pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
edited April 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1768004:date=Apr 20 2010, 05:50 PM:name=Braw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Braw @ Apr 20 2010, 05:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1768004"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pretty cool, interesting ideas and very unique. I actually think the room is a bit too bright, or it's just missing contrast. Except for the lighting everything looks awesome :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks. I tried to stay away from scenes and layouts ppl already showed as much as possible. It kinda hard though with the current amount of textures and props. I agree that it seems a little bright or is lacking contrast. I'm still learning positioning and attributing of those invisible ambient- and radiosity-lights. But then again I'll prefer veilish maps over bastish maps anyday and I'm also trying to target this kind of player type.
@Barlow: Thanks, I think you already topped it regarding your tasty map pics :)
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
edited April 2010
Improved lighting and additions: <img src="http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7426/ns04.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Techpoint and res node; I think I'll have to add 2 more lights to the left of the techpoint: <img src="http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/4449/ns05.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=1768255:date=Apr 22 2010, 03:08 AM:name=pSyk0mAn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pSyk0mAn @ Apr 22 2010, 03:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1768255"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Techpoint and res node; I think I'll have to add 2 more lights to the left of the techpoint:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's hard to tell the proportions of things from the screens, but something to keep in mind that just bit me the other day: every tech point could theoretically have a hive on it (even MS, if the marines lose it to the aliens after building other tech points), and the hive's 3d model has tendrils shooting out various ways that it "hangs" from. So if your tech point has a high ceiling or a lot of space above and around it, those tendrils might just end in mid-air which is ugly -- you'll have to find an excuse to put something solid at the end of each tendril, to make sure the hive looks right.
You'll probably also want to make sure the hive can't be shot from outside the room, through a door. Although for MS, maybe it's fair that a hive be a little more exposed there, since if the aliens are able to build it they probably have the upper hand already.
I know am late with this seeing how I posted the video earlier in the week but I been busy coding a site to upload screenshots to, sick of cropping them my self and FTP uploading them all then typin out the links etc. Now I can press an upload button and click on "Copy link url" and Paste the auto resized image here :)
I think you went a little too far in the opposite direction with the lighting here. A balance between your first posted attempt and this I think would work best :)
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Thanks for the comments. I agree that there are a few too many dark spots now. Just don't wanna wash out the map again :D The hive techpoint model fit well in the editor and since this is either marine start or first expansion I don't care much for the fact that you can shoot a possible hive from the entrances :)
@SgtBarlow: Great job, that are some nice shadows. I'm not sure about the amount of crates and barrels though, mainly because most of them are supposed to have physics later on?!
Yeh ya right, If it dont handle well I will have to swap them for bigger crates, Trying to indicate that door is not passible while the other 2 big doors are. I wish we could skin the models have some skins!
<!--quoteo(post=1768371:date=Apr 23 2010, 10:00 AM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Apr 23 2010, 10:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1768371"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->. I wish we could skin the models have some skins!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's possible to do so by duplicating the model file and renaming it, then edit the model file with an editor like UltraEdit and change the HEX where the texture path is to a variant. But it's far from being a user-friendly. The feature should be added eventually I think.. I'm sure UWE will do that.
<b>pSyk0mAn, </b><b>SgtBarlow: I'm loving these open rooms!
Please, pretty please don't go on a usual rampage of cluttering them up (it's a common curse most level designers get infected by at some point, in my opinion). I was a little scared when I saw the comment: "there will be a HUGE pillar with stuff on it in the middle" as most of the time this means the nice, open space get's reduced to corridor crawling madness.
I know my opinion does not count for much (who am I etc) but I beg of you, continue using these large open rooms, work with the ceiling and wall detail. Remember what makes most of the hugely popular maps work so well: They are simple in design, uncluttered and the flows like a river through soft sand. Navigation, cover, looks, lights - all these things are easy to fix after playtests. But having a simple map that invokes the feeling of "nice!" is soo hard to pull off and I say you are well on your way to greatness.
Really liking what I see. Keep up the great work and don't fall into that: "need moar detailz"-pit, please? <: </b>
I haven't been able to map for a while, and I did this quite a while ago to solve the "ridiculous door placement" problem and the res node right in the middle of the room. It's nothing special, though.
I love the ominous lighting in the pic, my only suggestion Mendasp would be to add detail going vertical up above the door, using the door frame as the bounding boxes. I think if you do that, the room will really be tied together. But I just hate flat walls.
I like most of the stuff you "throw" (no offense by choice of words!) together mendasp.
What caught my eye with this pic was the symmetry (spelling?)though. Maybe if you were to remove one of the computer panels, add a large pipe going from the floor to the roof, breaking up and parts of it eating it's way above the doorway. Maybe have it break off even more with a pipe going out the wall and across the room. Something for the skulks to hide behind. Maybe misaligning the texture a bit or just break it up on the wall where the door is. Possibly making two stairs instead of one, one on each side with one of them being damaged? Or something along that effect, to break up the room and make it easier on the eyes.
Regarding the light, I feel it's a bit flat. Or maybe a bit bland. There's something. Could be the lack of detail above the doorway though, just as cyanide points out.
I'm also a little curious as to the choice of the railings by the stairs. In my own humble opinion, railings certainly have a place, but they should try to be unobtrusive and I fear that they would cause quite the frustration for jumping-and-shooting marines and franticly-chomping-while-jumping skulks alike. They feel somewhat out of place, but maybe there's a big pit out of view, hard to tell from only one picture. Could be just me though.
By all means, I'm not saying it's a bad room or a bad design, you're a great designer. But I don't feel the same atmospheric energy most of your other stuff has by looking at it.
Ah, you can't build a hive in MS, and no CC in AS? Strange, but saves me a little bit of work on my MS, didn't think about the hive when I built it, hehe.
I'm not sure if you can destroy the CC and build a Hive there, but I got the impression that you couldn't (not sure where I got this from, maybe a dev can clarify?). I know the spawns are fixed right now, though.
I'm also wondering how the tech point can be built by marines again after getting "broken" (the hive build animation breaks the tech point, apparently).
This is the closest I got from the mapping guidelines:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Each team starts with a Command Station or Hive, so every map should be designed with a “Marine Start†(MS) and “Alien Start†(AS).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1768689:date=Apr 25 2010, 01:20 PM:name=Mendasp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mendasp @ Apr 25 2010, 01:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1768689"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure if you can destroy the CC and build a Hive there, but I got the impression that you couldn't (not sure where I got this from, maybe a dev can clarify?). I know the spawns are fixed right now, though.
I'm also wondering how the tech point can be built by marines again after getting "broken" (the hive build animation breaks the tech point, apparently).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, the start points are fixed, but if the marines could never take a tech point that the aliens had already built, that would be... interesting, from a gameplay perspective. I have to assume it's possible for tech points to change hands in either direction, which means I think its possible (however unlikely) for the aliens to take MS, as long as the 'rines have another tech point built. Seems like the safer assumption anyway, although if a final decision has been made, some dev clarification would be great.
Yeah, I suppose they can take back "middle" nodes, the thing is if the initial ones can change sides... I mentioned the broken animation because I'm curious on what they're going to do with that, I suppose some sort of "welding" or something :P
<!--quoteo(post=1768694:date=Apr 25 2010, 02:18 PM:name=Mendasp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mendasp @ Apr 25 2010, 02:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1768694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, I suppose they can take back "middle" nodes, the thing is if the initial ones can change sides... I mentioned the broken animation because I'm curious on what they're going to do with that, I suppose some sort of "welding" or something :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't quote me Mendasp, but I think, you can lose your MS, keep another tech point to keep the game alive and a hive can be built there. I think, it's supposed to be that dynamic. I had a conversation with someone about it, that's what I got from it. Not 100%, if someone could confirm it?
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Node room (no techpoint), still lacking a few details, more rocks, a little purpose and of course the sky. It's supposed to be huge crevice; the floor is basicly a pit of doom. <img src="http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3796/ns10t.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/5376/ns11.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Comments
Thanks. I tried to stay away from scenes and layouts ppl already showed as much as possible. It kinda hard though with the current amount of textures and props.
I agree that it seems a little bright or is lacking contrast. I'm still learning positioning and attributing of those invisible ambient- and radiosity-lights.
But then again I'll prefer veilish maps over bastish maps anyday and I'm also trying to target this kind of player type.
@Barlow: Thanks, I think you already topped it regarding your tasty map pics :)
<img src="http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7426/ns04.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Techpoint and res node; I think I'll have to add 2 more lights to the left of the techpoint:
<img src="http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/4449/ns05.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Update:
<img src="http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/55/ns06.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
It's hard to tell the proportions of things from the screens, but something to keep in mind that just bit me the other day: every tech point could theoretically have a hive on it (even MS, if the marines lose it to the aliens after building other tech points), and the hive's 3d model has tendrils shooting out various ways that it "hangs" from. So if your tech point has a high ceiling or a lot of space above and around it, those tendrils might just end in mid-air which is ugly -- you'll have to find an excuse to put something solid at the end of each tendril, to make sure the hive looks right.
You'll probably also want to make sure the hive can't be shot from outside the room, through a door. Although for MS, maybe it's fair that a hive be a little more exposed there, since if the aliens are able to build it they probably have the upper hand already.
I know am late with this seeing how I posted the video earlier in the week but I been busy coding a site to upload screenshots to, sick of cropping them my self and FTP uploading them all then typin out the links etc.
Now I can press an upload button and click on "Copy link url" and Paste the auto resized image here :)
<img src="http://www.unitedworlds.co.uk/users/2/images/level/1272019001/1272019735_NRM.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.unitedworlds.co.uk/users/2/images/level/1272019001/1272019670_NRM.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
When I get a bit more of the site finnished I shall open it up for you lot to use instead of imageShack etc.
<img src="http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7426/ns04.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you went a little too far in the opposite direction with the lighting here. A balance between your first posted attempt and this I think would work best :)
I agree that there are a few too many dark spots now. Just don't wanna wash out the map again :D
The hive techpoint model fit well in the editor and since this is either marine start or first expansion I don't care much for the fact that you can shoot a possible hive from the entrances :)
@SgtBarlow: Great job, that are some nice shadows.
I'm not sure about the amount of crates and barrels though, mainly because most of them are supposed to have physics later on?!
I wish we could skin the models have some skins!
I wish we could skin the models have some skins!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
we can, can't we?
Unfortunately we can't skin the already made models because the textures are hard-coded into the models.
Please, pretty please don't go on a usual rampage of cluttering them up (it's a common curse most level designers get infected by at some point, in my opinion). I was a little scared when I saw the comment: "there will be a HUGE pillar with stuff on it in the middle" as most of the time this means the nice, open space get's reduced to corridor crawling madness.
I know my opinion does not count for much (who am I etc) but I beg of you, continue using these large open rooms, work with the ceiling and wall detail. Remember what makes most of the hugely popular maps work so well: They are simple in design, uncluttered and the flows like a river through soft sand.
Navigation, cover, looks, lights - all these things are easy to fix after playtests. But having a simple map that invokes the feeling of "nice!" is soo hard to pull off and I say you are well on your way to greatness.
Really liking what I see. Keep up the great work and don't fall into that: "need moar detailz"-pit, please? <:
</b>
<img src="http://www.mendasp.net/stuff/wip/ns2_mendasp_room5-wip13-3.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
What caught my eye with this pic was the symmetry (spelling?)though. Maybe if you were to remove one of the computer panels, add a large pipe going from the floor to the roof, breaking up and parts of it eating it's way above the doorway. Maybe have it break off even more with a pipe going out the wall and across the room. Something for the skulks to hide behind. Maybe misaligning the texture a bit or just break it up on the wall where the door is.
Possibly making two stairs instead of one, one on each side with one of them being damaged?
Or something along that effect, to break up the room and make it easier on the eyes.
Regarding the light, I feel it's a bit flat. Or maybe a bit bland. There's something. Could be the lack of detail above the doorway though, just as cyanide points out.
I'm also a little curious as to the choice of the railings by the stairs. In my own humble opinion, railings certainly have a place, but they should try to be unobtrusive and I fear that they would cause quite the frustration for jumping-and-shooting marines and franticly-chomping-while-jumping skulks alike. They feel somewhat out of place, but maybe there's a big pit out of view, hard to tell from only one picture.
Could be just me though.
By all means, I'm not saying it's a bad room or a bad design, you're a great designer. But I don't feel the same atmospheric energy most of your other stuff has by looking at it.
It's just very symmetrical.
<a href="http://j.imagehost.org/0760/texturetest.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://j.imagehost.org/0165/texturetest_s.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<img src="http://www.mendasp.net/stuff/wip/ns2_mendasp_room5-wip13-4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.mendasp.net/stuff/wip/ns2_mendasp_room5-wip13-5.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I changed the textures... I think it's really done now.
<img src="http://www.mendasp.net/stuff/wip/ns2_mendasp_room5-wip13-6.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.mendasp.net/stuff/wip/ns2_mendasp_room5-wip13-7.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I'm also wondering how the tech point can be built by marines again after getting "broken" (the hive build animation breaks the tech point, apparently).
This is the closest I got from the mapping guidelines:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Each team starts with a Command Station or Hive, so every map should be designed with a “Marine Start†(MS) and “Alien Start†(AS).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm also wondering how the tech point can be built by marines again after getting "broken" (the hive build animation breaks the tech point, apparently).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, the start points are fixed, but if the marines could never take a tech point that the aliens had already built, that would be... interesting, from a gameplay perspective. I have to assume it's possible for tech points to change hands in either direction, which means I think its possible (however unlikely) for the aliens to take MS, as long as the 'rines have another tech point built. Seems like the safer assumption anyway, although if a final decision has been made, some dev clarification would be great.
<strike>A wizard</strike> nanites did it!
It's supposed to be huge crevice; the floor is basicly a pit of doom.
<img src="http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3796/ns10t.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/5376/ns11.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />