I believe BC2 is a great game, but still has has some latency issues to work out. Also, the health/armor system is still a little bit crazy imo. I'd like it to be a bit more realistic (They are pretty close, but, it still feels like I have to shoot someone wayyy too much to get a kill). So it's a great game, but game-play balancing, health/armour, and the latency still need to be polished for a retail product. Also Steam friends integration would be great, but EA put the kabosh on that one. Moronic.
MW2 is an amazing game, I like it a lot, but it employs the console matchmaking system which is listen-server reliant. Makes sense for consoles, but a clear step backwards for PC owners. What bottleneck's this system, is the average consumer's ISP package. The latency and often upload bandwidth required is not enough for the lightning fast accuracy and quality we expect from PC multiplayer. We're about 5 years away from residential pipelines being able to support a 16 man server on par with dedicated server play (In other words, whoever 'ok'ed' IWNet, isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, and most likely got his position through nepotism or some other device).
My biggest issue so far is that the objectives can be damaged down as opposed to planting a bomb and defending it. This allows the recon class to rush an objective, toss down 4 C4, and have an insta-objective kill. Getting more creative, a coordinated team can place C4 on a vehicle then ram the vehicle into the objective allowing the recon to blow the objective from a safe distance. Thankfully most objectives are inside on the beta map so this cannot be abused too much.
<!--quoteo(post=1752669:date=Feb 12 2010, 12:56 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Feb 12 2010, 12:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Getting more creative, a coordinated team can place C4 on a vehicle then ram the vehicle into the objective allowing the recon to blow the objective from a safe distance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that sounds pretty cool actually. Not when it happens for the 53rd time in a row obviously, but as a once-in-a-while tactic
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2010
That is what makes these sandbox games seriously awesome. I remember going into Forgotten Hope (bf1942 ww2 awesomesauce) With a friend on TS sitting in the back of my kubel wagen with a panzerfaust, deadly vs any tank. Fast and has the punch to take out armor :P
Same goes for expacks in a jeep with me driving the jeep to jump out at the last second, while the kaboomjeep keeps driving towards the target.
Those things is what I liked most about the BF genre (only I do prefer WW2 era weaponry :P). Nothing like supporting a friend as infantry in his British licensed Sherman Firefly. So I can spot high value targets like the Tiger 1 or the Königstiger for him to shoot into piles of metal, while also protecting him from AT infantry.
Those scenarios is what makes the BF sandbox shizzle the shizzle...
<!--quoteo(post=1752669:date=Feb 12 2010, 04:56 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Feb 12 2010, 04:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Getting more creative, a coordinated team can place C4 on a vehicle then ram the vehicle into the objective allowing the recon to blow the objective from a safe distance<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even better/worse/lame/game breaking is planting C4 on a UAV and having an airborne device that can one-hit kill objectives :(
I've got a dual core so in terms of performance the game is awful, fingers crossed for an optomised game come retail. I think the quality of the maps will decide this one for me. BF2's largest flaw was the acres of open land on most maps that relegated infantry combat to the background. If it wasn't Shaktar City, I wasn't playing on it.
<!--quoteo(post=1752711:date=Feb 12 2010, 01:33 PM:name=Pipi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pipi @ Feb 12 2010, 01:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752711"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not about your dual core, it's about your graphic card pal. Dual core would work fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends. He could have a crappy dual-core, or perhaps the game isn't off-loading enough to the graphics card. Physics, AI, collision, etc are still done on the CPU. Or not enough RAM to hold all the info.
<!--quoteo(post=1752711:date=Feb 12 2010, 07:33 PM:name=Pipi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pipi @ Feb 12 2010, 07:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752711"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not about your dual core, it's about your graphic card pal. Dual core would work fine.
Infantry combat is good and worthy in this game now.. finally.
The game certainly needs polishing, I agree about the C4 on objectives.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope, it was designed with consoles in mind. It makes little use of RAM or vid card memory and loads everything on the CPU. If you don't beleive me check your temps. Your GPU will sit at room temp whilst your CPU works its arse off.
I don't pretend to understand it but it's something to do with the architecture- consoles apparantely have very little memory to store things in, but poewrful CPUs to load things on the fly. I'm sure someone smarter than me can explain it better :s
<!--quoteo(post=1752711:date=Feb 12 2010, 02:33 PM:name=Pipi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pipi @ Feb 12 2010, 02:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752711"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game certainly needs polishing, I agree about the C4 on objectives.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, apparently we're playing a version of the game that is fairly old (5 to 8 months? I forget exactly) so hopefully it's polished by now.
The hell of it is, C4 on objectives could still be worked in the game without it feeling like a lame tactic or out of place. Most objectives are inside a building. Currently, someone runs up to the objective, throws down C4, then insta-kills it. If they insist on allowing C4 to damage objectives, I'd rather there be "structure points." These could be load-bearing columns spread around the objective's building and if destroyed by C4 would cause the building, and therefor the objective, to be destroyed. Of course DICE apparently can't think of these things themselves, and most of the Battlefield community supports Jihad Jeeps (their 'official' name), but Bad Company isn't like the rest of the Battlefield games and I hope this gets reworked.
<!--quoteo(post=1752879:date=Feb 13 2010, 01:40 AM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sherpa @ Feb 13 2010, 01:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752879"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't pretend to understand it but it's something to do with the architecture- consoles apparantely have very little memory to store things in, but poewrful CPUs to load things on the fly. I'm sure someone smarter than me can explain it better :s<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Cell Processor (in PS3) is a beast. Maybe they aimed the game for that?
This game is a lot of fun to play, the smaller maps make the battles a lot more focused and intense. There seems to be a bigger focus on infantry which is also a major improvement. Battlefield 2 wasn't too much fun when you were getting blasted from the sky every couple of minutes.
They need to remove auto-aim knifing.. I'm sure every freaking NS player here was just as mad as me getting knife in the random of the bushes, or from a guy who just got up the ladder and click his melee to kill you from a weird distance.. only to state these situations.
Apart than that, I like the realism in the bullets.. makes all the wannabe sniper really bad hehe :D
so this game released but this is the second time in a row I can't connect to the EA servers. Granted, on weekdays my playtime is very limited so maybe it's just server maintenance but damn.
At least you can play at all, us folk in the UK must wait till tomorrow before the games English is converted to English with spelling mistakes during the localisation process...
I in fact canceled my order after playing the beta, it didn't really feel suited to the pc much and I was kind of disappointed by the feel of it. I'm sure it will work well on consoles however.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<div align='center'>Relative to my interest, seems to go pretty well on PC, maybe beta was limited in some way?</div> <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1DNGWzutU9E"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1DNGWzutU9E" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center> <div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DNGWzutU9E" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DNGWzutU9E</a></div>
You walk around for 5 minutes, killing Japanese or... some other guys that are in the region you are in. Probably Russians. Then black screen, cut scene. Walk around for 5 minutes again killing more stuff.
I wouldn't mind if the cut scenes were at all integrated into the game, but they aren't.
A tank blows up in front of you.... in a cut scene, black screen, wait for a couple of seconds before you can take control again and .... walk around killing stuff.
Not very immersive. Will give it another try on the weekend tho.
BFBC2 for the PC is a worthy successor of BF2, in nearly every aspect.
The server browser is borked, as was the bf2 one on release. There are some balance issues, which bf2 also had on release. There are statpadders, but not as many as in bf2. There are technical issues and the occasional crash, same as bf2 on release.
However: The game can be so much fun and the gameplay works extremely well.
The first main game modes are conquest, which is classic battlefield. Capture Flags in order get get additional spawns, more vehicles, more map control and diminish the enemies tickets over time. Conquest maps are on smaller than bf2 conquest maps, with only 3 flags and 2 main spawns each, meaning you have generally a more infantry focused combat. The removal of jets also added to a greater infantry focus. There are still maps out there, with 8 tanks in total and 2 helicopters. So dont worry.
The second main game mode is rush. In rush one team defends and the other teams attacks 2 mcom stations (just call them bomb sites). When the attackers succeed in blowing up both stations they get additional tickets and a new area of the map opens, with additional mcom stations. blow up 8 mcom stations in total and you win. A very fun mode, because the action is focused on only a small part of the map, with the attackers usually pushing the defenders back till you fight over the mcom stations directly. There is however a design flaw. Because attackers have a limited ticket supply and defenders have unlimited tickets, it is best for the defenders to suicide rush the attackers, in order to keep them back and reduce their ticket count. The attacker on the other hand benefit from levelling every piece of cover near the mcom stations. This often result in a blackhawk flying over the enemy base, ripping cover apart and 10 snipers sitting on a hill, calling mortar strikes on the defenders base in order to remove their cover. Once all cover has been removed attackers usually proceed to play 80% medic and fight a really dragged out match over the mcom stations, cause with constant revives it is hard to reduce their ticket count.
This mode also heavily suffers from team switching. I even once played 3 vs 29 (yep, team balancing does not work). Sounds hopeless, but thats the best way to get some grenade kills :)
Then have have minor game modes, like squad deathmatch, where 4 squads with 4 people each are fighting to get 50 kills first. Fun mode, cause you have 12 enemies and only 3 allies and medics dont make 80% of players. (Revive prevents ticket loss, but when you fight for kills it does not help towards victory) There is also squad rush, wich is rush but with only 4 players on each team and smaller maps, if i am not mistaken.
Stuff that will annoy you: -Lots of people playing sniper, especially on hardcore and rush maps. -Medic circle revives ^^ -Server browser -You do not start with your basic abilities. You have to unlock them. -Some of the later weapons are simply better than the early ones -Having 0 specializations sucks, when your opponent has extra grenades and extra explosive damage. So new players are clearly at a disadvantage. (Just image that in cod6 you would start out with 0 perks.) -Server(Connections issues -Medic is simply the class, that will get the moist points! -Veteran m1a1 not working ATM -The usual griever stuff
Stuff that is fun: -Blowing up stuff -Playing in a teamworking squad -Killing people with the engi repair tool -Readkilling people with the UAV -Leveling up works pretty well, thanks to a well created medal system that grants extra points. -Getting extra points for squad actions (repair=20 points, squad repair=30) -Class balance works -Playing with the m1a1 (although it was only for 2 hours. Boy, I need that gun back.)
Final words:
If you always wished for a more infantry oriented BF2 with the ability to blow buildings into pieces, then BFBC2 is for you!
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2010
Natural-Selection's ping of death wasn't to bad, it was actually kind of funny and both teams hear it. But this guy is just way over the top with volume and length of it playing...
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Random factoid: If you're on Windows Vista/7, a lot of players (myself included) seem to have seen a huge responsiveness (in game, menus, the lot) by just running the client/Steam as an Administrator. Obviously, this needs to be taken with the caveat that DICE can't code to save their lives, and this obviously represents at least some form of security risk, but might help a few people.
Notably, it puts pings back into the Server Browser (Jesus Christ, DICE*) and makes joining a game much more responsive.
* - God, I wish we had the :psyduck: smiley here, it's just so appropriate for this.
Seriously, I'm thinking of getting my game refund. I mean, the game is really fun .. sometimes. But the reg, latency, hitboxes... they're all worst than bad. You just can't go competitive in that game, not a single second.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
hehe, the game is indeed loads of fun with all the stuff you can destroy but the hitbox lag is somewhat beyond epic sometimes...
Once I was about 8-10 meters around a corner (indestructible rock) and still got hit and died by the guy shooting at me with his light machinegun. Normally I accept 1 or 2 meters, as this could be netlag on both ends, but 8+ meters is just too much!
The leading your target with sniper rifle is fun though, but real life sucks and ingame this is just way to random (maybe the game has wind effects :P)
Comments
MW2 is an amazing game, I like it a lot, but it employs the console matchmaking system which is listen-server reliant. Makes sense for consoles, but a clear step backwards for PC owners. What bottleneck's this system, is the average consumer's ISP package. The latency and often upload bandwidth required is not enough for the lightning fast accuracy and quality we expect from PC multiplayer. We're about 5 years away from residential pipelines being able to support a 16 man server on par with dedicated server play (In other words, whoever 'ok'ed' IWNet, isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, and most likely got his position through nepotism or some other device).
The damage system, damage rendering, unlocks, graphics, controls, the Sound ! the whole gameplay and well.. about everything is really nice.
Unlike AvP, obviously.
that sounds pretty cool actually. Not when it happens for the 53rd time in a row obviously, but as a once-in-a-while tactic
Same goes for expacks in a jeep with me driving the jeep to jump out at the last second, while the kaboomjeep keeps driving towards the target.
Those things is what I liked most about the BF genre (only I do prefer WW2 era weaponry :P). Nothing like supporting a friend as infantry in his British licensed Sherman Firefly. So I can spot high value targets like the Tiger 1 or the Königstiger for him to shoot into piles of metal, while also protecting him from AT infantry.
Those scenarios is what makes the BF sandbox shizzle the shizzle...
Even better/worse/lame/game breaking is planting C4 on a UAV and having an airborne device that can one-hit kill objectives :(
I've got a dual core so in terms of performance the game is awful, fingers crossed for an optomised game come retail. I think the quality of the maps will decide this one for me. BF2's largest flaw was the acres of open land on most maps that relegated infantry combat to the background. If it wasn't Shaktar City, I wasn't playing on it.
Infantry combat is good and worthy in this game now.. finally.
The game certainly needs polishing, I agree about the C4 on objectives.
Depends. He could have a crappy dual-core, or perhaps the game isn't off-loading enough to the graphics card. Physics, AI, collision, etc are still done on the CPU. Or not enough RAM to hold all the info.
Infantry combat is good and worthy in this game now.. finally.
The game certainly needs polishing, I agree about the C4 on objectives.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope, it was designed with consoles in mind. It makes little use of RAM or vid card memory and loads everything on the CPU. If you don't beleive me check your temps. Your GPU will sit at room temp whilst your CPU works its arse off.
Well, apparently we're playing a version of the game that is fairly old (5 to 8 months? I forget exactly) so hopefully it's polished by now.
The hell of it is, C4 on objectives could still be worked in the game without it feeling like a lame tactic or out of place. Most objectives are inside a building. Currently, someone runs up to the objective, throws down C4, then insta-kills it. If they insist on allowing C4 to damage objectives, I'd rather there be "structure points." These could be load-bearing columns spread around the objective's building and if destroyed by C4 would cause the building, and therefor the objective, to be destroyed. Of course DICE apparently can't think of these things themselves, and most of the Battlefield community supports Jihad Jeeps (their 'official' name), but Bad Company isn't like the rest of the Battlefield games and I hope this gets reworked.
The Cell Processor (in PS3) is a beast. Maybe they aimed the game for that?
Apart than that, I like the realism in the bullets.. makes all the wannabe sniper really bad hehe :D
I mean, the game is good but all the little bugs I expected to be fixed are worst. I just don't get it.
I'm sure it will work well on consoles however.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1DNGWzutU9E"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1DNGWzutU9E" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DNGWzutU9E" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DNGWzutU9E</a></div>
You walk around for 5 minutes, killing Japanese or... some other guys that are in the region you are in. Probably Russians. Then black screen, cut scene. Walk around for 5 minutes again killing more stuff.
I wouldn't mind if the cut scenes were at all integrated into the game, but they aren't.
A tank blows up in front of you.... in a cut scene, black screen, wait for a couple of seconds before you can take control again and .... walk around killing stuff.
Not very immersive. Will give it another try on the weekend tho.
The server browser is borked, as was the bf2 one on release.
There are some balance issues, which bf2 also had on release.
There are statpadders, but not as many as in bf2.
There are technical issues and the occasional crash, same as bf2 on release.
However: The game can be so much fun and the gameplay works extremely well.
The first main game modes are conquest, which is classic battlefield. Capture Flags in order get get additional spawns, more vehicles, more map control and diminish the enemies tickets over time. Conquest maps are on smaller than bf2 conquest maps, with only 3 flags and 2 main spawns each, meaning you have generally a more infantry focused combat. The removal of jets also added to a greater infantry focus. There are still maps out there, with 8 tanks in total and 2 helicopters. So dont worry.
The second main game mode is rush. In rush one team defends and the other teams attacks 2 mcom stations (just call them bomb sites). When the attackers succeed in blowing up both stations they get additional tickets and a new area of the map opens, with additional mcom stations. blow up 8 mcom stations in total and you win. A very fun mode, because the action is focused on only a small part of the map, with the attackers usually pushing the defenders back till you fight over the mcom stations directly.
There is however a design flaw. Because attackers have a limited ticket supply and defenders have unlimited tickets, it is best for the defenders to suicide rush the attackers, in order to keep them back and reduce their ticket count. The attacker on the other hand benefit from levelling every piece of cover near the mcom stations. This often result in a blackhawk flying over the enemy base, ripping cover apart and 10 snipers sitting on a hill, calling mortar strikes on the defenders base in order to remove their cover. Once all cover has been removed attackers usually proceed to play 80% medic and fight a really dragged out match over the mcom stations, cause with constant revives it is hard to reduce their ticket count.
This mode also heavily suffers from team switching. I even once played 3 vs 29 (yep, team balancing does not work). Sounds hopeless, but thats the best way to get some grenade kills :)
Then have have minor game modes, like squad deathmatch, where 4 squads with 4 people each are fighting to get 50 kills first. Fun mode, cause you have 12 enemies and only 3 allies and medics dont make 80% of players. (Revive prevents ticket loss, but when you fight for kills it does not help towards victory)
There is also squad rush, wich is rush but with only 4 players on each team and smaller maps, if i am not mistaken.
Stuff that will annoy you:
-Lots of people playing sniper, especially on hardcore and rush maps.
-Medic circle revives ^^
-Server browser
-You do not start with your basic abilities. You have to unlock them.
-Some of the later weapons are simply better than the early ones
-Having 0 specializations sucks, when your opponent has extra grenades and extra explosive damage. So new players are clearly at a disadvantage. (Just image that in cod6 you would start out with 0 perks.)
-Server(Connections issues
-Medic is simply the class, that will get the moist points!
-Veteran m1a1 not working ATM
-The usual griever stuff
Stuff that is fun:
-Blowing up stuff
-Playing in a teamworking squad
-Killing people with the engi repair tool
-Readkilling people with the UAV
-Leveling up works pretty well, thanks to a well created medal system that grants extra points.
-Getting extra points for squad actions (repair=20 points, squad repair=30)
-Class balance works
-Playing with the m1a1 (although it was only for 2 hours. Boy, I need that gun back.)
Final words:
If you always wished for a more infantry oriented BF2 with the ability to blow buildings into pieces, then BFBC2 is for you!
<div align='center'><img src="http://www.existence-unknown.com/marbl_media/articles/1shot-comics/bfbc2-toot-toot-toot-toot.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<a href="http://www.existence-unknown.com/gallery3/1shot-comics/_article/bfbc2-toot-toot-toot-toot.html" target="_blank">link to article</a></div>
Notably, it puts pings back into the Server Browser (Jesus Christ, DICE*) and makes joining a game much more responsive.
* - God, I wish we had the :psyduck: smiley here, it's just so appropriate for this.
Once I was about 8-10 meters around a corner (indestructible rock) and still got hit and died by the guy shooting at me with his light machinegun. Normally I accept 1 or 2 meters, as this could be netlag on both ends, but 8+ meters is just too much!
The leading your target with sniper rifle is fun though, but real life sucks and ingame this is just way to random (maybe the game has wind effects :P)