Marine K9
Battle-Bug
Join Date: 2010-02-11 Member: 70523Members
Join Date: 2010-02-11 Member: 70523Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Dogs of war</div><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Suggestion:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I know that you guys won't like the fact that this suggestion blurs the line between alien and marine, but it is an interesting concept. What if marines had K9 attack dogs, like the military and police forces are using today? It would be like a large marine skulk with lots of armor. K9 could be player controlled or it could be another kind of robot (like weld-bot). I have not planned this out, but I wanted to see if you guys could help me generate some ideas to make the K9 acceptable.
<!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Ideas:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> (pick and choose these... please add to them)
K9 has awesome marine armor.
K9 has hydraulic jaws as a main weapon.
K9 has some kind of gun mounted on it. (see picture below)
K9 is actually robotic dog. (see video below)
K9 can smell cloaked aliens nearby.
K9 can smell infestation nearby.
K9 can run faster than normal marine.
K9 can latch onto an alien and hold it down momentarily (bad news for lerks and fades).
K9 carries medpacks around for marines (think of St. Bernards with the barrel of liquor in the old cartoons)
K9 should be able to use simple buttons, like doors and elevators.
K9 should not have any kinds of jetpacks, leap, etc.
K9 should not be able to build structures.
K9 should not be able to climb ladders (maybe can latch onto marine like a fade and get pulled up)
K9 should not be able to climb walls and ceilings.
These are just some ideas I'm throwing out there. Don't get hung up because you don't like one or two. They aren't set in stone.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><b>I'd like to see you guys come up with.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Robot dog (watch them kick it):
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/j_2-n3t4rJE"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/j_2-n3t4rJE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Dog from Jetforce Gemini for N64:
<img src="http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/BruK_Smash/lupus.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.hemmy.net/images/animals/dogarmor.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://9gag.com/photo/8358_full.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2008/11/26/dog-armor-2_BY4kO_6648.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Working_dog_in_Afghanistan,_wearing_a_bulletproof_vest,_being_trained-hires.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Note: Please keep all posts objective and constructive. It is ok not to like this suggestion, but it is not ok to be outright rude. If you don't like this suggestion, then please explain what it is exactly you don't like. It is very much appreciated if you provide alternatives to make this idea acceptable.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I know that you guys won't like the fact that this suggestion blurs the line between alien and marine, but it is an interesting concept. What if marines had K9 attack dogs, like the military and police forces are using today? It would be like a large marine skulk with lots of armor. K9 could be player controlled or it could be another kind of robot (like weld-bot). I have not planned this out, but I wanted to see if you guys could help me generate some ideas to make the K9 acceptable.
<!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Ideas:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> (pick and choose these... please add to them)
K9 has awesome marine armor.
K9 has hydraulic jaws as a main weapon.
K9 has some kind of gun mounted on it. (see picture below)
K9 is actually robotic dog. (see video below)
K9 can smell cloaked aliens nearby.
K9 can smell infestation nearby.
K9 can run faster than normal marine.
K9 can latch onto an alien and hold it down momentarily (bad news for lerks and fades).
K9 carries medpacks around for marines (think of St. Bernards with the barrel of liquor in the old cartoons)
K9 should be able to use simple buttons, like doors and elevators.
K9 should not have any kinds of jetpacks, leap, etc.
K9 should not be able to build structures.
K9 should not be able to climb ladders (maybe can latch onto marine like a fade and get pulled up)
K9 should not be able to climb walls and ceilings.
These are just some ideas I'm throwing out there. Don't get hung up because you don't like one or two. They aren't set in stone.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><b>I'd like to see you guys come up with.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Robot dog (watch them kick it):
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/j_2-n3t4rJE"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/j_2-n3t4rJE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Dog from Jetforce Gemini for N64:
<img src="http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/BruK_Smash/lupus.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.hemmy.net/images/animals/dogarmor.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://9gag.com/photo/8358_full.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2008/11/26/dog-armor-2_BY4kO_6648.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Working_dog_in_Afghanistan,_wearing_a_bulletproof_vest,_being_trained-hires.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Note: Please keep all posts objective and constructive. It is ok not to like this suggestion, but it is not ok to be outright rude. If you don't like this suggestion, then please explain what it is exactly you don't like. It is very much appreciated if you provide alternatives to make this idea acceptable.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Comments
Cloaked skulk: "###### YOU BUDDY, DONT STEAL MY STYLE" ~BITE~
+1
That doesn't help anyone. Please keep all posts constructive and on topic. If you don't like the suggestion, please describe in detail why you feel that way and how we might improve it.
And as a whole, I don't see NPCs, controlable or not, fitting in all too well past weld-bots.
If implemented, it would HAVE to be comm controlled or autonomous. Just saying, autonomous tends to be a pain in the arse once the NPC has more than 3-4 choices, and it sounds like you want this to be a serious battle-front support character. So... leaning on comm controlled.
I'm not enthusiastic about weapon mounting them. See above issue.
No need for DI sniffing. Use visuals.
Smelling (and presumably barking about) cloaked aliens could make them a bit OP, giving warning and an instant comm sat scan, nullifying cloak. Or even just if there are Aliens in the region. However, this seems like the only good compelling reason to have dogs besides a unit to chew on buildings.
Pounce/tackle/pin has serious issues as discussed in several other threads.
Being faster than Marines sounds OK.
So, really the only thing I see is another melee unit, probably comm controlled, maybe equipment (mepack) carrier and supplier, running them to the front line and chewing on structures. It's not really jiving with me. Seems like too much work for too little payout, and dogs in NS doesn't feel right in that atmosphere. At least in the traditional sense. And man it would stink to mistake them for skulks and waste bullets (or vice versa and get chewed on).
It doesn't have to be a NPC. Imagine getting in a second comm chair and controlling the robot K9 you just built in base or waiting a few seconds for a mind-controlled K9 to come through the IP. You can actually control it. You just need to research the technology and have a second comm chair. This would keep a second person in base for defense as a bonus. Maybe the comm can switch between them if he likes and play it FPS style and not bird's eye view.
As far as the cloak sniffing goes, I wasn't thinking of a huge range. I just want it to bark when a cloaked alien gets close. Maybe he cannot reveal its location, but he can sense its proximity. This would make him an early warning system, but it wouldn't reveal the alien. At best, he might be able to determine when the alien is even closer, so he can track it down. However, he can't see it, so he might run into the mouth of an onos.
The whole point of cloaking is to surprise them when they're not ready. Having an early warning ruins about 50% of that purpose, and calling for instant scanner sweep the moment your dog barks ruins it the rest of the way.
A better idea imo was an older idea where Marines had an equipment like a mine that they could place and gave a small region of MT. But it was fixed and Alien destroyable. Biggest issue was arguing if it could be hidden vs. visible and thus bitable.
It should be assigned to a marine and follow him around like a buddy and keep his back
maybe as an upgrade to weldbots because they do every thing people don't like doing
guard, build, weld, carry things,
and most importantly shut up and not get in the way.
the only thing they can't do is fight, they'd get mowed down in a real battle.
I think it would be good in small games when people have to go out alone
It should be assigned to a marine and follow him around like a buddy and keep his back
maybe as an upgrade to weldbots because they do every thing people don't like doing
guard, build, weld, carry things,
and most importantly shut up and not get in the way.
the only thing they can't do is fight, they'd get mowed down in a real battle.
I think it would be good in small games when people have to go out alone<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
SCNR
<img src="http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/2/2/128780589815984780.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Every skill must have advantages <b>and </b>disadvantages. If you can go invisible, being revealed should be a possibility. My idea does not make you visible, only detects close proximity. Besides, if you hear the dog bark, then you should attack or run before the comm can get a scan in (if he's competent enough to do so).
<!--quoteo(post=1756608:date=Mar 2 2010, 08:09 PM:name=ghost in the shell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghost in the shell @ Mar 2 2010, 08:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1756608"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like this idea, tin dog sidekick
It should be assigned to a marine and follow him around like a buddy and keep his back
maybe as an upgrade to weldbots because they do every thing people don't like doing
guard, build, weld, carry things,
and most importantly shut up and not get in the way.
the only thing they can't do is fight, they'd get mowed down in a real battle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I also believe it should be a support character. However, I think it should have some combat value. It won't be as fast as most aliens, but it can latch onto them and bite down with a hydraulic jaw... hold them down... etc.
Here's another idea. What if regular armored marines could ride the robot dog? That might have a mobility advantage (I know what you are thinking, but robots are strong).
1) if they stick to NS1 tech, it already has a huge disadvantage. You don't get Focus nor Scent of Fear.
2) and thus the dog has nullified cloak by forcing action when you're supposed to be invisible.
<!--quoteo(post=1756635:date=Mar 2 2010, 10:45 PM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Mar 2 2010, 10:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1756635"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Stupid idea to give the marines an auto skulk<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only one of the ideas is that it is an NPC, like some of the weld bots and such we've already seen. We've also talked about it being a playable character. As far as skulks, we've distanced it in its abilities (no leap, parasite, and xeno). All that has really been suggested that would make it similar is the ability to bite.
#1 You have to either walk slow or standing still to cloak, else you become visible
#1.1 you risk map control by slowly creeping through shadows
#2 you dont have any surveilance besides the fireflies (i.e. no SoF / sof replacement!)
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:JunctionCity1967SupplyDrop.jpg" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Junction...7SupplyDrop.jpg</a>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sniper_rifle.jpg" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sniper_rifle.jpg</a>
e: this idea is insane
<a href="http://guarddog.50webs.com/" target="_blank">http://guarddog.50webs.com/</a>
I don't want to see NS2 go down the same path as TF2 did for the last few years (they're coming around for comp). TF2 was actually a cartoony fantasy game with no emphasis on true realism but only a slight degree. I want to see practicality in the game I play, especially if it's not meant to be a cartoony chaotic fantasy instead of a grim sci-fi. Honestly, you could argue easily how a dog could work and have it's uses if equipped with blah blah blah and give X and Y and gameplay would still work because of new gameplay niche Z. But why couldn't we just as easily add a dragon or terminator to the marine team. It wouldn't have to function in any way it looked liked so it could fit perfectly into gameplay, but come on. I mean, if you want the furry crowd sure this might be a hook, but dogs in altered gravities (not that it's apparent in game) and being used in a corporate installation halfway in some distant solar system being of more use than theoretical machines or bioweapons/utilities?
tl;dr: I don't like the idea. Don't care if it could fit into gameplay, it doesn't fit in the environment. I'm pretty sure the team wouldn't put dogs into the game without my post .
Nice preview video on there website: <a href="http://wardogsmovie.com/" target="_blank">http://wardogsmovie.com/</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It’s 1942, somewhere in the Pacific: Deadly ambushes by entrenched
Japanese in the thick jungles take a heavy toll on American troops.
Marine commanders were willing to try anything, including using dogs
to sniff out the hidden enemy. But even with their superior senses,
nobody anticipated just how effective they would be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="http://www.olive-drab.com/images/wardogs_vietnam_1967_375.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Lance Corporal Ralph H. McWilliams and his scout dog Major, Vietnam, November 1967.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Vietnam K-9 units, the dogs and their handlers, were credited with saving thousands of lives in the war. There are countless stories of how the dogs prevented an ambush, discovered deadly mines or booby traps, or sounded the alarm against infiltrators. These dogs were so effective that the VC offered bounties for killing military working dogs and their handlers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="http://www.olive-drab.com/images/wardogs_scout_vietnam_400.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.olive-drab.com/images/wardogs_vietnam_199th_400.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
(Some of you out there will think what I just said is a good idea).
(Some of you out there will think what I just said is a good idea).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bearcalvary.jpg
In space
Too late:
<img src="http://www.naturalselection2.com/storage/marine_masc_render.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
That being said, I really don't see them fitting into the game. It's a pretty well-established "Hi-tech Marines" vs "Fast biological Aliens" theme, and a dog would infringe too far into Alien territory.
Oh, I thought you were talking about marines :)
<!--quoteo(post=1756887:date=Mar 3 2010, 08:29 PM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Mar 3 2010, 08:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1756887"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That being said, I really don't see them fitting into the game. It's a pretty well-established "Hi-tech Marines" vs "Fast biological Aliens" theme, and a dog would infringe too far into Alien territory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't forget that aliens have (in NS1) acid rockets, lerk spikes, spores, spit, and parasite that are long-range attacks. I would think that a melee race using ranged attacks would infringe upon marine territory.