I find the role reversal in this thread as its evolved highly amusing.
Anyhoo, the number of post for, against and neutral are hardly relevant. People have raised concerns, others have argued against these (quite validly) if they don't think they necessarily apply. The devs will presumably only remove it if they think the points raised by those concerned are good ones, and not otherwise. How the overall community feels isn't really the point when deciding if a gameplay change is a good idea.
(( As I've said before, I don't think that the taser - or whatever you'd want to call it - actually fulfils the goals set out by UWE for it's implimentation in it's current form (in fact I don't think the nature of taking down structures can be significantly changed), and am also concerned it's not industrial feeling enough for the TSA. However I don't think that it couldn't be made to work, but I believe it would need some redesigns, e.g. better grip for using as melee, simplification of the secondary fire function (not the melee), and make sure the electrical effects aren't too shiny and pure, for starters ))
I'd like to reiterate that I, like the majority of nay-sayers (I'm guessing), aren't resisting change altogether, rather the change offered. Consider the flamethrower - only serious pyrophobes would resist something that cool, scorching a map room by room and purging the aliens sounds pretty damn sweet. Was the addition of a flamethrower a change? Sure was. Not much whining there huh.
A new weapon, a combo weapon even, is a cool idea. A taser? Not so much. Fresh ideas are excellent and necessary for NS2 to be original in its own right. But a taser is so UT3-esque that its almost nauseating - the whole ultra-futuristic (inb4 "omg NS2 is in the future" - read on) and 'excessive' nature of UT3 weapons can be seen in the taser (compared to the other rine weaps). NS2 is in the future, but it doesn't make sense with regards to the other weapons they field. All the rest of the marine's weapons are based on munitions of some kind (bullets, grenades, flammable propellant) - why all of a sudden does a non-munition weapon drop in to say hi? Inconsistent if you ask me...
There's a really interesting point that's being missed here... and that's the duality of knife/pistol being in most fps games yet iconic in NS. It seems like both can't be true, but they really are.
In most fps games I've played, the side arms are only brought out when you've depleted your main weapon's ammunition... while in NS we can all think of times when we've taken out our pistol or knife for the better aim or limitless slashing respectively. Side arms are especially important in NS because they're your trusty albeit weak last resort. When the shotgun or hmg runs out of ammo, and it does thanks to some diligent dev balancing, there's a steep price to be paid.
At this point in most other fps games, they give you a decently damaging side arm. Killing Floor's pistol can hardly be considered weak compared to most zombies. TF2 gives out shotguns and decent pistols for secondary weapons and they don't take long to bring down an opponent. NS strands you with a pistol that you have to land most of the shots with just to kill the weakest enemy. To make things worse, you could deplete your pistol ammo and be even more SoL.
The taser idea doesn't remove this, but we do cling to our side arms a bit differently. If the taser has limitless ranged ammo, it removes much of the necessity of the melee option except for "griefing kills." That is, we've all been in the situation where we've run out of main ammo and pistol ammo and have to rely on the knife. It's a thrill, you'll probably die, but at least you know you didn't waste your ammo by dying with it.
I like the idea of the pistol losing its incredible aim... it's always felt wrong especially on marine vs marine maps where the only way to decently kill was to give up on the main weapons until a good five minutes of pistol sniping leveled everyone up. It's really amazing how far it can snipe, and even though that's not possible on a lot of NS levels, it still needs to have its accuracy affected like everything else.
I know a lot of my posts have been fairy poignant against the taser, and I'd like the devs to know that I'm trying to warn them against the problems I think they'll see. If they address those points well, then it could possibly do alright. Personally I think the knife and pistol with a couple nerfs (drop pistol's accuracy and make the knife use some kind of energy... perhaps the same pool as a sprinting feature) could do fine in NS2 especially if you add an alternate fire to keep them fresh.
Something I didn't note before is that there are buttons on top of the taser model. Get rid of those and let us believe that there are triggers or something we're hitting instantly. It feels like the combat incompetence of star trek weapons where they stand there poking at their weapon to make it do the right stuff while wasting precious time. You know how the extra guy in a red shirt always dies on star trek away missions? I'm betting if they stopped fiddling with their weapons mid-combat, they'd at least make it to a second mission.
In short: -no buttons -keep it gritty looking -though I'm a fan of it changing shapes, think about that again for quick-draw -possibly limit its ranged ammo/recharge time so that the melee aspect gets fair time -remember that weak yet versatile side arms were iconic in NS1 -avoid arcing lightning and other bad-ass effects for side arms -consider that we can suspend belief for bad physics if the gameplay is seamless -the click of an empty chamber is like a feeding call for aliens ("helplessness notification" if you will, and that was on the pistol too)
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
I would just like to add I think that the idea doesn't need to be scrapped outright either. I like the idea of innovating in this area and really like the suggestions of others to change the charging to constant ramping damage. This means aliens will see the RT as constantly under attack and be able to respond, and still leaves the marine vulnerable.
I think the weapon itself needs a new look and name. IMO It needs to be less elegant but more simple. Think more tesla coil, arc gun, corona discharge and less Van de Graaff generator, taser, stun gun.
I am going to against the trend here and suggest that a taser-like weapon is not entirely out of keeping with the Natural Selection universe. I'm not that well acquainted with the backstory, but i was under the impression that the TSA do more than just kill aliens.
They are a group designed to protect TSA assets. This may include doing things such as putting down worker riots at mines/installations, arresting dangerous people, protecting important ones, hunting spies etc. These are sorts of things tasers would be used for.
I think too many of you are picturing tasers from this century that stupid cops abuse stupid people with. Try and picture a skulk convulsing violently as your taser goes THUD THUD THUD THUD in its mouth and smoke comes out of where its eyes used to be....
<!--quoteo(post=1719778:date=Jul 28 2009, 02:55 PM:name=Kiopaen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kiopaen @ Jul 28 2009, 02:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1719778"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The taser idea doesn't remove this, but we do cling to our side arms a bit differently. If the taser has limitless ranged ammo, it removes much of the necessity of the melee option except for "griefing kills." That is, we've all been in the situation where we've run out of main ammo and pistol ammo and have to rely on the knife. It's a thrill, you'll probably die, but at least you know you didn't waste your ammo by dying with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This doesn't have to be the case. There are ways to limit the unlimited. Say, ranged taser attacks don't need any ammo, but they overheat the device pretty quickly leaving you completely defenceless, unable to use even melee taser attack. Melee taser attack wouldn't have this limitation. Heat level would drop with time, so after a short while you're ready to shoot again. I'm still not a fan of taser, but if it has to be implemented, I want it implemented right.
<!--QuoteBegin-'Someone Else'+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ('Someone Else')</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'd like to reiterate that I, like the majority of nay-sayers (I'm guessing), aren't resisting change altogether, rather the change offered. Consider the flamethrower - only serious pyrophobes would resist something that cool, scorching a map room by room and purging the aliens sounds pretty damn sweet. Was the addition of a flamethrower a change? Sure was. Not much whining there huh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I have concerns about flamethrower too. In some games flamethrower is an ok weapon, but it deals damage over time meaning you're pretty much dead even if you get in range and score a lot of hits. This is the case in Wolfenstein:Enemy Territory and RTCW. Now consider that a lot of alien lifeforms have Strong melee attacks and are fast. If flamethrower deals damage over time it will likely be weak and unused. It would have to be done in a more primitive way, like in Tremulous - screw damage over time, make it deal lots of raw damage.
This doesn't mean the majority likes taser. 47/173 are clearly positive about it, they may be more numerous group (47 versus 36) but they're actually in minority overall. That's the problem with american style voting - minority can force the majority to accept their terms. Be careful with statistics. To say that people with concerns and constructive criticism are a vocal minority is a gross understatement.
I hope the taser stays in long enough to see some beta testing. Thinking about it might not be enough to understand it. I'd like to hear what people have to say about it after frying some slimy alien membrane in-game.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
edited July 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1719789:date=Jul 28 2009, 10:50 AM:name=borsuk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (borsuk @ Jul 28 2009, 10:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1719789"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually I have concerns about flamethrower too. In some games flamethrower is an ok weapon, but it deals damage over time meaning you're pretty much dead even if you get in range and score a lot of hits. This is the case in Wolfenstein:Enemy Territory and RTCW. Now consider that a lot of alien lifeforms have Strong melee attacks and are fast. If flamethrower deals damage over time it will likely be weak and unused. It would have to be done in a more primitive way, like in Tremulous - screw damage over time, make it deal lots of raw damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's fine, the FT isn't supposed to be an anti-personnel weapon in NS2 but an anti-DI Weapon. It has a distinct purpose that it's suited for.
UW are on the right track dropping the knife, it doesn't sit very well anymore especially as the aliens have new adaptations such as bone armour. Hacking away at structures does seem silly, I'd rather blow them up or burn them down, an electrical arc does do the second one. The taser should maybe look more like an arc welder, be capable of only melee and the shield and have unlimited ammo. I like the idea that maybe when several marines attack a building (team work) the 'electrical arcs' can work together creating a damage multiplier and maybe this could be the case with melee too...
The pistol is fine, it works and I like it. Maybe it could have a cool new secondary function, maybe ironsights that can be upgraded to a scope or laser sighting (something to do with the res we earn/experience gained) this would make it personal to every marine although I realise that that would be adding work not taking it away for you guys. Maybe a community project who knows?
Keep going forward and ignore what I and everyone else says tho until at least the alpha/beta.
<!--quoteo(post=1719764:date=Jul 28 2009, 01:41 PM:name=todd1Ok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (todd1Ok @ Jul 28 2009, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1719764"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->every damn FPS game has a knife in it. name one that doesn't.
why cant you name any? cause they're crap. simple as.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doom I, Doom II, ... Quake, Quake 2, ... Painkiller, Duke Nukem, HALF-LIFE (all expect Opposing front).
Thats some I can name without scearching too much. And they are not so crap. Maybe you can count Goldeneye and Perfect Dark.
About the "Taser", I am ok with the idea "2in1" gun, but not with what you have done with it. Assuming that I have understood the "Taser" description, it looks like you wont be able to defend yourself with it. It's a sidearm, so you will use it when you are out of ammo. If it's like ns1, a skulk, or a lerk, can kill you very fast. About the "pistol side"(primary fire mode) of the "Taser", you will need to fire the darts (I don't know what happens if you miss, if there is a "reload time" or something like that, so I dont even know if you can shoot more than 1 ranged target if the others are not in the splash damage range, in a small amount of time), and then fire the electricity, wich will kill SLOWLY the alien. It means that you are dead. About the "knife side"(melee mode), if it's a constant damage over time, I think that it has very low damage over time, so it will be hard to kill something with, because the aliens are fast and have more range than you. At least with the ns1's knife you had a chance to kill low hp skulk, or even a lerk/fade before he goes away or if he did a mistake by approaching you too much. But with the "Taser" the low hp aliens wont fear you at all, because they just have to approach you, bite, run etc... and be able to get in your range without any threat.
Now about the range of the weapon (primary fire mode). I guess it's low, maybe medium range, like the lmg. Its means that you are without defence versus a skulk whose trying to parasite you or a lerk sporing you. And you cant finish a lerk/fade low hp from the other side of a room. All the things that made the pistol useful as a sidearm weapon BUT without making it BETTER than the primary weapon. It was useful in precise situations.
And, if I understood you UWE, you want us to feel the game like if both side had evolved between ns1 and ns2. So, even if it's not a pistol, Marines know that they NEED a small fast accurate weapon, one that they can carry all the time and switch fast to, for all the situations described before. There is no reason for them to let the aliens an advantage at long range.
About the concept art, I dont really like it, it looks too small and too WEAK, but we dont care.
I hope that you will read it and keep it in mind if you are strongly considering replacing it with the vanilla knife/pistol.
(my english isnt so good but you should understand)
<!--quoteo(post=1719777:date=Jul 28 2009, 02:35 PM:name=gotmuff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gotmuff @ Jul 28 2009, 02:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1719777"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to reiterate that I, like the majority of nay-sayers (I'm guessing), aren't resisting change altogether, rather the change offered. Consider the flamethrower - only serious pyrophobes would resist something that cool, scorching a map room by room and purging the aliens sounds pretty damn sweet. Was the addition of a flamethrower a change? Sure was. Not much whining there huh.
A new weapon, a combo weapon even, is a cool idea. A taser? Not so much. Fresh ideas are excellent and necessary for NS2 to be original in its own right. But a taser is so UT3-esque that its almost nauseating - the whole ultra-futuristic (inb4 "omg NS2 is in the future" - read on) and 'excessive' nature of UT3 weapons can be seen in the taser (compared to the other rine weaps). NS2 is in the future, but it doesn't make sense with regards to the other weapons they field. All the rest of the marine's weapons are based on munitions of some kind (bullets, grenades, flammable propellant) - why all of a sudden does a non-munition weapon drop in to say hi? Inconsistent if you ask me...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1719777:date=Jul 28 2009, 02:35 PM:name=gotmuff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gotmuff @ Jul 28 2009, 02:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1719777"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why all of a sudden does a non-munition weapon drop in to say hi? Inconsistent if you ask me...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because somewhere between the rechargeable jetpack and the phase gate technology, they got energy technology to spare...?
You're making real-world references when arguing against something that is set in the fictional future and on top of that obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
I would much rather have a taser than any knife when fighting a bear, even if it was non-lethal. The new NS2 sidearm isn't even a taser, so I don't know what you're complaining about.
In shorter words; It doesn't fit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah, well you just think it's electricity. In reality, it's a stream of highly energized nanites.
There. Now it's projectile based and all your concerns go away.
Seriously I really don't understand this crap about "It's not gritty enough!" That's not a problem with the weapon, that's your own preference for a visual style. Fortunately, UWE is being kind enough to present us the tools whereby we can modify the skins and stuff. So if you don't like the way something looks.. change it!
I wish people would start thinking about how this sidearm works in gameplay, and not how uber-cool they may or may not look wielding it, or whether the complete fiction that is the backstory can accomodate it (hint, good writers can make up fiction for anything). That's something you worry about well after Alpha is completed.
When addressing gameplay issues, we have a single item that works as a combination of a front-facing shield that causes damage, a front facing melee weapon, and a projectile weapon that will cause increasing damage over time - time varying based on target.
Keep the pistol and knife already in the NSA logo for a reason AND the new weapon modified ~ all happy.
Oh and don't worry about the new animations or whatever, just copypasta the kinematics if possible we love them or you always can put those in a patch later or something. Also don't worry about the release time we are all waiting patiently; better keep it up amazing. I'm pretty sure if you need more money we will be there for supporting you no matter what, just don't give us rainbow colored features / fast prototyping crap. Take your time, after all this is an art master piece. The entire gaming world is watching you. You guys freaking rock.
Suggesting to have both the new weapon and the old pistol/knife combo is a horrible idea. One of the reasons why they wanted to combine the two in the first place is to conserve resources. It's silly to create more work for themselves and be wasteful with money by providing all three.
My personal suggestion to the developers if they are torn is that wait before you create art for the sidearms and use placeholders for the alpha/beta to experiment with actual players. Use a reskinned LMG for the taser for example and if people like it, finalize the idea.
I would Keep the Pistol but make the Knife a electro vibro blade much like this <a href="http://starwarsrpg.pettycomp.net/Images/DualBladeSword.jpg" target="_blank">http://starwarsrpg.pettycomp.net/Images/DualBladeSword.jpg</a>. Make the blade do More damage to structures and a slowing ability for aliens hit by it. That way you might be be able to kill an alien but you will Wound/shock it so that other marines can kill it.
<!--quoteo(post=1719855:date=Jul 28 2009, 07:01 PM:name=Kwil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kwil @ Jul 28 2009, 07:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1719855"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fortunately, UWE is being kind enough to present us the tools whereby we can modify the skins and stuff. So if you don't like the way something looks.. change it!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think they would be whining about its appearance if they had the ability to change it. Unless they're that lazy that they won't even take their time to do something to replace it... Hell, just taking a few grunge & scratch brushes, 10 minutes of your time, and you end up with something that's "grittier" than what you began with.
You can't just go "But we can mod it" as a response to any expressed dislike... I'm fine with the taser, because I'm more interested in the gameplay than the presentation, but it <i>could be better</i>.
I think quite a few members here are averse to change. Look at it this way. If it quacks like a duck and shoots like an ICBM, then we have the best of both worlds.
I think what is meant about breaking monotony, is instead of holding down fire to slash it up close, you plow a node into the structure and it deals love.. err damage continuously.
The main issue involved with this pistol in NS1 was people brought out their pistol a lot more because it could get damage off quick enough and accurate enough to outpace the LMG. Instead, the sidearm (taser) would do a consistent amount of damage that's often less than your main cannon would do, but more effective against the stationary things, and a decent but not godlike backup. And in one way it would be better than a knife/pistol combo because you would not have any wait time for switching weapons.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can't just go "But we can mod it" as a response to any expressed dislike...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> People who say that might think that modding is simple, and that most servers would instantly start using that mod. First of all, some people want those things but would rather play the game than build one, and second, some people dislike servers that run mods, so if it was a really cool idea they might overlook it. The only way it would get into wide play would be if UkWs included it in an official patch or bonus pack.
Okay, now it was true that there were certain flaws to the knife and pistol combo in NS1, and many feel that the Taser concept doesn't fit in NS2, either due to theme or complexity of function. The fact is, there is a third option. I realize you guys are the ones doing the work here, but maybe just take another try at it. The taser isn't the only option available for reworking the backup ranged and melee weapons. I'm sure we can come up with something that works better.
Hand flamer with arc lighter. Apply fire to structures and scorch aliens with primary , stun aliens with a jab on secondary. But it might be too close to a welder concept.
The taser just feels unwieldy for some reason... Like, it looks like more of a scarecrow for lifeforms than anything. Maybe it's the idea we have when thinking about a 'taser' that ruins the concept. And I don't want wires between me and an alien, I just want to blast it into oblivion... Besides a wireless tazer already exists (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/owwwww!/video-of-xrep-wireless-taser-shotgun-shocking-some-dude-276481.php), but they already used that concept with the flare gun on TF2.
i say make the pistol and knife the default starter weapons with the ability to purchase the taser. Make the pistol weaker than in ns1. when purchased the taser should replace the pistol and give the marine the ability to destroy alien structures quickly. This will only be affective during the early stages of the game when weapons have low damage and no flamethrowers or grenade launchers are available. just my thoughts...
Comments
Anyhoo, the number of post for, against and neutral are hardly relevant. People have raised concerns, others have argued against these (quite validly) if they don't think they necessarily apply. The devs will presumably only remove it if they think the points raised by those concerned are good ones, and not otherwise. How the overall community feels isn't really the point when deciding if a gameplay change is a good idea.
(( As I've said before, I don't think that the taser - or whatever you'd want to call it - actually fulfils the goals set out by UWE for it's implimentation in it's current form (in fact I don't think the nature of taking down structures can be significantly changed), and am also concerned it's not industrial feeling enough for the TSA. However I don't think that it couldn't be made to work, but I believe it would need some redesigns, e.g. better grip for using as melee, simplification of the secondary fire function (not the melee), and make sure the electrical effects aren't too shiny and pure, for starters ))
A new weapon, a combo weapon even, is a cool idea. A taser? Not so much. Fresh ideas are excellent and necessary for NS2 to be original in its own right. But a taser is so UT3-esque that its almost nauseating - the whole ultra-futuristic (inb4 "omg NS2 is in the future" - read on) and 'excessive' nature of UT3 weapons can be seen in the taser (compared to the other rine weaps). NS2 is in the future, but it doesn't make sense with regards to the other weapons they field. All the rest of the marine's weapons are based on munitions of some kind (bullets, grenades, flammable propellant) - why all of a sudden does a non-munition weapon drop in to say hi? Inconsistent if you ask me...
In most fps games I've played, the side arms are only brought out when you've depleted your main weapon's ammunition... while in NS we can all think of times when we've taken out our pistol or knife for the better aim or limitless slashing respectively. Side arms are especially important in NS because they're your trusty albeit weak last resort. When the shotgun or hmg runs out of ammo, and it does thanks to some diligent dev balancing, there's a steep price to be paid.
At this point in most other fps games, they give you a decently damaging side arm. Killing Floor's pistol can hardly be considered weak compared to most zombies. TF2 gives out shotguns and decent pistols for secondary weapons and they don't take long to bring down an opponent. NS strands you with a pistol that you have to land most of the shots with just to kill the weakest enemy. To make things worse, you could deplete your pistol ammo and be even more SoL.
The taser idea doesn't remove this, but we do cling to our side arms a bit differently. If the taser has limitless ranged ammo, it removes much of the necessity of the melee option except for "griefing kills." That is, we've all been in the situation where we've run out of main ammo and pistol ammo and have to rely on the knife. It's a thrill, you'll probably die, but at least you know you didn't waste your ammo by dying with it.
I like the idea of the pistol losing its incredible aim... it's always felt wrong especially on marine vs marine maps where the only way to decently kill was to give up on the main weapons until a good five minutes of pistol sniping leveled everyone up. It's really amazing how far it can snipe, and even though that's not possible on a lot of NS levels, it still needs to have its accuracy affected like everything else.
I know a lot of my posts have been fairy poignant against the taser, and I'd like the devs to know that I'm trying to warn them against the problems I think they'll see. If they address those points well, then it could possibly do alright. Personally I think the knife and pistol with a couple nerfs (drop pistol's accuracy and make the knife use some kind of energy... perhaps the same pool as a sprinting feature) could do fine in NS2 especially if you add an alternate fire to keep them fresh.
Something I didn't note before is that there are buttons on top of the taser model. Get rid of those and let us believe that there are triggers or something we're hitting instantly. It feels like the combat incompetence of star trek weapons where they stand there poking at their weapon to make it do the right stuff while wasting precious time. You know how the extra guy in a red shirt always dies on star trek away missions? I'm betting if they stopped fiddling with their weapons mid-combat, they'd at least make it to a second mission.
In short:
-no buttons
-keep it gritty looking
-though I'm a fan of it changing shapes, think about that again for quick-draw
-possibly limit its ranged ammo/recharge time so that the melee aspect gets fair time
-remember that weak yet versatile side arms were iconic in NS1
-avoid arcing lightning and other bad-ass effects for side arms
-consider that we can suspend belief for bad physics if the gameplay is seamless
-the click of an empty chamber is like a feeding call for aliens ("helplessness notification" if you will, and that was on the pistol too)
I think the weapon itself needs a new look and name. IMO It needs to be less elegant but more simple. Think more tesla coil, arc gun, corona discharge and less Van de Graaff generator, taser, stun gun.
They are a group designed to protect TSA assets. This may include doing things such as putting down worker riots at mines/installations, arresting dangerous people, protecting important ones, hunting spies etc. These are sorts of things tasers would be used for.
I think too many of you are picturing tasers from this century that stupid cops abuse stupid people with. Try and picture a skulk convulsing violently as your taser goes THUD THUD THUD THUD in its mouth and smoke comes out of where its eyes used to be....
This doesn't have to be the case. There are ways to limit the unlimited. Say, ranged taser attacks don't need any ammo, but they overheat the device pretty quickly leaving you completely defenceless, unable to use even melee taser attack. Melee taser attack wouldn't have this limitation. Heat level would drop with time, so after a short while you're ready to shoot again.
I'm still not a fan of taser, but if it has to be implemented, I want it implemented right.
<!--QuoteBegin-'Someone Else'+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ('Someone Else')</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'd like to reiterate that I, like the majority of nay-sayers (I'm guessing), aren't resisting change altogether, rather the change offered. Consider the flamethrower - only serious pyrophobes would resist something that cool, scorching a map room by room and purging the aliens sounds pretty damn sweet. Was the addition of a flamethrower a change? Sure was. Not much whining there huh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I have concerns about flamethrower too. In some games flamethrower is an ok weapon, but it deals damage over time meaning you're pretty much dead even if you get in range and score a lot of hits. This is the case in Wolfenstein:Enemy Territory and RTCW. Now consider that a lot of alien lifeforms have Strong melee attacks and are fast. If flamethrower deals damage over time it will likely be weak and unused. It would have to be done in a more primitive way, like in Tremulous - screw damage over time, make it deal lots of raw damage.
<!--QuoteBegin-'Someone elsiest'+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ('Someone elsiest')</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->90 - Neutral
47 - Positive
36 - Negative
Total = 173<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This doesn't mean the majority likes taser. 47/173 are clearly positive about it, they may be more numerous group (47 versus 36) but they're actually in minority overall. That's the problem with american style voting - minority can force the majority to accept their terms. Be careful with statistics. To say that people with concerns and constructive criticism are a vocal minority is a gross understatement.
Colbert did a piece on tasers on his show last night (available on hulu or his site). starts around 5:00 and goes to about 9:24.
Enjoy!
That's fine, the FT isn't supposed to be an anti-personnel weapon in NS2 but an anti-DI Weapon. It has a distinct purpose that it's suited for.
The pistol is fine, it works and I like it. Maybe it could have a cool new secondary function, maybe ironsights that can be upgraded to a scope or laser sighting (something to do with the res we earn/experience gained) this would make it personal to every marine although I realise that that would be adding work not taking it away for you guys. Maybe a community project who knows?
Keep going forward and ignore what I and everyone else says tho until at least the alpha/beta.
why cant you name any? cause they're crap. simple as.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doom I, Doom II, ... Quake, Quake 2, ... Painkiller, Duke Nukem, HALF-LIFE (all expect Opposing front).
Thats some I can name without scearching too much. And they are not so crap. Maybe you can count Goldeneye and Perfect Dark.
About the "Taser", I am ok with the idea "2in1" gun, but not with what you have done with it. Assuming that I have understood the "Taser" description, it looks like you wont be able to defend yourself with it. It's a sidearm, so you will use it when you are out of ammo. If it's like ns1, a skulk, or a lerk, can kill you very fast. About the "pistol side"(primary fire mode) of the "Taser", you will need to fire the darts (I don't know what happens if you miss, if there is a "reload time" or something like that, so I dont even know if you can shoot more than 1 ranged target if the others are not in the splash damage range, in a small amount of time), and then fire the electricity, wich will kill SLOWLY the alien. It means that you are dead. About the "knife side"(melee mode), if it's a constant damage over time, I think that it has very low damage over time, so it will be hard to kill something with, because the aliens are fast and have more range than you. At least with the ns1's knife you had a chance to kill low hp skulk, or even a lerk/fade before he goes away or if he did a mistake by approaching you too much. But with the "Taser" the low hp aliens wont fear you at all, because they just have to approach you, bite, run etc... and be able to get in your range without any threat.
Now about the range of the weapon (primary fire mode). I guess it's low, maybe medium range, like the lmg. Its means that you are without defence versus a skulk whose trying to parasite you or a lerk sporing you. And you cant finish a lerk/fade low hp from the other side of a room. All the things that made the pistol useful as a sidearm weapon BUT without making it BETTER than the primary weapon. It was useful in precise situations.
And, if I understood you UWE, you want us to feel the game like if both side had evolved between ns1 and ns2. So, even if it's not a pistol, Marines know that they NEED a small fast accurate weapon, one that they can carry all the time and switch fast to, for all the situations described before. There is no reason for them to let the aliens an advantage at long range.
About the concept art, I dont really like it, it looks too small and too WEAK, but we dont care.
I hope that you will read it and keep it in mind if you are strongly considering replacing it with the vanilla knife/pistol.
(my english isnt so good but you should understand)
A new weapon, a combo weapon even, is a cool idea. A taser? Not so much. Fresh ideas are excellent and necessary for NS2 to be original in its own right. But a taser is so UT3-esque that its almost nauseating - the whole ultra-futuristic (inb4 "omg NS2 is in the future" - read on) and 'excessive' nature of UT3 weapons can be seen in the taser (compared to the other rine weaps). NS2 is in the future, but it doesn't make sense with regards to the other weapons they field. All the rest of the marine's weapons are based on munitions of some kind (bullets, grenades, flammable propellant) - why all of a sudden does a non-munition weapon drop in to say hi? Inconsistent if you ask me...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This.
In shorter words; It doesn't fit.
Because somewhere between the rechargeable jetpack and the phase gate technology, they got energy technology to spare...?
You're making real-world references when arguing against something that is set in the fictional future and on top of that obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
I would much rather have a taser than any knife when fighting a bear, even if it was non-lethal. The new NS2 sidearm isn't even a taser, so I don't know what you're complaining about.
Keep the new sidearm.
In shorter words; It doesn't fit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, well you just think it's electricity. In reality, it's a stream of highly energized nanites.
There. Now it's projectile based and all your concerns go away.
Seriously I really don't understand this crap about "It's not gritty enough!" That's not a problem with the weapon, that's your own preference for a visual style. Fortunately, UWE is being kind enough to present us the tools whereby we can modify the skins and stuff. So if you don't like the way something looks.. change it!
I wish people would start thinking about how this sidearm works in gameplay, and not how uber-cool they may or may not look wielding it, or whether the complete fiction that is the backstory can accomodate it (hint, good writers can make up fiction for anything). That's something you worry about well after Alpha is completed.
When addressing gameplay issues, we have a single item that works as a combination of a front-facing shield that causes damage, a front facing melee weapon, and a projectile weapon that will cause increasing damage over time - time varying based on target.
Oh and don't worry about the new animations or whatever, just copypasta the kinematics if possible we love them or you always can put those in a patch later or something. Also don't worry about the release time we are all waiting patiently; better keep it up amazing. I'm pretty sure if you need more money we will be there for supporting you no matter what, just don't give us rainbow colored features / fast prototyping crap. Take your time, after all this is an art master piece. The entire gaming world is watching you. You guys freaking rock.
My personal suggestion to the developers if they are torn is that wait before you create art for the sidearms and use placeholders for the alpha/beta to experiment with actual players. Use a reskinned LMG for the taser for example and if people like it, finalize the idea.
Or give us 2 sticks of C4 for structures.
I don't think they would be whining about its appearance if they had the ability to change it. Unless they're that lazy that they won't even take their time to do something to replace it... Hell, just taking a few grunge & scratch brushes, 10 minutes of your time, and you end up with something that's "grittier" than what you began with.
I'm fine with the taser, because I'm more interested in the gameplay than the presentation, but it <i>could be better</i>.
I think what is meant about breaking monotony, is instead of holding down fire to slash it up close, you plow a node into the structure and it deals love.. err damage continuously.
The main issue involved with this pistol in NS1 was people brought out their pistol a lot more because it could get damage off quick enough and accurate enough to outpace the LMG. Instead, the sidearm (taser) would do a consistent amount of damage that's often less than your main cannon would do, but more effective against the stationary things, and a decent but not godlike backup. And in one way it would be better than a knife/pistol combo because you would not have any wait time for switching weapons.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can't just go "But we can mod it" as a response to any expressed dislike...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People who say that might think that modding is simple, and that most servers would instantly start using that mod. First of all, some people want those things but would rather play the game than build one, and second, some people dislike servers that run mods, so if it was a really cool idea they might overlook it. The only way it would get into wide play would be if UkWs included it in an official patch or bonus pack.
The fact is, there is a third option. I realize you guys are the ones doing the work here, but maybe just take another try at it. The taser isn't the only option available for reworking the backup ranged and melee weapons. I'm sure we can come up with something that works better.
The taser just feels unwieldy for some reason... Like, it looks like more of a scarecrow for lifeforms than anything. Maybe it's the idea we have when thinking about a 'taser' that ruins the concept. And I don't want wires between me and an alien, I just want to blast it into oblivion... Besides a wireless tazer already exists (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/owwwww!/video-of-xrep-wireless-taser-shotgun-shocking-some-dude-276481.php), but they already used that concept with the flare gun on TF2.
just my thoughts...