Like I said my friend cheats for months now, and VAC did nothing. absolutely nothing. I was the first surprised So, dont hide behind VAC it's useless. :(
Best anticheat? i dont think so. The bests games with anticheat are pure RTS, because it's simple to detect. And there is still working cheats for these games.
<!--quoteo(post=1745313:date=Dec 31 2009, 09:52 PM:name=th0r)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (th0r @ Dec 31 2009, 09:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745313"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do you think this cheater would be easy to spot:
Yes I agree that identifying cheaters nowadays is nearly impossible to do with certainty, but I believe it's reasonable to be suspicious when you 1) see someone soar ahead of their entire team in kills and do things like take out a roomfull of skulks with a single clip, and 2) have a game where it is possible to gain a great advantage from cheating without making oneself obvious. And when the person with the insane K:D ratio has a name like "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeblabcockassb1tch" and is spouting immature racist nonsense over voip, a certain picture starts to emerge.
While I suppose it's true that there will always be cheats of some kind in every game, I don't think it's true that they have to dominate gameplay. Developers can do a lot to build anti-cheating measures into their games (e.g. Blizzard's <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden_%28software%29" target="_blank">borderline draconian anti-cheat software</a>) That's the main reason why I was wondering if the dev's are planning on taking any serious measures against cheating in NS2.
The other reason was that I feel NS is a game where cheating makes a huge difference. Hacks in some games make relatively little difference (e.g. Battlefield 2 Project Reality), but in NS they can make all the difference. Maps are small and the action moves very fast, so there is a big emphasis on reaction time. Also, the things you need to be good at to be skilled at the game (e.g. tracking aliens as they fly across the screen and spotting them in dark corners) are things that even a total noob can do like a pro with the aid of h4x.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It would be VERY VERY obvious this player is cheating to me if I was looking at demo's instead of videos. His crosshair locks into the center point of the opponent's models. Additionally, his movement is horrible, he doesn't have any of the self preservation patterns good players use. He also has no idea when you shoot and when to wait, a good player rarely unloads a clip wildly.
It's hard to see when you have a top tier player doing all the right things already, and THEN they add something like this with a couple minor modifications (there's a version of one of these hacks that snaps in curved lines rather than diagonals, which makes it really hard to indentify the snap with a slowmo demo, there's another version that will only lock onto a model when the crosshair has touched the target, there is also a version that adds a slight random offset to the lock on so you can't just look for traced fire locked onto the center of a model). When it's done right, I agree, a hack is virtually impossible to positively identify. That being said, kill death ratio is a poor indicator in NS of weather a player is hacking, at least alone. It's a game where with a little bit of luck, a little bit of skill, and a little bit of tactical knowledge you can run up pretty impressive kill death scores completely clean. Often a good K/D is just a good player having an unusually lucky game.
If you see a marine run up an unbelievably high KD 3-4 games in a row, he never plays alien, and his play gets crappy or he quits as soon as you start spectating him, then you're probably looking at a hacker. Some other good indicators, if you play as a skulk and simply bhop full speed at horizontals to the player, or strafe back and forth, and he still kills you in line of sight time, that is suspicious. If you're a lerk and you're flying evasion and it feels like there aren't any shots missing you at all, that's is suspicious. If it happens once or twice, maby it's luck, if it's consistent and testable it's time to spectate and record a demo.
I've been on the website in the end of the video. You can see that their cheats are VAC-proof and spectate/screenshot/demo - proof.
Cheaters always had a lot of advances on protection system.
Edit : another video from another hack website <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0ZOtVXoqiU&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0ZOtVXoqiU...feature=related</a>
I saw this guy on a french server today "Le bordel de la dinde" something like this. He was playing on a co-map. I was suspicious but his name was "deviant" like the website, so i dont have doubts anymore.
I think it would be cool that NS2 team learn about cheats and how they're made, on these websites, so they can bring usefull protection. I think some people can wait somes extra days to have NS2, in order to be sure that NS2 league and servers will be without cheat.
Another video which present (without suspicious link this time) all the basics cheats available on NS The more difficult to spot being the Wallhack, or the advanced system aimbot (where there is naturals curves and not direct aim). <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGBxYqFrt4Y" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGBxYqFrt4Y</a>
All of thoses cheaters are easy to spot on spectate mode. But with more advanced cheat its quite impossible. (moreover when it's spectator-proof)
Obviously the developers know a small minority of players use cheats and if cheats become a problem after the release of NS2 I'm sure they will attempt to do something about it. While people may be able to circumvent traditional anti-cheat software UWE could just hand out permanent bans for anyone blatantly cheating.
<!--quoteo(post=1745325:date=Jan 1 2010, 09:16 AM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Jan 1 2010, 09:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745325"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like I said my friend cheats for months now, and VAC did nothing. absolutely nothing. I was the first surprised So, dont hide behind VAC it's useless. :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Possible to circumvent =/= Easy to circumvent
VAC does what it says on the label: it keeps cheaters from swamping games in general. Not all of them, but most of them, better than other more intrusive systems (PunkBuster, GameGuard, etc.). This isn't a question of perfection but of what's best on the market, and least taxing on the consumer. VAC is one of those if not the best among such solutions so, like I said... Not much room for improvement there.
As a sidenote, unless your friend is using a Cafe account, it's likely he'll be getting a knock on the door in the near future.
<!--quoteo(post=1745407:date=Jan 1 2010, 09:56 PM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Jan 1 2010, 09:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745407"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if you can find someone called "[ES]Legion of Aire" on server he has an aimbot and is playing while I post.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1745409:date=Jan 2 2010, 06:35 AM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Jan 2 2010, 06:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745409"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe it's an evidence for people who keep saying that after 7years of ns, and thanks to VAC and admins there isn't any cheater remaining, CQFD.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks to VAC there's always going to be cheating: delayed bans mean cheaters get a free reign for a while.
...Which sounds pretty stupid until you realise that delayed bans also mean that people who actually make the cheats have little way of knowing whether or not they're detected, thus making sure the servers safe from them in the long run.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1745414:date=Jan 2 2010, 06:29 AM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Jan 2 2010, 06:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745414"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->..., thus making sure valve & co get an extra amount of money for selling another "account".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here's a suggestion: Get a couple demos of these oh-so-prolific cheaters and post them to back up your accusations. I haven't come across a blatant cheater in a long time, and if I had a dollar every time I saw hackusations leveled at a legitimate player, I could buy a new car.
Well i would but they chose server where only admin can spectate... I saw him while i was dead, for some sec, and he was getting Each lmg bullet into a fade blinking with random complex path and different acceleration. The fade said "aimbot" in the same time of me.
Anyway if i see him on another server i'll try to make a demo.
<!--quoteo(post=1745415:date=Jan 2 2010, 07:56 AM:name=pSyk0mAn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pSyk0mAn @ Jan 2 2010, 07:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745415"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fixed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Getting a new account is the reset button for absolutely everything on-line, that's just how things are. Otherwise, I don't see how it wouldn't be obvious that making people spend more money - plus lose their permanent IDs and go through masking hurdles - isn't a major deterrent.
Coolbox kiddos, 95/100 is you being bad. Rest are cheats and yes aimbot is easy to detect even if it has random factor. Keep in mind that wh is harder to detect and it requires some knowledge of the game but isnt that hard espescilly if you get few competitive opinions.
I havent seen cheaters in NS in years, once I saw a speedhacker who actually left after being asked to "I just wanted to test it, sorry". Cheating isnt problem really, if you doubt someone post demos but if you dont bother just admit hes better even if he is cheating.
<!--quoteo(post=1745418:date=Jan 2 2010, 12:37 AM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Jan 2 2010, 12:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745418"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well i would but they chose server where only admin can spectate...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why are people so obsessed with cheaters, its always going to be present. But not every good person you see playing is a cheater, they need to get over that mindset. These threads are pointless at best.
<!--quoteo(post=1745453:date=Jan 2 2010, 03:11 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Jan 2 2010, 03:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745453"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Damn these cunning cheaters!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> An interesting partitially off-topic thought: Is it possible to reproduce the somewhat rare no-respawn bug that apparently has something to do with -duck? I think it still exists, no idea if it can be reproduced. That would allow people to stick to spec even while the spectating itself isn't allowed.
I think the problem is that its really hard to understand the height of skill of some players in NS. Hard as in, like, if you don't put a whole lot of time into the game and don't venture into the competitive aspect you really have no idea, hard. Otherwise, you immediately call "HACKS."
The game just has such a high skill ceiling, which is personally one of the reasons I love it so much. You really CAN be rediculously amazing, given enough practice (and inherent skill, arguably). There are players that are going to sometimes track fades with their entire lmg clip, and players who can unload a pistol clip as fast as or faster than a pistol script. Or untouchable shotgun-marines who seem to shoot you before you come around the corner.
I may have not played for a while, but ("Back in may day!") when I used to play, I would consistently go into pubs (classic, no combat thnx), b-hop around, go 19-1 (etc etc) without any trouble, occasionally solo-shotgun fades (LMG on the super lucky days), 180 shotgun skulks, pistol pistol-knife kill, all that rape etc, and I STILL wasn't on the level of many amazing players, who easily put me to shame.
Even celerity fades move slowly and are easy to track no matter where they go at higher levels. The only thing I've never seen consistently hit by anyone (some have come close, though) are good lerks with LMG or pistol. If the game had become bigger, though, you could definitely have expected to see it among the top players more and more.
There is very little difference between the best marines and aimbots (5-10% at most). When someone like tane, green or wltrs get on a shotgun killstreak in the early game even the very best opposing alien teams will fold in two towards them and all you can hope to do is hit the marine resources as much as possible, spore as much as you can and hopefully cause a beacon from a baserush before you lose too many resource towers. It can sometimes be literally futile to attack them at all.
VAC is an 80/20 solution, and that's <b>okay</b>. Anybody shocked that some cheats get past it would be even more shocked by the anti-virus market.
It prevents hacks from becoming very widespread, it curtails massive usage, and brings the amount down to something which can be addressed by other schemes, such as cross-server shared ban lists.
80-20% in the beggining yeah. The problem is that once a cheat is know as working, it becomes very fast the only available on the web. (in fact that's the opposite, not working cheats are known very fast and deleted) So when everyone looks on the web, they fall on 95% of working cheats. so 95% of cheaters don't have any problem with VAC.
<!--quoteo(post=1745645:date=Jan 4 2010, 08:03 AM:name=Terr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Terr @ Jan 4 2010, 08:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745645"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->VAC is an 80/20 solution, and that's <b>okay</b>. Anybody shocked that some cheats get past it would be even more shocked by the anti-virus market.
It prevents hacks from becoming very widespread, it curtails massive usage, and brings the amount down to something which can be addressed by other schemes, such as cross-server shared ban lists.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <b>Precisely.</b>
We don't live in a perfect world, it makes perfect sense to account for a certain percentage of failure. It's just adequate.
<!--quoteo(post=1745646:date=Jan 4 2010, 08:08 AM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Jan 4 2010, 08:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745646"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->80-20% in the beggining yeah. The problem is that once a cheat is know as working, it becomes very fast the only available on the web.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> VAC actually protects against that too: delayed bans mean that such things appear very seldom, and once they do, VAC team simply issues a direct response.
<!--quoteo(post=1745646:date=Jan 4 2010, 08:08 AM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Jan 4 2010, 08:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745646"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So when everyone looks on the web, they fall on 95% of working cheats. so 95% of cheaters don't have any problem with VAC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Before they're banned, yes.
What don't you understand ? I said that thoes 95% were working! By working i mean : "not banned" And by banned i mean "by VAC", that's implicate the "differed time" that VAC wait before they ban someone.
So, for you, from the beggining :
1) A cheat is released. 2) the cheat is tested 3) they wait some months, till VAC decide to ban (they never wait 1years.... or they would be useless) 4) if the test account is banned after a few months, the cheat is removed , so no one can be trap. 5) if the test account isn't banned after a few months, they put the cheat public with the "VAC-proof" indication. 6) players looking for cheats arrives 7) They all take the VAC-proof cheat (except idiots). 8) 95% of cheaters aren't Banned.
<!--quoteo(post=1745662:date=Jan 4 2010, 10:40 AM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Jan 4 2010, 10:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745662"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I said that thoes 95% were working! By working i mean : "not banned" And by banned i mean "by VAC"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I see. Do you have anything to back that up then?
If not... Understand, that is very, very pointless. I saw a total of two cheaters in my 1,000+ hours spent with Valve games, and that observation holds just as much ground as yours.
<!--quoteo(post=1745662:date=Jan 4 2010, 10:40 AM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Jan 4 2010, 10:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745662"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1) A cheat is released. 2) the cheat is tested 3) they wait some months, till VAC decide to ban (they never wait 1years.... or they would be useless) 4) if the test account is banned after a few months, the cheat is removed , so no one can be trap. 5) if the test account isn't banned after a few months, they put the cheat public with the "VAC-proof" indication. 6) players looking for cheats arrives 7) They all take the VAC-proof cheat (except idiots). 8) 95% of cheaters aren't Banned.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The problem with that theory is: you assume it's possible to circumvent the system on the first try. With that in mind, the progress would actually look more like this: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1)A cheat is released and tested; 2)Author waits three months; 3)Cheat is detected; 4)Repeat step one through four a dozen times before a workable approach is determined, at which point author dies of old age.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course, there is such thing as chance, and sometimes smart people get around to circumventing it after a few months or years or so. At which point: a)They likely start demanding sizeable payment for it; b)Cheat is randomly nullified as part of a routine update; c)Cheat is deployed and enters semi-wide use, at which point VAC is specifically amended to detect it.
The only "true" VAC-proof cheating require employment of a "Cafe" account, which can only be secured through professional legal fraud and a sizeable monetary investment, or infiltrating a low-security Cafe itself. This can still be nullified granted public complaints about the issue.
Comments
So, dont hide behind VAC it's useless. :(
Best anticheat? i dont think so.
The bests games with anticheat are pure RTS, because it's simple to detect. And there is still working cheats for these games.
Best option against cheaters (and all other jerks) are active admins / moderators / vips on servers.
The game should have a decent permission-system and a voting-mechanism that allows players on the server to votekick players.
Have a look at dystopia (HL2-mod) with it's voting-system... racist on server? votekick. voicespam? afk? teamkilling? votekick.
Works really nice.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw4jnopdo9U" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw4jnopdo9U</a>
Yes I agree that identifying cheaters nowadays is nearly impossible to do with certainty, but I believe it's reasonable to be suspicious when you 1) see someone soar ahead of their entire team in kills and do things like take out a roomfull of skulks with a single clip, and 2) have a game where it is possible to gain a great advantage from cheating without making oneself obvious. And when the person with the insane K:D ratio has a name like "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeblabcockassb1tch" and is spouting immature racist nonsense over voip, a certain picture starts to emerge.
While I suppose it's true that there will always be cheats of some kind in every game, I don't think it's true that they have to dominate gameplay. Developers can do a lot to build anti-cheating measures into their games (e.g. Blizzard's <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden_%28software%29" target="_blank">borderline draconian anti-cheat software</a>) That's the main reason why I was wondering if the dev's are planning on taking any serious measures against cheating in NS2.
The other reason was that I feel NS is a game where cheating makes a huge difference. Hacks in some games make relatively little difference (e.g. Battlefield 2 Project Reality), but in NS they can make all the difference. Maps are small and the action moves very fast, so there is a big emphasis on reaction time. Also, the things you need to be good at to be skilled at the game (e.g. tracking aliens as they fly across the screen and spotting them in dark corners) are things that even a total noob can do like a pro with the aid of h4x.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be VERY VERY obvious this player is cheating to me if I was looking at demo's instead of videos. His crosshair locks into the center point of the opponent's models. Additionally, his movement is horrible, he doesn't have any of the self preservation patterns good players use. He also has no idea when you shoot and when to wait, a good player rarely unloads a clip wildly.
It's hard to see when you have a top tier player doing all the right things already, and THEN they add something like this with a couple minor modifications (there's a version of one of these hacks that snaps in curved lines rather than diagonals, which makes it really hard to indentify the snap with a slowmo demo, there's another version that will only lock onto a model when the crosshair has touched the target, there is also a version that adds a slight random offset to the lock on so you can't just look for traced fire locked onto the center of a model). When it's done right, I agree, a hack is virtually impossible to positively identify. That being said, kill death ratio is a poor indicator in NS of weather a player is hacking, at least alone. It's a game where with a little bit of luck, a little bit of skill, and a little bit of tactical knowledge you can run up pretty impressive kill death scores completely clean. Often a good K/D is just a good player having an unusually lucky game.
If you see a marine run up an unbelievably high KD 3-4 games in a row, he never plays alien, and his play gets crappy or he quits as soon as you start spectating him, then you're probably looking at a hacker. Some other good indicators, if you play as a skulk and simply bhop full speed at horizontals to the player, or strafe back and forth, and he still kills you in line of sight time, that is suspicious. If you're a lerk and you're flying evasion and it feels like there aren't any shots missing you at all, that's is suspicious. If it happens once or twice, maby it's luck, if it's consistent and testable it's time to spectate and record a demo.
You can see that their cheats are VAC-proof and spectate/screenshot/demo - proof.
Cheaters always had a lot of advances on protection system.
Edit : another video from another hack website
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0ZOtVXoqiU&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0ZOtVXoqiU...feature=related</a>
I saw this guy on a french server today "Le bordel de la dinde" something like this. He was playing on a co-map.
I was suspicious but his name was "deviant" like the website, so i dont have doubts anymore.
I think it would be cool that NS2 team learn about cheats and how they're made, on these websites, so they can bring usefull protection.
I think some people can wait somes extra days to have NS2, in order to be sure that NS2 league and servers will be without cheat.
Another video which present (without suspicious link this time) all the basics cheats available on NS
The more difficult to spot being the Wallhack, or the advanced system aimbot (where there is naturals curves and not direct aim).
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGBxYqFrt4Y" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGBxYqFrt4Y</a>
All of thoses cheaters are easy to spot on spectate mode.
But with more advanced cheat its quite impossible. (moreover when it's spectator-proof)
By the way they look a bit like furios sp ;D
Obviously the developers know a small minority of players use cheats and if cheats become a problem after the release of NS2 I'm sure they will attempt to do something about it. While people may be able to circumvent traditional anti-cheat software UWE could just hand out permanent bans for anyone blatantly cheating.
There isn't much else to say.
So, dont hide behind VAC it's useless. :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Possible to circumvent =/= Easy to circumvent
VAC does what it says on the label: it keeps cheaters from swamping games in general. Not all of them, but most of them, better than other more intrusive systems (PunkBuster, GameGuard, etc.). This isn't a question of perfection but of what's best on the market, and least taxing on the consumer. VAC is one of those if not the best among such solutions so, like I said... Not much room for improvement there.
As a sidenote, unless your friend is using a Cafe account, it's likely he'll be getting a knock on the door in the near future.
We don't care.
Thanks to VAC there's always going to be cheating: delayed bans mean cheaters get a free reign for a while.
...Which sounds pretty stupid until you realise that delayed bans also mean that people who actually make the cheats have little way of knowing whether or not they're detected, thus making sure the servers safe from them in the long run.
Fixed.
I saw him while i was dead, for some sec, and he was getting Each lmg bullet into a fade blinking with random complex path and different acceleration.
The fade said "aimbot" in the same time of me.
Anyway if i see him on another server i'll try to make a demo.
Getting a new account is the reset button for absolutely everything on-line, that's just how things are. Otherwise, I don't see how it wouldn't be obvious that making people spend more money - plus lose their permanent IDs and go through masking hurdles - isn't a major deterrent.
I havent seen cheaters in NS in years, once I saw a speedhacker who actually left after being asked to "I just wanted to test it, sorry". Cheating isnt problem really, if you doubt someone post demos but if you dont bother just admit hes better even if he is cheating.
Damn these cunning cheaters!
An interesting partitially off-topic thought: Is it possible to reproduce the somewhat rare no-respawn bug that apparently has something to do with -duck? I think it still exists, no idea if it can be reproduced. That would allow people to stick to spec even while the spectating itself isn't allowed.
i hope very limited values in ns2 cfg, updaterate min 50, and rate min 10000, modem 56kbs go to hell
The game just has such a high skill ceiling, which is personally one of the reasons I love it so much. You really CAN be rediculously amazing, given enough practice (and inherent skill, arguably). There are players that are going to sometimes track fades with their entire lmg clip, and players who can unload a pistol clip as fast as or faster than a pistol script. Or untouchable shotgun-marines who seem to shoot you before you come around the corner.
I may have not played for a while, but ("Back in may day!") when I used to play, I would consistently go into pubs (classic, no combat thnx), b-hop around, go 19-1 (etc etc) without any trouble, occasionally solo-shotgun fades (LMG on the super lucky days), 180 shotgun skulks, pistol pistol-knife kill, all that rape etc, and I STILL wasn't on the level of many amazing players, who easily put me to shame.
Thats just NS! Like it or love it.
There is very little difference between the best marines and aimbots (5-10% at most). When someone like tane, green or wltrs get on a shotgun killstreak in the early game even the very best opposing alien teams will fold in two towards them and all you can hope to do is hit the marine resources as much as possible, spore as much as you can and hopefully cause a beacon from a baserush before you lose too many resource towers. It can sometimes be literally futile to attack them at all.
Everyone knows that.
If you wanna take a good player in example (alien at least), take Saperion.
It prevents hacks from becoming very widespread, it curtails massive usage, and brings the amount down to something which can be addressed by other schemes, such as cross-server shared ban lists.
So when everyone looks on the web, they fall on 95% of working cheats. so 95% of cheaters don't have any problem with VAC.
It prevents hacks from becoming very widespread, it curtails massive usage, and brings the amount down to something which can be addressed by other schemes, such as cross-server shared ban lists.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Precisely.</b>
We don't live in a perfect world, it makes perfect sense to account for a certain percentage of failure. It's just adequate.
<!--quoteo(post=1745646:date=Jan 4 2010, 08:08 AM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Jan 4 2010, 08:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745646"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->80-20% in the beggining yeah. The problem is that once a cheat is know as working, it becomes very fast the only available on the web.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
VAC actually protects against that too: delayed bans mean that such things appear very seldom, and once they do, VAC team simply issues a direct response.
<!--quoteo(post=1745646:date=Jan 4 2010, 08:08 AM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Jan 4 2010, 08:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745646"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So when everyone looks on the web, they fall on 95% of working cheats. so 95% of cheaters don't have any problem with VAC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Before they're banned, yes.
I said that thoes 95% were working!
By working i mean : "not banned"
And by banned i mean "by VAC",
that's implicate the "differed time" that VAC wait before they ban someone.
So, for you, from the beggining :
1) A cheat is released.
2) the cheat is tested
3) they wait some months, till VAC decide to ban (they never wait 1years.... or they would be useless)
4) if the test account is banned after a few months, the cheat is removed , so no one can be trap.
5) if the test account isn't banned after a few months, they put the cheat public with the "VAC-proof" indication.
6) players looking for cheats arrives
7) They all take the VAC-proof cheat (except idiots).
8) 95% of cheaters aren't Banned.
By working i mean : "not banned"
And by banned i mean "by VAC"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I see. Do you have anything to back that up then?
If not... Understand, that is very, very pointless. I saw a total of two cheaters in my 1,000+ hours spent with Valve games, and that observation holds just as much ground as yours.
<!--quoteo(post=1745662:date=Jan 4 2010, 10:40 AM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Jan 4 2010, 10:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1745662"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1) A cheat is released.
2) the cheat is tested
3) they wait some months, till VAC decide to ban (they never wait 1years.... or they would be useless)
4) if the test account is banned after a few months, the cheat is removed , so no one can be trap.
5) if the test account isn't banned after a few months, they put the cheat public with the "VAC-proof" indication.
6) players looking for cheats arrives
7) They all take the VAC-proof cheat (except idiots).
8) 95% of cheaters aren't Banned.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem with that theory is: you assume it's possible to circumvent the system on the first try. With that in mind, the progress would actually look more like this:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1)A cheat is released and tested;
2)Author waits three months;
3)Cheat is detected;
4)Repeat step one through four a dozen times before a workable approach is determined, at which point author dies of old age.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course, there is such thing as chance, and sometimes smart people get around to circumventing it after a few months or years or so. At which point: a)They likely start demanding sizeable payment for it; b)Cheat is randomly nullified as part of a routine update; c)Cheat is deployed and enters semi-wide use, at which point VAC is specifically amended to detect it.
The only "true" VAC-proof cheating require employment of a "Cafe" account, which can only be secured through professional legal fraud and a sizeable monetary investment, or infiltrating a low-security Cafe itself. This can still be nullified granted public complaints about the issue.