Overpowred units.
sonder
Join Date: 2007-09-12 Member: 62266Members
Join Date: 2007-09-12 Member: 62266Members
I have not read what everyone else have wroten, so this might have been suggested before.
For an examble lets take Starcraft. In Starcraft you have some very overpowered units, which can destroy the enemy, UNLESS the enemy have the counter for it. The only tech which can make marines go back into the game is JP's / has. Weapon upgrades is nice, but it wont make the big comeback, MT is nice aswell, but still not the big comeback. This is what makes starcraft did right. You can make the most amazing comepacks in SC with a new tech. Like lurkers, mutalisks, ultralisks, high templars, Dark templars, there is countless of comebacks units. Like 50% of the game units are CRAZY, but the enemy can allways counter it with some unit. And i like that princip. You can make awesome comebacks. The only really counterable thing in NS would be HA/ONOS. Onos counters HA's nicely. But we need more!
This is where scouting would become SOOOOOOOOO important, you need to know what the enemy is doing, so you can counter his "new tech" with your tech fast, and even be ahead of him. I think in NS you only scout where the marines are going, not rly the tech - maybe obs/al/aa in the start. But not rly anything that much. In starcraft it is VERY important you keep scouting the enemy, to counter him.
If you include exoskeleton i think thats a good comeback way. But include MORE if possible :)! It would be so nice as commander - to pull out the new highly teched unit, when you are holding ONE pg, and the aliens 3'rd hive are growing. Then just pull out something crazy, and hopefully aliens wont have a counter for it. They might have ofc, if they scouted well, and could afford it because they defended nodes well.
Bassicly - both sides needs some overpowered units (which can be countered ofcourse), to make nice comebacks. This would take scouting to a whole new level aswell.
For an examble lets take Starcraft. In Starcraft you have some very overpowered units, which can destroy the enemy, UNLESS the enemy have the counter for it. The only tech which can make marines go back into the game is JP's / has. Weapon upgrades is nice, but it wont make the big comeback, MT is nice aswell, but still not the big comeback. This is what makes starcraft did right. You can make the most amazing comepacks in SC with a new tech. Like lurkers, mutalisks, ultralisks, high templars, Dark templars, there is countless of comebacks units. Like 50% of the game units are CRAZY, but the enemy can allways counter it with some unit. And i like that princip. You can make awesome comebacks. The only really counterable thing in NS would be HA/ONOS. Onos counters HA's nicely. But we need more!
This is where scouting would become SOOOOOOOOO important, you need to know what the enemy is doing, so you can counter his "new tech" with your tech fast, and even be ahead of him. I think in NS you only scout where the marines are going, not rly the tech - maybe obs/al/aa in the start. But not rly anything that much. In starcraft it is VERY important you keep scouting the enemy, to counter him.
If you include exoskeleton i think thats a good comeback way. But include MORE if possible :)! It would be so nice as commander - to pull out the new highly teched unit, when you are holding ONE pg, and the aliens 3'rd hive are growing. Then just pull out something crazy, and hopefully aliens wont have a counter for it. They might have ofc, if they scouted well, and could afford it because they defended nodes well.
Bassicly - both sides needs some overpowered units (which can be countered ofcourse), to make nice comebacks. This would take scouting to a whole new level aswell.
Comments
Anyway, Starcraft works on the Rock-Paper-Scissors Principle, and has what-do-i-know how much units at your disposable, aligned under a single command.
In NS, you have exactly the number of players of your team at your disposal, with a mind of their own each.
A zerg player may have a comeback with a lingrush, but you cant pull that off in NS because each unit has to be controlled by someone.
Funny stuff: It takes only one skulk to trash a complete bonsai base cramped in the most tighted spot of a base. *evil grin*
Also: This is a forum for NS2.
I'm just saying this game would need some more stronger units, which could really bring you back into the game. Because, if you get behind your enemy, there is not many chances of making a comeback, except if you can pull out prototype tech.
<a href="http://www.glowleaf.net/wp-content/gallery/post-pics/zergling-rush-small.jpg" target="_blank">Lingrush</a> - pull that off during endgame with skulks in an 12v12 and I'll pay your share of drugs for a year.
Maybe invisible marine? Not permenemt ofc. But when not moving maybe. Then the aliens should have some kind of "detection tech" to see him.
Another one would be the FIRST fade. The first fade turns the game around UNLESS the marines have some serious tech. But - there is only one tech way, and thats the fade. You cant do anything else. So the marines knows how to counter it.
BUT here comes my point, if you could have alternative tech ways, the other team would have to scout more, so they can have a counter for it quickly. BUT, sometimes one team, might be suprised by the other team, because they didnt notice they pulled out THAT kind of units, so they have to tech up the counter really really fast. This would make the game more interesting, when there is an oppourtunity for a comeback.
Bassicly:
1: More tech ways
2: Dont make ONE unit counter everything (fades / prototech)
Well, this would make the game a bit more teamwork dependent. And people would feel like they are a part of a bigger group. HOW ALIENS REALLY should be. Grouping up together, and rushing trough a hallway.
+ like a said, its a nice feeling to be a part of a plan, and teamwork.
Now wait just a second. I'm not the greatest commander in the world, hell, I'm probably a little below average, but I've made my fair share of comebacks in a game.
Getting that HMG out to the right player can make a HUGE difference in a game. You don't <i>need</i> JPs/HAs to make a comeback. All you need is someone who knows how to shoot a gun, <i>the right way</i>.
Heck, you don't really have to be that great of a player to make a comeback either. You just have to know what to save in your base and what to kill on the field.
Also, you don't need a proto to counter a fade. Just some shotguns with weapon upgrades.
@slayer20 - in the long terms, if you are fighting against 2 hive fades, you need prototech, unless you are extremly lucky and trap/kill them :P
This.
In addition scouting puts huge pressure to the commander and scouting players. Based on how people play NS1, I'd say it's too difficult in many ways. You need an organised team with everyone having particular interest in the RTS side to do the scouting properly.
I'd love to have such system, but many players don't seem to have interest even in learning how the NS1 strategy works, not to speak of dedicating themselves to learn something more complex and demanding.
@slayer20 - in the long terms, if you are fighting against 2 hive fades, you need prototech, unless you are extremly lucky and <b>trap/kill them</b> :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what team work is for. While yes, it's smart to upgrade to prototech, you (or someone) should be smart enough to coordinate your team to block a fade before he/she can escape.
Wait, ######.
Marines can go either fast upgrades or fast pg, fast motion, fast aa, ha or jp... aliens can just go lerk+fade protecting the growing hive ( Or go for a double edged stuff like mass rts etc ).
I hope NS2 can bring us classic but diverse strategies ( see muta to lurk, muta/ling, muta to guardian, or m&ms, full mech, etc ), as well as some cheesy stuff ( sensories/reloc/sg rush nowadays, proxy gates & bunker rush on SC ) and all-in strategies like scv rush.
This is where the alien commander helps, I think. In theory he could provide a plenty of alternative build orders with his res pool and I could see his spells helping the alien team to momentarily survive without a tank/meat shield lifeform.
That's why every _ vs. Z game involves hordes of Mutas, absolutely nobody ever builds Protoss Scouts, and all competitive games are decided by two or three select units from each race.
Yeah f*** scv probes & drones are way too imba, everyone makes em !
...
Oh wait... TA fan ?
Scouts are too expensive and serve no purpose except for harassment or anti air. Corsairs on the other hand do splash damage and are cheap and make great overlord hunters and mutalisk killers.
Games are decided by two or three units because of the users MICROMANAGEMENT that i gained and developed through years of experience. Once again, Starcraft is one of the most balanced game in the world.
queen is op. remove it.
So if the White team always moves first, does that mean the game is racist if Black team always inherently loses due to this disadvantage?
Kind of like how everyone stacks Red in the Team Fortress genre of games.
=)
*ON TOPIC*
The reason Mutas are useable in nearly every situation and matchup as a Zerg player, is due to a "glitch" or an exploit that allows them to all stack up in the same spot when they fire. If you were not to use this, then Mutas are pretty balanced in a non-overpowered way.
PRO STARCRAFT is about how to use keyboard shortcuts and acceptable exploits (and using them into strategy) to beat the opponent. Like Mineral Hopping with SCVs/Drones/Probes and forcing other units through like Vultures with Vulture Mines.
When you want to start digging drawbacks of NS gameplay, it gets very hard. Apart from having a stagnant late game, its not that easy. The game's awesome. Jetpacks may may just be a slightly too powerful (for the set price), but apart from that, the balance is good. However what I'd like to see in NS is more variety. Of course NS2 will have a limited budget but when the cash floodgates open, options for future expansions should be available. Currently in NS1, most of the games (if I'd ask Pareto, he'd say 80%) are decided by first 2-4mins of the game. Well that's fine, but from the commander point of views its a bit boring. Especially in the late game, the tech tree is pretty much the same every time.
Like HA is a good example of an OP unit. Counter is an onos. You'd need just more. Imagination is the limit. It could be anything from a shield (cover unit) to commander-controlled ion cannon.
<!--quoteo(post=1749012:date=Jan 25 2010, 01:14 AM:name=a_civilian)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (a_civilian @ Jan 25 2010, 01:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749012"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Keep in mind that NS/NS2 is also an FPS. Hard counters are problematic when the units are actually players because as a player it isn't fun to be rendered useless by your counter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its not easy in the onoslandia when JP's take off.
Basically the strategic objective of this thread is to give commander more options. Even a superior commander has slim chances at best to do a comeback with a bad team against good team, and that's because NS is a lot about inidvidual performance. Like a skulk can outsmart a marine, with proper tools, the commander should be able to outsmart the whole alien team (like Peach'es ventsgcatarusheswtfwherehelldidthemarinescomefrom?) and OP's are a good tool.
I'll give some examples of OP units I had mind.
1. Purchasable short-timed cloak marines to build sneak pgs or what else. Sneak PGs can still turn the game around but getting them against good team with SOF skulks etc. is very hard at best.
2. Periodic commander-controlled damage attack with a timer (like Ion Cannon in C&C). Expensive to tech and rebuild if lost. Com could damage hive (which would eventually destroy it if left unhealed) or RTs with that. DCs could be a good counter and ofc destroying the tech building.
3. More buffed and expensive HA's (maybe reload-free HMG). A swarm of Fades with umbra can still dominate HA's too easily because even the HA's need to reload and weld up. Currently HA's are not a good choice for first tech upgrade because HA's cannot go far without welding up and you are going to lose nodes without JP's. And if you get JPs (and enough res for HA), aliens have lost the game likely anyway.
4. Mobile Factory type of upgrade for the MASC's which would protect surrounding marines from aliens with a shield. Aliens could have some kind of tool (spit? bile?) to destroy it.
5. Different levels of JP's. Let's say JP LvL1 could carry only SG and LvL2 could carry HMG.
6. Remote-detonable mines by commander or marines. Buildable detonators, explosive enough to kill rts atleast, maybe even hive's.
7. Using cloak would remove you from MT always, unless you are in obs range. MT spoils all the fun from late game (as well as SOF if you dont mind).
8. Unchained chambers, altho this would need experiments and maybe cost-adjustment.
9. Less costly catpacks.
These are just examples. Less all-around units (like jetpacks and fades) and more specific units. With all-around units, it boils down to individual skill, with exception of well-timed medspam. This is not a huge issue but tactical versatility would make commander's job more interesting and more fun. Commanders are a scarce resouce in NS, you want to keep them happy. :>
To cut story short, Sonder's probably top3 commanders in NS atm, listen to him. And he had a good teacher. ;)
NS1's tech tree becomes boring, not because it lacks "overpowered" units/tech, but because the tech tree has been the same for years. In a couple of years, NS2s tech tree will also become boring and commanders that are even half decent will likely be rolling out the same upgrades at the beginning of the round.
You don't even need an HMG to make a comeback... I've relocated from a marine start several times with the end result being that we secretly take control of one of their hives and they the ground work for another one. By this I mean, sneak in, Comm. chair up, IPs up, and 99% complete sieges ready to go. When the Alien team realizes what has happened, their down to one hive and its over soon.
Standard NS1 is pretty much completely balanced as far as I'm concerned and it doesn't need any over the top super powers to get back into the game from the brink of failure. If you're entire team has HA+HMG and you lose because you got swarmed by fades, its not because the game needs overpowered tech, its because the players themselves need to play the game a little more and focus on the same enemies that everyone else is shooting at. If they're in a large room and get swarmed by fades, then next time they should get a clue that if the enemy has a lot of fades, you don't got into a large room you force the fades into a smaller room or hallway. Marines typically do better if they focus their firepower. And as far as JPs countering Onos is concerned, I'd say that Onos were better at taking out JPs who weren't in vents than any other alien class, if not, nearly the best. I loved eating JPs mid-air. Again, if an Onos is in a large area where he knows JPs are lurking, then he deserves to get shot at.
As it stands now, I would say that yes, 80% of the games are decided within the first 2-4 minutes, but only as far as Marine survival goes. If you don't get the right tech, if you don't get out of your base and build RTs, then the marines are likely to fail. The first 2-4 minutes don't necesarily affect the Aliens as much. I would say mid-game would affect the Aliens the most instead because if they lose a decent amount of their RTs and don't recapture them quickly, they'll run into bottlenecks in every hallway and eventually be trapped inside their base, waiting to die. End game in NS1 is only boring until one team gets their crap together and makes the final push that makes the difference but when that happens, amazing things occur.
Sneak PGs AFAIC, aren't really necessary, both because I guess NS2 has done away with them in favor of an upgraded Infantry Portal, and because in NS1, you could very easily get a PG near or in an enemy base while undetected if you moved fast and quiet. Not many Aliens get SOF, at least not enough to make a huge difference and if they do, then hopefully you had the time to build the PG up so you can get backup.
The weapon of mass destruction suggestion seems like a cop-out. If you can't get your team together enough to make an attempt at hitting the hive, then you're doing it wrong IMHO. And the obvious counter, as you have stated, would be to build DCs near your hive, which in NS1, was usually the norm anyways, so thats one super weapon thats basically useless unless you got it very early on in the game, and if that was the case, games would be over in 5 minutes after an LMG rush and a detonation of the super weapon. But, if the rush somehow failed, then the marines would lose instantly after the Aliens counter-rushed due to the base having little to no defense, and all upgrades being pushed into the failed super weapon rush.
In NS2, I think the whole idea of MASC is that the Marines have to protect it, not the other way around. If you really wanted some type of protective technology, then I would suggest making it seperate from the MASC, which is primarily a siege weapon or having the MASC have two different weapon modes, with switching between them requiring 30-60 seconds during which the siege and shielding capabilities are turned off.
As far as remote mines go, do you mean that Marines will be able to places mines on RT locations and the Commander will be able to detonate at will, without the Aliens able to counter it? If so, than this would surely count as an overpowered weapon, but it would eventually lead to the entire Alien team rage quiting after the Commander remote detonates the half of the Alien RTs. It sounds like a fun mechanic however, but instead of remote mines, I would rather see RTs become mines themselves when upgraded that the commander can detonate remotely. When it detonates, it would damage all nearby Aliens players and structures, but would be rendered useless if the RT isn't detonated before the RT is destroyed. I think this alteration would get some overpowered feel, but it would ultimately balanced by forcing only cheap classes to attack RTs, prolonging their life.
As far as I remember, MT doesn't track cloaked aliens who are walking and are fully cloaked. If you mean to have an alien with the cloaking upgrade be able to run around an entire level without being pinged by MT, then I can only see how it just doesn't make sense and it wouldn't really provide an overpowered tech IMO.
I think the Commander should be able to outsmart the opposing team simply by reading the Art of War, rather than have overpowered tech. Including would surely make comebacks a common occurance, but at the price of total game balancing breakdowns. Games would be decided on who got to the Super Power tech trees first, rather than what team is actually better.
Mostly in reply to what Jiriki said, but I think the general message reflects the OP.
Its not about doing a1,w1,w2 but using tactical decisions to compensate lack of individual skill, which is largely not possible in current NS.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't even need an HMG to make a comeback... I've relocated from a marine start several times with the end result being that we secretly take control of one of their hives and they the ground work for another one. By this I mean, sneak in, Comm. chair up, IPs up, and 99% complete sieges ready to go. When the Alien team realizes what has happened, their down to one hive and its over soon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just no. This doesn't work on competitive games as well as it does on public. Besides, if you reloc and dominate two hives one way or another, there's no need for "comeback".
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Standard NS1 is pretty much completely balanced as far as I'm concerned and it doesn't need any over the top super powers to get back into the game from the brink of failure. If you're entire team has HA+HMG and you lose because you got swarmed by fades, its not because the game needs overpowered tech, its because the players themselves need to play the game a little more and focus on the same enemies that everyone else is shooting at. If they're in a large room and get swarmed by fades, then next time they should get a clue that if the enemy has a lot of fades, you don't got into a large room you force the fades into a smaller room or hallway. Marines typically do better if they focus their firepower. And as far as JPs countering Onos is concerned, I'd say that Onos were better at taking out JPs who weren't in vents than any other alien class, if not, nearly the best. I loved eating JPs mid-air. Again, if an Onos is in a large area where he knows JPs are lurking, then he deserves to get shot at.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Onoses are dead in against any decent jetpacks as soon as they show their face. They only work for a short-rush or very good support from fades. Like I said, its completely another story on public.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As it stands now, I would say that yes, 80% of the games are decided within the first 2-4 minutes, but only as far as Marine survival goes. If you don't get the right tech, if you don't get out of your base and build RTs, then the marines are likely to fail. The first 2-4 minutes don't necesarily affect the Aliens as much. I would say mid-game would affect the Aliens the most instead because if they lose a decent amount of their RTs and don't recapture them quickly, they'll run into bottlenecks in every hallway and eventually be trapped inside their base, waiting to die. End game in NS1 is only boring until one team gets their crap together and makes the final push that makes the difference but when that happens, amazing things occur.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well this game is all about offense. In competitive games, if you don't get their external nodes down until 4mins, its 70-90% game over for marines. If you get only 1 node down, you have better chances but likely have to go for late game.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sneak PGs AFAIC, aren't really necessary, both because I guess NS2 has done away with them in favor of an upgraded Infantry Portal, and because in NS1, you could very easily get a PG near or in an enemy base while undetected if you moved fast and quiet. Not many Aliens get SOF, at least not enough to make a huge difference and if they do, then hopefully you had the time to build the PG up so you can get backup.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Easy on public compared to competitive games where there's always someone scouting hives for anything suspicious. Well should be atleast.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The weapon of mass destruction suggestion seems like a cop-out. If you can't get your team together enough to make an attempt at hitting the hive, then you're doing it wrong IMHO. And the obvious counter, as you have stated, would be to build DCs near your hive, which in NS1, was usually the norm anyways, so thats one super weapon thats basically useless unless you got it very early on in the game, and if that was the case, games would be over in 5 minutes after an LMG rush and a detonation of the super weapon. But, if the rush somehow failed, then the marines would lose instantly after the Aliens counter-rushed due to the base having little to no defense, and all upgrades being pushed into the failed super weapon rush.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you are in lategame (and this is what I want these 'comebacks' for), and you got even a decent shot at getting the hive down (aka with jps or heavies), you've basically won the game. Depends on the situation, but aliens are in bad shape then. I don't event want any "super weapon". A well aimed damage by commander could take out chambers at crucial moment (to help fade go down) or get down lamed RT's. It should mostly "extra"-damage for hive to take it down after a rush. I never intended it as a primary weapon. Besides, its an example, kapish?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As far as remote mines go, do you mean that Marines will be able to places mines on RT locations and the Commander will be able to detonate at will, without the Aliens able to counter it? If so, than this would surely count as an overpowered weapon, but it would eventually lead to the entire Alien team rage quiting after the Commander remote detonates the half of the Alien RTs. It sounds like a fun mechanic however, but instead of remote mines, I would rather see RTs become mines themselves when upgraded that the commander can detonate remotely. When it detonates, it would damage all nearby Aliens players and structures, but would be rendered useless if the RT isn't detonated before the RT is destroyed. I think this alteration would get some overpowered feel, but it would ultimately balanced by forcing only cheap classes to attack RTs, prolonging their life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They dont have to be "mines" but anything remotely explodable could take down lifeforms if timed well, and its just an example.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As far as I remember, MT doesn't track cloaked aliens who are walking and are fully cloaked. If you mean to have an alien with the cloaking upgrade be able to run around an entire level without being pinged by MT, then I can only see how it just doesn't make sense and it wouldn't really provide an overpowered tech IMO.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cloaking doesnt affect MT, but walking does. But in competitive 6vs6 games (unlike in 16v16 mayhems) walking into base from any decent place takes forever (enough to lose all nodes etc.), because MT will warn the commander off long before you even get near and JP will hunt the rush down. Besides, there's no reason to use cloak as a fade, and anti-MT would provide even a decent reason for it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the Commander should be able to outsmart the opposing team simply by reading the Art of War, rather than have overpowered tech. Including would surely make comebacks a common occurance, but at the price of total game balancing breakdowns. Games would be decided on who got to the Super Power tech trees first, rather than what team is actually better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look, lets get it straight out, I have been commanding a lot of games and I'm rather bored at watching my marines die without having any real tactical edge at opponent if they are better individually. This means that I cannot really affect the outcome by making tactical decisions. Well there are some but they require special conditions. That is why I'd like to see OP units. Another reason is that late game is so predictable most of the time. There are no big choices to be made as a commander.
You are focusing too much on details of my examples than the general concept of OP's.
On another note sonder, I don't know if we can present our case because half of the thread will be wasted to prove axioms that are obvious to us but not to public commanders. Debate without consensus on premises is futile.
Edit: To clarify, I don't want to prevent public players from posting in any way, but I'll always recommend considering that it's not the only way of playing the game. Taking a brief 5 minute look into how NS works in an organised 6vs6 environment would make a lot of your arguments much more viable and also help to see how NS public could be better in the future. "From a 32 player public goer's viewpoint..." is completely agreeable approach, but just posting things without aknowledging the possible variations makes it look like you're not aware of what causes what and that you're ignoring all other possibilities of playing the game.
Many times comebacks are because of the oppositing team plays bad. Partitially it's a viable option, but I'd rather not completely rely on things like the enemy team not scouting their hive area for 2 minutes. Meanwhile getting a good positioning on an ambush, killing most of marine HAs and managing to turn it into a PG circle of doom while the marines are still respawning is a good comeback, since it involved aliens doing an exceptionally good fight initiation, marines being a bit sloppy on their positioning and aliens following with a good call and execution on the PG rush. The marine positioning and being able to fail in it is part of the 'demanding gameplay' which I discuss below.
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As in general to this topic:
The core of this problem is in my opinion what you can demand from the players. As a rought generalization the casual gaming aims for the complete opposite of what the 'overpowered' units are in Starcraft.
Most casual games try to make themselves as forgiving and enjoyable right from the start. You can do whatever you want, it's not going to hurt your teammates a lot and you're even going to score some points while doing your own thing. After that the rest of the gameplay depth gets built on that basis. I guess I'll keep using TF2 as an example: If you want to be an engineer and build turrets in a hideous remote corner, go ahead and do that, it's not going to make any difference to the outcome of the game. You'll have your fun, maybe even get a frag from some lost scout running into your dark corner and the rest of your team is never even going to note your absence.
Meanwhile in SC you're going to get overrun, beaten, rushed and dominated by the weirdest stuff and you're just supposed to suck it up, learn the counters and get back only to get beaten by something else. The game pushes your ability to the limit and even progamers have the risk of making huge mistakes and falling apart due to the massively demanding gameplay. A single bad decision, a bit slow reaction or sloppy mistake can make a big difference in a 30 minute round. I've lost games from big advantage because I've felt bored of finishing up the game and played bad for a few minutes.
So, can NS2 expect players to adapt to brutally punishing Starcraft styled gameplay? As much as I hate to say it, I can't see it happening. People expect almost instant fun from games and many don't consider the learning process exciting. I'm more than happy if NS2 manages to be somewhat close to NS in terms of demanding gameplay and moments like flashing your first fade into PG mines or losing to a baserush as a commander.
I'm surprised if nobody ever bought this up, good job sonder anyway!
1. Onos can devour marines (including heavies) from a range of 10 feet (mouth doesn't extend out 10 feet). The attack is instantaneous (instead of taking a few seconds like when K got eaten in Men In Black). There's nothing a swallowed marine can do but hope that his teammates will kill the onos. This is ONE HIT KILL. Last, the Onos gains hp/ap from eating the marine.
2. Fades can fly way faster than it should. With adrenaline, they rarely run out of energy. They can metabolize and heal themselves faster without the aid of a gorge or the hive. With focus, they can do huge amounts of damage to kill most marines in two hits or less. All of this combined creates a creature that flies in, hits two or three times, flies out, heals, and comes back. If you get its health low enough, it redeems, allowing the kill to death ratio to go sky high. In combat mode, aliens can have fades in under 2 minutes of gameplay and the marines will be fighting a losing battle unless they already have shotguns and hmgs.
3. Focus allows most aliens to kill most marines in 1-2 hits with a simple upgrade.
4. Heavies are unfair to skulks and lerks. However, there's plenty of drawbacks to heavies.
5. Redemption allows Fades and Onos to go into battle with a high chance of not dying, even on a suicide run. In combat mode, this deprives the marines of well deserved xp.
6. Xenocide is horribly unbalanced. It allows any skulk to leap into combat without giving the marines enough time to kill it. It does enough splash damage to kill unarmored marines and heavily damage others. It also is key in destroying turret farms and other structures with ease. In combat mode, suicide has no drawback, so there are plenty of aliens that use this as their main attack instead of as a last resort.
<b>MY ADVICE IS TO BALANCE EVERYTHING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.</b>