AbraWould you kindlyJoin Date: 2003-08-17Member: 19870Members
<!--quoteo(post=1719390:date=Jul 26 2009, 01:42 PM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (X_Stickman @ Jul 26 2009, 01:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1719390"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->From the descriptions I've read, it sounds less like an "MMO" and more like a reguar FPS ladder/competition.
Even the "60 v 60" fights is just split up into 5-6 different battles of "8-12 v 8-12".
That sounds fairly cheap. It's just a regular FPS with some integrated ladder and RPG character development. It sounds boring, frankly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is why the game will die out quickly. No sense of a greater picture if it's just instances or what you want to call them.
<!--quoteo(post=1719398:date=Jul 26 2009, 08:12 AM:name=Abra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Abra @ Jul 26 2009, 08:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1719398"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is why the game will die out quickly. No sense of a greater picture if it's just instances or what you want to call them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm doubtful that it will surpass the epic battles of Tribes 2 or Planetside but it will provide a good distraction until games of that that level of quality show up again. Games like NS2, for example.
All people who unsubbed can play free until Aug 26th I believe.
" PlanetSide Customer Service Notification
Greetings Soldier of Auraxis!
In the interest in maintaining a high level of competition and gameplay within the three empires of PlanetSide®, the Werner server will be merged into the Gemini server on August 25, 2009.
Starting today, as a part of a select group of past PlanetSide players, you will be able to log in for free* until August 26, 2009!
Preserve your Legacy! After the merge, many character names will be duplicated, and priority will be given to players who have logged in most recently and to those who created their names first. (See below for name change details.)
As a thank you to our loyal PlanetSide players, special merits will be given to native Werner players to represent your past server. Characters will receive their merits upon logging in to Gemini for the first time after the server merge is complete.
If you haven't played in a while come check out what's new in PlanetSide! Experience elevated battles and more competitive play! "
Also is this just another game like TDM unreal/quake where you have to shoot the enemies "<i>20 times</i>" before they die, due to armor powerup thingies? Not to mention randomly jumping around attacking anything that comes into your FOV. I hate those kind of games!
Are there for example tactical movement options like outflanking an enemy to take full advantage of their blindspot, due to them not keeping an eye on their flanks. Or is it what I fear it is, just a random fragfest?
Also is this just another game like TDM unreal/quake where you have to shoot the enemies "<i>20 times</i>" before they die, due to armor powerup thingies? Not to mention randomly jumping around attacking anything that comes into your FOV. I hate those kind of games!
Are there for example tactical movement options like outflanking an enemy to take full advantage of their blindspot, due to them not keeping an eye on their flanks. Or is it what I fear it is, just a random fragfest?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh, Unreal and Quake have just as much outflanking as any other game. It's not like in Quake when you get shot from behind you get a do-over chance. Flanking is just as important in a fragfest as it is in Rainbow 6 or something.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2009
Of course they have outflanking. But in the tight environments the battles take place. It usually turns outflanking into randomly running into other players wearing down each others armor points though. Even TDM is nothing more of a "hey you're on my team, but we're still all lone wolves", there's no real push to play as a team, because they only take your weapons and upgrades anyways!
My question still stands, is this like DM/TDM in unreal/quake style, including armor wear down combat vs players. Or "something completely different" :D
Oh and another question. They talk about combat in a persistent world (AKA no battlegrounds, good of course). But does this mean that if your group of buddies is not big enough you cannot really compete vs the large groups/guilds? :( 10 vs 10 group battle and then a group that has 80 players comes along and wipes both groups of 10 of the map? Kinda gank-haven gameplay me thinks...
Wouldn't it be cool if there is a large group that dominates a region, while you with your small group are renegades fighting with guerrillas tactics to try and overthrow their reign of supremacy... C'est impossible :( ?
k. just viewed the interview on gametrailers. separate maps with separate teams that achieve separate missions... sounds a lot like instanced battles, not this realtime persistent thing that MMO is. Meh I'm bored already with this wide range of info that seem to contradict each other o.O" But somehow still seem to like the engy sentry guy (robotics?) and the cloaking sword spy guy that can blow up the engy's (robotics guy) stuff. <b>Is it me or is this game borrowing a lot of TF2 stuff?</b> <i>-medic, engy, heavy, sniper, spy, demoman, scout, soldier and (pyro) all seem to be present in some form on the video's en screenshots...</i>
Gah I tend to rant if I do not know enough about a game, while it seems interesting on one hand it seems quite generic on the other hand :(
All the battles are instanced. You have a jet pack so I imagine flanking is as easy as flying over the enemy's head. It's Quake/Unreal/Half-Life/Half-Life 2/Starsiege: Tribes/Call of Duty/Counterstrike/Day of Defeat/The Specialists/Natural Selection/Doom style fighting where you hurt the enemy's hitpoints, yes. I think it's a little odd to criticise a game for that. There is a "push" to play as a team because some people are medics who can heal you and some are techs who can drop shields for you and some are snipers who can snipe far away enemies for you and so on. If you want to be a lone wolf idiot I guess you can though. No game has figured out how to stop that one yet. I guess that's why clans were invented. The world is persistent. This means that it sticks around. Agencies fight against each other to gain territory. This doesn't mean it's all one big battlefield. I don't know where you drew that conclusion but they aren't giving out conflicting information.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Just read their FAQ and stuff, seems I was indeed misinformed about it all being one world, but then again when PVP is concerned even almighty WoW is not a MMO! A game that contains most things of all games known to man, interesting indeed...
To be honest, I've dreamed of turning a lot of games into something like this. It's just kind of adding a more focused metagaming aspect. I find the distinction between instanced and MMO a bit weird. I realize that dynamically loading areas and other players on the fly around you is engrossing, but in terms of a persistent world that has locations to capture, it makes no difference.
I would say that if this game is done right, it will most certainly not be classic DM/TDM gameplay. Classic DM is about routes, item denial, item hording or some combination thereof. The biggest problem with most "strategic" shooters were you're supposed to complete an objective is that it's most often easier to just kill the other team.
The one thing I will give you about instances vs dynamic loading is that there has been nothing in my experience like a 20 or 30 tank spearhead rolling between bases in Planetside.
Gunships and fighters wheeling through the air, dodging flak shells that fill the sky like deadly fireworks. As tanks pile into the courtyard of the besieged Tech Facility, wave after wave of infantry storm through the doors, the electronic locks hastily bypassed by trained hackers. But inside, the opposition is thick, and a hail of gunfire cuts down the first wave while plasma grenades bathe the second wave in green fire. Two huge aircraft appear overhead disgorging their cargo, and 22 troops, four of them encased in the hard shells of Mobile Armored Exosuits, freefall towards the roof. Moments before impact the force fields surrounding them kick into effect and cushion the landing. "GAL DROP" someone yells, and the defenders surge back to meet the new attackers as the troops by the front door renew their efforts. The rooftop attackers have now taken the facility's command console, and the fifteen minute countdown until it switches sides has begun. But in the stairwells and the corridors, the fight rages on, and defenders continue to respawn deep in the bowels of the building. Suddenly the lights wink out, and the combatants are bathed in the eerie red glow of the emergency illumination. An infiltrator has blown the generator! The spawn tubes are without power! Defenders trigger their Surge implants, racing to the basement and the equipment lockers - the Equipment Terminals having lost power as well. Grabbing repair tools from their stash they make for the generator to complete emergency repairs, and soon the lights are back on. Yet the sounds of battle come ever closer, the attackers are pressing in from all sides. A last defender spawns and instantly perishes in a hailstorm of bullets as the attackers destroy the spawn tubes, finally bringing the tidal wave of respawning defenders to an end. The battle is won. The war rages on.
Planetside could be like that. You just don't get that kind of action in 10v10.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
edited July 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1719819:date=Jul 28 2009, 06:35 PM:name=Rob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rob @ Jul 28 2009, 06:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1719819"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To be honest, I've dreamed of turning a lot of games into something like this. It's just kind of adding a more focused metagaming aspect. I find the distinction between instanced and MMO a bit weird. I realize that dynamically loading areas and other players on the fly around you is engrossing, but in terms of a persistent world that has locations to capture, it makes no difference.
I would say that if this game is done right, it will most certainly not be classic DM/TDM gameplay. Classic DM is about routes, item denial, item hording or some combination thereof. The biggest problem with most "strategic" shooters were you're supposed to complete an objective is that it's most often easier to just kill the other team.
The one thing I will give you about instances vs dynamic loading is that there has been nothing in my experience like a 20 or 30 tank spearhead rolling between bases in Planetside.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To me it's that it's simply not "massively" multiplayer, and I know a lot of people oppose this particular view (which I hold of Guild Wars too), but I simply don't see it. I see the "multiplayer" part, I see the "online" part, I see the "shooter" part. I don't see the "massively". It's a series of 10-per-side matches with the results relating to each other, basically like a fancy game ladder. It's "just" another online shooter.
That's not to say that it'll necessarily be *bad*, I just get inordinately annoyed at their improper (to me) usage of the "MMO" prefix.
*EDIT*
Also, Lolf's post was beautiful. It accurately captures the true beauty and excitement of Planetside, at least back when it was decently populated.
You don't need to tell me how awesome Planetside can be. I remember defending a hilltop between an air tower and the base we were trying to hack with about 20 other guys as NC. There was a long gentle down slope to the tower, and TR respawns were moving at in us just huge waves. We had one of those mobile spawns (AMS?) and that was about it, but there weren't too many others inside the base, so we were kind of the last line of defense, so to speak. We actually had a CR5 in charge of the main spearhead and other CR5 in charge of air support. I sent a tell to the air support guy, and within a few minutes Mosquitoes and Reavers were all over the tower. It was incredible feeling. Finally the hack finished and TR retreated to the next base.
I'm just saying that in the sense that massively could be defined as "a lot of players influence the game world," an instanced game can fit the bill just fine. You're combat will just be more like CS or maybe UT2k3 or something.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
But extending that logic (to an admittedly absurd extreme) you could claim that any online FPS is an MMO due to the fact that it's balanced according to how the majority of the players play, i.e., the players influence the game itself.
Not any FPS I suppose, but didn't Counter-Strike introduce a system that dynamically adjusts equipment prices based on a fake "supply and demand" model across all the server all over the world? Whoa, suddenly CS is an MMO! No, I'm with Stick here. Unless I can barge in on their little 10v10 cluster###### and carpet-bomb the ###### ###### out of everyone while laughing madly with my squadmates over teamspeak, it's just not an MMOFPS.
Semantics aside, if combat really IS more like CS or UT or something, I'm just going to play those and save myself a monthly fee that I see no point in. I pay monthly fees for MMOs because they offer me huge, sprawling, bandwidth-gobbling worlds where I can suddenly run across fifty people ganging up on a giant mutant monster made of concrete blocks and twisted scrap (City of Heroes) or where I can engage in large-scale vehicular and infantry warfare (that's Planetside, but WoW is trying their hand at it now with rather limited success), etc. etc. If I get the same experience that I can get on a 20-man server in any FPS, I'm not paying monthly for it. Hell, I can even understand that people say Guild Wars is no MMO - all other arguments aside, they're not asking for a monthly fee.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1719849:date=Jul 28 2009, 05:11 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Jul 28 2009, 05:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1719849"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not any FPS I suppose, but didn't Counter-Strike introduce a system that dynamically adjusts equipment prices based on a fake "supply and demand" model across all the server all over the world? Whoa, suddenly CS is an MMO! No, I'm with Stick here. Unless I can barge in on their little 10v10 cluster###### and carpet-bomb the ###### ###### out of everyone while laughing madly with my squadmates over teamspeak, it's just not an MMOFPS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Can't really argue with logic like that.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1719851:date=Jul 28 2009, 05:21 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Jul 28 2009, 05:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1719851"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Quick heads-up: I amended my post after locallyunscene quoted it. Don't just read his quote, make sure you get the complete package.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I wasn't being sarcastic.
Didn't think you were, I just wanted to make sure the point I made in the second half was heard as well. Because I think it carries more weight. Who cares if it's a proper MMO or not as long as it's fun, right? Well, if it has a monthly subscription, I do.
I gotta tell you, I got selected for the beta and I must say the game is VERY impressive. I really enjoyed the FPS/TPS aspects of the game as well as the MMO aspects such as leveling.
I thought the game was great fun, though some of the maps need tweaking.
I'm really looking forward to the next beta as well as its ultimate release. Hell, I even joined an agency already who seem to have some really solid players.
I see some of you are turned off by monthly payment.
To those of you, have a look at their <a href="http://forum.globalagendagame.com/gablog/index.php/2009/10/20/global-agenda-pricing-details-announced/" target="_blank"> payment system</a>! <3 :D
while this is bumped, I've got some quick questions. Dunno if there's an NDA for you beta people.
Is the FPS combat twitched based? If so, is it as twitch heavy as something like Quake/UT?
Are the instances locked to certain player limits and if so what are those limits? Do you find it's more small clans fighting or big (I'll define big as anything about 8v8) pubs?
Does this feel like planetside?
How does the skill vs. gear factor work out?
/edited to remove questions i learned the answer to
<!--quoteo(post=1734000:date=Oct 25 2009, 08:38 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Oct 25 2009, 08:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1734000"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->8v8 is big?!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I define 'big' at the point in which your actions start to matter less due to how many players are on the server. From my past experiences, I consider that to be above/around an 8v8.
<!--quoteo(post=1734014:date=Oct 25 2009, 09:55 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Oct 25 2009, 09:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1734014"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's an odd definition of big. In Planetside, I have seen base sieges with 40 or more players on each side broken by the actions of a single man.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The single man who crashed the server.
Comments
Planetside was an MMOFPS. This one is a series of regular FPS matches loosely connected.
Even the "60 v 60" fights is just split up into 5-6 different battles of "8-12 v 8-12".
That sounds fairly cheap. It's just a regular FPS with some integrated ladder and RPG character development. It sounds boring, frankly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is why the game will die out quickly. No sense of a greater picture if it's just instances or what you want to call them.
I'm doubtful that it will surpass the epic battles of Tribes 2 or Planetside but it will provide a good distraction until games of that that level of quality show up again. Games like NS2, for example.
/me crosses fingers and hopes he gets in the beta!
All people who unsubbed can play free until Aug 26th I believe.
"
PlanetSide Customer Service Notification
Greetings Soldier of Auraxis!
In the interest in maintaining a high level of competition and gameplay within the three empires of PlanetSide®, the Werner server will be merged into the Gemini server on August 25, 2009.
Starting today, as a part of a select group of past PlanetSide players, you will be able to log in for free* until August 26, 2009!
Preserve your Legacy! After the merge, many character names will be duplicated, and priority will be given to players who have logged in most recently and to those who created their names first. (See below for name change details.)
As a thank you to our loyal PlanetSide players, special merits will be given to native Werner players to represent your past server. Characters will receive their merits upon logging in to Gemini for the first time after the server merge is complete.
If you haven't played in a while come check out what's new in PlanetSide! Experience elevated battles and more competitive play!
"
Maybe I'll put up a torrent...
Also is this just another game like TDM unreal/quake where you have to shoot the enemies "<i>20 times</i>" before they die, due to armor powerup thingies? Not to mention randomly jumping around attacking anything that comes into your FOV. I hate those kind of games!
Are there for example tactical movement options like outflanking an enemy to take full advantage of their blindspot, due to them not keeping an eye on their flanks. Or is it what I fear it is, just a random fragfest?
Also is this just another game like TDM unreal/quake where you have to shoot the enemies "<i>20 times</i>" before they die, due to armor powerup thingies? Not to mention randomly jumping around attacking anything that comes into your FOV. I hate those kind of games!
Are there for example tactical movement options like outflanking an enemy to take full advantage of their blindspot, due to them not keeping an eye on their flanks. Or is it what I fear it is, just a random fragfest?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, Unreal and Quake have just as much outflanking as any other game. It's not like in Quake when you get shot from behind you get a do-over chance. Flanking is just as important in a fragfest as it is in Rainbow 6 or something.
My question still stands, is this like DM/TDM in unreal/quake style, including armor wear down combat vs players. Or "something completely different" :D
Oh and another question. They talk about combat in a persistent world (AKA no battlegrounds, good of course). But does this mean that if your group of buddies is not big enough you cannot really compete vs the large groups/guilds? :( 10 vs 10 group battle and then a group that has 80 players comes along and wipes both groups of 10 of the map? Kinda gank-haven gameplay me thinks...
Wouldn't it be cool if there is a large group that dominates a region, while you with your small group are renegades fighting with guerrillas tactics to try and overthrow their reign of supremacy... C'est impossible :( ?
k. just viewed the interview on gametrailers. separate maps with separate teams that achieve separate missions... sounds a lot like instanced battles, not this realtime persistent thing that MMO is. Meh I'm bored already with this wide range of info that seem to contradict each other o.O" But somehow still seem to like the engy sentry guy (robotics?) and the cloaking sword spy guy that can blow up the engy's (robotics guy) stuff. <b>Is it me or is this game borrowing a lot of TF2 stuff?</b> <i>-medic, engy, heavy, sniper, spy, demoman, scout, soldier and (pyro) all seem to be present in some form on the video's en screenshots...</i>
Gah I tend to rant if I do not know enough about a game, while it seems interesting on one hand it seems quite generic on the other hand :(
I would say that if this game is done right, it will most certainly not be classic DM/TDM gameplay. Classic DM is about routes, item denial, item hording or some combination thereof. The biggest problem with most "strategic" shooters were you're supposed to complete an objective is that it's most often easier to just kill the other team.
The one thing I will give you about instances vs dynamic loading is that there has been nothing in my experience like a 20 or 30 tank spearhead rolling between bases in Planetside.
Two huge aircraft appear overhead disgorging their cargo, and 22 troops, four of them encased in the hard shells of Mobile Armored Exosuits, freefall towards the roof. Moments before impact the force fields surrounding them kick into effect and cushion the landing. "GAL DROP" someone yells, and the defenders surge back to meet the new attackers as the troops by the front door renew their efforts. The rooftop attackers have now taken the facility's command console, and the fifteen minute countdown until it switches sides has begun.
But in the stairwells and the corridors, the fight rages on, and defenders continue to respawn deep in the bowels of the building. Suddenly the lights wink out, and the combatants are bathed in the eerie red glow of the emergency illumination. An infiltrator has blown the generator! The spawn tubes are without power! Defenders trigger their Surge implants, racing to the basement and the equipment lockers - the Equipment Terminals having lost power as well. Grabbing repair tools from their stash they make for the generator to complete emergency repairs, and soon the lights are back on. Yet the sounds of battle come ever closer, the attackers are pressing in from all sides. A last defender spawns and instantly perishes in a hailstorm of bullets as the attackers destroy the spawn tubes, finally bringing the tidal wave of respawning defenders to an end. The battle is won. The war rages on.
Planetside could be like that. You just don't get that kind of action in 10v10.
I would say that if this game is done right, it will most certainly not be classic DM/TDM gameplay. Classic DM is about routes, item denial, item hording or some combination thereof. The biggest problem with most "strategic" shooters were you're supposed to complete an objective is that it's most often easier to just kill the other team.
The one thing I will give you about instances vs dynamic loading is that there has been nothing in my experience like a 20 or 30 tank spearhead rolling between bases in Planetside.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To me it's that it's simply not "massively" multiplayer, and I know a lot of people oppose this particular view (which I hold of Guild Wars too), but I simply don't see it.
I see the "multiplayer" part, I see the "online" part, I see the "shooter" part. I don't see the "massively". It's a series of 10-per-side matches with the results relating to each other, basically like a fancy game ladder. It's "just" another online shooter.
That's not to say that it'll necessarily be *bad*, I just get inordinately annoyed at their improper (to me) usage of the "MMO" prefix.
*EDIT*
Also, Lolf's post was beautiful. It accurately captures the true beauty and excitement of Planetside, at least back when it was decently populated.
I'm just saying that in the sense that massively could be defined as "a lot of players influence the game world," an instanced game can fit the bill just fine. You're combat will just be more like CS or maybe UT2k3 or something.
Semantics aside, if combat really IS more like CS or UT or something, I'm just going to play those and save myself a monthly fee that I see no point in. I pay monthly fees for MMOs because they offer me huge, sprawling, bandwidth-gobbling worlds where I can suddenly run across fifty people ganging up on a giant mutant monster made of concrete blocks and twisted scrap (City of Heroes) or where I can engage in large-scale vehicular and infantry warfare (that's Planetside, but WoW is trying their hand at it now with rather limited success), etc. etc.
If I get the same experience that I can get on a 20-man server in any FPS, I'm not paying monthly for it. Hell, I can even understand that people say Guild Wars is no MMO - all other arguments aside, they're not asking for a monthly fee.
Can't really argue with logic like that.
/me cri.
I wasn't being sarcastic.
I thought the game was great fun, though some of the maps need tweaking.
I'm really looking forward to the next beta as well as its ultimate release. Hell, I even joined an agency already who seem to have some really solid players.
<a href="http://www.cyberneticpunks.com" target="_blank">http://www.cyberneticpunks.com</a>
I recommend people signing up for the next beta.
I see some of you are turned off by monthly payment.
To those of you, have a look at their <a href="http://forum.globalagendagame.com/gablog/index.php/2009/10/20/global-agenda-pricing-details-announced/" target="_blank"> payment system</a>! <3 :D
Is the FPS combat twitched based? If so, is it as twitch heavy as something like Quake/UT?
Are the instances locked to certain player limits and if so what are those limits? Do you find it's more small clans fighting or big (I'll define big as anything about 8v8) pubs?
Does this feel like planetside?
How does the skill vs. gear factor work out?
/edited to remove questions i learned the answer to
I define 'big' at the point in which your actions start to matter less due to how many players are on the server. From my past experiences, I consider that to be above/around an 8v8.
The single man who crashed the server.