Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
Some developers use a % completion graph for the game and sub-components of it; this shows everyone where the developers see themselves in terms of being close to releasing the game, what's done / not done, etc. Maybe implementing something simple like that would help bring the game's development into better perspective for the public if that's the intention.
The more time spent catering to everyone's demands for information on the game is more time taken away from developing the game. Loads of the game is finished but we'd rather carry on making the rest of it than showing off everything that's been completed. That's fair, right?
I be honest, I just like to use the map tools, I have more fun over half the time playing with hammer than half life 2. Just saying, but I can wait. I waited for money things, I haven't died since.
Keep in mind that alpha to beta can be extremely fast. Beta simply means feature complete, and is stable. Alpha means feature complete.
So while you could say it wont be ready until 3rd quarter 2010 (really though? That's a pretty far off guess.) keep in mind they could be at 80% of everything, and then one month of hitting targets and boom, ready by late october.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a november/december release, but honestly, october isn't an inconceivable target. Also, didn't NS1 come out ON Halloween? I remember playing it the day it was out - man that was a trip.
Actually, I can still remember the last forum message I typed, replying to a post asking what 'role' people played. I said I was the guy who always managed to get a tonne of assists, yet no kills.
Having been a fan of Blizzard and Valve for many years having a game released within 2 years of its initial projected completion date is a bonus.
Personally in this case I dont think the release date is looking likely and I base this on the shaky ground of seeing no actual game footage, just script videos and renders and the conflicting impressions of how much work is still left to do by the very small dev team.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
yeah, i agree, everything looks fine around here :-)
thanks cory for the update by the way, really nice to have some clarification (well, it should have been obvious, but well).
So everybody keep it down, i too don't think there is going to be a fall release, but the alpha should be out then and beta probably this year too. then it needs some time to balance the game, won't be a easy task and we will need alot of patience and discipline in those forum discussions (don't know if i'm looking forward to that..).
But yeah, as soon as the mapping tools are out i'm happy ;-)
<!--quoteo(post=1722910:date=Aug 14 2009, 10:13 PM:name=Shalrath)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shalrath @ Aug 14 2009, 10:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722910"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->keep in mind they could be at 80% of everything,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If I remember correctly, they said in some podcast some while ago that they are about 50 - 60% done.
But seriously isn't the game already in Alpha stage? Or are they going to complete the entire game untill they release the Alpha?
As I know it, the Alpha version is usually the version witch is "Unplayable". Stuff is missing and bugs everywhere, crashes and so on. Then the Beta is the one witch you actually can do something in the game.
Maybe they already have the Alpha version ready somewhere, but don't release it.
I belive they can't be that far away from completing the game. The 80% might be it.
I won't trust anyone else then the development team.
Ok, so I have utter faith in NS2 being totally awesome and being released before winter. However I can still theorize about other possible permutations. Here is where I'm at.
Unknown Worlds has 'angel' investors. So they fund a % of the dev cost. This is set to a schedule. With the pre-orders being somewhat sudden and more numerous than expected, this schedule could easily slide some what if necessary. I have a feeling much will be revealed at PAX (now the biggest game show in US?). I extrapolate that we could see an alpha/beta at Halloween.
This gorge tech engine or whatever, it is has a genius to it. Every aspect of the game design can be manipulated on the fly it seems. From the Tools vids you can see how texture modification is streamed in nearly instantly to the running engine code. The LUA code system is wickedly awesome. It's possible Charlie has been making weapons (pistol/knife/electazer) with place holder models to test gameplay feel. The LUA code makes code behavior changes exceedingly simple. These guys have made a LUA debugger that sells to other devs well. I think with the dev tools they have it makes the tweaking phase very simplistic and flexible. Just this tech framework they have created will be immensely amazing. I'm sure with this made-to-order tech, the gang are whipping up some wonderfully tasty gameplay. And quickly too!
I thought I mentioned it in my post, but in case I didn't:
"As I know it, the Alpha version is usually the version witch is "Unplayable". Stuff is missing and bugs everywhere, crashes and so on."
Alpha means the game is feature complete. It means every part of the game is put in place, but isn't that stable. Pretend you're in the alpha of NS1, it would be something like you can build all the buildings, but the Armoury falls through the ground, or the turrets don't fire at, I dunno, gorges. Stuff like that. The problem with actually HITTING alpha is that every single piece of the game has to work in some way. So the game could be 99% feature complete, but the lobby doesn't allow you to join the kharaa or something. That means it can't be alpha'd yet.
Let's just say that, in terms of alpha, I've worked on games that were <i>released to the public</i> before it hit alpha. It sold over a million copies, so it happens all over the place.
i believe that they will pull through on the release date. they show very little. only what you need to see to keep you on the edge of your seat. make you want it even more. so when the game is actually released you will be epically excited and play for weeks with no sleep =D. and it would be awesome to release it on Halloween. seeing that ns1 was released then. most games come out near the same date that their prequels were released.
<!--quoteo(post=1723033:date=Aug 15 2009, 10:36 PM:name=Sooper1337)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sooper1337 @ Aug 15 2009, 10:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723033"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i believe that they will pull through on the release date. they show very little. only what you need to see to keep you on the edge of your seat. make you want it even more. so when the game is actually released you will be epically excited and play for weeks with no sleep =D. and it would be awesome to release it on Halloween. seeing that ns1 was released then. most games come out near the same date that their prequels were released.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then Lets hope that the Natural Selecion 2 isn't like most games.
<!--quoteo(post=1722665:date=Aug 13 2009, 02:28 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Aug 13 2009, 02:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Go do a real project sometime and let us know how your timeline guessing skills work out.
If anything, I sometimes wish they'd disappear and just crank it out instead of bothering to actually post a response in this forum. Honestly, you guys have very little clue on how press releases and development of something of this scale works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would you care to enlighten us as to your expertise in this subject? Based on your information you have informed us that you are in fact an expert.
This Thread needs to die right now. Honestly just chill out everyone!
+1 to trust in alpha soon. Screw the release date. -1 to a regular update schedule (that would slow everything else down)
Kudos to Cory (my new hero) for answering multiple times even though his 1st answer was more than enough. Shame on the guy smart talking back to him like if the first answer wasn't enough. If you are so impatient about the game then stop asking the devs stupid follow up questions. Armory was DONE about 8 months ago, chew on that for 2 seconds.
Also many here seem to forget that UWE wasn't even directly responsible for this whole "Fall 2009" announcement. IIRC it was one of their Angel investor's that "leaked" that info putting the pressure on UWE.
Now as fans let's not add to that pressure. I think UWE pressures themselves enough. I want an NS2 alpha soon also, but I also care enough about the UWE team itself to back off on the whole "Are we there yet?" pressure adding childishness.
Enjoy the updates. Discuss the lerk, and the skulk, etc...
I am starting to step back from the forums a little. It feels like people don't bother to read up on existing threads or even in the posts they are posting and just yell whatever they are thinking.
<!--quoteo(post=1723080:date=Aug 16 2009, 05:27 AM:name=NeoSniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoSniper @ Aug 16 2009, 05:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This Thread needs to die right now. Honestly just chill out everyone!
+1 to trust in alpha soon. Screw the release date. -1 to a regular update schedule (that would slow everything else down)
Kudos to Cory (my new hero) for answering multiple times even though his 1st answer was more than enough. Shame on the guy smart talking back to him like if the first answer wasn't enough. If you are so impatient about the game then stop asking the devs stupid follow up questions. Armory was DONE about 8 months ago, chew on that for 2 seconds.
Also many here seem to forget that UWE wasn't even directly responsible for this whole "Fall 2009" announcement. IIRC it was one of their Angel investor's that "leaked" that info putting the pressure on UWE.
Now as fans let's not add to that pressure. I think UWE pressures themselves enough. I want an NS2 alpha soon also, but I also care enough about the UWE team itself to back off on the whole "Are we there yet?" pressure adding childishness.
Enjoy the updates. Discuss the lerk, and the skulk, etc...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I think the same. This thread has gone too far, it's time to shut it down.
<!--quoteo(post=1722961:date=Aug 15 2009, 06:17 AM:name=Tekoppen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tekoppen @ Aug 15 2009, 06:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722961"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But seriously isn't the game already in Alpha stage? Or are they going to complete the entire game untill they release the Alpha?
As I know it, the Alpha version is usually the version witch is "Unplayable". Stuff is missing and bugs everywhere, crashes and so on. Then the Beta is the one witch you actually can do something in the game.
Maybe they already have the Alpha version ready somewhere, but don't release it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They probably have an alpha like this but they'll never release it. Gamers don't care what you call a release but the release must be stable and it can't be frustrating to play. I think the word "alpha" was used to entice more people to buy the special edition. I don't imagine alpha lasting too long when compared to beta; I envision it more of a "play beta for a week or two before those other guys."
<!--quoteo(post=1723103:date=Aug 16 2009, 11:05 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Aug 16 2009, 11:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723103"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They probably have an alpha like this but they'll never release it. Gamers don't care what you call a release but the release must be stable and it can't be frustrating to play. I think the word "alpha" was used to entice more people to buy the special edition. I don't imagine alpha lasting too long when compared to beta; I incision it more of a "play beta for a week or two before those other guys."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
to me it doesnt matter to much. i just want an alpha and the tools soon. the full release can wait. i just need something to bring down my anticipation for this game. plus i wanna see how great the tools are =D.
There's no point of waiting for the Alpha. If or if not there will be a fall release, it seem that we won't know before hand when the Alpha will be released.
<!--quoteo(post=1723081:date=Aug 16 2009, 02:49 PM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Aug 16 2009, 02:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723081"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am starting to step back from the forums a little. It feels like people don't bother to read up on existing threads or even in the posts they are posting and just yell whatever they are thinking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed.
I've barely touched the forums for a week... and I'm still up to date on the situation. /me waits for next twitter/news post.
I've barely touched the forums for a week... and I'm still up to date on the situation. /me waits for next twitter/news post.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You quoting me reminded me how awful my grammar was : (
<!--quoteo(post=1723185:date=Aug 16 2009, 11:10 PM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Aug 16 2009, 11:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723185"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You quoting me reminded me how awful my grammar was : (<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know, I bet the Alpha will be kinda like an unrefined version of the game. Things will be tested, as well as fixed. Beta will probably include some tweaking, more fixes, and a good chance that there will be some testing.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1722903:date=Aug 14 2009, 04:28 PM:name=dux)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dux @ Aug 14 2009, 04:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722903"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The more time spent catering to everyone's demands for information on the game is more time taken away from developing the game. Loads of the game is finished but we'd rather carry on making the rest of it than showing off everything that's been completed. That's fair, right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, get the game out a week earlier rather than give us a weeks worth of partial information.
That said, PR is important, and skimping on it will only hurt you in the end, especially if you're going to compete in the Q4 season.(TBH Q1 2010 is shaping up to be pretty crazy too.)
Comments
So while you could say it wont be ready until 3rd quarter 2010 (really though? That's a pretty far off guess.) keep in mind they could be at 80% of everything, and then one month of hitting targets and boom, ready by late october.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a november/december release, but honestly, october isn't an inconceivable target. Also, didn't NS1 come out ON Halloween? I remember playing it the day it was out - man that was a trip.
Actually, I can still remember the last forum message I typed, replying to a post asking what 'role' people played. I said I was the guy who always managed to get a tonne of assists, yet no kills.
True to form, heh.
Personally in this case I dont think the release date is looking likely and I base this on the shaky ground of seeing no actual game footage, just script videos and renders and the conflicting impressions of how much work is still left to do by the very small dev team.
thanks cory for the update by the way, really nice to have some clarification (well, it should have been obvious, but well).
So everybody keep it down, i too don't think there is going to be a fall release, but the alpha should be out then and beta probably this year too. then it needs some time to balance the game, won't be a easy task and we will need alot of patience and discipline in those forum discussions (don't know if i'm looking forward to that..).
But yeah, as soon as the mapping tools are out i'm happy ;-)
People are being stupid and you are being cool about it.
I don't doubt the release schedule. I think around the time the Fade reveal is shown, is when alpha will be opened.
If I remember correctly, they said in some podcast some while ago that they are about 50 - 60% done.
So you might be telling the truth.
Or are they going to complete the entire game untill they release the Alpha?
As I know it, the Alpha version is usually the version witch is "Unplayable". Stuff is missing and bugs everywhere, crashes and so on.
Then the Beta is the one witch you actually can do something in the game.
Maybe they already have the Alpha version ready somewhere, but don't release it.
I belive they can't be that far away from completing the game. The 80% might be it.
I won't trust anyone else then the development team.
Ok, so I have utter faith in NS2 being totally awesome and being released before winter. However I can still theorize about other possible permutations. Here is where I'm at.
Unknown Worlds has 'angel' investors. So they fund a % of the dev cost. This is set to a schedule. With the pre-orders being somewhat sudden and more numerous than expected, this schedule could easily slide some what if necessary. I have a feeling much will be revealed at PAX (now the biggest game show in US?). I extrapolate that we could see an alpha/beta at Halloween.
This gorge tech engine or whatever, it is has a genius to it. Every aspect of the game design can be manipulated on the fly it seems. From the Tools vids you can see how texture modification is streamed in nearly instantly to the running engine code. The LUA code system is wickedly awesome. It's possible Charlie has been making weapons (pistol/knife/electazer) with place holder models to test gameplay feel. The LUA code makes code behavior changes exceedingly simple. These guys have made a LUA debugger that sells to other devs well. I think with the dev tools they have it makes the tweaking phase very simplistic and flexible. Just this tech framework they have created will be immensely amazing. I'm sure with this made-to-order tech, the gang are whipping up some wonderfully tasty gameplay. And quickly too!
"As I know it, the Alpha version is usually the version witch is "Unplayable". Stuff is missing and bugs everywhere, crashes and so on."
Alpha means the game is feature complete. It means every part of the game is put in place, but isn't that stable. Pretend you're in the alpha of NS1, it would be something like you can build all the buildings, but the Armoury falls through the ground, or the turrets don't fire at, I dunno, gorges. Stuff like that. The problem with actually HITTING alpha is that every single piece of the game has to work in some way. So the game could be 99% feature complete, but the lobby doesn't allow you to join the kharaa or something. That means it can't be alpha'd yet.
Let's just say that, in terms of alpha, I've worked on games that were <i>released to the public</i> before it hit alpha. It sold over a million copies, so it happens all over the place.
Maybe these guys are just a lot more careful ;)
Then Lets hope that the Natural Selecion 2 isn't like most games.
If anything, I sometimes wish they'd disappear and just crank it out instead of bothering to actually post a response in this forum. Honestly, you guys have very little clue on how press releases and development of something of this scale works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would you care to enlighten us as to your expertise in this subject? Based on your information you have informed us that you are in fact an expert.
+1 to trust in alpha soon. Screw the release date.
-1 to a regular update schedule (that would slow everything else down)
Kudos to Cory (my new hero) for answering multiple times even though his 1st answer was more than enough. Shame on the guy smart talking back to him like if the first answer wasn't enough. If you are so impatient about the game then stop asking the devs stupid follow up questions. Armory was DONE about 8 months ago, chew on that for 2 seconds.
Also many here seem to forget that UWE wasn't even directly responsible for this whole "Fall 2009" announcement. IIRC it was one of their Angel investor's that "leaked" that info putting the pressure on UWE.
Now as fans let's not add to that pressure. I think UWE pressures themselves enough. I want an NS2 alpha soon also, but I also care enough about the UWE team itself to back off on the whole "Are we there yet?" pressure adding childishness.
Enjoy the updates. Discuss the lerk, and the skulk, etc...
+1 to trust in alpha soon. Screw the release date.
-1 to a regular update schedule (that would slow everything else down)
Kudos to Cory (my new hero) for answering multiple times even though his 1st answer was more than enough. Shame on the guy smart talking back to him like if the first answer wasn't enough. If you are so impatient about the game then stop asking the devs stupid follow up questions. Armory was DONE about 8 months ago, chew on that for 2 seconds.
Also many here seem to forget that UWE wasn't even directly responsible for this whole "Fall 2009" announcement. IIRC it was one of their Angel investor's that "leaked" that info putting the pressure on UWE.
Now as fans let's not add to that pressure. I think UWE pressures themselves enough. I want an NS2 alpha soon also, but I also care enough about the UWE team itself to back off on the whole "Are we there yet?" pressure adding childishness.
Enjoy the updates. Discuss the lerk, and the skulk, etc...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I think the same. This thread has gone too far, it's time to shut it down.
Or are they going to complete the entire game untill they release the Alpha?
As I know it, the Alpha version is usually the version witch is "Unplayable". Stuff is missing and bugs everywhere, crashes and so on.
Then the Beta is the one witch you actually can do something in the game.
Maybe they already have the Alpha version ready somewhere, but don't release it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They probably have an alpha like this but they'll never release it. Gamers don't care what you call a release but the release must be stable and it can't be frustrating to play. I think the word "alpha" was used to entice more people to buy the special edition. I don't imagine alpha lasting too long when compared to beta; I envision it more of a "play beta for a week or two before those other guys."
Makes sence.
Agreed.
I've barely touched the forums for a week... and I'm still up to date on the situation.
/me waits for next twitter/news post.
I've barely touched the forums for a week... and I'm still up to date on the situation.
/me waits for next twitter/news post.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You quoting me reminded me how awful my grammar was : (
+1
Beta will probably include some tweaking, more fixes, and a good chance that there will be some testing.
This is all speculation, of course.
Yes, get the game out a week earlier rather than give us a weeks worth of partial information.
That said, PR is important, and skimping on it will only hurt you in the end, especially if you're going to compete in the Q4 season.(TBH Q1 2010 is shaping up to be pretty crazy too.)
######.