I think adding auto-aim would be ridiculous. This is a PC game, it's not like it is hard to become skilled with a mouse. Consoles have auto-aim because of those thumbsticks, you have a whole screen to control with a little thumbstick and it is much harder. As for anti-cheat solutions, my personal opinion is that something like cheating death would be great. I am against options that ban players from every server in the game for cheating, as it just isn't fair. No anti-cheat solution is going to be 100% correct, and there are going to be players banned mistakenly. I think the best option would be something that simply prevents cheaters from joining online games while they have cheats running. Once they disable them, or remove them, they can join again. Gives people a chance to "come back to the good side".
<!--quoteo(post=1717032:date=Jul 12 2009, 05:34 PM:name=JasonC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JasonC @ Jul 12 2009, 05:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1717032"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think adding auto-aim would be ridiculous. This is a PC game, it's not like it is hard to become skilled with a mouse. Consoles have auto-aim because of those thumbsticks, you have a whole screen to control with a little thumbstick and it is much harder. As for anti-cheat solutions, my personal opinion is that something like cheating death would be great. I am against options that ban players from every server in the game for cheating, as it just isn't fair. No anti-cheat solution is going to be 100% correct, and there are going to be players banned mistakenly. I think the best option would be something that simply prevents cheaters from joining online games while they have cheats running. Once they disable them, or remove them, they can join again. Gives people a chance to "come back to the good side".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes but a lot of people have laptops and only use laptops... and even more don't use a mouse with their laptop... but still play first person shooters.
Some use game controllers. My laptop should be able to handle NS2 if it can handle all the other HL2 mods and run Doom 3 smooth as silk... and it was a "cheap" notebook computer... so their will be a lot of other people with more then capable laptops playing NS2. I just figure we cater to the majority, or rather the future of gaming.
But why add an auto-aim just for the few that will actually play the game without a mouse or a controller? It's not really fair to the majority. That's what kinda sets PC apart from consoles. It's more for the hardcore gamers. It's nice to be able to depend on your skills rather than some auto-aim.
I just don't see why you'd actually want a feature like that in a game like this. Who plays an FPS on the pc with a gamepad rather than a mouse and keyboard? I've never seen anyone do that before. Even people I know that hardly play games, prefer a mouse over a gamepad for FPS games on the PC.
It just doesn't make sense. Adding a feature like that will only hurt the majority of people that plan on playing the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1717058:date=Jul 12 2009, 08:38 PM:name=sicbud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sicbud @ Jul 12 2009, 08:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1717058"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But why add an auto-aim just for the few that will actually play the game without a mouse or a controller? It's not really fair to the majority. That's what kinda sets PC apart from consoles. It's more for the hardcore gamers. It's nice to be able to depend on your skills rather than some auto-aim.
I just don't see why you'd actually want a feature like that in a game like this. Who plays an FPS on the pc with a gamepad rather than a mouse and keyboard? I've never seen anyone do that before. Even people I know that hardly play games, prefer a mouse over a gamepad for FPS games on the PC.
It just doesn't make sense. Adding a feature like that will only hurt the majority of people that plan on playing the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes but the developers of NS2 want to make something that appeals to "casual" gamers... that doesn't sound like they are targeting "hardcore gamers". And that they want to focus more on the RTS (commander) aspect of the game instead of the first person combat... NS2 doesn't sound like the game you or me want to play lol
And the devs want to make a successful game. Something that appeals to casuals but is also balanced for competitive play... I believe they want to be similar to StarCraft in regards to those goals.
devicenullJoin Date: 2003-04-30Member: 15967Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1716840:date=Jul 11 2009, 04:35 AM:name=Ice_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ice_ @ Jul 11 2009, 04:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716840"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How do you know some hacks don't take advantage of this feature?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll admit to having coded cheats before, to see if I could. In all the research I did on it, I couldn't find anyone talking about just enabling the built in auto-aim, since it's better in a few ways to just write your own.
The actual logic behind an aimbot is fairly simple. Getting your code injected and locating the proper functions that you need to hook/call is a bit harder.
In NS2, I predict cheats will attempt to bypass any controls that prevent the client from running unsigned or otherwise unauthenticated code. That would be my first step, since why deal with hooking and ###### like that, when you can just run Lua code on the client.
<!--quoteo(post=1717084:date=Jul 13 2009, 12:57 AM:name=devicenull)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (devicenull @ Jul 13 2009, 12:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1717084"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll admit to having coded cheats before, to see if I could. In all the research I did on it, I couldn't find anyone talking about just enabling the built in auto-aim, since it's better in a few ways to just write your own.
The actual logic behind an aimbot is fairly simple. Getting your code injected and locating the proper functions that you need to hook/call is a bit harder.
In NS2, I predict cheats will attempt to bypass any controls that prevent the client from running unsigned or otherwise unauthenticated code. That would be my first step, since why deal with hooking and ###### like that, when you can just run Lua code on the client.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm their's probably no lua-exposed function for direct control of the mouse (although their should be because it allows for more interesting recoiling effects etc).
They say their using some custom interpreter to the lua virtual machine (or whatever it's called). What that means is they just manipulated it's back end to better expose it to debuggers or the game, etc. So their's no reason it can't execute pure lua code.
What do you know... it is possible to script aimbots in lua... lmao. I bet it's even possible for some servers to install aimbots on your system in the form of lua files :D
I bet 2$ that we get another "Cheating in NS 2" thread in about 3-4 weeks. Constellation icons thread every 2nd week. And of course one black armor thread every week.
Aiming with touchpad is easy! I managed to be one the best aimers in history of ns with my precious touchpad. When I went to the zone there was just me and my touchpad... To be honest, when commander gave me shotgun I did pity those helpless skulks. I mean shotgun/touchpad combo was way too deadly for this world. Thefore I undestand why you want to add aimbot for those mouse users. They call me touchpad Tane!
<!--quoteo(post=1717281:date=Jul 14 2009, 11:20 AM:name=derWalter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (derWalter @ Jul 14 2009, 11:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1717281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->anti cheating systems in ns2 are an interesting theme!
it would be nice to hear something from uw about it.
i think all of us could remember the great ideas and start of S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
or take a look at CRYSIS, after two days there where aimbots speedhacks no clip etc in multiplayer and they NEVER got fixed or banned.
i would be very disappointed if there would be no official comment on this topic!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lets put it this way... their currently isn't a NS2 for people to cheat in because the devs didn't even get done with a Alpha... lets wait till after it's a tolerable problem that can be ignored by playing on good servers with good people. I mean how often is hacking a problem when you play NS1 right now? Probably never a factor. Or it's 100% never noticed because of how the game plays.
<!--quoteo(post=1716668:date=Jul 10 2009, 08:30 AM:name=JasonC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JasonC @ Jul 10 2009, 08:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716668"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's something about having a from-scratch engine that may not have been considered before. It's going to curb cheaters very effectively, especially at first. Cheats are developed specific to the engine, and if NS2 used Source, many cheats would be a couple lines of code, and a few aim vectors away from causing chaos. It's at least going to take a month or two to develop cheats for a fresh engine, and by then, cheat counter-measures can be put into place.
Cheating wasn't that much of a problem in NS, however the occasional alien/aimbot/speedhack combo causes devastation once in a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The good thing is, UWE just release the game with open lua, not open engine. But cheaters everywhere, no way to protect from them or stop them. There are some few smart cheaters, who only cheat sometime, so no body notice that...no way to stop that sick people, maybe some need to kill them...ingame. The best way is to ban them, i wish UWE create a feature for the engine, to find that cheaters and ban them from every server, but i am sure UWE can't do that, they have not the resources. :( So admins watch our for that bad people, every game has cheaters and they ruin the fun.
Keep in mind, not all cheaters are stupid fools, some of them can think and if the admin go spectator, they stop cheating...you don't need to be the Albert Einstein to do that... To bad there is no LAW to stop the aholes who made this cheats/hacks, they must be in jail.
<!--quoteo(post=1718192:date=Jul 20 2009, 02:16 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Jul 20 2009, 02:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718192"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To bad there is no LAW to stop the aholes who made this cheats/hacks, they must be in jail.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya i'm sure that such a LAW could be manipulated and abused into a loophole for circumventing the constitution. Maybe it will finally allow for legal warrantless search and seizure on a massive scale. Where you are required to use a Microsoft operating system with software which permits perfect external monitoring of your files and traffic. Yes linux and Apple would become illegal and anyone caught connecting to the internet with it can be sent to prison because it will lack the law-enforced privacy-removal tools.
At some point all old computer technology will be considered illegal for it's subversive capabilities. Computer programming without a license will also be restricted, and god help you if you try to reverse engineer a game.
You can imagine all privately owned firearms and ammunition would be considered illegal to own... practically terroristic.
At some point shortly after, a civil war would result because their'd be enough people in most of the Western states combined to form a capable resistance. Maybe that's why the government keeps the national guard deployed so much. They want the transition to 100% control to occur unnoticed. Someone on ATS predicted that UN soldiers would be seen on your streets... New World Order.
Hell we don't need to invent terminators and evil AI to allow for the events in the new terminator movie... we just need to invent some new computer/internet laws to get the party started.
devicenullJoin Date: 2003-04-30Member: 15967Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1718192:date=Jul 20 2009, 03:16 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Jul 20 2009, 03:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718192"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To bad there is no LAW to stop the aholes who made this cheats/hacks, they must be in jail.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Out of all the issues in our world right now, you've chosen cheating in online games to be the one that we need a law against?
<!--quoteo(post=1716762:date=Jul 10 2009, 02:25 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Jul 10 2009, 02:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716762"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Overall... <b>NS is not a competetitive game... </b>it's far to hard for marines for that to occur... people just play for fun and to play around in marine start and readyroom... not for kills... (only siege maps are competitive)... i don't think it even matters if it turns into a hack fest... how much could it be corrupted from what we know of NS which is a game where you die in 3 seconds anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you serious ? I stopped reading your argumentation there. NS <b>is</b> a competitive game, for years. Many leagues (one remains, ENSL) and a lot of people was playing it for the competition. Don't tell me, you're the kind of player who only plays co_ and siege maps, right ?
Btw, I know at least 2 competitive players who used some wallhacks, and yes, it's a huge advantage for them.
<!--quoteo(post=1718399:date=Jul 21 2009, 09:09 AM:name=Orox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Orox @ Jul 21 2009, 09:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718399"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Btw, I know at least 2 competitive players who used some wallhacks, and yes, it's a huge advantage for them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well yeh, playing competetive certainly isn't any proof of clean play. In Starcraft quite a few very good players got busted by a new detection method maybe a year or two back. I think at least most of the detections were proven right back then.
Not that I'd believe anyone cheats in NS though, but it seems being good in a game doesn't ensure clean play all by itself.
Comments
Yes but a lot of people have laptops and only use laptops... and even more don't use a mouse with their laptop... but still play first person shooters.
Some use game controllers. My laptop should be able to handle NS2 if it can handle all the other HL2 mods and run Doom 3 smooth as silk... and it was a "cheap" notebook computer... so their will be a lot of other people with more then capable laptops playing NS2. I just figure we cater to the majority, or rather the future of gaming.
I just don't see why you'd actually want a feature like that in a game like this. Who plays an FPS on the pc with a gamepad rather than a mouse and keyboard? I've never seen anyone do that before. Even people I know that hardly play games, prefer a mouse over a gamepad for FPS games on the PC.
It just doesn't make sense. Adding a feature like that will only hurt the majority of people that plan on playing the game.
I just don't see why you'd actually want a feature like that in a game like this. Who plays an FPS on the pc with a gamepad rather than a mouse and keyboard? I've never seen anyone do that before. Even people I know that hardly play games, prefer a mouse over a gamepad for FPS games on the PC.
It just doesn't make sense. Adding a feature like that will only hurt the majority of people that plan on playing the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes but the developers of NS2 want to make something that appeals to "casual" gamers... that doesn't sound like they are targeting "hardcore gamers". And that they want to focus more on the RTS (commander) aspect of the game instead of the first person combat... NS2 doesn't sound like the game you or me want to play lol
And the devs want to make a successful game. Something that appeals to casuals but is also balanced for competitive play... I believe they want to be similar to StarCraft in regards to those goals.
I'll admit to having coded cheats before, to see if I could. In all the research I did on it, I couldn't find anyone talking about just enabling the built in auto-aim, since it's better in a few ways to just write your own.
The actual logic behind an aimbot is fairly simple. Getting your code injected and locating the proper functions that you need to hook/call is a bit harder.
In NS2, I predict cheats will attempt to bypass any controls that prevent the client from running unsigned or otherwise unauthenticated code. That would be my first step, since why deal with hooking and ###### like that, when you can just run Lua code on the client.
The actual logic behind an aimbot is fairly simple. Getting your code injected and locating the proper functions that you need to hook/call is a bit harder.
In NS2, I predict cheats will attempt to bypass any controls that prevent the client from running unsigned or otherwise unauthenticated code. That would be my first step, since why deal with hooking and ###### like that, when you can just run Lua code on the client.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm their's probably no lua-exposed function for direct control of the mouse (although their should be because it allows for more interesting recoiling effects etc).
They say their using some custom interpreter to the lua virtual machine (or whatever it's called). What that means is they just manipulated it's back end to better expose it to debuggers or the game, etc. So their's no reason it can't execute pure lua code.
LMAO <a href="http://forum.zomgstuff.net/showthread.php?t=4156" target="_blank">http://forum.zomgstuff.net/showthread.php?t=4156</a>
What do you know... it is possible to script aimbots in lua... lmao. I bet it's even possible for some servers to install aimbots on your system in the form of lua files :D
And of course one black armor thread every week.
fixt
They call me touchpad Tane!
it would be nice to hear something from uw about it.
i think all of us could remember the great ideas and start of S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
or take a look at CRYSIS, after two days there where aimbots speedhacks
no clip etc in multiplayer and they NEVER got fixed or banned.
i would be very disappointed if there would be no official comment on this topic!
it would be nice to hear something from uw about it.
i think all of us could remember the great ideas and start of S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
or take a look at CRYSIS, after two days there where aimbots speedhacks
no clip etc in multiplayer and they NEVER got fixed or banned.
i would be very disappointed if there would be no official comment on this topic!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lets put it this way... their currently isn't a NS2 for people to cheat in because the devs didn't even get done with a Alpha... lets wait till after it's a tolerable problem that can be ignored by playing on good servers with good people. I mean how often is hacking a problem when you play NS1 right now? Probably never a factor. Or it's 100% never noticed because of how the game plays.
Cheating wasn't that much of a problem in NS, however the occasional alien/aimbot/speedhack combo causes devastation once in a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The good thing is, UWE just release the game with open lua, not open engine.
But cheaters everywhere, no way to protect from them or stop them.
There are some few smart cheaters, who only cheat sometime, so no body notice that...no way to stop that sick people, maybe some need to kill them...ingame.
The best way is to ban them, i wish UWE create a feature for the engine, to find that cheaters and ban them from every server, but i am sure UWE can't do that, they have not the resources. :(
So admins watch our for that bad people, every game has cheaters and they ruin the fun.
Keep in mind, not all cheaters are stupid fools, some of them can think and if the admin go spectator, they stop cheating...you don't need to be the Albert Einstein to do that...
To bad there is no LAW to stop the aholes who made this cheats/hacks, they must be in jail.
Ya i'm sure that such a LAW could be manipulated and abused into a loophole for circumventing the constitution. Maybe it will finally allow for legal warrantless search and seizure on a massive scale. Where you are required to use a Microsoft operating system with software which permits perfect external monitoring of your files and traffic. Yes linux and Apple would become illegal and anyone caught connecting to the internet with it can be sent to prison because it will lack the law-enforced privacy-removal tools.
At some point all old computer technology will be considered illegal for it's subversive capabilities. Computer programming without a license will also be restricted, and god help you if you try to reverse engineer a game.
You can imagine all privately owned firearms and ammunition would be considered illegal to own... practically terroristic.
At some point shortly after, a civil war would result because their'd be enough people in most of the Western states combined to form a capable resistance. Maybe that's why the government keeps the national guard deployed so much. They want the transition to 100% control to occur unnoticed. Someone on ATS predicted that UN soldiers would be seen on your streets... New World Order.
Hell we don't need to invent terminators and evil AI to allow for the events in the new terminator movie... we just need to invent some new computer/internet laws to get the party started.
Out of all the issues in our world right now, you've chosen cheating in online games to be the one that we need a law against?
Wow... just... wow...
Are you serious ? I stopped reading your argumentation there. NS <b>is</b> a competitive game, for years. Many leagues (one remains, ENSL) and a lot of people was playing it for the competition. Don't tell me, you're the kind of player who only plays co_ and siege maps, right ?
Btw, I know at least 2 competitive players who used some wallhacks, and yes, it's a huge advantage for them.
Well yeh, playing competetive certainly isn't any proof of clean play. In Starcraft quite a few very good players got busted by a new detection method maybe a year or two back. I think at least most of the detections were proven right back then.
Not that I'd believe anyone cheats in NS though, but it seems being good in a game doesn't ensure clean play all by itself.