it can be put to good use.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All research could be centralized, its less tactical but much easier. Having more of the same structure means that research would go faster, if a structure is destroyed but another still stands then you don't lose the research half way it just slows back down. This would probably make the game harder for aliens tho.
<!--quoteo(post=1712478:date=Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeonSpyder @ Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712478"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5. On-screen character HP without having to mouse over them would make it a LOT easier to know who desperately needs that medpack. Maybe Ammo displays as well? I picture a solid green bar with maybe a bit of transparency floating above the marines head, listing their squad number (colour coded?) next to the health bar which changes colours (yellow -> red) as the bar itself and their HP lowers. Perhaps a Research Technology could unlock the ability to see a display of remaining ammunition below the HP bar but still above the marine. I would imagine this bar to be a sequence of very small bullets (perhaps based on the weapon? Like the shotgun would have 8 small shotgun shells rather then like 50 LMG dots) that are slowly reduced to zero rather then a solid bar.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agree, but I don't think its worth a research item. Other marines should see this data as well when the aim at their teammates.
<!--quoteo(post=1712478:date=Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeonSpyder @ Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712478"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->6. It would be cool to be able to see what a marine is seeing via some kind of small CCTV-type window, but it's not a gamebreaker or anything.
7. It would be cool to have a getting-in-the-chair animation as others have said. If you do plan on doing that, it would probably be a good idea to try to make the UI look a little more like the actual comm interface might be but due to usability issues you probably wouldn't be able to actually make it much of a proper simulation. (i.e. moving your head around inside the chair to look at different displays)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Funky but not needed.
<!--quoteo(post=1712478:date=Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeonSpyder @ Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712478"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->8. I don't know exactly how you plan to do Squads but please definitely make them easier to see. Either coloured decals on their shoulder pads so that other marines can see them (neat idea?) or some kind of UI overlay for the marines themselves with a (colour-coded) number that would pop up along with HP and maybe ammo (if researched) when marines look at each other. For the commander view maybe have a colour-coded (green,blue,red,yellow,something,something) ring around the marine's feet when they're selected or even when they're not so YOU know which squad their in easily.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love this, a small number on each marines shoulder with their squad and a number on marine popup info(with health and ammo).
<!--quoteo(post=1713023:date=Jun 19 2009, 10:35 PM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Jun 19 2009, 10:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713023"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Funky but not needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What he said. Obligatory pulling-reason-out-of-arse: Comms interface directly with the comm "chair". Through a cybernetic connection. Or some ######.
<!--quoteo(post=1643285:date=Aug 11 2007, 01:22 PM:name=Kalopsia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalopsia @ Aug 11 2007, 01:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1643285"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- I also wouldn't mind being commander and being able to click on a player and see in a little screen what they are seeing, may prove to be abit resource hungry but yer, i think that would be cool.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this Idea allot like a hud camera from gmod 10.
<b>A player camera</b> is rather useless. It doesn't provide any other information that commander doesn't have. The only useful purpose is that you can say: "lol get aim". Besides, it would take a bunch of the view space that would a lot more useful for something else. If its toggleable, then no problem but prob. not worth the trouble.
<b>Sequenced waypoints</b> is a good idea, mainly for the public though. But who knows, maybe waypoints could be used competitively. Now they are somewhat limited. If you could sequence waypoints like build that, phase there, cap that, weld that, attack there it might be useful. It could also have ability to select spawning marines. Now its just a lot more easy to say all that over voice com.
<b>Seeing HP's (and armor) and RT count</b> all the time is very useful
<b>Resource Model</b> could be like in SupCom for several reasons. First of all, it makes it possible use <b>sequenced research</b> with pausing. This also decreases the amount of micro-management needed. While the CC shouldn't be doing comms job, the success rate of comm is directly propotional to the number of enjoyable games there are in NS. It doesn't really hurt the gameplay when the job is easy from the technical side, as long as its challenging on the tactical and strategic side. Having to remember and do less stuff isn't bad idea when the CC is not doing decisions for the com.
<b>Anything to help new comms</b> is a good thing in general as long it can toggled for experienced ones (like tips). Verbal reminders for excess res or lack of res towers would be good ones. They could do a lot more for new comms such as remind to drop weapons when there are fades around.
<b>Height</b> is a very important thing like Bacillus said. Just like in SSBM (super smash brothers melee) its annoying when the camera zooms out and its all about hitting the right pixel. Its also rather annoying to look at small things. Maybe the mapper could also specify some kind of brush for the commander view level. Now I remember it was specified by some fixed height number, which isn't flexible. But rather, just keep the maps more flat. Ability to zoom in and zoom out using mousewheel is great. Especially in SupCom the units will become icons in broader view. Then there is also no need for map to move around.
<b>Minimialistic HUD</b> is great. Now there is a pack to have a transparent and minimalistic hud for NS1 (namely nL pack). The photoshopped com UI that was seen was great, but even more can be taken out. Maybe there could be some more bloated default skin, but then experienced comms could use more minimalistic version which puts functionality beyound outfit. Buttons can be small for such skin, because hotkeys are used. Map, action buttons (the right corner buttons currently), info bar (res, rts), logout and icons for requests are probably the only ones needed. Maybe the cartographic view of SupCom could be implemented in NS2.
<b>Current hotkey system</b> is awesome. However, teaching all the hotkeys is another question. Maybe the normal com UI skin could have some button to show a very visually explanative picture with keyboard and hotkeys. Its a lot better option than going through the menus for key configs.
<b>Polling</b> is unnecessary. Having a message or icon to show when some structure is idle is a good idea. This could include something like arms labs, armories, tfacs, sieges, full-energy obs etc.
<b>Teaching new comms</b> all this is another question. Tutorials are one thing but they tend to be rather boring. Most of the people won't read web tutorials or the manual anyway, so this is something a lot of thought needs to be put into. Radix made a great point. He went into the chair, put a TF and few turrets, got ejected and didn't know what he made was wrong. Now we can expect very many people doing the same in NS2 if its only possible. While only real place to learn to com is the CC, there should be something the comms need to do before getting in there. More discussion about it <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=106705" target="_blank">here</a>.
I really suggest SupCom, since it has many good UI / rts ideas, altho not everything (hotkeys, HUD size).
If there is going to be a stardard control bar that shows selected units, make it a little similar as Warcraft 3.
In WC3 you can clearly distingquish the unit types in your bar and scroll through the types with TAB. That way you can easily examine their status and issue commands to specific unit types quickly. So for example you could select a group, scroll through the units to check their armor and ammo, then issue GLs some specific targets and so on.
Another thingy might be some weapon/equipment specific waypoints. For example GL could have "Suppressive fire" to tell him to where the spammage is needed and the guy with mines could have "Plant mines here".
Waypoints with custom made messages might be useful too. Basically they would have the stardard look, but the text part could be customized by the comm in his config/files. So if the comm wants to have "Run through!" bound somewhere, he could create the script/bind himself.
The commander needs to be able to gag trouble makers. Obviously you don't want this abused, so limit it to 1 or 2 players gagged maximum, and have the gag instantly removed if the player leaves the comm chair (by vote or timeout or other).
The amount of times I would have loved to have the comm silence some loud mouth idiot who had a bad day and wanted everyone else to hear about it... Or just general comm abuse for not doing what their clan does "you f###ing noob"... please... no one wants to hear that. Give the commander the ability to put players in a silent time-out gag order for 10 minutes, and people will think twice about spewing hormones into their mic. No bickering... just shush... play the game or leave.
<!--quoteo(post=1713023:date=Jun 19 2009, 09:35 AM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Jun 19 2009, 09:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713023"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All research could be centralized, its less tactical but much easier. Having more of the same structure means that research would go faster, if a structure is destroyed but another still stands then you don't lose the research half way it just slows back down. This would probably make the game harder for aliens tho.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since it looks like the Alien commander is going to be given a slider style management of upgrades, I think it would be fair for the marines to get a centralised research control too
Comments
By that I mean, what I momentarily envisioned was computer consoles around the map that have localized control over nearby rooms. So marines would go to a certain room and any marine could log in to a computer and use it to drop certain necessities. Thus, the main commander doesn't have to deal with little stuff like medpacks / ammo and can focus on larger strategy, while the marines on the ground have more direct control over the dispensing of stuff like that.
I'm not really one to talk about commanding because I NEVER played commander. Someone early in this thread identified my fear - the requirement that you be on top of your ###### immediately when the game starts. Where people will be like "gg" if you drop the wrong building first, etc. Maybe finding out a way to slow down the beginning part of the game (which was usually the most fun for me) would help protect against the game being decided within the first 5 minutes.
I've commanded on and off for years, but most of it was done in the last year or two so most of my development and experience as a commander has been during version 3 (although certainly not all). I will say commanding in NS has been one of the most unique, frustrating, and satisfying experiences of any game. It's one of the things that makes me love it.
Some thoughts on alien commander:
Having an alien commander for NS2 concerns me a bit. It doesn't just make the teams more in common, but it changes the social dynamic of things. In NS1 there is plenty of 'always blame the commander' mentality. The commander on the marine team plays a pivotal role in the success or failure of the marine team. With the alien team though everyone is in a way equal, no one really has more or less responsibility than the others. Everyone takes on equally important roles based around the same functionality. Anyone can choose to go to any particular lifeform based on what they feel the team needs, what they are good at, or for whatever reasons they may have and they do their bit with whatever lifeform it may be. It forces a different kind of teamwork where there isn't one person you can point to and say 'you're in charge', they have to be recognized by the team and people do as they do. It's like a test in non-hierarchy order and goes in well with the way aliens work. I think adding an alien commander, regardless of what they actually do, drastically changes the dynamic in an unfavorable way.
I'm not a natural commander of people so learning to do it and do it well enough to win a decent amount of the time took a fair amount of playing, in and out of the chair. One thing of note is also that the more people trust, respect, and like you as a commander the more they will follow your orders so in that respect it gets easier to command. Also having to deal with a lot of ###### can be frustrating to a newer commander, but once you get better and prove yourself as a commander people won't ###### as much and when they do you can more easily counter their arguments and people jumping on the ###### at the commander wagon. I will list various ideas, experiences, and such with commanding that I've observed over time. One important point I will make is that commanding isn't for everyone so it shouldn't be designed to accommodate everyone. Although I do think the controls when you first hop in the chair should be different than the controls you use as you become an experienced commander. Certain things should be simplified for first timers that advanced users can change for increased functionality. I will detail some of these ideas.
Taking on the commander role requires you to take on a fair amount of responsibility for the team and to be the primary strategist for the team so for these reasons alone many people will avoid the chair. I don't see a problem with that.
Ideas:
Scanning - I think by default there should be a scan key and button that can be used to scan an area with a little indicator as to how much juice you've effectively got. This will let you know when you can scan with any observatory and will automatically pick one for you to use. This way you can quickly and easily scan without having to first locate an observatory and you don't have to check around to see how much each one has. That is the novice version. The advanced version should show you more precisely how much each one has and give you the ability to pick specifically which one you will use for each scan so that you can use one you are about to lose/recycle over another if the situation demands it.
Upgrades - If not always visible there should be a simple way to pop-out to see which upgrades are going and their current progress with a little bar or possibly a little timer over the symbol so you know how long you have. There should also be a simple way to start a new upgrade without locating the structure. If there are more than one it will either just give priority to the first one built or use some other method to automatically assign research to a specific arms lab. For advanced users they will have the ability to pick specifically which one will do the upgrading.
The buttons at the bottom of screen - for any decent commander they always use the shortcut keys to use these functions and have no need to click on these buttons so they should be notably smaller in advanced mode as simply a means of letting you know where in the menu you are.
Marine symbols on side or bottom of screen - A symbol list of all players. On one side of the symbol it can have a thick border color if they're part of a squadron and group them together when they are. This border will only go halfway around the symbol as the other half can be a color indicator to give you an idea of how far away the person is with like a bright green if the person is within your screen (one of the people you're actively overlooking right then) or red if they're far away on the map. That would tell you quickly which people you're overlooking so you can quickly select a specific one or maybe double-click to select all the visible marines to give them a new order. Also if you want your entire team in a specific area and you're overlooking it and then you see red up on the side of one or two people's image you can quickly identify that people aren't where they are supposed to be and select and issue them a new order.
If there's enough room there should be a few symbols that appear over the corners of their pictures. One for med request, one for order request, one for ammo request, and one for order request - rt.
Order request - rt - When someone requests an order when standing right next to an rt it will tell you someone is waiting for an rt, not a general order (with marines possibly having a way to choose either request), a symbol will appear on them showing that they've requested an rt as well as putting symbols on the map/players for ones that have requested things so on the large overview you can see what was requested where.
You could make it so clicking on the person brings you to them immediately. Perhaps (and make this optional) have it so clicking on the little health/ammo/rt symbol will automatically distribute one if you have the resources.
This symbol could also have a different little picture based on what equipment you have, like if you have a heavy or jetpack it could show it. If there was room maybe even show if they have an extra weapon/welder although that may make it too cluttered. Although that could just be a picture change so it would take up the same amount of space for the little picture regardless.
Three drop options to consider, one or two which could be an advanced feature. You should consider a way to drop directly on someone ammo or meds instead of having to aim at them. This could be the newbie way to do things whereby you can only drop meds/ammo directly on people. For advanced users they can have the additional option of free-dropping ammo/meds so anyone can pick them up in an area as needed instead of having to give them to specific players. The specific player option would also help alleviate any problems where it's hard to drop it on someone as you simply need to click on their symbol or click near them and have it given to the closest person. Maybe press an alternate button that is by default turned off for advanced users to drop freely. The third option to consider is a way to allow automatic dropping of things upon request. As a commander you could turn this option on/off to automatically give ammo or meds out when requested and there would be a couple advanced options like restrict by player (so someone has to be set by commander to automatically receive stuff, this could carry over between games) and a way to limit how much someone gets within a time period or put a minimum amount of res to do it. So some commanders may give out meds/ammo normally but say if they have 40+ res allow it to be done automatically so if they have plenty of res and don't want to waste their time on it, it's done automatically. What to have as the defaults would require testing to see what works for newbie commanders as experienced commanders would have a pretty good idea of how they want things and would go in and set them up before hopping in the chair.
A feedback system - Give a commander a way to rate reward or punish people who are good or bad at following orders or just executing them in general. This taking a peak at the player list and/or somewhere else you can quickly identify people you can count on and which you can't after you've commanded enough to build up reliable ratings so that as you become a more experienced commander you can tell more who is going to work for or against you. That would help you decide who to give certain orders to and who to avoid giving orders to. Helping you to avoid telling someone specific to do something that needs to be done and then having it not get done. It could also be used as a feedback system for marines so they know that their efforts to do as they're told are recognized.
Chair jacking - While in larger games this isn't as much as an issue as you don't get out of the chair as much, in smaller games it's more of an issue as you need to hop out to help shoot something or build something or if you're relocating you need to switch chairs. Someone hopping in and doing something you didn't want can be very annoying and destructive to the round and they may even refuse to get out. I've even had an instance where someone carelessly joined a game and saw the chair empty and assumed there was no commander when I'd just hopped out to do something shortly and then I had to deal with the idiot when that could have been easily prevented as if no one had gotten in the chair yet no one would have command control and when you join you can see who has command control regardless of whether or not they're in the chair. What can be done here is once someone gets in the command chair they have command control. So if they hop out of the chair (not ejected out) they maintain control. No one else can hop in the chair unless the commander either relinquishes command control or gives them the authority to get in. If the commander lets someone else get in while he maintains command control they can do pretty much everything he can, but he's still considered in charge of the team and can single-handedly eject the person if they aren't doing as he says. Like if he hops out of the chair and lets someone else hop in the new one for a relocate he can give them authority to hop in so they can recycle the first one and then if they don't get out right away he can eject them. That would also automatically remove their privilege to get in the chair from that commander's list and give them a down mark on that person's rating system. For advanced users you could even set up a few specific types of command authority so when you have command control and you let someone hop in the chair they can be restricted in specific ways with what they can do so they don't accidentally mess anything up.
In the heat of battle you can get pretty busy and it's easy to lose sight of specific things. Another method of feedback to give a special warning when like the command chair is under attack and it's your only one or an upgrading building is under attack or a specific structure (possibly configurable for advanced users) so you have more useful audio/visual feedback of the status of things. Perhaps a pop-out of some important structures to see their health %. An rt or turret or such under attack may be of little to no consequence and rings to you as 'structure under attack' the same as all other structures like the command chair, advanced armory, protolab, and such. I know as a commander it's your job to keep an eye on things, but anything to make it easier to get more prioritized feedback could be useful.
I don't know how weapon distribution is working in NS2, but if it's up to the commander a way to drop to specific players or bring up a little menu that gives a specific player a little res to get the weapon at the armory or something so you can avoid giving things to people who take them and jump in a pit repeatedly. As a commander you can still drop things more freely if you don't want to over-pamper specific people at the expense of the fun for the rest of the team who isn't getting much while maintaining the ability to give stuff to your best people so that you can increase your odds of victory.
Waypoints - Some way to more easily give multiple-point waypoints to direct people places by a specific path instead of having to issue a ton of orders as they move. Some of the problems people have here is simply due to how well or poorly a team listens and responds to their commander and that aspect isn't going anyway. But a way to issue orders more precisely. A way to manage waypoints already given better like when a waypoint is given it can start out a specific color for a player and it can change color as a sort of order degradation so you can tell if the order has been there for a while and give players a way to remove their waypoints from their screen. Also give the commander to remove waypoints easily for a specific player, for a squadron, or for the entire team. And if there is room somewhere some sort of indicator as to who has orders and who does so you can locate people who don't have orders easily and give them new orders or people who have had the same order for a while so you can remove the order or re-emphasize it to the player so they know they should keep guarding a point for example.
A way to prioritize an area. Select an area either by boxing off an area on the map with the control or perhaps some map built in way to selection areas. What this would do is say to the team 'this area is important'. People can see if they're in an important area or not or pull up the map and see what areas the commander wants priority on. This would be an advanced feature. And could also include putting a 'ninja' symbol on the map if the commander was looking for someone to ninja to a specific area. That way if I pop into a game I or wasn't paying attention or whatever or haven't been given an order specifically I can pull up the map and see where the commander wants people or if he's looking for someone to sneak to a specific area to build a phase gate. Maybe even give an advanced feature to give players a specific function. IE - designate someone as defense, offense, or ninja. That way you can see a little symbol of what in general the commander wants you to do, defend some/any spot, push forward on the enemy, or go alone to sneak a gate up. As a marine you could also pop up your map and see a little symbol on people as to their designation. The commander could see this too so if he designated 3 people as defenders and 7 as attackers on a top view he wouldn't easily know who is who right away, but with the symbols present from when he first designated people he could see a defender symbol in the middle of his assault team and know that he needs to redesignate someone or if they're breaking orders. All these things need to be quickly assignable and removable as to not cause problems and since this is an advanced feature a new commander wouldn't need to concern themself with these extra options that allow advanced commanders who have the ability to do more things at once to do so or find out which means of organization and way of giving orders and priorities to the team works best for them.
This could also be used to prioritize order of rt acquisition so you can look on the map and see what rt's the commander wants and go to whichever has the highest priority that isn't capped. Or give the ability for the commander to set 'restricted' zones for areas the commander wants you to specifically avoid. And on the commander's display it could alert you in some way if someone is going to areas you don't want anyone going. Feeding the aliens res or just being useless by going somewhere you're guaranteed to get nothing done. In the pictures of the marine for the game there is a little heads up display so perhaps for standard marines a way to turn on/off easily (kind of like the map) a visual display that would in 3d show restricted areas, areas of high importance, and show waypoint like things towards all the areas where things are desired like rts and then you can put it right back off so it doesn't get in your way of seeing aliens.
Something like that could also be used to restrict mine placement. Say you give out a pack of mines and want them to go to a specific area like on a phase gate, someone can grab them and put them where-ever. Maybe it's more fun and better to leave it that way, but perhaps consider allowing the commander to restrict placement of mines to an area. This would also require a good feedback system to let a marine know why they can't place them anywhere and where they can place them. Although I don't know how much that function would be used if you could specify who got them you'd not bother to restrict where they went so much to avoid them being dropped and unused because the person didn't make it and couldn't use them anywhere else. Maybe simply saying where you want mines and not hard restricting to the area so people can still drop them wherever, but they can see on the map spots where mines are desired by the commander and where they are already. So if there are a couple spots that the commander wants mines and he drops a couple packs and someone runs off and drops them at one of the spots you can see which spot still needs mines. (In NS1 if the mines were placed in a certain way on the phase gate you couldn't see them).
A way to issue specific waypoint orders. For example with a single click you could tell someone to go to point A. With a double click if it's right next to a weld-point it automatically gives them the order to go weld the point and gives the commander a little symbol on the side for the order so he knows if the order hasn't been executed (still unwelded - doesn't matter who ends up doing it). Also could be for like a resource tower, if you double click by a resource tower it can issue the waypoint order and as soon as they arrive at the point it can either automatically drop it for that player or automatically issue the request rt command letting you know they're in position to receive it. Or anytime you want to be notified as soon as someone reaches a point so you can then attend to whatever you wanted to do there.
Buildable area overlay: This would be a simple on/off display that would quickly cover/uncover the map in a mask that would show where you could and couldn't build as a commander. Sometimes knowing how much space you have and which areas you can and can't build can be useful. Maybe this isn't needed though. One thing I do hate is when I know there is room for something and I have to keep moving my mouse around by minute amounts to find the little build hole to fit that last structure in. A way to snap to the closest buildable area could be useful. So if you're over a buildable area it moves normally (and it doesn't force your mouse anywhere regardless), but if you're over an unbuildable area it will move/display the structure to the nearest spot where it can be built. This would make it simple to build radially from a certain spot too. Drop a turret, then just put your mouse over the top side of that one within the restricted zone and it would line up another one as close as possible at that angle to the first.
Maybe even an advanced function that allows people to say select a turret to build, drag a rectangle and it would maximize the amount of turrets that can fit in that area or specify how many you want and it would evenly space them for you. This would have to be tested to see if it would work and be useful. If you used the option you'd draw the rectangle and then at the top/bottom or whatever it would show a slider where you'd specify the number of turrets you want in the area and it would show the cost and visualize the spread and then you'd click okay and it'd place them all for you and deduct the cost. So for example you could drag a thin rectangle to quickly and easily make a line of evenly space turrets with maybe even a little click on the edges to start lining them up from a specific side/corner or center them. So in game you'd select turret build, hit the rectangle key, drag it real quick, type/scroll in the number of turrets and quickly have a nice line of them. Or perhaps even work like a wall function in some games, click and drag in a line and it places one at the starting point and as you drag the line out it adds another turret to the line as they fit, then release and it's done.
Auto-rebuild: A way to define a structure as auto-rebuild when a marine is nearby. A structure specified as such, when destroyed, like an rt, would auto-redrop in the same spot and optionally issue a build order to the nearest marine to build it when someone was nearby the spot. So you could put it on an rt for example, it gets taken down. Then whenever a marine goes there to rebuild it they're automatically given another and it would let you know when this happens. You could also have the option of just a single redrop or multiple redrops. May require some testing for when exactly to drop and how to handle it being ghosted or to avoid dropping it if there are known aliens within a certain distance or stuff like that so lots of resources aren't wasted by an alien ghosting it repeatedly or something while a marine is nearby.
One problem that I've had sometimes as a commander and as a standard marine is not being able to tell whether or not a structure on the minimap was built. Sometimes you'd place an item or see it placed on the map, but then you'd not know if it was built or unbuilt without going to it. This sometimes leads to things sitting unbuilt for a while. Some way for all marines to better tell what is built and unbuilt on the minimap would be useful.
Also in line with this is a simple way to visually tell if something like a turret factory or armory or whatever is upgraded or not without having to click on it. This was also slightly obscure from standard playing as if you look at an armory you can't tell if it's upgraded or not, but if you're like me you left your help thing or whatever on that would bring up the pop-up to show you whether it's an advanced armory or not so you don't bum-rush the wrong one. Information shouldn't be hidden like that as it gives an advantage to someone willing to have all the extra help information on their screen they otherwise don't want or need.
I think the primary challenge in this is not keeping the advanced functions separate from the beginner ones so much, but in figuring out how to adequately display the information and deal with the controls that execute the functions without being too cumbersome or cluttering the screen too much and making it so it isn't too easy to accidentally perform a lot of the wrong functions. Using the keyboard keys to go through menus and to easily activate various things I think will be fundamental for the end result to work well for advanced users. A way to quickly and efficiently scroll through options so that all these features fit into one interface. Advanced users should be able to customize the organization/layout of things too. Like on the interface of NS1 the advanced user would be able to move HA out of the weapon menu tab to one of the others and like move med/ammo to the weapon tab if they wanted. But that general idea of having tab subsets can be used for all sorts of functions not just standard drops, but orders and such as well.
Thanks for reading if you made it all the way through that. If I have anymore ideas or any of my current ones require clarification (although you can tell I tried to avoid that need) I can do so. Or if you think one of my ideas sucks let me know why.
My Hobby: Rollin' gorges.
Actually you can tell whether the armory is upgraded by looking at certain blocks. AA has some extra circuit covered blocks near the floor. I've seen some competetive players going for unupgraded armorys at very unsuitable moments though, so it's clearly not easy to recognize.
I have to disagree here dude, I found the hotkey layout to be probably the most intuitive and efficient of any RTS I've ever played. It takes all of 20 seconds to understand how it all works.
Probably thought it was upgrading. Best time to hit the armory. Gotta watch for it shaking.
He was probably referring to the rest of the UI. 5 hotgroups, unrealiable drop angles, easily misused recycle and such need improvement big time.
The key layout itself is really good for me and most RTS gamers seem to customize their keys into a quite similar big chunk anyway. However, the way NS allows you to customize the comm hotkeys isn't that inuitive at all.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Probably <b>thought</b> it was upgrading. Best time to hit the armory. Gotta watch for it shaking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ye, they probably thought it was upgrading, but it doesn't seem to be that clearly distinquishable when you're in a hurry baserushing. Sometimes people risk 2 fades and a lerk to get the very standard 10 res armory down.
Not knowing that "v" recycled buildings and having that bound to my voice button.
Maybe having recycle bound to "r" would make more sense.
I do have a key bound to voice that is not "v" for commanding, but some times I forget and recycle still.
Dropping meds/ammo/catpacks on moving targets is sometimes confusing... a more precise method (which is well documented in a manual) would make commanding a bit more strait-forward to any one jumping in the chair for the first time. If these options exist I have not figured them out yet.
Having overhead way-points that could be for the overhead camera to cycle through would help for moving between base and forward activities/bases. If this option exists, I have not figured it out yet.
Commanding was my favorite thing in NS, and the thing I never used to was remembering all the things I was going to do. I read some previous posts and there were many ideas what I had in my mind myself, to help command remember what he was doing or what he was supposed to do. Like upgrading, placing RT, PG or waypoint. The game is hectic, so the time matters alot at the start of the game and nothing should be forgotten, or it fire back heavily.
I liked the idea of setting multiple waypoints to player or group. Like: Go to RT1, then RT2, and then wat at Hive X (for PG). So when they get to the first RT, I dont have to go and tell them to go to the second one I already had in mind.
The other Idea was to put all upgrades on right side of the screen, and then we could just click to them to upgrade. So we dont really need to hotkey arms and obs for objects, but for ex. obs or pg near alien hive.
The other annoying thing was the meds and ammos, that were hard to drop for players who stand on water or something like that. And some meds and ammos were stuck to the roof. I dont know if it still has this problem since I havent played for long time, but just saying <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> Zoom in and out option in commander screen would be nice.
Tagging the map for marines would be very useful, like putting tags "Alien rt here, destroy" or "Alien hive going up here, hurry!" or "OC wall here, go around here, GL come here" would help team play alot. The reason of tags is that commander doesnt have to write those in chat screen because it may not be noticed, and commander can use his time to do something else.
I suppose everything here was already suggested, but if nothing else, I'm pressing the importance of those suggestions <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
The key layout itself is really good for me and most RTS gamers seem to customize their keys into a quite similar big chunk anyway. However, the way NS allows you to customize the comm hotkeys isn't that inuitive at all.
Ye, they probably thought it was upgrading, but it doesn't seem to be that clearly distinquishable when you're in a hurry baserushing. Sometimes people risk 2 fades and a lerk to get the very standard 10 res armory down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it's not apparent. Maybe it should be, but a "hurry base rush" should be a risky endeavour. If you don't know if the armory is upgrading that's the kind of thing scouting is for.
Well, I can definitely live with such features and most often also enjoy them. However, I think UWE is trying to get rid of things like that, since they're quite uninuitive and create some unnecessary bumps in learning curve. People can play for years and never know the difference of standard armory and AA unless someone mentions it.
More scouting is defnitely something I'd like to see in NS2, but then again it also puts more pressure on the whole team. Even NS1 level of scouting seems to be too much for public play here and there, not to speak of some more complex timing/counter/whatever system based on scouting.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=105606" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=105606</a>
- When I first stepped into the chair, I remember fighting the controls, and trying to learn the complex hot keys - but that was before the current genious hotkey system (which should be used in every RTS).
- Small player names is probably the biggest HUD flaw currently. Trying to catch the names of 3 people to command them (in competitive games, squads or waypoints are not really used) can take irritatingly long if the marines are hopping around. Bigger font ftw.
- Ability to see ammo and health status clearly next to marines
- HUD should show the number of active RTs. Counting them from the minimap is slow.
- I don't really care what kind of HUD does the NS2 ship with, but I prefer minimalistic version, thus I have nL pack for transparent HUD as the default version is a bit too bloat.
- Minimap could have some kind of mode to show the recently scouted areas with different color. Especially for RTs.
- Some kind of minimap history mode (for commander to analyze where the aliens are most likely) of alien spottings could be ok
- Polling is rather boring. Messages for building / upgrade completition are great, likewise some kind of bars for upgrade processes at top
- Either show all building's health all the time or some kind of button to show them so you can check for damaged buildings
- Supreme Commander has some really great GUI ideas, especially the graph-like overview with high FPS.
- Ability to detonate mines or deal direct damage would greatly increase commander experience (fun factor).
- Some kind of automation for public gaming like clicking some area (such as choke point and RT) and game will automatically make sure given number of players will be there (by giving them waypoints as people die / get close to area). Also ability to make someone a "res-capper" would give him automatically waypoints for the safest and closest nodes.
- Useful commander tips for beginners, which are not annoying popups but intelligent messages such as: "Fades have been spotted, Weapon Level 1 is strongly recommended (Click here to upgrade)"
- Maybe some useful statistics available behind a button. Could be graphs about kills/deaths/rts per time
- After game some kind of result page showing a chronological line with evens such as hive drops, chamber drops, upgrade completes, accompanied by deaths per time, or rts per time. Also res usage distribution (like upgrades, medpacks, weapons). This could be useful for new and more experienced comms alike.
-When im commanding it feels like i need to be everywhere and even when i finish some tasks i have new ones. I had to go to base for upgrades when my men were dying on the battlefield when i were clicking different boxes to get upgrades <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />. You never feel fast enough to finish multiple tasks. So i hate that i need to click the buildings to "find" the correct upgrade for the situation.
What i would like to see added for the commander?
-Strategic Map where i could "paint" arrows and some simpliest plans and then the players on field could see on their minimap. (even made some photoshopping on the old mockup photo.
-Left side menu for the upgrades, and how long they last to be finished and a chance to press circle button to easily get another lvl without going to base and pressing buildings to start upgrading.
Check this old mockup photo with "my" ideas:
<img src="http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9769/ideasr.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This may have been suggested before but 12 pages is a lot of reading, sorry. Maybe some way to customize your HUD, people playing this on a 15" screen can't handle as many buttons on their screen as someone using a 24" one. Besides having a simple add/remove function, there could be some sort of 'slot' system, so you can put the functions you want to use, exactly where you want them.
- Newbie: (Oh nice game..) "What is this command chair thingy?"
- CC: "Access denied! Go train!"
RTS in NS is just not the same as in other games, since you need to do it right the first time unless you want to ruin the experience for the rest of the team.
// descendent
The second commander sounds like a fascenating way of learning the ropes, to be able to learn from the first (maybe have the ability to observe what the other commander does).
I'd want an offline "practice" mode with bots - something to get used to the interface and perfecting build orders.
Someone a while back suggested being able to create groups of marines by being able to select marines and pressing Ctrl + #. This would make group selection of marines much more efficient. Managing several groups of marines with different orders would make a good use of this. Double tapping the assigned group number of marines could also take you directly to them, i dont know how this would work well though if the selected group of marines is spread out very far though.
I'll have to actually play the commander to make sure im not repeating any other ideas. My general idea though is to make managing marines, or even the aliens now, much more like warcraft 3 where organizing groups of units is very easy. Although, in NS the units have a mind of their own and they decide whether to listen to the commander or not.
1a. Has it been mentioned that it would be very useful if the 'secured' sections of the map that the marines have powered on and everything would help the marines by giving an illuminated waypoint trail along the wall or floor, like the slowly pulsing lights from Alien Resurrection that pulsed in the direction towards the escape pods.
2. Detached Research Panel: Why not make ALL research based on ONE menu tab that is on the UI that pops up and would have either a tree or circle-ring heirarchy of research that would be attached to a small icon of it's respective building, like an OBS or Armoury or Arms Lab. If you don't have that building it's icon would be greyed out. And if you make it a tree-hierarchy it will be EXTREMELY obvious which research needs what pre-reqs!
3. Pooled Obs Energy: When a comm needs to scan an area he should be able to just push a button an icon on the UI or a hotkey and then activate the scan in the room. If he has one Obs he might have say... 40 scan energy (or 4 scans, or whatever denomination) But if he has two obs in two different parts of the map, if those parts of the map are linked / uninfected by too much Infestation then the Obs should have a pooled energy, maybe 60 scan energy if you want to have diminishing returns or 80 if you don't.
4. The above concept of centralizing Obs energy can be applied to a lot more of the game as well and since you're the Dev, not me, you know exactly where it can be put to good use.
5. On-screen character HP without having to mouse over them would make it a LOT easier to know who desperately needs that medpack. Maybe Ammo displays as well? I picture a solid green bar with maybe a bit of transparency floating above the marines head, listing their squad number (colour coded?) next to the health bar which changes colours (yellow -> red) as the bar itself and their HP lowers. Perhaps a Research Technology could unlock the ability to see a display of remaining ammunition below the HP bar but still above the marine. I would imagine this bar to be a sequence of very small bullets (perhaps based on the weapon? Like the shotgun would have 8 small shotgun shells rather then like 50 LMG dots) that are slowly reduced to zero rather then a solid bar.
6. It would be cool to be able to see what a marine is seeing via some kind of small CCTV-type window, but it's not a gamebreaker or anything.
7. It would be cool to have a getting-in-the-chair animation as others have said. If you do plan on doing that, it would probably be a good idea to try to make the UI look a little more like the actual comm interface might be but due to usability issues you probably wouldn't be able to actually make it much of a proper simulation. (i.e. moving your head around inside the chair to look at different displays)
8. I don't know exactly how you plan to do Squads but please definitely make them easier to see. Either coloured decals on their shoulder pads so that other marines can see them (neat idea?) or some kind of UI overlay for the marines themselves with a (colour-coded) number that would pop up along with HP and maybe ammo (if researched) when marines look at each other. For the commander view maybe have a colour-coded (green,blue,red,yellow,something,something) ring around the marine's feet when they're selected or even when they're not so YOU know which squad their in easily.
After playing Sup Com for the last few weeks this is one of the most usefull features it has! I highly recomend the dev team play some supcom if they havn't already.
<!--quoteo(post=1712478:date=Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeonSpyder @ Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712478"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1a. Has it been mentioned that it would be very useful if the 'secured' sections of the map that the marines have powered on and everything would help the marines by giving an illuminated waypoint trail along the wall or floor, like the slowly pulsing lights from Alien Resurrection that pulsed in the direction towards the escape pods.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I feel this should work like a UT3 waypath, just floating arrows and no need to own the area.
<!--quoteo(post=1712478:date=Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeonSpyder @ Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712478"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. Detached Research Panel: Why not make ALL research based on ONE menu tab that is on the UI that pops up and would have either a tree or circle-ring heirarchy of research that would be attached to a small icon of it's respective building, like an OBS or Armoury or Arms Lab. If you don't have that building it's icon would be greyed out. And if you make it a tree-hierarchy it will be EXTREMELY obvious which research needs what pre-reqs!
3. Pooled Obs Energy: When a comm needs to scan an area he should be able to just push a button an icon on the UI or a hotkey and then activate the scan in the room. If he has one Obs he might have say... 40 scan energy (or 4 scans, or whatever denomination) But if he has two obs in two different parts of the map, if those parts of the map are linked / uninfected by too much Infestation then the Obs should have a pooled energy, maybe 60 scan energy if you want to have diminishing returns or 80 if you don't.
4. The above concept of centralizing Obs energy can be applied to a lot more of the game as well and since you're the Dev, not me, you know exactly where it can be put to good use.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All research could be centralized, its less tactical but much easier. Having more of the same structure means that research would go faster, if a structure is destroyed but another still stands then you don't lose the research half way it just slows back down. This would probably make the game harder for aliens tho.
<!--quoteo(post=1712478:date=Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeonSpyder @ Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712478"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5. On-screen character HP without having to mouse over them would make it a LOT easier to know who desperately needs that medpack. Maybe Ammo displays as well? I picture a solid green bar with maybe a bit of transparency floating above the marines head, listing their squad number (colour coded?) next to the health bar which changes colours (yellow -> red) as the bar itself and their HP lowers. Perhaps a Research Technology could unlock the ability to see a display of remaining ammunition below the HP bar but still above the marine. I would imagine this bar to be a sequence of very small bullets (perhaps based on the weapon? Like the shotgun would have 8 small shotgun shells rather then like 50 LMG dots) that are slowly reduced to zero rather then a solid bar.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agree, but I don't think its worth a research item. Other marines should see this data as well when the aim at their teammates.
<!--quoteo(post=1712478:date=Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeonSpyder @ Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712478"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->6. It would be cool to be able to see what a marine is seeing via some kind of small CCTV-type window, but it's not a gamebreaker or anything.
7. It would be cool to have a getting-in-the-chair animation as others have said. If you do plan on doing that, it would probably be a good idea to try to make the UI look a little more like the actual comm interface might be but due to usability issues you probably wouldn't be able to actually make it much of a proper simulation. (i.e. moving your head around inside the chair to look at different displays)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Funky but not needed.
<!--quoteo(post=1712478:date=Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeonSpyder @ Jun 16 2009, 07:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712478"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->8. I don't know exactly how you plan to do Squads but please definitely make them easier to see. Either coloured decals on their shoulder pads so that other marines can see them (neat idea?) or some kind of UI overlay for the marines themselves with a (colour-coded) number that would pop up along with HP and maybe ammo (if researched) when marines look at each other. For the commander view maybe have a colour-coded (green,blue,red,yellow,something,something) ring around the marine's feet when they're selected or even when they're not so YOU know which squad their in easily.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love this, a small number on each marines shoulder with their squad and a number on marine popup info(with health and ammo).
What he said.
Obligatory pulling-reason-out-of-arse:
Comms interface directly with the comm "chair". Through a cybernetic connection. Or some ######.
I like this Idea allot like a hud camera from gmod 10.
<b>Sequenced waypoints</b> is a good idea, mainly for the public though. But who knows, maybe waypoints could be used competitively. Now they are somewhat limited. If you could sequence waypoints like build that, phase there, cap that, weld that, attack there it might be useful. It could also have ability to select spawning marines. Now its just a lot more easy to say all that over voice com.
<b>Seeing HP's (and armor) and RT count</b> all the time is very useful
<b>Resource Model</b> could be like in SupCom for several reasons. First of all, it makes it possible use <b>sequenced research</b> with pausing. This also decreases the amount of micro-management needed. While the CC shouldn't be doing comms job, the success rate of comm is directly propotional to the number of enjoyable games there are in NS. It doesn't really hurt the gameplay when the job is easy from the technical side, as long as its challenging on the tactical and strategic side. Having to remember and do less stuff isn't bad idea when the CC is not doing decisions for the com.
<b>Anything to help new comms</b> is a good thing in general as long it can toggled for experienced ones (like tips). Verbal reminders for excess res or lack of res towers would be good ones. They could do a lot more for new comms such as remind to drop weapons when there are fades around.
<b>Height</b> is a very important thing like Bacillus said. Just like in SSBM (super smash brothers melee) its annoying when the camera zooms out and its all about hitting the right pixel. Its also rather annoying to look at small things. Maybe the mapper could also specify some kind of brush for the commander view level. Now I remember it was specified by some fixed height number, which isn't flexible. But rather, just keep the maps more flat. Ability to zoom in and zoom out using mousewheel is great. Especially in SupCom the units will become icons in broader view. Then there is also no need for map to move around.
<b>Minimialistic HUD</b> is great. Now there is a pack to have a transparent and minimalistic hud for NS1 (namely nL pack). The photoshopped com UI that was seen was great, but even more can be taken out. Maybe there could be some more bloated default skin, but then experienced comms could use more minimalistic version which puts functionality beyound outfit. Buttons can be small for such skin, because hotkeys are used. Map, action buttons (the right corner buttons currently), info bar (res, rts), logout and icons for requests are probably the only ones needed. Maybe the cartographic view of SupCom could be implemented in NS2.
<b>Current hotkey system</b> is awesome. However, teaching all the hotkeys is another question. Maybe the normal com UI skin could have some button to show a very visually explanative picture with keyboard and hotkeys. Its a lot better option than going through the menus for key configs.
<b>Polling</b> is unnecessary. Having a message or icon to show when some structure is idle is a good idea. This could include something like arms labs, armories, tfacs, sieges, full-energy obs etc.
<b>Teaching new comms</b> all this is another question. Tutorials are one thing but they tend to be rather boring. Most of the people won't read web tutorials or the manual anyway, so this is something a lot of thought needs to be put into. Radix made a great point. He went into the chair, put a TF and few turrets, got ejected and didn't know what he made was wrong. Now we can expect very many people doing the same in NS2 if its only possible. While only real place to learn to com is the CC, there should be something the comms need to do before getting in there. More discussion about it <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=106705" target="_blank">here</a>.
I really suggest SupCom, since it has many good UI / rts ideas, altho not everything (hotkeys, HUD size).
If there is going to be a stardard control bar that shows selected units, make it a little similar as Warcraft 3.
In WC3 you can clearly distingquish the unit types in your bar and scroll through the types with TAB. That way you can easily examine their status and issue commands to specific unit types quickly. So for example you could select a group, scroll through the units to check their armor and ammo, then issue GLs some specific targets and so on.
Another thingy might be some weapon/equipment specific waypoints. For example GL could have "Suppressive fire" to tell him to where the spammage is needed and the guy with mines could have "Plant mines here".
Waypoints with custom made messages might be useful too. Basically they would have the stardard look, but the text part could be customized by the comm in his config/files. So if the comm wants to have "Run through!" bound somewhere, he could create the script/bind himself.
The amount of times I would have loved to have the comm silence some loud mouth idiot who had a bad day and wanted everyone else to hear about it... Or just general comm abuse for not doing what their clan does "you f###ing noob"... please... no one wants to hear that. Give the commander the ability to put players in a silent time-out gag order for 10 minutes, and people will think twice about spewing hormones into their mic. No bickering... just shush... play the game or leave.
Since it looks like the Alien commander is going to be given a slider style management of upgrades, I think it would be fair for the marines to get a centralised research control too