I didn't get the SE edition for black armour (My favourite colour is green after all) but for early access to the map making tools and of course to pay back all those awesome NS1 days.
The only problem I can see with black armour when the game goes public will be a lot of 'Where did you get that black armour?' during the game or on the forums.
It'll be interesting if we'll have black armour for all of the alpha or not, for balance reasons it would be a good idea to see how the game plays when every marine is either wearing black or green.
So yea, what fortune said about the black armour if everyone has it in alpha, everyone should have it if your in it, unless you can turn it off. I still want to see the male model for marine, still similar i guess.
<!--quoteo(post=1725406:date=Aug 28 2009, 01:59 PM:name=spaztick)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spaztick @ Aug 28 2009, 01:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725406"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Similar to running sv_pure 1/2 in Source game servers, I predict a way to force default textures and models to prevent cheating/skinning, and a side bonus is the special edition buyers will be the only ones with black armor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes the Alien Breeder server has such blocks. Something about how i don't use the stock-crap jetpacker model autokick... Ya that's why i don't play there lol.
<!--quoteo(post=1725408:date=Aug 28 2009, 02:03 PM:name=Fortune)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fortune @ Aug 28 2009, 02:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725408"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only problem I can see with black armour when the game goes public will be a lot of 'Where did you get that black armour?' during the game or on the forums.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can so relate to this with Battlefield and CE for WoW:WoTLK (cant wait for new expack, cataclysm). But this is often start to happens about 1-2 week after the game is released.
Does it really matter what you look like in game? It's not like you can look at yourself, you can only appreciate the armour on other players. The black armour is only there to say you've purchased the Special Edition, and I am sure that many people wouldn't really care. They are there for the game and not a fashion competition. I think that most of the people who got the SE are after the alpha and beta releases.
... a pink bellied gorge would be extremely cute though! <3 ...
I got it because I never got constellation and I was one of the only people who has been around since pre-vet status in eu ns to never have an icon. See you in 7 years time when I've still got black armour, you ######!
I also played about a billion hours of NS1, so I guess it's only fair to pay some extra for NS2. Also Fana wants me.
<!--quoteo(post=1725443:date=Aug 29 2009, 12:55 PM:name=Melisande)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melisande @ Aug 29 2009, 12:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725443"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does it really matter what you look like in game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Go have a look at any TF2 forum and see the amount of chat being dropped about hats, people care.
<!--quoteo(post=1725467:date=Aug 29 2009, 07:29 PM:name=steppin'razor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steppin'razor @ Aug 29 2009, 07:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725467"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Go have a look at any TF2 forum and see the amount of chat being dropped about hats, people care.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I doubt that those who frequent the forums speak for all TF2 players, or even come close to making up 1/10th of the player base. Then again, I've never played TF2 or visited their forums! So if you say so, you say so.
<!--quoteo(post=1725469:date=Aug 29 2009, 04:57 AM:name=Melisande)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melisande @ Aug 29 2009, 04:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I doubt that those who frequent the forums speak for all TF2 players, or even come close to making up 1/10th of the player base. Then again, I've never played TF2 or visited their forums! So if you say so, you say so.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*sigh* I've yet to get one single F'n hat in TF2... it sucks.. and I don't sit on Idle Servers or use other idle techniques to try and get them because it is a random number generator system and it has to screw people over and bless others, I am just as likely to get one from being on 1 minute as I am 1 week (I feel anyway).. so in order to reduce the pain I just gave up all hope of getting any. ....yay.....
But so yeah... people do care. A lot of people care. I think 1/3 of the people without any hats are like me... given up hope to cope with the odds of winning the hat lottery.
I see people get hats... noticed 10 or so been given while I was playing (just ones I noticed)... seen well over 100 people with hats... but... no hats for me. Seen a few people with 3+ hats even.. ugh.
<!--quoteo(post=1725470:date=Aug 29 2009, 05:13 AM:name=Alienami)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alienami @ Aug 29 2009, 05:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725470"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->*sigh* I've yet to get one single F'n hat in TF2... it sucks.. and I don't sit on Idle Servers or use other idle techniques to try and get them because it is a random number generator system and it has to screw people over and bless others, I am just as likely to get one from being on 1 minute as I am 1 week (I feel anyway).. so in order to reduce the pain I just gave up all hope of getting any. ....yay.....
But so yeah... people do care. A lot of people care. I think 1/3 of the people without any hats are like me... given up hope to cope with the odds of winning the hat lottery.
I see people get hats... noticed 10 or so been given while I was playing (just ones I noticed)... seen well over 100 people with hats... but... no hats for me. Seen a few people with 3+ hats even.. ugh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i played TF2 then when they change to random drop of items, and was just getting what i had before and ever any new thing (well new gun to spy and bow to sniper, thats it). But no hat or hardly any new drops i gave it up.
I play now and then, but meh its not fun when other has more then you.
<!--quoteo(post=1725469:date=Aug 29 2009, 07:57 PM:name=Melisande)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melisande @ Aug 29 2009, 07:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I doubt that those who frequent the forums speak for all TF2 players, or even come close to making up 1/10th of the player base. Then again, I've never played TF2 or visited their forums! So if you say so, you say so.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I do say so
<!--quoteo(post=1725470:date=Aug 29 2009, 08:13 PM:name=Alienami)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alienami @ Aug 29 2009, 08:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725470"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->*sigh* I've yet to get one single F'n hat in TF2... it sucks.. and I don't sit on Idle Servers or use other idle techniques to try and get them because it is a random number generator system and it has to screw people over and bless others, I am just as likely to get one from being on 1 minute as I am 1 week (I feel anyway).. so in order to reduce the pain I just gave up all hope of getting any. ....yay.....
But so yeah... people do care. A lot of people care. I think 1/3 of the people without any hats are like me... given up hope to cope with the odds of winning the hat lottery.
I see people get hats... noticed 10 or so been given while I was playing (just ones I noticed)... seen well over 100 people with hats... but... no hats for me. Seen a few people with 3+ hats even.. ugh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So these hats come free, in game? They aren't purchasable and they don't come with any other goodies? Now I am thinking that this TF2 hat matter isn't a fair comparison to the Natural Selection 2 Special Edition purchase. I'd say a closer comparison would be the Killing Floor DLC character pack, which people have to pay for. There you would notice that there is an equal balance of people who don't care and those who do. I guess it depends on the game and if things involve money or not.
slayer20Killed a man once.Join Date: 2007-12-13Member: 63157Members, Reinforced - Shadow
edited August 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1725492:date=Aug 29 2009, 07:04 PM:name=steppin'razor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steppin'razor @ Aug 29 2009, 07:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725492"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The point, which I'm not sure you got, was that people care about their appearance even in an FPS<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think people like to customize their character in an FPS because they want it to look like themselves or their "dream character" which can add to the immersion that they are actually that character.
Edit: I just kind of jumped in. But I thought I'd add that.
I got the standard because green looks cooler, and imho it will work as camouflage, even with the infestation as the background, unlike the all-black uniform which will contrast heavily with every single piece of marine structure and environment, which are green or blend well with green. With any luck, i'll find other players with green armor in every game and we'll be able to team up better in game... for example when your waiting for your teammates to spawn, you can easily spot the green ones and then get back into the fight. We can also cover each other in heavy battle where if i see a skulk going for a green marine, then i'll react to their situation over a black marine.
<!--quoteo(post=1725329:date=Aug 28 2009, 02:51 AM:name=CoolCookieCooks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CoolCookieCooks @ Aug 28 2009, 02:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725329"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There isnt a real point to 'hacking' the black armor, 90% of us are going to have it anyway, atleast for the alpha.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...um since you need the SE to get INTO the alpha, I'm pretty sure 100% of us will have it.
<!--quoteo(post=1725492:date=Aug 30 2009, 05:04 AM:name=steppin'razor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steppin'razor @ Aug 30 2009, 05:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725492"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The point, which I'm not sure you got, was that people care about their appearance even in an FPS<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Where did I ever say that all players don't? I didn't. I am starting to think that you don't understand, but that's okay. :)
<!--quoteo(post=1725471:date=Aug 29 2009, 05:28 AM:name=NeXuZ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeXuZ @ Aug 29 2009, 05:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725471"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i played TF2 then when they change to random drop of items, and was just getting what i had before and ever any new thing (well new gun to spy and bow to sniper, thats it). But no hat or hardly any new drops i gave it up.
I play now and then, but meh its not fun when other has more then you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am sure you know this, but just in case.. You can unlock the new weapons like the old weapons with achievements. And I forget but I think they adjusted the drop rates of the items... but the hats have an insanely low drop rate it seems to me. I managed to unlock all the new weapons via drops before the achievement system was put back in.
And to the questions.. the content is free. Paying for the Killing Floor characters isn't the same as either TF2 or NS2 SE Pre-Order.. I am sort of getting lost on where this conversation is going. lol
My original point was just that in FPS games people care about what they look like. It had nothing to do with DLC or whatever else people started going on about.
side note:
edit: Every 4 hours, 17 minutes, and 10 seconds you roll an 84 sided die and if it shows a "1" (1.1905%) then you get a hat.
Thats the hat drop rate algorithm that was determined. Pretty cruel odds if you ask me.
<!--quoteo(post=1725494:date=Aug 29 2009, 09:07 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Aug 29 2009, 09:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725494"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I got the standard because green looks cooler, and imho it will work as camouflage, even with the infestation as the background, unlike the all-black uniform which will contrast heavily with every single piece of marine structure and environment, which are green or blend well with green. With any luck, i'll find other players with green armor in every game and we'll be able to team up better in game... for example when your waiting for your teammates to spawn, you can easily spot the green ones and then get back into the fight. We can also cover each other in heavy battle where if i see a skulk going for a green marine, then i'll react to their situation over a black marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I'm going to look for black marines, so if i see a skulk going for a black marine, then i'll react to their situation over a green marine, what do you say to that? :p
<!--quoteo(post=1725580:date=Aug 30 2009, 01:18 PM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Aug 30 2009, 01:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725580"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, I'm going to look for black marines, so if i see a skulk going for a black marine, then i'll react to their situation over a green marine, what do you say to that? :p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1725561:date=Aug 30 2009, 11:09 PM:name=JAmazon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JAmazon @ Aug 30 2009, 11:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725561"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thats a pretty oddball stochastic algorithm :P I guess they made it super cryptic so nerds like us wouldn't find out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hence me running my TF2 idler right now
eh yea this is a problem i know some friend of mine(meE!!!-- posibly) who bought the se for 3 reasons, first to support devs, second to get in alpha and third, well how awesome would be if you were appointed squad leader and were black armored, different from the rest, it would make you distinguished. really that can be overidden by someone who just mods the armor for thier server, so i'd be happy with just a constellation rather then armor, but im all up for both.. ^^
Over the next few days we'll be removing all TF2 items that were earned using external idling applications. We're going to adopt a zero tolerance policy for external applications used to manipulate the persistent item system. Due to us not having a policy in place prior to today, this time we're only removing the items earned through cheating the system. Going forward, if we find users using external applications, we'll remove all of their items. If you're interested, only about 4.5% of the players in TF2's community will be affected by this cleansing process.
Meanwhile, everyone who took the moral high road will soon be finding a new hat in their inventory. We've also significantly increased the chance of finding any of the existing hats.
We realize there is a high level of demand for items, and we're still working on systems to allow you to find them in new ways (via Trading, and crafting duplicates into desired items). However, we need to draw the line at running external applications."
hahahaha wow, thats pretty retarded. The whole idea of item unlocks in FPS's is retarded...If i want to grind like an RPG ill go play an RPG, FPS's are all about individual skill on a level playing field.
<!--quoteo(post=1725940:date=Sep 2 2009, 07:16 PM:name=JAmazon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JAmazon @ Sep 2 2009, 07:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725940"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->hahahaha wow, thats pretty retarded. The whole idea of item unlocks in FPS's is retarded...If i want to grind like an RPG ill go play an RPG, FPS's are all about individual skill on a level playing field.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People don't want TF2 to turn into WoW. (I HATE that game.)
I have mixed feelings... I like customization, but I had random loot and other crap from MMOs that are grinds and time sinks. . I didn't mind manually unlocking weapons, gave me something to do.. I did hate unlocking weapons on classes I didn't play often or EVER (heavy).. I do like the Call of Duty system and R6 Vegas 2.. so conflicted though.
I still hope someday NS2 will have some customization features.. but yet I don't. lol
Just as long as no game goes down the route of EA and Battlefield 2. Sure you can play the vanilla game, but if you wanted it all you had to pay for overpriced addon packs that gave advantages over those who didn't have them and got people disconnected come map change. The maps were the real kick in the teeth for that, it was pretty much mandatory to buy those 'optional' addon packs.
Killing Floor however was an exception for me, they gave you new weapons and maps for everyone, so it was a level playing field, but charged $2 for optional extra character skins for those who wanted them and as a way to support the devs. They definitely were not required to play though, as the game came with 6 skins already.
<!--quoteo(post=1725940:date=Sep 2 2009, 07:16 PM:name=JAmazon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JAmazon @ Sep 2 2009, 07:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725940"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->hahahaha wow, thats pretty retarded. The whole idea of item unlocks in FPS's is retarded...If i want to grind like an RPG ill go play an RPG, FPS's are all about individual skill on a level playing field.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Q F T ! ! !
Black Armor was a bad idea to begin with.
Back to the original topic. I think that people running All black armor servers are a non-issue for devs. It's going to happen no matter what. Even in TF2 (which is not supposed to be nearly as modable as NS2) there are servers which unlock all the hats for you if you play for a slot reservation. I'm sure stuff like that will happen with NS2, it's not something the devs should waste their time fighting.
Comments
The only problem I can see with black armour when the game goes public will be a lot of 'Where did you get that black armour?' during the game or on the forums.
It'll be interesting if we'll have black armour for all of the alpha or not, for balance reasons it would be a good idea to see how the game plays when every marine is either wearing black or green.
Yes the Alien Breeder server has such blocks. Something about how i don't use the stock-crap jetpacker model autokick... Ya that's why i don't play there lol.
I can so relate to this with Battlefield and CE for WoW:WoTLK (cant wait for new expack, cataclysm). But this is often start to happens about 1-2 week after the game is released.
... a pink bellied gorge would be extremely cute though! <3 ...
I also played about a billion hours of NS1, so I guess it's only fair to pay some extra for NS2. Also Fana wants me.
Go have a look at any TF2 forum and see the amount of chat being dropped about hats, people care.
I doubt that those who frequent the forums speak for all TF2 players, or even come close to making up 1/10th of the player base. Then again, I've never played TF2 or visited their forums! So if you say so, you say so.
*sigh* I've yet to get one single F'n hat in TF2... it sucks.. and I don't sit on Idle Servers or use other idle techniques to try and get them because it is a random number generator system and it has to screw people over and bless others, I am just as likely to get one from being on 1 minute as I am 1 week (I feel anyway).. so in order to reduce the pain I just gave up all hope of getting any. ....yay.....
But so yeah... people do care. A lot of people care. I think 1/3 of the people without any hats are like me... given up hope to cope with the odds of winning the hat lottery.
I see people get hats... noticed 10 or so been given while I was playing (just ones I noticed)... seen well over 100 people with hats... but... no hats for me. Seen a few people with 3+ hats even.. ugh.
But so yeah... people do care. A lot of people care. I think 1/3 of the people without any hats are like me... given up hope to cope with the odds of winning the hat lottery.
I see people get hats... noticed 10 or so been given while I was playing (just ones I noticed)... seen well over 100 people with hats... but... no hats for me. Seen a few people with 3+ hats even.. ugh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i played TF2 then when they change to random drop of items, and was just getting what i had before and ever any new thing (well new gun to spy and bow to sniper, thats it). But no hat or hardly any new drops i gave it up.
I play now and then, but meh its not fun when other has more then you.
I do say so
But so yeah... people do care. A lot of people care. I think 1/3 of the people without any hats are like me... given up hope to cope with the odds of winning the hat lottery.
I see people get hats... noticed 10 or so been given while I was playing (just ones I noticed)... seen well over 100 people with hats... but... no hats for me. Seen a few people with 3+ hats even.. ugh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So these hats come free, in game? They aren't purchasable and they don't come with any other goodies? Now I am thinking that this TF2 hat matter isn't a fair comparison to the Natural Selection 2 Special Edition purchase. I'd say a closer comparison would be the Killing Floor DLC character pack, which people have to pay for. There you would notice that there is an equal balance of people who don't care and those who do. I guess it depends on the game and if things involve money or not.
I think people like to customize their character in an FPS because they want it to look like themselves or their "dream character" which can add to the immersion that they are actually that character.
Edit: I just kind of jumped in. But I thought I'd add that.
...um since you need the SE to get INTO the alpha, I'm pretty sure 100% of us will have it.
Where did I ever say that all players don't? I didn't. I am starting to think that you don't understand, but that's okay. :)
I play now and then, but meh its not fun when other has more then you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am sure you know this, but just in case.. You can unlock the new weapons like the old weapons with achievements. And I forget but I think they adjusted the drop rates of the items... but the hats have an insanely low drop rate it seems to me. I managed to unlock all the new weapons via drops before the achievement system was put back in.
And to the questions.. the content is free. Paying for the Killing Floor characters isn't the same as either TF2 or NS2 SE Pre-Order.. I am sort of getting lost on where this conversation is going. lol
side note:
edit: Every 4 hours, 17 minutes, and 10 seconds you roll an 84 sided die and if it shows a "1" (1.1905%) then you get a hat.
Thats the hat drop rate algorithm that was determined. Pretty cruel odds if you ask me.
Well, I'm going to look for black marines, so if i see a skulk going for a black marine, then i'll react to their situation over a green marine, what do you say to that? :p
Sounds fair to me :P
Hence me running my TF2 idler right now
<a href="http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2787" target="_blank">http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2787</a>
"Incoming!
September 2, 2009 - Erik Johnson
Over the next few days we'll be removing all TF2 items that were earned using external idling applications. We're going to adopt a zero tolerance policy for external applications used to manipulate the persistent item system. Due to us not having a policy in place prior to today, this time we're only removing the items earned through cheating the system. Going forward, if we find users using external applications, we'll remove all of their items. If you're interested, only about 4.5% of the players in TF2's community will be affected by this cleansing process.
Meanwhile, everyone who took the moral high road will soon be finding a new hat in their inventory. We've also significantly increased the chance of finding any of the existing hats.
We realize there is a high level of demand for items, and we're still working on systems to allow you to find them in new ways (via Trading, and crafting duplicates into desired items). However, we need to draw the line at running external applications."
People don't want TF2 to turn into WoW. (I HATE that game.)
I have mixed feelings... I like customization, but I had random loot and other crap from MMOs that are grinds and time sinks. . I didn't mind manually unlocking weapons, gave me something to do.. I did hate unlocking weapons on classes I didn't play often or EVER (heavy).. I do like the Call of Duty system and R6 Vegas 2.. so conflicted though.
I still hope someday NS2 will have some customization features.. but yet I don't. lol
Killing Floor however was an exception for me, they gave you new weapons and maps for everyone, so it was a level playing field, but charged $2 for optional extra character skins for those who wanted them and as a way to support the devs. They definitely were not required to play though, as the game came with 6 skins already.
Q F T ! ! !
Black Armor was a bad idea to begin with.
Back to the original topic. I think that people running All black armor servers are a non-issue for devs. It's going to happen no matter what. Even in TF2 (which is not supposed to be nearly as modable as NS2) there are servers which unlock all the hats for you if you play for a slot reservation. I'm sure stuff like that will happen with NS2, it's not something the devs should waste their time fighting.