Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I'd like to suggest something that I see in any typical RTS but don't see in NS. It's more visual than anything, but it has practical purposes as well. I'm pretty sure in NS when a player requests orders, it'll queue up an icon+message in the corner of the comm's screen which he can click on to snap to the point of the player requesting orders.
If you look at, for example, this screenshot of Starcraft 2: <a href="http://blogs.sun.com/kevin/resource/starcraft2.jpg" target="_blank">http://blogs.sun.com/kevin/resource/starcraft2.jpg</a>
The unit portrait. The idea crossed my mind and got me thinking. You could either A) include something like this with a static 3D portrait of a generic marine/exo/hive/res node/etc when you selected a specific unit. The pro's to this being that you could set the lighting and add other effects into the portrait to make it fit really well with the mood of NS2 or B) you could program a method where it could place the camera, lets say for example on a marine, in front of his face, facing towards him, so it would be a real-time unit portrait, and the pro's to this would be that the comm would be able to experience the intensity of the moment on the ground via the unit portrait as shots were fired all around and skulks and things flew over his shoulders in the portrait.
Hopefully I've described my idea well enough. Obviously it'd take work to implement it, but I think it'd make the comm experience that much closer to a true RTS.
EDIT: Oh, and also I forgot to mention that in a lot of RTS games you can click and hold your mouse on the portrait to have the camera follow a specific unit.
All this talk about adding multiple waypoints, painting arrows, and other features to form a battle plan to show your team where to go is simply obsolete when you can use your microphone to tell your team where to go. If you really believe a bunch of random players are going to follow your painted lines or waypoints without you actually telling them verbally than I have a bridge I’d like to sell you. Commanding in NS1 without a microphone if not down right impossible is extremely hard for the commander to organize his players, push certain critical areas of the map, tell players to respond to res nodes that are under attack in a timely manner, explain where to go/what to do when you get there, what aliens awaits them in the next room (commanders can hear the aliens thus having a good idea of how many skulks are biting the RT, where the fade is, following the onos around the map, is there an egg about to drop the hive ect…) without having to waste ping. A map with room and hallway names and a microphone is all you really need to order your team around the map. I’m going to be downright honest, if you do not have a microphone you cannot be an effective commander as there is no way your will able to type fast enough or get enough players to listen simply by placing a waypoint.
The vox idea: From my experience at most 50% of the players on your team will use a microphone. I can not remember a situation where I’ve had too many people talking, if anything I would like more people talking. This just seems like an unnecessary feature having to split your time managing two different groups of players, repeating orders, commands, tips, ect... Most of the clans and players who play regularly on a known server will probably use ventrilo or teamspeak.
Hotkeys: Five hotkeys have always been enough for me. #1 obs, #2 arms lab, #3 proto. Again the usefulness of assigning “squads†in NS1 is minimal if any. Each research is completed in a set time, if you watch the clock when you being the upgrade you will know when it will be finished. If not you can always hit the hot keyed building to check the status of your research. Only reasons I can see expanding the hotkeys would be if they expand the number of buildings that would need to be hot keyed. The armory only has two upgrades, one of which you get at the start of the game and the other is upgraded at the commanders discretion so it can go without a hotkey.
In NS2 I am deeply concerned about how the marine commander will function compared to NS1. From my reading marines will be able to purchase their own weapons at the armory and there will be the options for multiple commanders at the same time. Still unclear if players will also be able to buy HA or JP’s. I envisions situations where every time a marine spawns he runs up to the armors and buys a shotgun or HMG. If the weapons buying, buildings and upgrades is all coming from the same pool or res I find it hard to believe the commander will have the resources needed to being upgrades. Or what happens if he needs to drop phase gate at a critical moment in the game yet you have people buying weapons in base and never get the res required or it is too late.
The system as I am reading it is just begging to be abused. Player 1: buys welder, drops welder, buys welder, drops welder, buys welder, drops welder Player 2: buys shotgun, runs off and looses shotgun, buys shotgun, runs off and looses shotgun
What concern are players going to have to stay alive to keep their weapons when they can just say “If I die I’ll just buy another oneâ€.
<!--quoteo(post=1742065:date=Dec 2 2009, 01:29 PM:name=ShootMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ShootMe @ Dec 2 2009, 01:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742065"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All this talk about adding multiple waypoints, painting arrows, and other features to form a battle plan to show your team where to go is simply obsolete when you can use your microphone to tell your team where to go. If you really believe a bunch of random players are going to follow your painted lines or waypoints without you actually telling them verbally than I have a bridge I’d like to sell you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just because NS1 waypoints were rather useless in many cases doesn't mean NS2 waypoints are useless. The NS1 implementation was unreliable, uninformative, obstructive and distractive at the same time. Fixing those shouldn't be impossible. Once the system displays up to date waypoints in a clear and notable way without blocking the vital parts of the screen it becomes a much more valuable system. Being able to pinpoint exact positions without having to describe them into your microphone is really useful too.
Microphone is a cool feature, but using it alone certainly gets spamtastic for my tastes. In addition you can never be sure if the player hears or understands you, especially with all the accents and bad microphone quality on Euro servers. It's also damn tricky to express yourself clearly to different kind of people without some trial and error routine, which isn't an option in public games.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can not remember a situation where I’ve had too many people talking, if anything I would like more people talking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> With HLVoice even one person is enough to mute most of the background sound, which is terrible at worst. A lot of people have voice_enable 0 on public servers, so I think it's an issue for other people too.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hotkeys: Five hotkeys have always been enough for me. #1 obs, #2 arms lab, #3 proto. Again the usefulness of assigning “squads†in NS1 is minimal if any. Each research is completed in a set time, if you watch the clock when you being the upgrade you will know when it will be finished. If not you can always hit the hot keyed building to check the status of your research. Only reasons I can see expanding the hotkeys would be if they expand the number of buildings that would need to be hot keyed. The armory only has two upgrades, one of which you get at the start of the game and the other is upgraded at the commanders discretion so it can go without a hotkey.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The amount of necessary hotkeys depends. Right now I definitely want to have the flashing red armory icon on my HUD to prevent any skulks from getting extra bites on it before I notice the flashing minimap. Having an IP hotkeyed early game doesn't hurt either. If the hotkey icons are in the screen, having more that 5 is awesome. Against SC or while sieging I'm forced to switch hotkeyed obses depending on the battery level even now, so I think it's better to play it safe and add at least some possibility of extra hotkeys.
I played commander fulltime the first competitive season of natural selection and have maybe 2-3 years of commanding behind me - though I have not played ns for a few years now I still remember alot of it clearly - and fondly.
I dont like the idea of multiple comms and I dont like the idea of upgrade-reminders and being able to supply things instantly to people through management menus - the whole charm of commanding is that it takes a great deal of micromanagement and manual map-observing - simplifying that aspect would just ruin the experience.
One suggestion someone mentioned that I liked though was being able to use <b>arrows to look around</b> on the map - and not have them bound to your default move-buttons but have an extra movement-menu for the commander (just like you have vehicle move-buttons that are separate from moving on foot in games like planetside and battlefield.
Another thing someone said that would intrigue me was being able to filter out different levels manually from the commchair (visually) to be able to give maps more depth without commander being blind.
<b>Maybe have a 1-3 layer depth for the map?</b>
Btw I bought the special edition preorder - I'm a big fan of ns and wished primarily to support the outcome of ns2.
<!--quoteo(post=1643299:date=Aug 11 2007, 11:23 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Aug 11 2007, 11:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1643299"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- I think a lot of people avoid commanding is that the game itself has become fairly unforgiving if you don't get everything right from the start. You have to be on your toes IMMEDIATELY into the game (base placement, medding early marines, dropping RTs, listening\locating hives etc...). If the pace of the game was slowed a bit, and the possibility of more strategies added in, it might be less intense for a newer commander.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the reason I avoided the chair. From experience, they had to do something the same way per map to be the "best" at that map and get the "best" advantage, and if they didn't know what they were doing or weren't fast enough, they would be hated, defamed, even shot at in a few cases. That's why I hated it. People were tell me how to do it instead of letting me try different ways. Most marines bases and actually every Marine side situation in NS1 was. "Build base, upgrade, build defenses, upgrade, upgrade, UPGRADE!!!!, spam heavy armor and max weapons to marines and rush aliens. Marines either won, or used all resources so Aliens rush back and Marines lose. Thats pretty much all NS1 was for me... Half the time, the Commander didn't even do anything in ways of giving commands. As a marine, we were just getting our preferred weapon, getting ammo, and rushing to kill aliens and hives. Thats it o.O So yes, slower pace and more use of strategies needed! For example, more strategic locations, places to defend or attack to have advantages to. For example, a hidden rooms that gorges could be in with healing plants to heal their allies from vents that the marines could unweld the door into it and go in, kill them and turn it into a defense room by welding the vents and then welding the door when in desperate need of survival. After all, when making a last stand in defense, so usually barricade yourself into a room while blocking all possible entrances.
Don't know if it has been mentioned but as commander (on both sides I guess) a little feature that allows you to use mousewheel to zoom in and out from the map would certainly be nice. Minimum and maximum height could be set by the mappers in the commander's camera model properties or something.
This is my first post here - just want to say hi to all first and say what a great job the crew are doing with developing NS2!
I played NS right from the start and have always been a casual player. I've popped in to command a few times and I was overwhelmed at the complexity and especially the amount of micro-management that's needed. The way I see it is that as a comander you have two sort of phases; quiet phases for base development and attack planning; quick phases where your marines need speedy reactions from yours truly. I think the UI could be implemented in some sort of way as below:
In the quiet phases I think the traditional UI would fit and if we take the suggestions from the other posts it would make commanding a breeze!
My main contribution is with regard to the quick phases where I think the commander needs help with micro management. I take inspiration from WoW custom UI mods such as the ones priests use to heal people with in raids. I propose a feature where the commander should be able to click a button which toggles a sort of popup window/panel which contains the status of marines along with name, health bar (with some indicator of who is losing health the quickest e.g hp loss/second) and other relevant info. The commander can then click on a marine to give them a healthpack. Simple! In this window, the commander should be able to sort this view by e.g. hp loss per second, percentage health, armour, etc. so he knows who to give meds to. It would be cool to be able for a player to create their own custom sorts with the goal being so they can prioritise who to give meds to first.
A similar 'popup window' could also be used for giving ammo.
To expand on my point about giving items to marines who deserve them: maybe there should be some indexable value that measures a marine's performace over a game e.g. damage dealt as a percentage of total marine damage dealt, same for welding and same for following waypoints. Each of these could have a weighting so for example, following waypoints gets more points than welding. This index can then be used as a 'sort by' category in the pop up windows. This way the commander can decide using his own sense of righteousness about who to give the big guns to!
Another suggestion regarding the popup windows is the ability to show what marines should appear there. Maybe show marines in the viewable area or viewable area + 20m, etc, etc.
My final suggestion (I promise!) is to have moderate use of mouse gestures. E.g in the popup windows we can change our sorting view to View 1 using [shift] + [triangle], View 2 using [shift] + [circle] etc etc.
Thanks for reading! Hope you like the suggestions.
By taking inspiration from graphics software GUIs... when giving people weapons or equipment in the item distribution popup window, there could be some sort of toolbar containing icons for every piece of equipment. The commander clicks the shotgun icon which 'grabs' the shotgun, making the mouse pointer actually turn into a shotgun icon, and then clicks on multiple marines for quick distribution without having to click on the shotgun each time. Mouse pointer would change depending on item selected. This might help a bit when going beacon rushing? This actually brings me on to my next idea...
where the pop up windows can be maximised/minimised. E.g. The commander is in the item distribution window and quickly needs to dish out some meds, he minimises the item dist window and opens up the meds window to keep his squad alive. When the battle's over he can then minimise the meds window, maximise the item distribution window and carry on from where he left it.
De-select, cancel, and most importantly, <i>recycle</i> are all bound to the same key. I can tell you that as someone who's only dared to step into the comm chair a handful of times, this is prone to causing the sort of hilarious rookie mistakes that have you spending the rest of the round as designated cannon fodder.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->REMOVE THE DROPPING OF MED-PACKS.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Medkit dropping is the #1 most annoying aspect of trying to play Commander. It is frustrating to be setting up the base structures, researching technology upgrades, planning out waypoints, and capping resources, <i>meanwhile</i> 3 separate groups of marines are each constantly nagging for medpacks to be spammed on their location simultaneously. Not to mention the waste of resources when medkits fall onto a ceiling or into a hole. Also, it doesn't really make sense for the COM to be able to materialize 30 med-packs out of thin air inside a ventilation duct just to keep a single marine alive. It should be the COM's job to <i>lead the team</i>, not to be a portable medical vending machine.
This is why I would like to see <!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->medpacks as an armory upgrade or other base-located dispensed item<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. They should be a weapon slot numbered item, and carried in each individual's inventory. Thus, it is up to each marine to be responsible for keeping his own supply of emergency medkits. Allow each player to carry a set maximum of medkits (like 3 per marine), and this will fix the problem where Commander gets yelled at for not giving into the demands of whiny players who feel like the com is obligated to save their sorry ass for foolishly jumping into an alien infestation alone.
Alternatively, the Commander could designate certain players as Field Medics. As medical corpsmen and it is part of their job to carry medpacks and treat injured marines. So, instead of people complaining constantly about the COM failing to hand out medkits on demand, players are shouting "Doc! I'm hurt!"
<!--quoteo(post=1646220:date=Aug 29 2007, 07:45 AM:name=Stars)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stars @ Aug 29 2007, 07:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1646220"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When i suggested the idea of <b>Commander Rank</b>,
- Ranks go from -10 to 10, starting at 0 - It'd be a permanent stat, that you get experiance in by other players votes on your commanding. - It'll be VERY hard to get above even 8 CR.
I think its a lovely idea, to let people know how good a commander are. Or alternatively how bad.
Let them eject a -5 commander who sells bases and ######s around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree with letting players vote for your rank. COM rank should be based on number of wins in the chair, total amount of time spent in the chair on an active server, and other actual game statistics. Commander Rating could be negatively affected when you are ejected from the chair, or if you sneak into the chair and get out immediately after selling all the structures or doing other nasty things. Also, a commander with an extremely negative rating should not be able to get into the chair until a percentage of the marine team votes YES.
I like both ideas and don't see why you can't use them both. You could have a COM rank of up to 1000. You could earn 0-5 points by statistics with 5 being extremely hard to get, on most decently played games you earn 2, and 0 if you lost and did really bad commanding. On a game that you loose but did really well statistically you can earn 1 point. At the end of the game everyone on your team can give you a good, bad, or non vote. If the total of the votes is a positive 1-3+ then you receive 1 in addition to your stat point(s).
I don't know if this was mentioned but your title should probably change based on COM rank to show experienced you are instead of just a number.
nadyliJoin Date: 2007-11-01Member: 62791Members, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1753190:date=Feb 15 2010, 04:04 AM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Feb 15 2010, 04:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753190"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->De-select, cancel, and most importantly, <i>recycle</i> are all bound to the same key. I can tell you that as someone who's only dared to step into the comm chair a handful of times, this is prone to causing the sort of hilarious rookie mistakes that have you spending the rest of the round as designated cannon fodder.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This happens more often than I'm willing to admit. :[
Oh and the medpack haters, try to play competitive wc3 or sc and then come back. If you still think you need micro skills in ns, maybe commanding isn't meant for you.
<!--quoteo(post=1753190:date=Feb 14 2010, 09:04 PM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Feb 14 2010, 09:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753190"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->De-select, cancel, and most importantly, <i>recycle</i> are all bound to the same key. I can tell you that as someone who's only dared to step into the comm chair a handful of times, this is prone to causing the sort of hilarious rookie mistakes that have you spending the rest of the round as designated cannon fodder.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very important issue to deal with. Zh is one of the best commanders in europe and i'm not too shabby either. It happens to both of us and it sucks balls.
<!--quoteo(post=1756914:date=Mar 4 2010, 06:12 AM:name=zh`)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zh` @ Mar 4 2010, 06:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1756914"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh and the medpack haters, try to play competitive wc3 or sc and then come back. If you still think you need micro skills in ns commanding isn't meant for you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hell, you might need better twitch skills than your Marines when the JP's need meds.
The ability to assign commands to ctrl+x or shift+x or even shift+click would be very helpful for commanders. It might even find a place in people's hearts for field players too.
It would also be very neat if you could bind a particular area to a key so that you can snap there instead of having to fiddle around on the mini-map or push your mouse to the edge of the screen.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would also be very neat if you could bind a particular area to a key so that you can snap there instead of having to fiddle around on the mini-map or push your mouse to the edge of the screen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was just about to suggest this. I hate commander minimap (but love the marine minimap), becuase it always takes me to the wrong place.
Ability to "follow marines" would be cool. Like dblclick on marine and auto-follow.
Yeah, I've got loads of suggestions in my previous posts like sequenced building, upgrade messages, supcom-type auto-zoom etc.
Also, recyculing should be either dbl-click or hold for 2s (it could start recycling when pressed).
My biggest problem w/ the command chair is the fear you get when you've never done it before, or haven't done it on this map. Would it be possible to have a tutorial or some kind of NPC based practice command experience?
So instead of having games where no one hops in the chair for the first 1-3 minutes, we get games where even the cruddiest player has at least seen the comm screen and knows the kinds of things comm is capable of seeing/doing.
It's related to my previous post but I just realised how cool and handy it would be if I could just hold down a key and click for medpack or a different key for ammo. Instead of reselecting "medpack" each time and then clicking rapidly, you could just keep ctrl, shift or whatever pressed down and click to your heart's content. Public games are often spoilt by inexperienced commanders with slow item-select times and this would go some way to alleviating the problem.
Regarding jiriki's recycle suggestions, I would steer well clear of the "hold down for 2 seconds" option as it will slow down commanding significantly. The double-click for the recycle button option is better than what we have currently but ideally, having recycle assigned to an otherwise unused button is the easiest and most efficient choice.
The marine auto-follow idea is potentially interesting.
The NS2 Tutorial really should include a playable practice commander mode like I suggested in the "NS2 Tutorial" thread.
<!--quoteo(post=1760379:date=Mar 21 2010, 03:21 AM:name=Tweadle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweadle @ Mar 21 2010, 03:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760379"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's related to my previous post but I just realised how cool and handy it would be if I could just hold down a key and click for medpack or a different key for ammo. Instead of reselecting "medpack" each time and then clicking rapidly, you could just keep ctrl, shift or whatever pressed down and click to your heart's content. Public games are often spoilt by inexperienced commanders with slow item-select times and this would go some way to alleviating the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Err, there're already bindings for both (impulses 124 and 125). I use them both, a lot better than space or clicking the icons.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding jiriki's recycle suggestions, I would steer well clear of the "hold down for 2 seconds" option as it will slow down commanding significantly. The double-click for the recycle button option is better than what we have currently but ideally, having recycle assigned to an otherwise unused button is the easiest and most efficient choice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah but the point is those 2 seconds would be subtracted from the recycling time. But any of the options seems fine.
<!--quoteo(post=1760450:date=Mar 21 2010, 10:43 AM:name=Jiriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jiriki @ Mar 21 2010, 10:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Err, there're already bindings for both (impulses 124 and 125). I use them both, a lot better than space or clicking the icons.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't fathom why I haven't been using that, duh. In any case, make it easily accessible by newbies.
<!--quoteo(post=1760450:date=Mar 21 2010, 10:43 AM:name=Jiriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jiriki @ Mar 21 2010, 10:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah but the point is those 2 seconds would be subtracted from the recycling time. But any of the options seems fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I meant slowing things down by having your screen in the same place for two seconds instead of medding/scouting or whatever elsewhere, not slowing down actual recycle duration. But it's a minor point :P.
<!--quoteo(post=1760744:date=Mar 22 2010, 08:51 PM:name=Jiriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jiriki @ Mar 22 2010, 08:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760744"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What comes to accessbility, I think a button showing all the hotkeys would be awesome. Like minimap-button.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought the commanding hotkeys were already pretty transparent. They're all positional (and I thought labeled in NS1, have to check).
I guess if you want to provide a better interface have a dynamic label based on what the player's bindings are for each thing. That way people can re-bind and still see on the UI what the hotkey is.
What are some of your most memorable experiences (good or bad)? For example - what was it like the first time you stepped into the command chair? What do you love and/or hate about commanding? Maybe you avoid commanding and if so, why? Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i like commanding a lot but i cant in english server because we need to SPEAK english (im able to write even if its not perfect but we cant play and write on the same time)
the major problem when you dont speak is you cant alert the marine when a skulk is sneaking somewhere or if a fade is coming.
giving instruction SHOULD NOT be a problem they only need to follow the waypoints (but in all server i played in ns1 only 10 % of the player were following the waypoint). if no ppl go where the commander need them to go then we simply cant win.
ppl always cry for shotgun instead of going to the waypoints with 4 or 5 allies and crossfire the aliens...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What types of features would you like to see added or removed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
more radio command for the commander like " skulk spoted nearby" "hive in construction at xxx" "there is at least 1 lerk" "there is at least 2 lerk" xxx 3 xxx 4 xx5 ... a full set of command
i would like to see a lv system with xp. when a marine go to the waypoint he got 1 or 2 xp.... things like that. each bullet hit = 1 xp maybe so a marine who is always in the action zone lvup faster. (no xp bonus for killing please ppl are gonna cry cause of the kill stealer and its not teamplay) and we need to lv up SLOW. game like C&C4 sux after 1 week we are max lv its stupid. its more fun when its like a "no life system" lol i mean we need to play a lot (but not having too many advantage that would not be fair against noob and they gonna stop playing)
advantage to lv up : i dont know maybe a rank just for the fun but that would be useless. maybe something like + 1 hp and armor each lv. after 25 lv its + 25 hp and armor on a skulk its good and not too much. lv 25 would take 1 or 2 year to lv up (30 or 40 hour/week) i dont know if 1 hp and 1 armor on a marine would be enough to kill a skulk having the same. maybe 2 hp and 2 armor on a marine...
I almost never jump in the Com chair unless the current one goes AFK/leaves and nobody else wants to or other situational reasons.
I also have never been in the Com chair from start to finish of a match.
One of the first big barriers is learning the flow of technology and research. The first time I tried to Com I had no idea there was an armory upgrade or which buildings did what, unlocked what, allowed what research, or that you could have 2 arms labs and upgrade both weapons and armor at the same time.
Memorizing hotkeys was also an issue for me since I didn't know them, so if I was in a building's options panel deciding what research/upgrade to do and someone asked for something I ran the risk of either mistyping and recycling the building or not realizing the hotkey overlapped with another hotkey for the building I had selected (I also don't remember if this was possible or not since I rarely Com)
To solve the hotkey issue, perhaps making customizable hotkey settings for the Com chair as well as being able to print out a cheat-sheet of those custom hotkeys on a 8.5x11 sheet of paper could help facilitate learning to be a better Com (maybe even compartmentalize a picture of the building with the hotkeys so it becomes even more engraved into the mind of a new-but-learning Com)
The pressure that comes with being the Com also makes learning to Com difficult. The players want to have a chance to win the match even if the aliens are pro and the marines can't aim. Having a Com that doesn't know or isn't as fast as other Coms shifts the blame onto the Com and then players ridicule the Com either for not responding/communicating quickly or because one of the players "could Com better" (whether there was proof of it or not).
Ultimately, it seems that if you can't grasp being a decent Com within a few matches, people either F4, leave the server, or boot the Com out before any real progress can be made. The notion that even with the best Marine team and "noob" alien team that a not-yet-proficient Com can still lose the game for Marines makes it difficult and frustrating for both the learning Com and the Marine teammates, and there doesn't seem to be any real solution to this without changing the entire structure of the Marine team.
<!--quoteo(post=1744766:date=Dec 23 2009, 10:19 PM:name=Elde)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Elde @ Dec 23 2009, 10:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1744766"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont like the idea of multiple comms and I dont like the idea of upgrade-reminders and being able to supply things instantly to people through management menus - the whole charm of commanding is that it takes a great deal of micromanagement and manual map-observing - simplifying that aspect would just ruin the experience.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
100% agree, most of the ideas posted here were from people who seem to have the problem of baby-sitting marines across the map.
The only problem i have with commanding is dropping meds/ammo on maps with lights and structures but that's cool with me because aliens have a better chance of killing those pesky JPs.
If i would implement anything, let the commander recycle marines for being useless or not going the right way after repeated requests. (feeding aliens res by rushing hive) Or let commanders spend res to put marines in timeout boxes in the marine base where they can't do anything for a minute.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If i would implement anything, let the commander recycle marines for being useless or not going the right way after repeated requests. (feeding aliens res by rushing hive) Or let commanders spend res to put marines in timeout boxes in the marine base where they can't do anything for a minute.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
nice idea lol but they gonna eject u and put yourself in the box haha
idea : with a level system that would be good if a higher rank would need more vote to be kicked out of the chair
Comments
If you look at, for example, this screenshot of Starcraft 2: <a href="http://blogs.sun.com/kevin/resource/starcraft2.jpg" target="_blank">http://blogs.sun.com/kevin/resource/starcraft2.jpg</a>
The unit portrait. The idea crossed my mind and got me thinking. You could either A) include something like this with a static 3D portrait of a generic marine/exo/hive/res node/etc when you selected a specific unit. The pro's to this being that you could set the lighting and add other effects into the portrait to make it fit really well with the mood of NS2 or B) you could program a method where it could place the camera, lets say for example on a marine, in front of his face, facing towards him, so it would be a real-time unit portrait, and the pro's to this would be that the comm would be able to experience the intensity of the moment on the ground via the unit portrait as shots were fired all around and skulks and things flew over his shoulders in the portrait.
Hopefully I've described my idea well enough. Obviously it'd take work to implement it, but I think it'd make the comm experience that much closer to a true RTS.
EDIT: Oh, and also I forgot to mention that in a lot of RTS games you can click and hold your mouse on the portrait to have the camera follow a specific unit.
The vox idea: From my experience at most 50% of the players on your team will use a microphone. I can not remember a situation where I’ve had too many people talking, if anything I would like more people talking. This just seems like an unnecessary feature having to split your time managing two different groups of players, repeating orders, commands, tips, ect... Most of the clans and players who play regularly on a known server will probably use ventrilo or teamspeak.
Hotkeys: Five hotkeys have always been enough for me. #1 obs, #2 arms lab, #3 proto. Again the usefulness of assigning “squads†in NS1 is minimal if any. Each research is completed in a set time, if you watch the clock when you being the upgrade you will know when it will be finished. If not you can always hit the hot keyed building to check the status of your research. Only reasons I can see expanding the hotkeys would be if they expand the number of buildings that would need to be hot keyed. The armory only has two upgrades, one of which you get at the start of the game and the other is upgraded at the commanders discretion so it can go without a hotkey.
In NS2 I am deeply concerned about how the marine commander will function compared to NS1. From my reading marines will be able to purchase their own weapons at the armory and there will be the options for multiple commanders at the same time. Still unclear if players will also be able to buy HA or JP’s. I envisions situations where every time a marine spawns he runs up to the armors and buys a shotgun or HMG. If the weapons buying, buildings and upgrades is all coming from the same pool or res I find it hard to believe the commander will have the resources needed to being upgrades. Or what happens if he needs to drop phase gate at a critical moment in the game yet you have people buying weapons in base and never get the res required or it is too late.
The system as I am reading it is just begging to be abused.
Player 1: buys welder, drops welder, buys welder, drops welder, buys welder, drops welder
Player 2: buys shotgun, runs off and looses shotgun, buys shotgun, runs off and looses shotgun
What concern are players going to have to stay alive to keep their weapons when they can just say “If I die I’ll just buy another oneâ€.
-Shoot Me_I Explode
Just because NS1 waypoints were rather useless in many cases doesn't mean NS2 waypoints are useless. The NS1 implementation was unreliable, uninformative, obstructive and distractive at the same time. Fixing those shouldn't be impossible. Once the system displays up to date waypoints in a clear and notable way without blocking the vital parts of the screen it becomes a much more valuable system. Being able to pinpoint exact positions without having to describe them into your microphone is really useful too.
Microphone is a cool feature, but using it alone certainly gets spamtastic for my tastes. In addition you can never be sure if the player hears or understands you, especially with all the accents and bad microphone quality on Euro servers. It's also damn tricky to express yourself clearly to different kind of people without some trial and error routine, which isn't an option in public games.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can not remember a situation where I’ve had too many people talking, if anything I would like more people talking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With HLVoice even one person is enough to mute most of the background sound, which is terrible at worst. A lot of people have voice_enable 0 on public servers, so I think it's an issue for other people too.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hotkeys: Five hotkeys have always been enough for me. #1 obs, #2 arms lab, #3 proto. Again the usefulness of assigning “squads†in NS1 is minimal if any. Each research is completed in a set time, if you watch the clock when you being the upgrade you will know when it will be finished. If not you can always hit the hot keyed building to check the status of your research. Only reasons I can see expanding the hotkeys would be if they expand the number of buildings that would need to be hot keyed. The armory only has two upgrades, one of which you get at the start of the game and the other is upgraded at the commanders discretion so it can go without a hotkey.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The amount of necessary hotkeys depends. Right now I definitely want to have the flashing red armory icon on my HUD to prevent any skulks from getting extra bites on it before I notice the flashing minimap. Having an IP hotkeyed early game doesn't hurt either. If the hotkey icons are in the screen, having more that 5 is awesome. Against SC or while sieging I'm forced to switch hotkeyed obses depending on the battery level even now, so I think it's better to play it safe and add at least some possibility of extra hotkeys.
I dont like the idea of multiple comms and I dont like the idea of upgrade-reminders and being able to supply things instantly to people through management menus - the whole charm of commanding is that it takes a great deal of micromanagement and manual map-observing - simplifying that aspect would just ruin the experience.
One suggestion someone mentioned that I liked though was being able to use <b>arrows to look around</b> on the map - and not have them bound to your default move-buttons but have an extra movement-menu for the commander (just like you have vehicle move-buttons that are separate from moving on foot in games like planetside and battlefield.
Another thing someone said that would intrigue me was being able to filter out different levels manually from the commchair (visually) to be able to give maps more depth without commander being blind.
<b>Maybe have a 1-3 layer depth for the map?</b>
Btw I bought the special edition preorder - I'm a big fan of ns and wished primarily to support the outcome of ns2.
Best regards,
LD of clan IDAC and koSm
I just made this topic without paying attention that there already one particularly concerning the commander experience.
So if you mind looking at it.
:D
This is the reason I avoided the chair. From experience, they had to do something the same way per map to be the "best" at that map and get the "best" advantage, and if they didn't know what they were doing or weren't fast enough, they would be hated, defamed, even shot at in a few cases. That's why I hated it. People were tell me how to do it instead of letting me try different ways. Most marines bases and actually every Marine side situation in NS1 was. "Build base, upgrade, build defenses, upgrade, upgrade, UPGRADE!!!!, spam heavy armor and max weapons to marines and rush aliens. Marines either won, or used all resources so Aliens rush back and Marines lose. Thats pretty much all NS1 was for me... Half the time, the Commander didn't even do anything in ways of giving commands. As a marine, we were just getting our preferred weapon, getting ammo, and rushing to kill aliens and hives. Thats it o.O So yes, slower pace and more use of strategies needed! For example, more strategic locations, places to defend or attack to have advantages to. For example, a hidden rooms that gorges could be in with healing plants to heal their allies from vents that the marines could unweld the door into it and go in, kill them and turn it into a defense room by welding the vents and then welding the door when in desperate need of survival. After all, when making a last stand in defense, so usually barricade yourself into a room while blocking all possible entrances.
I played NS right from the start and have always been a casual player. I've popped in to command a few times and I was overwhelmed at the complexity and especially the amount of micro-management that's needed. The way I see it is that as a comander you have two sort of phases; quiet phases for base development and attack planning; quick phases where your marines need speedy reactions from yours truly. I think the UI could be implemented in some sort of way as below:
In the quiet phases I think the traditional UI would fit and if we take the suggestions from the other posts it would make commanding a breeze!
My main contribution is with regard to the quick phases where I think the commander needs help with micro management. I take inspiration from WoW custom UI mods such as the ones priests use to heal people with in raids. I propose a feature where the commander should be able to click a button which toggles a sort of popup window/panel which contains the status of marines along with name, health bar (with some indicator of who is losing health the quickest e.g hp loss/second) and other relevant info. The commander can then click on a marine to give them a healthpack. Simple! In this window, the commander should be able to sort this view by e.g. hp loss per second, percentage health, armour, etc. so he knows who to give meds to. It would be cool to be able for a player to create their own custom sorts with the goal being so they can prioritise who to give meds to first.
A similar 'popup window' could also be used for giving ammo.
To expand on my point about giving items to marines who deserve them: maybe there should be some indexable value that measures a marine's performace over a game e.g. damage dealt as a percentage of total marine damage dealt, same for welding and same for following waypoints. Each of these could have a weighting so for example, following waypoints gets more points than welding. This index can then be used as a 'sort by' category in the pop up windows. This way the commander can decide using his own sense of righteousness about who to give the big guns to!
Another suggestion regarding the popup windows is the ability to show what marines should appear there. Maybe show marines in the viewable area or viewable area + 20m, etc, etc.
My final suggestion (I promise!) is to have moderate use of mouse gestures. E.g in the popup windows we can change our sorting view to View 1 using [shift] + [triangle], View 2 using [shift] + [circle] etc etc.
Thanks for reading! Hope you like the suggestions.
By taking inspiration from graphics software GUIs... when giving people weapons or equipment in the item distribution popup window, there could be some sort of toolbar containing icons for every piece of equipment. The commander clicks the shotgun icon which 'grabs' the shotgun, making the mouse pointer actually turn into a shotgun icon, and then clicks on multiple marines for quick distribution without having to click on the shotgun each time. Mouse pointer would change depending on item selected. This might help a bit when going beacon rushing? This actually brings me on to my next idea...
where the pop up windows can be maximised/minimised. E.g. The commander is in the item distribution window and quickly needs to dish out some meds, he minimises the item dist window and opens up the meds window to keep his squad alive. When the battle's over he can then minimise the meds window, maximise the item distribution window and carry on from where he left it.
Medkit dropping is the #1 most annoying aspect of trying to play Commander. It is frustrating to be setting up the base structures, researching technology upgrades, planning out waypoints, and capping resources, <i>meanwhile</i> 3 separate groups of marines are each constantly nagging for medpacks to be spammed on their location simultaneously. Not to mention the waste of resources when medkits fall onto a ceiling or into a hole. Also, it doesn't really make sense for the COM to be able to materialize 30 med-packs out of thin air inside a ventilation duct just to keep a single marine alive. It should be the COM's job to <i>lead the team</i>, not to be a portable medical vending machine.
This is why I would like to see <!--coloro:#00FFFF--><span style="color:#00FFFF"><!--/coloro-->medpacks as an armory upgrade or other base-located dispensed item<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->. They should be a weapon slot numbered item, and carried in each individual's inventory. Thus, it is up to each marine to be responsible for keeping his own supply of emergency medkits. Allow each player to carry a set maximum of medkits (like 3 per marine), and this will fix the problem where Commander gets yelled at for not giving into the demands of whiny players who feel like the com is obligated to save their sorry ass for foolishly jumping into an alien infestation alone.
Alternatively, the Commander could designate certain players as Field Medics. As medical corpsmen and it is part of their job to carry medpacks and treat injured marines. So, instead of people complaining constantly about the COM failing to hand out medkits on demand, players are shouting "Doc! I'm hurt!"
- Ranks go from -10 to 10, starting at 0
- It'd be a permanent stat, that you get experiance in by other players votes on your commanding.
- It'll be VERY hard to get above even 8 CR.
I think its a lovely idea, to let people know how good a commander are.
Or alternatively how bad.
Let them eject a -5 commander who sells bases and ######s around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree with letting players vote for your rank. COM rank should be based on number of wins in the chair, total amount of time spent in the chair on an active server, and other actual game statistics. Commander Rating could be negatively affected when you are ejected from the chair, or if you sneak into the chair and get out immediately after selling all the structures or doing other nasty things. Also, a commander with an extremely negative rating should not be able to get into the chair until a percentage of the marine team votes YES.
I don't know if this was mentioned but your title should probably change based on COM rank to show experienced you are instead of just a number.
This happens more often than I'm willing to admit. :[
Oh and the medpack haters, try to play competitive wc3 or sc and then come back. If you still think you need micro skills in ns, maybe commanding isn't meant for you.
Very important issue to deal with. Zh is one of the best commanders in europe and i'm not too shabby either. It happens to both of us and it sucks balls.
Hell, you might need better twitch skills than your Marines when the JP's need meds.
It would also be very neat if you could bind a particular area to a key so that you can snap there instead of having to fiddle around on the mini-map or push your mouse to the edge of the screen.
I was just about to suggest this. I hate commander minimap (but love the marine minimap), becuase it always takes me to the wrong place.
Ability to "follow marines" would be cool. Like dblclick on marine and auto-follow.
Yeah, I've got loads of suggestions in my previous posts like sequenced building, upgrade messages, supcom-type auto-zoom etc.
Also, recyculing should be either dbl-click or hold for 2s (it could start recycling when pressed).
So instead of having games where no one hops in the chair for the first 1-3 minutes, we get games where even the cruddiest player has at least seen the comm screen and knows the kinds of things comm is capable of seeing/doing.
Regarding jiriki's recycle suggestions, I would steer well clear of the "hold down for 2 seconds" option as it will slow down commanding significantly. The double-click for the recycle button option is better than what we have currently but ideally, having recycle assigned to an otherwise unused button is the easiest and most efficient choice.
The marine auto-follow idea is potentially interesting.
The NS2 Tutorial really should include a playable practice commander mode like I suggested in the "NS2 Tutorial" thread.
Err, there're already bindings for both (impulses 124 and 125). I use them both, a lot better than space or clicking the icons.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding jiriki's recycle suggestions, I would steer well clear of the "hold down for 2 seconds" option as it will slow down commanding significantly. The double-click for the recycle button option is better than what we have currently but ideally, having recycle assigned to an otherwise unused button is the easiest and most efficient choice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah but the point is those 2 seconds would be subtracted from the recycling time. But any of the options seems fine.
I can't fathom why I haven't been using that, duh. In any case, make it easily accessible by newbies.
<!--quoteo(post=1760450:date=Mar 21 2010, 10:43 AM:name=Jiriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jiriki @ Mar 21 2010, 10:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah but the point is those 2 seconds would be subtracted from the recycling time. But any of the options seems fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I meant slowing things down by having your screen in the same place for two seconds instead of medding/scouting or whatever elsewhere, not slowing down actual recycle duration. But it's a minor point :P.
Yeah I hope the recycling is something you cannot click accidentally, double-click would probably be the best option.
I thought the commanding hotkeys were already pretty transparent. They're all positional (and I thought labeled in NS1, have to check).
I guess if you want to provide a better interface have a dynamic label based on what the player's bindings are for each thing. That way people can re-bind and still see on the UI what the hotkey is.
What are some of your most memorable experiences (good or bad)? For example - what was it like the first time you stepped into the command chair?
What do you love and/or hate about commanding?
Maybe you avoid commanding and if so, why?
Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i like commanding a lot but i cant in english server because we need to SPEAK english (im able to write even if its not perfect but we cant play and write on the same time)
the major problem when you dont speak is you cant alert the marine when a skulk is sneaking somewhere or if a fade is coming.
giving instruction SHOULD NOT be a problem they only need to follow the waypoints (but in all server i played in ns1 only 10 % of the player were following the waypoint). if no ppl go where the commander need them to go then we simply cant win.
ppl always cry for shotgun instead of going to the waypoints with 4 or 5 allies and crossfire the aliens...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What types of features would you like to see added or removed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
more radio command for the commander like " skulk spoted nearby" "hive in construction at xxx" "there is at least 1 lerk" "there is at least 2 lerk" xxx 3 xxx 4 xx5 ... a full set of command
i would like to see a lv system with xp. when a marine go to the waypoint he got 1 or 2 xp.... things like that. each bullet hit = 1 xp maybe so a marine who is always in the action zone lvup faster. (no xp bonus for killing please ppl are gonna cry cause of the kill stealer and its not teamplay) and we need to lv up SLOW. game like C&C4 sux after 1 week we are max lv its stupid. its more fun when its like a "no life system" lol i mean we need to play a lot (but not having too many advantage that would not be fair against noob and they gonna stop playing)
advantage to lv up : i dont know maybe a rank just for the fun but that would be useless. maybe something like + 1 hp and armor each lv. after 25 lv its + 25 hp and armor on a skulk its good and not too much. lv 25 would take 1 or 2 year to lv up (30 or 40 hour/week) i dont know if 1 hp and 1 armor on a marine would be enough to kill a skulk having the same. maybe 2 hp and 2 armor on a marine...
I also have never been in the Com chair from start to finish of a match.
One of the first big barriers is learning the flow of technology and research. The first time I tried to Com I had no idea there was an armory upgrade or which buildings did what, unlocked what, allowed what research, or that you could have 2 arms labs and upgrade both weapons and armor at the same time.
Memorizing hotkeys was also an issue for me since I didn't know them, so if I was in a building's options panel deciding what research/upgrade to do and someone asked for something I ran the risk of either mistyping and recycling the building or not realizing the hotkey overlapped with another hotkey for the building I had selected (I also don't remember if this was possible or not since I rarely Com)
To solve the hotkey issue, perhaps making customizable hotkey settings for the Com chair as well as being able to print out a cheat-sheet of those custom hotkeys on a 8.5x11 sheet of paper could help facilitate learning to be a better Com (maybe even compartmentalize a picture of the building with the hotkeys so it becomes even more engraved into the mind of a new-but-learning Com)
The pressure that comes with being the Com also makes learning to Com difficult. The players want to have a chance to win the match even if the aliens are pro and the marines can't aim. Having a Com that doesn't know or isn't as fast as other Coms shifts the blame onto the Com and then players ridicule the Com either for not responding/communicating quickly or because one of the players "could Com better" (whether there was proof of it or not).
Ultimately, it seems that if you can't grasp being a decent Com within a few matches, people either F4, leave the server, or boot the Com out before any real progress can be made. The notion that even with the best Marine team and "noob" alien team that a not-yet-proficient Com can still lose the game for Marines makes it difficult and frustrating for both the learning Com and the Marine teammates, and there doesn't seem to be any real solution to this without changing the entire structure of the Marine team.
100% agree, most of the ideas posted here were from people who seem to have the problem of baby-sitting marines across the map.
The only problem i have with commanding is dropping meds/ammo on maps with lights and structures but that's cool with me because aliens have a better chance of killing those pesky JPs.
If i would implement anything, let the commander recycle marines for being useless or not going the right way after repeated requests. (feeding aliens res by rushing hive)
Or let commanders spend res to put marines in timeout boxes in the marine base where they can't do anything for a minute.
Or let commanders spend res to put marines in timeout boxes in the marine base where they can't do anything for a minute.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
nice idea lol but they gonna eject u and put yourself in the box haha
idea : with a level system that would be good if a higher rank would need more vote to be kicked out of the chair