Why are the marine structures getting bigger and bigger? You can't even look over the Armory now. Is the turret factory going to be as big as the Onos?
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
I think it looks really great, I generally like the improvements in functionality and aesthetics. I have no problem with the hologram, there are already holograms scattered around NS. I would suggest making the hologram low-tech, and have it flicker and distort a bit. The hologram can be used to differentiate the armoury from advanced armoury or other upgraded states.
I think it is important that when interfacing with the armoury the player can continue to be aware of their surroundings and be able to react. If, for example, one had to press esc a couple of times to shoot that skulk you spot then it will be very frustrating. I would suggest, therefore, keeping the interface to the weapon select keys, leaving all movement and combat binds unaffected. If a player moves away from the armoury the equipment selection interface should just disappear silently.
One other problem in NS that should be solved this time around is armoury humping. It's frustrating to see your team hump the armoury for unnecessary ammo after a spawning, so I would immediately suggest that most weapons spawn with full ammo.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1722559:date=Aug 13 2009, 12:08 PM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (puzl @ Aug 13 2009, 12:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722559"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One other problem in NS that should be solved this time around is armoury humping. It's frustrating to see your team hump the armoury for unnecessary ammo after a spawning, so I would immediately suggest that most weapons spawn with full ammo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree, but if more ammo still is going to make you heavier and slower, I can see the "pros" immediatly emptying their clips in base to get rid of some ammo and thus become faster.
So I guess UWE has to find the ideal amount of ammo to spawn with in order to minimize speed loss and the amount of armory humpers.
Some kind of weight indicator in the armory interface, while buying equipment, maybe even with a rough speed indicator to make the newer players aware of the link between weight and running speed, might also help and will render a possible addition of full ammo to all weapons unnecessary.
I like it a lot especially after Cory’s clarifying post, since my first thought where that no more than 4 players could interact with it simultaneously. Sure the hologram isn’t something you would see in real life military equipment I guess, but this is a game and I kinda think it fits the NS atmosphere. It also sounds like a good way to show aliens if the armory is upgraded or not (or whatever you can do with it in NS2).
Uhm it's been a while since i had been into NS's game mechanics but as far as i remember ammount of ammo has next to no impact on movement speed. But the weapons and equipment has (try flying around with a jetpack with only a lmg and try to fly around with an HMG and a welder and it's pretty easy to notice).
And i don't really know about people spawning with full ammo, usually it's a tradeoff. Lose time and hump the armory or run off without humping taking the risk to run out of ammo and cost the comm some res.
The only way i would like to see something like this would be as an researchable upgrade. Should be cheap and quick to tech kinda like the grenade upgrade but with like 2-3 levels each level increasing the ammunition on spawn by 1 magazine. After all NS1 lacks small/cheap upgrades that add some utility, most if not all upgrades are rather expensive and long researching.
edit: Why am i the only one who's annoyed by the prospect of the armorys "arms" clipping trough players? Seriously people get annoyed about a hologram ontop of the armory that at least doesn't look broken but totaly ignore that half the structure is gonna clip trough most marines using it.
I just hope the hitbox on the thing is really tight, so I can shoot over it (for 1) and (2) the arms that fold out actually dont have a hitbox - so you can shoot past it for any aliens behind. But if these arms do block bullets, then I hope the real estate (or "footprint") is as small as UWE say.
Lastly, I concur that there should be some kind of detail to show an upgraded, advanced armory.
That video and explaination was terrific... but what did you mean when you said "when a marine purchases his gun"? I hope to god marines wont be in charge of their own weapons. I don't want to have pre-ordered ns combat with better graphics and extra hives...
I still think the thing looks great. Maybe not as deployable looking as the RT as I would have hoped.
MarcusAurelius: As I understand it the COM decides what what weapons the marines will be able to purchase. Or maybe I'm wrong here? Someone also mentioned the option to be able to buy your junk before you spawn back in. This might be a problem as there are certain amount of "special" weapons up for sale. I would be frustrated if I order myself a shotty and after spawn realize, or not, that someone else got there first. "What? Where is my weapon!" And marines that are alive should be prioritized.
And finally, the only reason for me not liking the hologram is because a marine should know what the armory looks like. These guys are not playing a game inside the game are they? They actually went to some boot camp where they must have been shown the armory and also taught how to operate one. I get the people that don't like super realistic games though. But NS isn't close enough to super realistic.
I'm not sure I like the idea of the arms coming out and scanning the marine. I can see a marine getting caught in this the arms and having to always do a complete 180 or backing up in a straight line to get out.
What I think the armory should do is have a holograph scanner that just scan the head of the marine as if it is communicating with the helmet of the marine. This way more than 4 marines can access the armory at any given time and there is no "phalanges" (lol) sticking out that will limit the movement and the access of multiple marines.
Ohhh and in regards to the advanced armory, I think it should have some form of defense mechanism. Either it be electrified upon advancement, a small laser turret, or something of the sort to develop some means of defense.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
I like the whole thing, the insect like movement of the scan, the speed of the scan and fabrication, the "hug" it gives you during fabrication. I would personally like it better if you could see the guns inside the machine(in glass) instead of having the hologram float on top. I don't really mind the hologram though and this it's better for gameplay overall.
I like hologram on top of the armory. It's not like every other armory in many games whitch just show some guns behind glass or steel net. It's more 'futuristic'.
Armory has some looks from warhammer 40 000 landing pod. And now it really looks armory for guns not just jumping oil barrel where you can get ammo.
So now marines need to spend more time at the armory (to buy weapons) and fewer marines can use it at a time. That seems like a significant change in game play and probably not a good one. If NS2 was a single player game it would be awesome but its not.
I can also imagine cases of marines just trying to walk by the armory from one side of the base to the other when all of a sudden an arm come flying out and hit them from the armory.
I think I know how we can keep the two sides of the stations agument happy.
Side 1: Player's don't want to wait in line just to grab a couple of clips before going out. Side 2: Player's don't want the stations for a pure decorative feature(since it looks awsome!)
What about having one of the stations by a pure ammo station so 4 or more rines can hump all they want while not blocking up loadout stations. The loadout stations can be use like the model and animations were intended.
So let me say this first and foremost. I like the hologram gun rotating on the top... I really do. I just think it's a tad bit silly for marines to need this kind of "landmark" to know where to buy guns. (They are marines after all.) Why not use the hologram for a menu of sorts? IE, displaying what guns are available, the armory's HP, and so on.
I doubt the arms will have collision. They will just pass through players and other objects.
In addition, the marines have a 'salary' in which they use to buy equipment and the commander has his own pool of resources to use for commander things. Essentially the Alien and Marine resource system got merged with the result the aliens having their own commander.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited August 2009
The comm should have a lot of control over the armory if he chooses, but by default most of it should be automated.
1) Comm allocates res for the armory. Automatic or manual (auto = certain % of total res, manual = commander chooses when to 'donate' res and how much) 2) Comm controls weaponry/equipment. (auto = marines can access and buy automatically anything when researched, manual = comm chooses when to unlock\lock anything due to res constraints) 3) Comm controls player purchasing (auto = anyone can buy anything, manual = comm can unlock certain advanced guns/equipment only for certain players)
That might be too much micro, but seems fitting for seasoned commanders to fine tune their strategies. This pretty much recreates how it works in NS now, but only if the commander chooses to have that much control. This also eliminates accidentally giving good guns/equipment to poor players rather than someone who knows how to use it well.
<!--quoteo(post=1722629:date=Aug 13 2009, 12:31 PM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Aug 13 2009, 12:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722629"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The comm should have a lot of control over the armory if he chooses, but by default most of it should be automated.
1) Comm allocates res for the armory. Automatic or manual (auto = certain % of total res, manual = commander chooses when to 'donate' res and how much) 2) Comm controls weaponry/equipment. (auto = marines can access and buy automatically anything when researched, manual = comm chooses when to unlock\lock anything due to res constraints) 3) Comm controls player purchasing (auto = anyone can buy anything, manual = comm can unlock certain advanced guns/equipment only for certain players)
That might be too much micro, but seems fitting for seasoned commanders to fine tune their strategies. This pretty much recreates how it works in NS now, but only if the commander chooses to have that much control. This also eliminates accidentally giving good guns/equipment to poor players rather than someone who knows how to use it well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bullets 1 and 2 are moot because Marines and the Commander don't share a single resource pool and instead each player has their individual pool to buy stuff with. Why would the commander need to allocate resources to the armory or why deny stuff to players due to resource constraints of the commander when its the marines who use their own resources for it. The third idea might work, but it will just build resentment towards the commander for denying something to the players. Seasoned players should be able to formulate a strategy with the commander, instead of the commander being totalitarian on their asses.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bullets 1 and 2 are moot because Marines and the Commander don't share a single resource pool and instead each player has their individual pool to buy stuff with. Why would the commander need to allocate resources to the armory or why deny stuff to players due to resource constraints of the commander when its the marines who use their own resources for it. The third idea might work, but it will just build resentment towards the commander for denying something to the players. Seasoned players should be able to formulate a strategy with the commander, instead of the commander being totalitarian on their asses.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did they mention somewhere that marines have their own res pool now? I'm not sure how that works yet. The third option is essentially no different than how it is now in NS (including players whining at the armory for a gun). Except this way you won't have the 'fish feed' scenario where everybody tries to get the gun when dropped for someone. It's hard to control your team if anybody can buy any gun whenever they want assuming a collective resource pool. If marines do have their own resource pool now (through kills or something) then this solves the problem of better players being able to buy better equipment themselves. Newer players would still be able to buy a nice gun or two, but res would come in slower for them so if they die a lot they can't afford to keep buying new ones.
IIRC, the commander spends res to "stock" the armory with weapons. Players then "buy" or rather "remove" weapons from that stock, at the armory, for no real cost other than the initial "stocking" fee, spent by the commander. So you still have the commander buying the weapons with the marine's pooled res, and not individual res.
Armory is pretty good. I do miss the roundness though.
I use military equipment, and some manufacturers will put a garish company logo on it in a place that doesn't make much sense. So the hologram kind of fits in my mind. After all, civilian minds came up with the armory no doubt, and don't know what it's like out there in infested space. I would like different tech in the Fronteersman's arsenal to have contractor identification logos on it. I feel this would be a neato-completo addition to the NS lore.
The only things I would change are; I think it needs a medical symbol. I suggest that new symbol which doesn't have any religious significance, as I have heard that UN nations are expected to transition over to it in the near future.
Also- THE ARMORY WELDS YOU!?
EDIT: I love love LOVE how the arms make tiny adjustments before they unfurl. It makes it look organic.
<!--quoteo(post=1722635:date=Aug 13 2009, 12:49 PM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Aug 13 2009, 12:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722635"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did they mention somewhere that marines have their own res pool now? I'm not sure how that works yet. The third option is essentially no different than how it is now in NS (including players whining at the armory for a gun). Except this way you won't have the 'fish feed' scenario where everybody tries to get the gun when dropped for someone. It's hard to control your team if anybody can buy any gun whenever they want assuming a collective resource pool. If marines do have their own resource pool now (through kills or something) then this solves the problem of better players being able to buy better equipment themselves. Newer players would still be able to buy a nice gun or two, but res would come in slower for them so if they die a lot they can't afford to keep buying new ones.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It seems like it. In an interview (http://www.nsplayer.net/ns2interview.php), they mentioned that the resource system is being unified. The exact details weren't revealed but it does seem like a) the commander has resources and b) the individual players on-the-ground have resources. Since the aliens traditionally have their own resource pools, the individual marines will need something similar for the system to be unified.
Comments
I think it is important that when interfacing with the armoury the player can continue to be aware of their surroundings and be able to react. If, for example, one had to press esc a couple of times to shoot that skulk you spot then it will be very frustrating. I would suggest, therefore, keeping the interface to the weapon select keys, leaving all movement and combat binds unaffected. If a player moves away from the armoury the equipment selection interface should just disappear silently.
One other problem in NS that should be solved this time around is armoury humping. It's frustrating to see your team hump the armoury for unnecessary ammo after a spawning, so I would immediately suggest that most weapons spawn with full ammo.
I agree, but if more ammo still is going to make you heavier and slower, I can see the "pros" immediatly emptying their clips in base to get rid of some ammo and thus become faster.
So I guess UWE has to find the ideal amount of ammo to spawn with in order to minimize speed loss and the amount of armory humpers.
Some kind of weight indicator in the armory interface, while buying equipment, maybe even with a rough speed indicator to make the newer players aware of the link between weight and running speed, might also help and will render a possible addition of full ammo to all weapons unnecessary.
Sure the hologram isn’t something you would see in real life military equipment I guess, but this is a game and I kinda think it fits the NS atmosphere. It also sounds like a good way to show aliens if the armory is upgraded or not (or whatever you can do with it in NS2).
And i don't really know about people spawning with full ammo, usually it's a tradeoff. Lose time and hump the armory or run off without humping taking the risk to run out of ammo and cost the comm some res.
The only way i would like to see something like this would be as an researchable upgrade. Should be cheap and quick to tech kinda like the grenade upgrade but with like 2-3 levels each level increasing the ammunition on spawn by 1 magazine. After all NS1 lacks small/cheap upgrades that add some utility, most if not all upgrades are rather expensive and long researching.
edit: Why am i the only one who's annoyed by the prospect of the armorys "arms" clipping trough players? Seriously people get annoyed about a hologram ontop of the armory that at least doesn't look broken but totaly ignore that half the structure is gonna clip trough most marines using it.
Lastly, I concur that there should be some kind of detail to show an upgraded, advanced armory.
I dont mind seeing advancement state of the armory more easily, but gettin field armorys size of a tower kind of bothers me.
I hope new players dont get the same vibe as me that the armory is trying to eat ME.
MarcusAurelius: As I understand it the COM decides what what weapons the marines will be able to purchase. Or maybe I'm wrong here? Someone also mentioned the option to be able to buy your junk before you spawn back in. This might be a problem as there are certain amount of "special" weapons up for sale. I would be frustrated if I order myself a shotty and after spawn realize, or not, that someone else got there first. "What? Where is my weapon!" And marines that are alive should be prioritized.
And finally, the only reason for me not liking the hologram is because a marine should know what the armory looks like. These guys are not playing a game inside the game are they? They actually went to some boot camp where they must have been shown the armory and also taught how to operate one. I get the people that don't like super realistic games though. But NS isn't close enough to super realistic.
Looking sexy
...and gj on the female rine in the pic :D
What I think the armory should do is have a holograph scanner that just scan the head of the marine as if it is communicating with the helmet of the marine. This way more than 4 marines can access the armory at any given time and there is no "phalanges" (lol) sticking out that will limit the movement and the access of multiple marines.
Ohhh and in regards to the advanced armory, I think it should have some form of defense mechanism. Either it be electrified upon advancement, a small laser turret, or something of the sort to develop some means of defense.
Armory has some looks from warhammer 40 000 landing pod. And now it really looks armory for guns not just jumping oil barrel where you can get ammo.
Really good work mates!
If NS2 was a single player game it would be awesome but its not.
I can also imagine cases of marines just trying to walk by the armory from one side of the base to the other when all of a sudden an arm come flying out and hit them from the armory.
Side 1: Player's don't want to wait in line just to grab a couple of clips before going out.
Side 2: Player's don't want the stations for a pure decorative feature(since it looks awsome!)
What about having one of the stations by a pure ammo station so 4 or more rines can hump all they want while not blocking up loadout stations. The loadout stations can be use like the model and animations were intended.
Thoughts?
In addition, the marines have a 'salary' in which they use to buy equipment and the commander has his own pool of resources to use for commander things. Essentially the Alien and Marine resource system got merged with the result the aliens having their own commander.
1) Comm allocates res for the armory. Automatic or manual (auto = certain % of total res, manual = commander chooses when to 'donate' res and how much)
2) Comm controls weaponry/equipment. (auto = marines can access and buy automatically anything when researched, manual = comm chooses when to unlock\lock anything due to res constraints)
3) Comm controls player purchasing (auto = anyone can buy anything, manual = comm can unlock certain advanced guns/equipment only for certain players)
That might be too much micro, but seems fitting for seasoned commanders to fine tune their strategies. This pretty much recreates how it works in NS now, but only if the commander chooses to have that much control. This also eliminates accidentally giving good guns/equipment to poor players rather than someone who knows how to use it well.
1) Comm allocates res for the armory. Automatic or manual (auto = certain % of total res, manual = commander chooses when to 'donate' res and how much)
2) Comm controls weaponry/equipment. (auto = marines can access and buy automatically anything when researched, manual = comm chooses when to unlock\lock anything due to res constraints)
3) Comm controls player purchasing (auto = anyone can buy anything, manual = comm can unlock certain advanced guns/equipment only for certain players)
That might be too much micro, but seems fitting for seasoned commanders to fine tune their strategies. This pretty much recreates how it works in NS now, but only if the commander chooses to have that much control. This also eliminates accidentally giving good guns/equipment to poor players rather than someone who knows how to use it well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bullets 1 and 2 are moot because Marines and the Commander don't share a single resource pool and instead each player has their individual pool to buy stuff with. Why would the commander need to allocate resources to the armory or why deny stuff to players due to resource constraints of the commander when its the marines who use their own resources for it. The third idea might work, but it will just build resentment towards the commander for denying something to the players. Seasoned players should be able to formulate a strategy with the commander, instead of the commander being totalitarian on their asses.
Did they mention somewhere that marines have their own res pool now? I'm not sure how that works yet. The third option is essentially no different than how it is now in NS (including players whining at the armory for a gun). Except this way you won't have the 'fish feed' scenario where everybody tries to get the gun when dropped for someone. It's hard to control your team if anybody can buy any gun whenever they want assuming a collective resource pool. If marines do have their own resource pool now (through kills or something) then this solves the problem of better players being able to buy better equipment themselves. Newer players would still be able to buy a nice gun or two, but res would come in slower for them so if they die a lot they can't afford to keep buying new ones.
I use military equipment, and some manufacturers will put a garish company logo on it in a place that doesn't make much sense. So the hologram kind of fits in my mind. After all, civilian minds came up with the armory no doubt, and don't know what it's like out there in infested space.
I would like different tech in the Fronteersman's arsenal to have contractor identification logos on it. I feel this would be a neato-completo addition to the NS lore.
The only things I would change are; I think it needs a medical symbol. I suggest that new symbol which doesn't have any religious significance, as I have heard that UN nations are expected to transition over to it in the near future.
Also- THE ARMORY WELDS YOU!?
EDIT: I love love LOVE how the arms make tiny adjustments before they unfurl. It makes it look organic.
It seems like it. In an interview (http://www.nsplayer.net/ns2interview.php), they mentioned that the resource system is being unified. The exact details weren't revealed but it does seem like a) the commander has resources and b) the individual players on-the-ground have resources. Since the aliens traditionally have their own resource pools, the individual marines will need something similar for the system to be unified.