<!--quoteo(post=1720113:date=Jul 30 2009, 04:31 PM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Jul 30 2009, 04:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1720113"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All of their art asset work is outsourced already. No one on the development team deals with art creation, so it's not about them being lazy. They have to physically pay someone to make anything and they have talented people make their content. The reason why I keep saying this is because people keep forgetting that they are not a mod anymore where people work for free or a large developer who has money to spare.
In closing, it's all about the money. One of their Environment Artists (who is part of the core dev team) is a student, so they might be already outsourcing some things to students.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Woa, ok, there seems to be some general confusion going on as to who our team is comprised of. The core team, and people sharing office space, are:
Charlie- Game designer, Game director, Programmer, CEO Max- Graphics Programmer, Technical Director, Tools and Engine programming, to name just a few of his many and varied tasks Cory- Art Director, concept artist Matt-Lead Environment Artist, creates textures and models, and serves the role of "that big goofy guy that we get to make fun of". He is NOT a student.
Additionally, we have some fulltime offsite contract team members. These are comprised of 2 riggers/animators, recently 2 environment artists, and 1 mapper. They are considered Unknown Worlds Developers and are part of the team.
Then we have 2 outsource guys we are dealing with, who are creating all the player models, weapons, and structures. They are independent outsourcers, not part of the team, working on a variety of other projects as well as ours.
We have another animator who is doing some stuff in his spare time for free, just working on the Skulk and Onos animations. And another programmer who is helping out in his spare time for free, doing the flash UI stuff to be integrated with the game.
We recently just added a part time producer to the team.
We also have a guy who we are contracting to make the music for the game (and who made the music for the teaser and alien reveal vids) and another guy who is going to do the sound.
And, what may have been confusing, is that we've tried working with several various students, off and on, to try and get help with rigging and environment art. None of them have ever worked out or produced anything that we could use, so we've still been on the lookout for a decent rigger. Finding a student who can produce the quality of work that we need has been virtually impossible...believe me, we've tried to find cheap/free help. However, to get quality and experience, you need to pay $
Contracting out a knife and pistol is not cheap, since they are done by the professional outsourcers. These assets are also quite time consuming, between the concept stage, and all the iterations they have to make based on our feedback, because they are only working maybe a few hours a day on them, in between all the other game projects they have. 1 asset is cheaper and faster then 2, though that is really just a small part of the reason why the taser was explored, the main reasons being trying to fix gameplay issues, create some new exciting gameplay, and to try and come up with something more unique and iconic to NS2 then the standard knife and pistol.
I know you guys aren't a mod anymore so free help isn't really expected, but have you considered releasing some non-essential ideas that community members could complete (extra textures, models etc). I know many people will go 'bugger off the core developers are getting paid I want to get paid', but I imagine there may be a couple of talented people (people not in the industry and just hobbiests) out there who would love the opportuinty to make a few small bits just to get in the credits, and love NS so much they want to push it closer to release, it would be an awesome addition to any resumes.
I know I am not a highly skilled mapper, and I played around in Hammer for an NS1 map, and some in Source. From my OLD map threads, they looked pretty good to most people, but I gave up when I realized the chances of getting good play on them without it being "official" was slim to none.
I am EAGERLY anticipating the NS2TR for the very fact there's a chance I could get a map into the OFFICIAL NS2 lineup. I think there are many artists in our custom community that would LOVE just to have seomthing in the game that they helped created. Opening up art assets wouldn't be a bad idea IMO. I don't know wbout animation and rigging, but texturing, modeling, and such would probably see a boost from the community.
Well first off I'm all for not keeping the status quo just for the hell of it, so lets see if we can make the taser a better alternative to the knife + pistol then if it's not popular enough yet.
In response to the aesthetic arguements about it looking a little feeble and not very leathal. Why not make the electrodes for the melee attack a pair of short blades or stiletto spikes? Nothing says miltary overkill like stabing something <i>and</i> electrocuting it from the inside at once. With big prominant electrodes you could have some obvious copper contacts bolted on to make it look more business-like and less neat and tidy.
The whole grip looks very wimpy, a slanted grip like that isn't very good if you're actually going to hit something hard with it or using anything with any substantial recoil because it's prone to slip out your hand or your wrist bends away from the force. I can see where the compromise grip between handgun and knife grip came from but it's no easier for a jabbing/stabbing motion than a right angled grip and looks kinda naff in comparison. Alternatively you could try keeping the obtuse angled grip and give it some kind of knuckle-duster-type guard like sugested earlier that wraps around the hand and have the business end flip up when you go to melee something.
Ok since I apparently have masses of time to spare I photshopped a quick hack job to show what I meant (and now concept artists around the world will hunt me down for my armchair artist shenanigans.)
Gameplay wise, I'm not sure if I'm a big fan of a constant damage melee attack either, obviously aiming's still an issue with fast targets like skulks but by removing timing you still have to assume the marine's going to hit a charging alien more often than not. So either the melee attack is weak enough that getting hit doesn't hurt much or the aliens are going to have a pretty tough time. I think I prefer the kill or be killed result of a slightly more powerful, much less user friendly melee weapon.
Personally I say outsource your mapping to the Alpha members. Let us create some content and have forum members collaborate all created works and organise it for you guys to review once-a-week to go "we like this idea... we don't like this idea" for a "core inclusion" possibility.
I for one would love the tools to start playing with mapping and a mate who is a student with modeling and rigging (<i>I don't think up to the standard you would want for quick completion though</i>) is willing to help me out with any custom models and content I want in my map ideas! :D
<!--quoteo(post=1720178:date=Jul 30 2009, 09:21 PM:name=Sumo-Soldier)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sumo-Soldier @ Jul 30 2009, 09:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1720178"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->who needs to shock the alien...when u can just smash the alien on the head with it! itll prob do more damage haha<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
really dont need to comment, but now my belly hurt from to mutch of "lol's"
remember guys the object of these forums are to make outrageous statements and form wild opinions about conceptual features for a game we have never played and only seen very short videos of.
<!--quoteo(post=1720206:date=Jul 31 2009, 08:43 AM:name=Dead-Inside)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dead-Inside @ Jul 31 2009, 08:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1720206"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Droopy that concept is awesome.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's just their concept one amateurish itteration along, no doubt they could do it waaay better if they were given the goal "make it menacing" and allowed to mess around. I'm just illustrating that the idea doesn't need to change much to transform from something that fits in a lady's purse to just plain "oh shiiii-" vicious looking.
I really don't want to take credit for drawing a hand guard and some spikey bits on a elegant bit of concept. :)
"Wow you guys have very strong opinions about the taser weapon. We are strongly considering replacing it with the vanilla knife/pistol."
Please keep the Taser. Just...
1. address the concerns regarding the melee attack. 2. Make shooting the transponders feel like a pistol (clip of at least 4 that you can go *pow* *pow* *pow* *pow* with)
I think the arcing attack concept will lead to some very fun gameplay versus alien forms and structures.
Ok, so for the whole taser thing... few things that can make or break this...... first off...
Animation: I don't know about the rest of you, but when slashing something with the knife, I always get a satisfying feeling, especially when I get the kill. This feeling has to be recreated with the melee version of the taser. It cant have some lame, generic, slow moving, "Here is my taser, *shock*" animation. It needs some emotion it it. For instance, instead of holding the traditional way (the taser end is point towards the enemy), the marine holds it upside down enabling him to side swipe the alien or bash downwards on it. Force needs to be shown, as if the two pointy ends were actually being penetrating the alien skin and then doing the shock.
Shield Idea: Not so keen about this. The taser is supposed to be, and I quote, "A secondary ranged weapon that isn't better than your default weapon". Keep at like that. You don't want people using this more than they use their primary weapon. If you like the idea of an electric based damage weapon, make a primary gun and start thinking up ideas for that one.
Attacks: Ok, I have a whole idea on how the transponders should work and it involves nerfing Motion Tracking. So pretty much, commander gets an obs, gets the MT upgrades. The only thing, MT only works in a certain distance from the obs instead of the whole map. So just like if a cloaked skulk gets uncloaked if he gets too close to an obs, an alien will show up as a blue circle if he gets too close to it.
Now, with the tasers, ONCE Motion Tracking is upgraded, when shooting the aliens with transponders, it sticks to them and marks them, much like parasite, and now the aliens shows up with MT. So early game (unless rushed), the taser is your basic secondary weapon that definitely has a lot of use due to lack of better lifeforms becomes an equally useful weapon later on in the game because now it can mark the better lifeforms.
So, as was said in the MT thread, you want to remove MT then? Because that already works without MT-upgrade.
As far as transponders being used for MT-marking; This would be nice just as a standard function of the gun, or as a 5 or 10 res upgrade (compared to current 35 for allmap MT) in the armory. As a replacement for MT it seems kinda retarded though.
I think it sounds like an awful idea, especially losing the knife too.
Knifing anything was fun, there's something quite involving about using a simple knife even if hacking away at a structure on full HP. Taking down structures should take time too. Do aliens players really need another reason to NOT drop a res node or chamber?
If it goes/stays in then I desperately hope it works.
Thank you for adding a more interesting last ditch than the knife. Combining the knife with the pistol to create a backup+last ditch weapon is nice.
I'm looking forward to trying this out. Don't worry about making a knife+pistol, some of the people further up the thread will most definitely make it for you, either that or they'll surprise themselves and like it. I'm looking very much forward to hearing more about when betas might be available. To hear about how we'll be able to mod and extend. Most of all i look forward to sending my wife on holiday turn off all electrical appliances, except the computer, and crawl around as a skulk exploring and killing.
<!--quoteo(post=1720334:date=Aug 1 2009, 06:36 PM:name=ratclaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ratclaw @ Aug 1 2009, 06:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1720334"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Going a little off topic, it always felt weird two have two weapons slots taken up by the same two weapons all match long.
I know there's no space in the budget right now, but what about upgrades or different options for a secondary? Just a though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
would be very cool shouldnt be much diffrent weapons, but maybe with some tiny special functions :)
1. Please let the electricity ignite Umbra? (if Umbra is still a feature)
2. Agreed with whoever was talking about having a more guttural animation/concept for the melee use. Looking at the concept, imagine bashing that thing against a metal bulkhead.. kinda looks like it would break easily. I'd prefer something that resembles more of a "taser built into a pre-existing blunt instrument." Obviously this is just aesthetic and doesn't change in-game performance, people will probably make new models/skins for it anyway.
"The knife in NS1 wasn't originally part of the game" Not originally but very exciting, why? Because if you take the knife and hit the Tower, you need to hear with your ears for skulks comming. So if one come you need to swicht fast and then shoot it, its very exciting. I don't understand why you change it to "overpowered i am the uberpro Marine".
So let me ask, you say maybe the taser do more damage while its in a skulk or other alien... Now i remind me on the interview "Skulks are a bit tougher and a bit slower"( <a href="http://nsplayer.net/ns2interview.php" target="_blank">http://nsplayer.net/ns2interview.php</a> ) ehm ok, so the skulk is slower, the marine can run behind him and taser him the whole life (of the skulk player) and dead...and dead and dead...thats very cool (for marines) Why you thing the Taser is not monotony? After a short time, everyplayer know how the things works perfect and then its boring... Ressource tower + Taser...ZZzzz
I have an idea, the LMG is monotony, maybe lets give the marines a small nuclear launcher? And sure a flamethrower, oh wait, its already in there Like in fallout, yes and maybe the marines have the nano suit from crysis, so they can be invisible, stronger and stuff, just against the "monotony" YEAH!!!!111one No realy, this is just unfair.
Making the taser look more menacing might make the knife lovers (like me) accept it more easily. A more gruesome look/feel for the melee attack seems appropriate considering it "should" be a last resort. I also like the idea of the handle flipping to allow for a more knife'ish thrust. And finally I definetly like anything that makes the taser look less like it's been pulled out of "a lady's purse"(quoting Droopy), and more like something a soldier would use against alien killing machines.
I was reluctant to accept the taser idea but looking at Droopy's "amateurish" take on it, I can definetly see myself using that, or anything evolved in that direction.
All in all though, I wouldn't dare say you shouldn't explore new and creative weaponry. Whatever you put in the game, I will use it and be happy with it.
<a href="http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/07/27/because-the-world-needed-a-semi-automatic-taser/" target="_blank">Because the world needed a semi-automatic Taser</a>
The idea of having new innovative weapons is cool. But my concerns are around a lack of a long range (accurate) weapon. Like in many games I play I enjoy being a sniper, and the one main thing I noticed is sniping in NS1 was..... well damn difficult if you were not using the pistol. But you still have many situations where like for example you see a skulk way off in the distance. But if I tried using my primary, I would hit him maybe once or twice, but no where near quickly enough, and he would have plenty of time to just walk off when I started shooting at him. The other alternative would be me trying to sneak up on him and hope he doesn't move until I get within a range where using the primary would be effective. So having the pistol that I could just whip out, get a number of very quick and accurate shots off allows to me to take him out with relative ease, which makes sense, it shouldnt take 10 bullets to kill a small dog sized creature.
So yea... I would personally love to see some weapon that allows accurate ranged damage. I mean having a primary that isn't accurate can definitely work for this game (pin-point accuracy often's means your aim must be PERFECT for a fast moving target, which most people certainly don't have. And being able to spray an area allows a much greater probability of hitting the target if they are at close or medium range). But there is always a need for SOME kind of accurate ranged weapon. So if the pistol is getting the shaft, what will be replacing it in the marines arsenal for accurate long distance shooting? It just seems useless then to have any big open areas or areas where you can see long distances, if you have no practical way of hitting what you see. And if this Taser is staying true to the idea of a taser, it will have essentially no range, and using the skulk down the hall as an example again, assuming the taser is given above normal accuracy/range for a taser, okay I can hit it, and I can do all of 1/20th of its health before is sidesteps into another corridor and i lose line of sight (and therefore the connection to the darts, and based on their description, it does very little dmg initially, but increases as the beam is held/target stands still). That's about as useless as not being able to do any damage at all, I mean I might as well have tried sneaking towards him because then I might have gotten close enough to use my primary, and then I might stand a chance of killing him if I get close enough before he can escape.
Yea iono, the idea of being a marine and being FORCED to come into medium or close range just to do any note worthy damage just seems counter productive. Personally the only way I see it working depends on how quickly it starts doing dmg after being fired (Like will it do XX dmg at impact?), and how much dmg it does per second. Because if the Taser lacks either long distance accuracy or fast/significant damage, it seems useless as a offensive weapon against anything but stationary targets. Hence the idea you are more just removing the pistol and buffing the knife, than really combining the two. But yea, they both had such different roles in the first one, combining them while preserving their uses will take creativity. But yea, whatever you do, please dont take out long range dmg for marines :(
<!--quoteo(post=1720541:date=Aug 3 2009, 09:09 PM:name=Blaise)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blaise @ Aug 3 2009, 09:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1720541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The idea of having new innovative weapons is cool. But my concerns are around a lack of a long range (accurate) weapon. Like in many games I play I enjoy being a sniper, and the one main thing I noticed is sniping in NS1 was..... well damn difficult if you were not using the pistol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was my main concern as well and the reason why I think the taser is a bad idea. UWE has compared NS to Starcraft several times. In Starcraft every unit, even the most basic, have their role and their purpose. Units don't become obsolete as tech progresses.
In NS1, the pistol very much fit that bill. It had a unique purpose that was useful for just about the entire duration of the game. What made it unique was it's accuracy. In NS2 it seems like they almost intentionally strayed form this idea, judging from the below quote in the Taser's reveal.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A secondary ranged weapon that isn't better than your default weapon<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It seems like they didn't like the pistol being something that, in certain situations, was better than an shotty / lmg / hmg. I couldn't disagree with them more and that's why I really don't like the idea of the taser in it's current form.
Why can't we just stick with the Pistol and Knife? I think the taser idea gives you the impression of a more "non-lethal" weapon. Don't get soft on me Developers. Lets put it this way if you had to fight these things in real life what would make more sense, a taser or a pistol/knife combo. The only lethal damage a taser can do is to accidentally induce a heart attack.
Why not call it "Electro-Capacitor" since the name "Taser" seems so bad to you? Calling it a taser to begin with was a bad idea since people are automatically assigning it to the non-lethal weapon.
Yeah, repeating what's been said before, but some still don't get it. Gee, people are so shallow these days...
It will probably always be called a taser, if only by the community, because that's exactly what it looks like and functions like. All the other weapons adhere to this naming policy instead of making up ridiculous acronyms or model names and numbers.
I think the problem with the taser aesthetically is the fact that its an electrical weapon, bordering on futuristic energy weapon, when the original NS carved out its distinctive marine universe with "gritty" (to quote the devs, I think?) old fashioned kinetic weapons and the taser just adds too much contrast to what we know of the rest of the marines arsenal.
Reading about the Knife+Pistol Combo, I came up with an awesome Idea. Has Anyone here seen the Movie 'Johnny Mnemonic'?? Well, one of the weapons in that move was an atom thin line. This line could cut through ANYTHING, because It was only an atom thin. OF course, this could complicate matters because it is the ultimate Melee Weapon, maybe you could only use it once per life, and it reduced your health to 5%. Or even it was a last resort so much that you had to get some of the blood of an alien to use it, I don't know. I DO like the idea of a Taser, but I think it should look more militarized or something.
MY IDEA:
-Secondary Weapon-
A small 'Pistol-like' weapon that has 1 shot, it does some damage though (35-50 depending on range(Point-Blank is an instant kill to a skulk, although he has to be biting you AND he has to have some damage taken(remember 1 shot, if you miss your screwed( SKULK INSTA-KILL ONLY))))
It isn't very accurate. But it as a melee function, It has a small blade at the end that when activated, was sort of like a mining drill, it shot in and out. But, it also damaged you from the heat it created. To help with the knifing of buildings, Structures, and higher level aliens (fades and onos) could have 'Acid Blood' or something of that sort, so that meleeing was generally discouraged. The one shot and low level accuracy could deter the uber-pistol, upgrades could be bought too.
Upgrade 1: Larger clip size (2 Bullets now available)
Upgrade 2: (2 Tech Paths) Path A: 20% More damage to Aliens/30% Less Damage to structures | Path B: 20% More Damage to Structures/ 35% less damage to Aliens/Removes Instant kill to Skulks
Upgrade 3: (Special Type) Continuation of Upgrade 2 (you cannot upgrade aliens more AND THEN with upgrade 3 structures more) --> Additional 30% to Aliens/Structures BUT the opposite of what you chose (ie. 30% more to structures) Becomes Immune to the gun (ie. 0% to Aliens). so lets say at 2m, you do 30 damage (not accurate) this means at 2m, (with Upgrade 2 and 3) you would do 45 damage, and with Aliens more damage both upgrades, Instant kill is applied to Gorges as well (but only if you below 50% Health).
Comments
In closing, it's all about the money. One of their Environment Artists (who is part of the core dev team) is a student, so they might be already outsourcing some things to students.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Woa, ok, there seems to be some general confusion going on as to who our team is comprised of. The core team, and people sharing office space, are:
Charlie- Game designer, Game director, Programmer, CEO
Max- Graphics Programmer, Technical Director, Tools and Engine programming, to name just a few of his many and varied tasks
Cory- Art Director, concept artist
Matt-Lead Environment Artist, creates textures and models, and serves the role of "that big goofy guy that we get to make fun of". He is NOT a student.
Additionally, we have some fulltime offsite contract team members. These are comprised of 2 riggers/animators, recently 2 environment artists, and 1 mapper. They are considered Unknown Worlds Developers and are part of the team.
Then we have 2 outsource guys we are dealing with, who are creating all the player models, weapons, and structures. They are independent outsourcers, not part of the team, working on a variety of other projects as well as ours.
We have another animator who is doing some stuff in his spare time for free, just working on the Skulk and Onos animations. And another programmer who is helping out in his spare time for free, doing the flash UI stuff to be integrated with the game.
We recently just added a part time producer to the team.
We also have a guy who we are contracting to make the music for the game (and who made the music for the teaser and alien reveal vids) and another guy who is going to do the sound.
And, what may have been confusing, is that we've tried working with several various students, off and on, to try and get help with rigging and environment art. None of them have ever worked out or produced anything that we could use, so we've still been on the lookout for a decent rigger. Finding a student who can produce the quality of work that we need has been virtually impossible...believe me, we've tried to find cheap/free help. However, to get quality and experience, you need to pay $
Contracting out a knife and pistol is not cheap, since they are done by the professional outsourcers. These assets are also quite time consuming, between the concept stage, and all the iterations they have to make based on our feedback, because they are only working maybe a few hours a day on them, in between all the other game projects they have. 1 asset is cheaper and faster then 2, though that is really just a small part of the reason why the taser was explored, the main reasons being trying to fix gameplay issues, create some new exciting gameplay, and to try and come up with something more unique and iconic to NS2 then the standard knife and pistol.
Anyway, hope this clears some stuff up.
--Cory
I am EAGERLY anticipating the NS2TR for the very fact there's a chance I could get a map into the OFFICIAL NS2 lineup. I think there are many artists in our custom community that would LOVE just to have seomthing in the game that they helped created. Opening up art assets wouldn't be a bad idea IMO. I don't know wbout animation and rigging, but texturing, modeling, and such would probably see a boost from the community.
In response to the aesthetic arguements about it looking a little feeble and not very leathal. Why not make the electrodes for the melee attack a pair of short blades or stiletto spikes? Nothing says miltary overkill like stabing something <i>and</i> electrocuting it from the inside at once. With big prominant electrodes you could have some obvious copper contacts bolted on to make it look more business-like and less neat and tidy.
The whole grip looks very wimpy, a slanted grip like that isn't very good if you're actually going to hit something hard with it or using anything with any substantial recoil because it's prone to slip out your hand or your wrist bends away from the force. I can see where the compromise grip between handgun and knife grip came from but it's no easier for a jabbing/stabbing motion than a right angled grip and looks kinda naff in comparison. Alternatively you could try keeping the obtuse angled grip and give it some kind of knuckle-duster-type guard like sugested earlier that wraps around the hand and have the business end flip up when you go to melee something.
Ok since I apparently have masses of time to spare I photshopped a quick hack job to show what I meant (and now concept artists around the world will hunt me down for my armchair artist shenanigans.)
<img src="http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/ddcbff9eb1bcf60892dbbefa1f6cdaa5.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
And straight
<img src="http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/897e6890f049b9ccd9cb9db6b9d9dbcf.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Gameplay wise, I'm not sure if I'm a big fan of a constant damage melee attack either, obviously aiming's still an issue with fast targets like skulks but by removing timing you still have to assume the marine's going to hit a charging alien more often than not. So either the melee attack is weak enough that getting hit doesn't hurt much or the aliens are going to have a pretty tough time. I think I prefer the kill or be killed result of a slightly more powerful, much less user friendly melee weapon.
Personally I say outsource your mapping to the Alpha members. Let us create some content and have forum members collaborate all created works and organise it for you guys to review once-a-week to go "we like this idea... we don't like this idea" for a "core inclusion" possibility.
I for one would love the tools to start playing with mapping and a mate who is a student with modeling and rigging (<i>I don't think up to the standard you would want for quick completion though</i>) is willing to help me out with any custom models and content I want in my map ideas! :D
really dont need to comment, but now my belly hurt from to mutch of "lol's"
drop all new ideas based off forum rants plox
It's just their concept one amateurish itteration along, no doubt they could do it waaay better if they were given the goal "make it menacing" and allowed to mess around. I'm just illustrating that the idea doesn't need to change much to transform from something that fits in a lady's purse to just plain "oh shiiii-" vicious looking.
I really don't want to take credit for drawing a hand guard and some spikey bits on a elegant bit of concept. :)
Please keep the Taser. Just...
1. address the concerns regarding the melee attack.
2. Make shooting the transponders feel like a pistol (clip of at least 4 that you can go *pow* *pow* *pow* *pow* with)
I think the arcing attack concept will lead to some very fun gameplay versus alien forms and structures.
Get it in the alpha and then we can tweak it.
Animation:
I don't know about the rest of you, but when slashing something with the knife, I always get a satisfying feeling, especially when I get the kill. This feeling has to be recreated with the melee version of the taser. It cant have some lame, generic, slow moving, "Here is my taser, *shock*" animation. It needs some emotion it it. For instance, instead of holding the traditional way (the taser end is point towards the enemy), the marine holds it upside down enabling him to side swipe the alien or bash downwards on it. Force needs to be shown, as if the two pointy ends were actually being penetrating the alien skin and then doing the shock.
Shield Idea:
Not so keen about this. The taser is supposed to be, and I quote, "A secondary ranged weapon that isn't better than your default weapon". Keep at like that. You don't want people using this more than they use their primary weapon. If you like the idea of an electric based damage weapon, make a primary gun and start thinking up ideas for that one.
Attacks:
Ok, I have a whole idea on how the transponders should work and it involves nerfing Motion Tracking. So pretty much, commander gets an obs, gets the MT upgrades. The only thing, MT only works in a certain distance from the obs instead of the whole map. So just like if a cloaked skulk gets uncloaked if he gets too close to an obs, an alien will show up as a blue circle if he gets too close to it.
Now, with the tasers, ONCE Motion Tracking is upgraded, when shooting the aliens with transponders, it sticks to them and marks them, much like parasite, and now the aliens shows up with MT. So early game (unless rushed), the taser is your basic secondary weapon that definitely has a lot of use due to lack of better lifeforms becomes an equally useful weapon later on in the game because now it can mark the better lifeforms.
As far as transponders being used for MT-marking; This would be nice just as a standard function of the gun, or as a 5 or 10 res upgrade (compared to current 35 for allmap MT) in the armory. As a replacement for MT it seems kinda retarded though.
Knifing anything was fun, there's something quite involving about using a simple knife even if hacking away at a structure on full HP.
Taking down structures should take time too. Do aliens players really need another reason to NOT drop a res node or chamber?
If it goes/stays in then I desperately hope it works.
Combining the knife with the pistol to create a backup+last ditch weapon is nice.
I'm looking forward to trying this out.
Don't worry about making a knife+pistol, some of the people further up the thread will most definitely make it for you, either that or they'll surprise themselves and like it.
I'm looking very much forward to hearing more about when betas might be available.
To hear about how we'll be able to mod and extend.
Most of all i look forward to sending my wife on holiday turn off all electrical appliances, except the computer, and crawl around as a skulk exploring and killing.
Happy gaming and happy developing.
I know there's no space in the budget right now, but what about upgrades or different options for a secondary? Just a though.
I know there's no space in the budget right now, but what about upgrades or different options for a secondary? Just a though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
would be very cool
shouldnt be much diffrent weapons, but maybe with some tiny special functions :)
2. Agreed with whoever was talking about having a more guttural animation/concept for the melee use. Looking at the concept, imagine bashing that thing against a metal bulkhead.. kinda looks like it would break easily. I'd prefer something that resembles more of a "taser built into a pre-existing blunt instrument." Obviously this is just aesthetic and doesn't change in-game performance, people will probably make new models/skins for it anyway.
Cool idea.
versus
Taser
"The knife in NS1 wasn't originally part of the game"
Not originally but very exciting, why?
Because if you take the knife and hit the Tower, you need to hear with your ears for skulks comming.
So if one come you need to swicht fast and then shoot it, its very exciting.
I don't understand why you change it to "overpowered i am the uberpro Marine".
So let me ask, you say maybe the taser do more damage while its in a skulk or other alien...
Now i remind me on the interview "Skulks are a bit tougher and a bit slower"( <a href="http://nsplayer.net/ns2interview.php" target="_blank">http://nsplayer.net/ns2interview.php</a> )
ehm ok, so the skulk is slower, the marine can run behind him and taser him the whole life (of the skulk player) and dead...and dead and dead...thats very cool (for marines)
Why you thing the Taser is not monotony?
After a short time, everyplayer know how the things works perfect and then its boring...
Ressource tower + Taser...ZZzzz
I have an idea, the LMG is monotony, maybe lets give the marines a small nuclear launcher?
And sure a flamethrower, oh wait, its already in there
Like in fallout, yes and maybe the marines have the nano suit from crysis, so they can be invisible, stronger and stuff, just against the "monotony" YEAH!!!!111one
No realy, this is just unfair.
Making the taser look more menacing might make the knife lovers (like me) accept it more easily. A more gruesome look/feel for the melee attack seems appropriate considering it "should" be a last resort.
I also like the idea of the handle flipping to allow for a more knife'ish thrust. And finally I definetly like anything that makes the taser look less like it's been pulled out of "a lady's purse"(quoting Droopy), and more like something a soldier would use against alien killing machines.
I was reluctant to accept the taser idea but looking at Droopy's "amateurish" take on it, I can definetly see myself using that, or anything evolved in that direction.
All in all though, I wouldn't dare say you shouldn't explore new and creative weaponry. Whatever you put in the game, I will use it and be happy with it.
(I just really like my knife)
<a href="http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/07/27/because-the-world-needed-a-semi-automatic-taser/" target="_blank">Because the world needed a semi-automatic Taser</a>
Isn't it bright? And shiny?
So yea... I would personally love to see some weapon that allows accurate ranged damage. I mean having a primary that isn't accurate can definitely work for this game (pin-point accuracy often's means your aim must be PERFECT for a fast moving target, which most people certainly don't have. And being able to spray an area allows a much greater probability of hitting the target if they are at close or medium range). But there is always a need for SOME kind of accurate ranged weapon. So if the pistol is getting the shaft, what will be replacing it in the marines arsenal for accurate long distance shooting? It just seems useless then to have any big open areas or areas where you can see long distances, if you have no practical way of hitting what you see. And if this Taser is staying true to the idea of a taser, it will have essentially no range, and using the skulk down the hall as an example again, assuming the taser is given above normal accuracy/range for a taser, okay I can hit it, and I can do all of 1/20th of its health before is sidesteps into another corridor and i lose line of sight (and therefore the connection to the darts, and based on their description, it does very little dmg initially, but increases as the beam is held/target stands still). That's about as useless as not being able to do any damage at all, I mean I might as well have tried sneaking towards him because then I might have gotten close enough to use my primary, and then I might stand a chance of killing him if I get close enough before he can escape.
Yea iono, the idea of being a marine and being FORCED to come into medium or close range just to do any note worthy damage just seems counter productive. Personally the only way I see it working depends on how quickly it starts doing dmg after being fired (Like will it do XX dmg at impact?), and how much dmg it does per second. Because if the Taser lacks either long distance accuracy or fast/significant damage, it seems useless as a offensive weapon against anything but stationary targets. Hence the idea you are more just removing the pistol and buffing the knife, than really combining the two. But yea, they both had such different roles in the first one, combining them while preserving their uses will take creativity. But yea, whatever you do, please dont take out long range dmg for marines :(
This was my main concern as well and the reason why I think the taser is a bad idea. UWE has compared NS to Starcraft several times. In Starcraft every unit, even the most basic, have their role and their purpose. Units don't become obsolete as tech progresses.
In NS1, the pistol very much fit that bill. It had a unique purpose that was useful for just about the entire duration of the game. What made it unique was it's accuracy. In NS2 it seems like they almost intentionally strayed form this idea, judging from the below quote in the Taser's reveal.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A secondary ranged weapon that isn't better than your default weapon<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It seems like they didn't like the pistol being something that, in certain situations, was better than an shotty / lmg / hmg. I couldn't disagree with them more and that's why I really don't like the idea of the taser in it's current form.
Pistol/Knife > Taser
Why not call it "Electro-Capacitor" since the name "Taser" seems so bad to you? Calling it a taser to begin with was a bad idea since people are automatically assigning it to the non-lethal weapon.
Yeah, repeating what's been said before, but some still don't get it. Gee, people are so shallow these days...
I think the problem with the taser aesthetically is the fact that its an electrical weapon, bordering on futuristic energy weapon, when the original NS carved out its distinctive marine universe with "gritty" (to quote the devs, I think?) old fashioned kinetic weapons and the taser just adds too much contrast to what we know of the rest of the marines arsenal.
MY IDEA:
-Secondary Weapon-
A small 'Pistol-like' weapon that has 1 shot, it does some damage though (35-50 depending on range(Point-Blank is an instant kill to a skulk, although he has to be biting you AND he has to have some damage taken(remember 1 shot, if you miss your screwed( SKULK INSTA-KILL ONLY))))
It isn't very accurate. But it as a melee function, It has a small blade at the end that when activated, was sort of like a mining drill, it shot in and out. But, it also damaged you from the heat it created. To help with the knifing of buildings, Structures, and higher level aliens (fades and onos) could have 'Acid Blood' or something of that sort, so that meleeing was generally discouraged. The one shot and low level accuracy could deter the uber-pistol, upgrades could be bought too.
Upgrade 1: Larger clip size (2 Bullets now available)
Upgrade 2: (2 Tech Paths) Path A: 20% More damage to Aliens/30% Less Damage to structures | Path B: 20% More Damage to Structures/ 35% less damage to Aliens/Removes Instant kill to Skulks
Upgrade 3: (Special Type) Continuation of Upgrade 2 (you cannot upgrade aliens more AND THEN with upgrade 3 structures more) --> Additional 30% to Aliens/Structures BUT the opposite of what you chose (ie. 30% more to structures) Becomes Immune to the gun (ie. 0% to Aliens). so lets say at 2m, you do 30 damage (not accurate) this means at 2m, (with Upgrade 2 and 3) you would do 45 damage, and with Aliens more damage both upgrades, Instant kill is applied to Gorges as well (but only if you below 50% Health).
Just an Idea, no one has to care ^^