The Hydra problem & solution.
BarerRudeROC
Join Date: 2010-10-01 Member: 74264Members
Join Date: 2010-10-01 Member: 74264Members
<div class="IPBDescription">A method to fixing the abuse of the hydra.</div><b><!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro--><div align='center'>THE HYDRA</div><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>
Please read my following method on how to improve the Hydra.
Any constructive criticism is welcomed as it will help make the game better,
and who knows?
Maybe, it could be implemented!
<b><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><u>PREDICAMENT</u><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>
As we all know, the Hydra is the primary antagonist of marine advancement in NS2.
Yet, every game we see gorges abusing their power and lay as many Hydras as possible.
Today I played a standard game.
4 vs 4 and everything was going well.
Except that one of my allies took up the mantle of the Gorge.
As he went on his way I noticed something.
He would never stop making Hydras.
Eventually with the help of us and some tricks,
he got to the enemy base and began his operation.
Everywhere he planted Hydras and crept closer and closer to the marine portal.
Eventually the marines would die instantly when they appeared.
Not only was there spawn-camping (which is unfair to some extent),
but he also created lag.
Before I knew it connection problems were rife.
Eventually as more Hydras were made it got worse and worse until the majority of us were disconnected.
Not only is this unfair, but it also downright ruins the players experience and thus ruins the game.
<b><u><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->METHOD<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u></b>
Here is my proposal to fix the Hydra.
We could always limit the amount of Hydras that can be planted,
but that would remove a core element of playing Gorge,
and thus put people off.
If there were a limit I'd put it to around 20 per Gorge.
Yet there is one method we can pursue....
We all know Dynamic Infestation.
It is coming around the late beta and it will be awesome.
My idea is that the hydra relies on Dynamic Infestation.
When planted on ground that is not infested,
it will slowly lose HP over time (1 hydra lasts approximately 7 minutes until death),
thus eliminating the lag caused by random Hydras,
and the hardship of being spawn-camped.
Yet if planted on Dynamic Infestation, it will not lose HP.
Thus making the hives more suitable places for hydras,
and improving defence!
This could also improve and retract on Marine raids.
Whereas now they are able to take areas easily,
but will also have to work together (A.K.A Teamwork) to bring down the Kharaa hives.
<b><u><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Result<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u></b>
Not only does this prevent spam and lag,
but it also reinforces the Gorges role of <u>defense</u> in the game.
And allows him to be of more credit to the team,
and improves player experience!
<b><u><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Conclusion<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u></b>
Some of you may scoff the idea and say nothing needs to be changed,
but to some it does.
And it is a problem.
It's the little things that make a game a game.
And the players of the game are what truly matters.
I'd welcome any comments on my idea :)
Thanks for reading!
Please read my following method on how to improve the Hydra.
Any constructive criticism is welcomed as it will help make the game better,
and who knows?
Maybe, it could be implemented!
<b><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><u>PREDICAMENT</u><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>
As we all know, the Hydra is the primary antagonist of marine advancement in NS2.
Yet, every game we see gorges abusing their power and lay as many Hydras as possible.
Today I played a standard game.
4 vs 4 and everything was going well.
Except that one of my allies took up the mantle of the Gorge.
As he went on his way I noticed something.
He would never stop making Hydras.
Eventually with the help of us and some tricks,
he got to the enemy base and began his operation.
Everywhere he planted Hydras and crept closer and closer to the marine portal.
Eventually the marines would die instantly when they appeared.
Not only was there spawn-camping (which is unfair to some extent),
but he also created lag.
Before I knew it connection problems were rife.
Eventually as more Hydras were made it got worse and worse until the majority of us were disconnected.
Not only is this unfair, but it also downright ruins the players experience and thus ruins the game.
<b><u><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->METHOD<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u></b>
Here is my proposal to fix the Hydra.
We could always limit the amount of Hydras that can be planted,
but that would remove a core element of playing Gorge,
and thus put people off.
If there were a limit I'd put it to around 20 per Gorge.
Yet there is one method we can pursue....
We all know Dynamic Infestation.
It is coming around the late beta and it will be awesome.
My idea is that the hydra relies on Dynamic Infestation.
When planted on ground that is not infested,
it will slowly lose HP over time (1 hydra lasts approximately 7 minutes until death),
thus eliminating the lag caused by random Hydras,
and the hardship of being spawn-camped.
Yet if planted on Dynamic Infestation, it will not lose HP.
Thus making the hives more suitable places for hydras,
and improving defence!
This could also improve and retract on Marine raids.
Whereas now they are able to take areas easily,
but will also have to work together (A.K.A Teamwork) to bring down the Kharaa hives.
<b><u><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Result<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u></b>
Not only does this prevent spam and lag,
but it also reinforces the Gorges role of <u>defense</u> in the game.
And allows him to be of more credit to the team,
and improves player experience!
<b><u><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Conclusion<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u></b>
Some of you may scoff the idea and say nothing needs to be changed,
but to some it does.
And it is a problem.
It's the little things that make a game a game.
And the players of the game are what truly matters.
I'd welcome any comments on my idea :)
Thanks for reading!
Comments
This is actually a pretty good idea.
It's just too easy to hydra farm marine start nowadays. Or any other part of the map, really. It might be good to simply put a cap on the amount that are allowed per server, and divide that between all the players, or current gorges.
That way you could tax a cost on placing these nodes, but they are also a necessity in order for hydras to be placed offensively where there's already no creep.
With this you would rather than being able to toss them up pretty much anywhere you please, be constricted by the time for infestation to build and then spread out decently meaning it's a investment in time rather than resources. And in offensive situations time is almost always more valuable than cost (you could have X amount of Gorges saving up and then with little deployment time be able to hit that spot where they have no chance to retaliate).
Also in addition it would add something for that secondary-fire to the "weapon 2" selection and actually give the Gorges that ability to influence Infestation that the developers have been talking about adding. Toss in some "High Sight" on all marines that walk upon Infestation and maybe a small hp-regen for aliens while on it and you have yourself a very valuable addition.
It would also be wise to allow the alien commander to recycle any player built structures, so those hydra farms can be cleared out when they're no longer necessary.
Also give the gorge another structure or two to drop, like a mini healing pod or something, something to buff an area of hydras but prevent them from simply spamming them constantly.
Also make it so you can't place them near marine structures.
And nerf the damage.
And give marines a better anti structure weapon at the start.
I usually see Gorges running to the enemy base and planting useless hydras on their route for no reason.
These Hydras that do nothing lag up the server quite heavily.
My method is to combat this problem and prevent any unnecessary lag.
<!--quoteo(post=1807279:date=Nov 20 2010, 05:12 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Nov 20 2010, 05:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1807279"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Considering how powerful hydras are I would have thought a hard cap would be perfectly reasonable and sensible. I would suggest about eight per gorge.
Also give the gorge another structure or two to drop, like a mini healing pod or something, something to buff an area of hydras but prevent them from simply spamming them constantly.
Also make it so you can't place them near marine structures.
And nerf the damage.
And give marines a better anti structure weapon at the start.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Hydra almost seems too powerful at times,
if its health were to decrease over time this would make fighting much easier IMO
Dynamic infestation idea from OP is not bad either if combined.
Because then people would probably just put up hydrawalls along the DI all the way, making roadblocks as they went along.
So you still need some form of limitation to the amount of hydras active.. Either through costs or just a plain hardcap (putting up a new hydra while at cap removes the first one you put down)
What could be very usefull for limiting hydra spamming aswell, is a cap on the personal resources, where if you gain more, it goes to the commander, or maybe a share pool that slowly leaks resources into players who havent hit the cap.
OCs had a cap per room , it's still needed.
Hydra resource cost could be dynamically altered to account for many things , not just the total number of active hydras - could be proximity to hive , dynamic infestation , other hydras , tech structures ect. But gorges need the option to spend their resources on something more expensive as well.
A simple resolution is to give the gorge other small building options to dump his res into instead of just the hydra.
I think one would be some sort of DI generating node so the gorge can quickly start spreading DI into areas and prepping it for the alien expansion that will soon follow.
Another should be some sort of small support building. I can't think of anything good right now, but as someone said above possibly a extremely weak healing building like a baby crag. Or maybe a sensor node that's very easy to hide and when marines walk close to it shows the alien team their presence, pretty much a extremely limited and weak SC, but a critical early warning system for hives and other crucial areas.
Another could be possibly a biological mine. It is hidden extremely well on DI forcing the marines to actually burn through DI to insure their safe passage, but off DI it is a lot easier to see. It automatically explodes when a marine steps on it, but it can also be triggered by any ranged weapon. This would allow the gorge to plant them behind doors and around corners and than detonate them with a spit the moment a marine comes within range.
Just some thoughts, but by giving him multiple options, it gives gorges a lot more versatility, makes him funner to play, and forces the player to make thoughtful decisions. If they just spam hydras they won't be able to build DI or anything else for their team.
I do like the idea though of gorge buildings not being able to sustain themselves of DI forcing the gorge to either first spend the res spreading DI nodes or continually baby sitting his defense with heal sprays. Either way it would help because it would limit hydra spam by forcing him to either spend res on a DI node first or force him to stay in one place to "tend" to his hydra field.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=111485" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=111485</a>
The Hair Defensive Structure
The first idea i had for a new defensive structure was a passive structure, the hair does not cause any damage at all on its own to marines but can be effective in the right situation. It appears like an awful blister of alien matter with a single thick long white hair growing from its center roughly as tall as a Whip. The hair is coated in a paralysing slime and wavers around in the air gently from its base. Marines cannot shoot the hair structure it is immune to bullets, however the switch axe and flamer will kill a hair structure. Once a marine tries to pass near a hair structure his movement is restricted to a very slow walk almost a crawl as the hair sticks to his suit and also paralyses his movement whilst he is near it.
The usefulness of a hair structure is that it can be used to slow down marine movent through an area allowing support from other laiens or agressive structures to kill them.
The Funnel Healing Structure
The funnel is a sort of funnel shaped wound upon the ground spewed from the mouth of a gorge, the funnel apears like a fonutain constantly speweing out healing spray from its top. this healing spray will heal nearby structures (slower than a crag) due to its constant coverage of healing spray the funnel is immune to fire attacks and will also put out fire on structures within its vicinity. The funnel is however very weak to bullet attacks and so must be protected to keep it alive.
The Spore Support Structure
The spore is a passive structure that can be activated by an alien commander, once spewed by a gorge the spore apears like a bubbling spot which throbs and moves with the foul fluid within it. A spore can be activated by a commander causing it to explode so gorges placing them around corners or in strategic places will help the commander cause as much damage as possible with it. Possibly giving an upgrade to the spore so that upon detinating it will produce babblers
You mean for example, like the pustules in Amnesia the dark descent?
I think this could work quite well.
But it would make the Marines mission alot harder.
Since it's assumed that the lag issue will be dealt with, I still think a cap per player is needed. Possibly make it so you can build 2 at the start, and for every living hive you get one extra. Any extra Hydra built would be refunded for a percentage of Plasma and destroy the oldest Hydra. It's still a tricky subject either way, since an entire (coordinated) team can quickly evolve into a gorge and plop down a handful of Hydras.
It also wouldn't hurt if the Whip buildings fared better than Hydras. They're really tough but aren't very popular defensively or offensively unless it's a really tight corner.
I would like to think both, through hydras (maybe) and commander-built structures. Hell, maybe the Gorge can barf something onto a destroyed power node that triggers infestation in the room (though, it might be too similar to the power node function).
But you see, most times a commander doesn't even have enough turrets up to stop it.
Sentrys can't be made in time and repositioned (currently theres a bug where you can't change the direction of sentrys)
I've seen cases where Gorges just run by sentrys, get to the base and just spam.
If you look at the picture provided.
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=352138168104&set=a.95246163104.83850.87948998104&pid=3762576&id=87948998104" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=352...;id=87948998104</a>
Look at "Shift"
If you know anything about NS you'll know that shift promotes movement to the surrounding Kharaa.
Now look closer at the shift.
See those tendrils?
The look a lot like some infestation eh?
Doesn't it say that Dynamic Infestation will help Kharaa movement?
I think we found the commanders tool for spreading infestation ;)
I hope that one day we can 36 player maps with NS2.
On the humongous maps, battling for resources.
Yet we only have 4 small maps planned and we can barely play 4 vs 4
Another alternative would be giving the Gorge a second small building he can build, something like a creep tumor
(<a href="http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Creep_tumor" target="_blank">http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Creep_tumor</a>, in the case of NS2 it shouldn't be invisible or be able to reproduce itself, it's the only building alongside the hive to be planted outside of infestation) that spreads Infestation, however limiting the Gorge to only be able to build 5 buildings in general, meaning that he can either plant 5 tumors, 5 hydras or a mix between the both, but at the end it would mean less hydras.
Once a "creep tumor" has done its job and spread the infestation far enough it recycles itself to prevent the gorge from having some of his building slots wasted by tumors that linger around somewhere far away from the enemy.
If you then go further and allow hydras to only be planted on infestation you have done a step to prevent hydra spam and excessive spawn camping.
And while we are at it, a sentry limit should be added too (lets say 3-4 sentries per CC), not out of performance reasons, more because it's just as lame as hydra spam.
Another alternative would be giving the Gorge a second small building he can build, something like a creep tumor
(<a href="http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Creep_tumor" target="_blank">http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Creep_tumor</a>, in the case of NS2 it shouldn't be invisible or be able to reproduce itself, it's the only building alongside the hive to be planted outside of infestation) that spreads Infestation, however limiting the Gorge to only be able to build 5 buildings in general, meaning that he can either plant 5 tumors, 5 hydras or a mix between the both, but at the end it would mean less hydras.
Once a "creep tumor" has done its job and spread the infestation far enough it recycles itself to prevent the gorge from having some of his building slots wasted by tumors that linger around somewhere far away from the enemy.
If you then go further and allow hydras to only be planted on infestation you have done a step to prevent hydra spam and excessive spawn camping.
And while we are at it, a sentry limit should be added too (lets say 3-4 sentries per CC), not out of performance reasons, more because it's just as lame as hydra spam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I said in the other comment,
there's already a building planned called "shift" which we think spreads DI.
Which the gorge creates and maybe to some the extent,
the commander is able to create it as well.