Commanding proxy workers vs human building
Rogue Eagle
Join Date: 2010-07-19 Member: 72551Members
Join Date: 2010-07-19 Member: 72551Members
<div class="IPBDescription">These new robot things that build your buildings.</div>In NS2 we see those commander controlled robots/alien things that do the building of the commander. While I see this as an advantage in some ways as the team can get out of the base quicker and aren't tied up behind a building holding e for ages I want to highlight a couple of ways this may impact NS as we know it.
In the old natural selection one of its charms was base relocation and a last ditch attempt to survive. Some of my best memories from the old Natural Selection were from a commander building an entire base in a cramped vent or small room and everyone trying to survive there while being gassed out by lerks.
After jumping into NS2 just a few minutes ago I got talking about this, and other people agreed that random base building was one of their favourite aspects of the game. So I thought I'd bring it here.
The builder bots etc. are a good idea, but could we have the option to have a marine build 'e' as well? Perhaps have all the building options given to commander directly, rather than going through a bot to build it. I think it'd add a good level of extra flexibility to the game.
Even if not originally intended, being able to have this kind of flexibility really added to the NS1 experience.
In the old natural selection one of its charms was base relocation and a last ditch attempt to survive. Some of my best memories from the old Natural Selection were from a commander building an entire base in a cramped vent or small room and everyone trying to survive there while being gassed out by lerks.
After jumping into NS2 just a few minutes ago I got talking about this, and other people agreed that random base building was one of their favourite aspects of the game. So I thought I'd bring it here.
The builder bots etc. are a good idea, but could we have the option to have a marine build 'e' as well? Perhaps have all the building options given to commander directly, rather than going through a bot to build it. I think it'd add a good level of extra flexibility to the game.
Even if not originally intended, being able to have this kind of flexibility really added to the NS1 experience.
Comments
Marines should also have the ability to build. I can envisage massive frustration of having to babysit an AI unit through a frontline in order to create a fwd base.
As soon as you see the marines break the lines then all the aliens would need to do would be to kill the builder bot and then pick off the marines 1 by 1 knowing that there is no way for them to call in backup.
As for building more stations, that should be a Emergency Drop and only 1 allowed per game. Making it more meaningful to have when you need it. Also, your speed decreases 25% meaning you will have to have people protecting you and Marines can build.
Yes, it is the "Carry Station". XD
I like the idea of marines not being able to build. It means aliens can target the builder bots to prevent expansion and marines have to guard / escort them very carefully. Different to NS1, but I think it's a good change.
Will be cool as a skulk to lurk outside tech points and ambush builder bots trying to move through the map without an escort.
I feel that the objective behind build bots is to give the commander a more obvious role, before it was more a god over viewing the battle magically making med-kits and ammo appear. Now the commander has a role which is clear, obvious and has a major impact on the game for the better.
I think most NS1 players will admit that their hearts raced when they could hear the aliens walking by and were trying to build a res nod, a turret factory or a new base. It was intense.
As for base relocation, I think it was one of the best aspects of the game and should not be limited. It changed the strategies for some maps and created situations that were never envisioned.
+1 for E key
I think most NS1 players will admit that their hearts raced when they could hear the aliens walking by and were trying to build a res nod, a turret factory or a new base. It was intense.
As for base relocation, I think it was one of the best aspects of the game and should not be limited. It changed the strategies for some maps and created situations that were never envisioned.
+1 for E key<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This can still be achieved with build bots it's just they need to be escorted, or hope they make it and get the structure up. This also avoids the spam build whereby 5 marines would sprint to a corner of the map and build up a whole base in 30 seconds.
+1 for build bots.
+1 for build bots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do you solve the issue with building in other parts of the map behind enemy lines? Plus they die REALLY easily. How about the marines just build things at 1/3 the rate? and I will really miss the heart beating fast because I am hoping the aliens don't spot me cause it will take too long for my weapon to redraw out to shoot them.
When they announced an AI builder/welder, I was happy because nobody had to stay behind to fortify base and develop techtrees, which would come down to more guns in the field.
But this... this is crap because its a bottleneck in a whole different location, and thats where it hurts <b>me</b>.
With this "feature", you can just about play any MINDLESS realtime strategy game out there.
I acknowledge the need for UWE to bring in as many players as possible, but kicking the old players in the ass that loved it how it was in the process is the wrong way to go.
Yes, thats the way i see it too.Â
but until the lag & fps-issue is solved, we won't be able to verify/falsify our thought-exoeriments :-)
I just give up.
Wait till the game is further developed before you start making conclusions on game play that we've yet to see. Demanding sweeping game play changes that will completely change the dynamic of NS2.
(prays that Flayra doesn't listen to these people)
I wouldn't say it is a sweeping change, I just wanted the idea out there for discussion and from what I have seen there are quite a few people that are concerned about it. I will still play the game and enjoy it I think, but I want to make it the best game it can be. Whats wrong with that?
I enjoyed having that window of vulnerability when building. You hear a skulk in a vent and you pause, waiting in silence, waiting until you feel like you are clear. Then you resume. The sounds from your invisible building tool fill your ears.... then a cloaked skulk bites you in the butt scaring the crap out of you. And no more base relocation? I agree that it's way too early to make judgements because at this point, it's not even a game yet. But I have to say, there are things that I miss that I hope end up in the beta/final.
You can make builder bots fly up the ceiling by telling it to travel to an elevated location. Click the top of a crane or something and the bot will zoom up there.
Oh and I support the introduction of builder bots for marines. It looks silly having marines build things with their bare hands.
Don't forget the builder bot has some abilities which aren't in the game yet so let's wait a bit~
I must admit I was a bit dubious about this too, and the concerns above I believe are valid, but as has been stated its too early to tell how this major change in direction effects the game's appeal, so I wont make a determination until i've put several hundred hours into game play :D
One could also argue that this is NS2 !.. so we dont want a copy paste of the old system, unlike Starcraft 2 which just seems to be the same with better graphics.
Agree. 50 % of the game I've seen in good other 50 % reminds me of mindless booring console games.
MACs aren't only going to be there to build, they will be a part of your team, which will be commander controlled.
MACs aren't only going to be there to build, they will be a part of your team, which will be commander controlled.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good post.
The point of the MAC is to give the commander more to do, allow them to actually influence what's happening on the ground. Rather than be infuriated because their only tool to aid their marines was dropping med-kits.
As long as the bots are efficient and predictable, it sounds great though. Building was always a chore to me.
*bottom is copy and paste from post building buildings since they 2 topics coincide with each other*
They could do some pretty cool stuff with the MAC, if they ever get dynamic infestation in it could be one of the key things *have like a flamethrower of chem thrower to destroy infestation* and also have it be able to weld doors and such, they should just allow you to put in a squad with some pc players and have it follow them, and maybe have a dialogue box option to tell it what to do. Also maybe be able to upgrade it with more features, so basically the MAC won't be something cumbersome and annoying you have to escort around but something you want to bring with you because of its many uses. Also maybe a small illuminating device to in case infestation takes out lights.
That said, perhaps if marines could build a limited set of things. No RTs or command centres, but turrets and perhaps phase gates (if such things will even exist anymore). They'd of course build these things much slower than a MAC, and perhaps there'd be no benefit for more than one marine at a time working on a single structure. That'd still give some of the 'infiltration' action that we had in NS1, but make it a much higher risk-reward scenario.