AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
i really don't have a problem with it, circle strafing works perfectly, actually, i'm now able to kill more skulks, simply because before i didn't circle straf.
that beeing said, going backward should not limit the strafe speed. other than that i'm fine.
after a bit of playing,i am going to say, you arnt going to be backpeddling in a group of 4 marines, any fade dumb enough to run into 2 sgs, a gl and a flamer isnt gonna have time to even chase down that backpeddling marine, he'lld rop in 2 seconds, same thing with marines vs skulks, stand and bloody aim dont panic and shoot and hope your teammates can do the same and the skulk wont even reach half a meter within you
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i really don't have a problem with it, circle strafing works perfectly, actually, i'm now able to kill more skulks, simply because before i didn't circle straf.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because you dont miss it, doesnt mean its ineffective or should stay as it is. Happy that it improved your stats... sad how bad your movement must have been before.
Again nobody said we want 100% speed back. 80% like in all tactical shooters(aimed for slower movement) nowadays should be good enough. (70% lowest if uwe really think this is needed)
If you think aliens need a autowin against a lone marine ability, make attacks slow marine movement slighly for a very short period of time... hit -> 20%slow for 0,5-1s (or make it an tier2 upgrade)
<!--quoteo(post=1818697:date=Dec 23 2010, 08:50 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Dec 23 2010, 08:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818697"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->slow backwards speed is what made NS1 i reckon, its so simple, but is awesome.
it gives the marines 2 choices:
1. hold your ground and shoot
2. turn around and run away
none of this running backwards at full speed while shooting, its mental.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS 100% marine running backwards is ridiculous it has no place in ns2. Marines need to learn to work as a team, while you run away, your teammate can be shooting, then he can run away while you shoot. Simple marine tactic that is very effective...
Speed is perfect right now, marines should NEVER be able to run backwards and shoot its just horrible and it breaks the game, Can you imagine late game just marines everywhere running backwards with flamethrowers just invincible.
@zex, have you ever fired a gun? nonetheless a high powered shotgun or rifle, There is <u><b>NO WAY</b></u> you could run backwards and aim that thing and hit anywhere near where you are aiming. You've been watching too many die-hard reruns.
MARINES ARE TOO MOBILE STILL, this is the fundamentals of the game, Marines have range, Aliens have speed. Imo marines need to nerf the running/sprint ability and slow to a crawl when back pedaling. The fact that 1 newbie marine and just back pedal away from a fade forever is just ridiculous and it breaks the game. In ns1, marines got very good at side stepping and dancing, and it was part of the beauty of ns1. If they increase the back peddling speed again, Any old newb can hold backwards and fire and kill fades left and right. running backwards and shooting takes ALL THE SKILL out of it for marines, learn how to duck, side step, run away, use your team mates etc etc. This talk of increasing the speed is serious, and you fools will break the game if you are able to run away and shoot at the same time. Heres an idea, dont run down hall-ways without backup. If you are letting alien players catch up to you and start biting you, and you STILL ARENT MOVING you freaking deserve to die, dont ask for god-mode in the game just cause you cant use the strafe keys.
<!--quoteo(post=1819186:date=Dec 25 2010, 12:32 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Dec 25 2010, 12:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1819186"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->moving backwards more slowly makes sense superficially, but when you think about it its actually an arbitrary nerf. It's perfectly possible, IRL, to<b> run forwards while looking back over your shoulder and even aiming/firing</b>. That's what moving backwards in a FPS game represents, since most games don't allow independent head/body movement for the sake of simplicty.
In other words, 's' shouldn't be thought of as walking/running backwards, it should be thought of as running forwards while aiming backwards. So perhaps, if backwards movement needs to be nerfed, it would make more sense to nerf weapon spread to simulate the fact that it would be slightly harder to aim a rifle backwards over one's shoulder.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... no, this is not done. Ever. In the military, when someone wants to go backwards, they have a squadmate cover them while the turn and haul ass, often using a cascading shooting line of soldiers, or by sprinting from cover to cover and only shooting once behind cover. Shooting behind you while running is a great way to injure yourself from mishandled recoil, or to shoot a teammate from the LUDICROUSLY bad aim you'll have. There's a reason you hold a rifle tight to your shoulder, or grip the underside of a pistol grip with your second hand.
i didn't say it was a proper fighting technique taught in basic training, i said its perfectly possible to run forward and look/aim/shoot behind you with average human biomechanics. Somethng which nobody has contested, and rightfully so.
Unbind the backwards key is so senseless, in every game i think the backwards key is the most important. To reduce it to 40% is too much. I think 60% would be enough.
The dreamland of realistic military simulators vs arcade movement aliens - good idea.
This is a game. Not a simulator.
You try to force movement tactics that are usually only possible with ai controled units - this wont be fun.
GO GIVE US PACMAN MOVEMENT AS MARINES!!! AND MAKE ALIENS INTO GHOSTS.
(so the noobs playing/failing @aliens only can be happy)
40% back speed:
Comments Pro: Usually a comment like this - marines are too fast i m a noob they should be even slower. I dont play marines anyway - so nerf them how much you want. I think this game should be more realistic for marines *** ps: i got 5 guns at home... Amercia F*CK YEAH! *** (JOKE)
Comments Against: Reduced Backspeed is ok but 40% is too slow.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
The more i play with that change and the more i think about it the more i love it. It really increases teamplay, removes rambos and adds a skill based movement, circle straffing. Love it:-)
I like it because It forces me to circle strafe. I don't like it because It feels like I go from running to sneaking It's so slow. If they increase the backwards speed just a bit it
would still require you to circle strafe while the consequences will be less if you forget and accidentally hit your back key, thinking you can backpedal and shoot up the aliens.
<!--quoteo(post=1819600:date=Dec 27 2010, 12:41 AM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Dec 27 2010, 12:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1819600"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The dreamland of realistic military simulators vs arcade movement aliens - good idea.
This is a game. Not a simulator.
You try to force movement tactics that are usually only possible with ai controled units - this wont be fun.
GO GIVE US PACMAN MOVEMENT AS MARINES!!! AND MAKE ALIENS INTO GHOSTS.
(so the noobs playing/failing @aliens only can be happy)
40% back speed:
Comments Pro: Usually a comment like this - marines are too fast i m a noob they should be even slower. I dont play marines anyway - so nerf them how much you want. I think this game should be more realistic for marines *** ps: i got 5 guns at home... Amercia F*CK YEAH! *** (JOKE)
Comments Against: Reduced Backspeed is ok but 40% is too slow.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seriously, this kind of post doesn't help anybody and is purely de-constructive. I think the devs can sort out arguments just fine by themselves. They don't need anybody rampaging on other users posts, whatever "noble" cause it may be.
If we can't keep it friendly we better keep it to ourselves.
seriously Bobby? how is your poast helping or being constructive, then? Because all I see from you is a personal attack against someone who poasted some very good points. Why don't you keep to the topic of the thread instead of personal attacks?????
There are only two things that sum the entire point of this thread up and need noticing, said sensibly by the following two people;
<!--quoteo(post=1818945:date=Dec 24 2010, 04:50 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Dec 24 2010, 04:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818945"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just don't see what the big issue is, it was like this in ns1 and i don't remember anyone having an issue with it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1819033:date=Dec 24 2010, 01:29 PM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tjosan @ Dec 24 2010, 01:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1819033"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're not restricted by the DPS of your avatar or it's armour. You're restricted by your own skill. Deal with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1819673:date=Dec 27 2010, 09:23 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Dec 27 2010, 09:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1819673"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->seriously Bobby? how is your poast helping or being constructive, then? Because all I see from you is a personal attack against someone who poasted some very good points. Why don't you keep to the topic of the thread instead of personal attacks?????<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting. All you see from me are personal attacks? Well, how about showing me one? I surely like to go a little bit into an argument with users (when I don't agree), I admit that, but I don't attack them personally.
If you compare all of my posts in this thread (which is exactly three, including this one) you see that I agree with Koruyos "summary post" (110). My second post was purely related to the issue that the tone in here (any maybe the board in general) has become harsh over the last weeks.I really don't know why this is happing but someone people think that they have to convince every user of their idea which they simply CANT. Different people have different opinions and in the end the devs decide. I'm sorry that it "hit" Koruyos because in general he makes well thought and well qualified posts but this time he simply didn't. It also could have been anybody else. The only thing this kind of post leads to is flame wars because people WILL feel offended by it. There might be a hidden argument in there but I doubt people want to dive deeper into it once reading. So all I will to is shorten my last sentence to: Keep it friendly!
I don't think anyone else wants to see them, except for the sick freaks.
On Topic: I do remember there being limited backwalk in NS1, does anyone remember what speed it was in relation to normal movement? And I suppose if its the same, maybe keep it in for more testing, as I certainly had a knee-jerk reaction to the slowed movement.
<!--quoteo(post=1819723:date=Dec 27 2010, 09:24 PM:name=Wyattx3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wyattx3 @ Dec 27 2010, 09:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1819723"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can we take the rants to PMs please?
I don't think anyone else wants to see them, except for the sick freaks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks for making my point.
<!--quoteo(post=1819723:date=Dec 27 2010, 09:24 PM:name=Wyattx3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wyattx3 @ Dec 27 2010, 09:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1819723"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On Topic: I do remember there being limited backwalk in NS1, does anyone remember what speed it was in relation to normal movement? And I suppose if its the same, maybe keep it in for more testing, as I certainly had a knee-jerk reaction to the slowed movement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As the changelist says: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Reduced backward speed for marines (now 40% of max movement speed, like NS1)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1819723:date=Dec 27 2010, 08:24 PM:name=Wyattx3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wyattx3 @ Dec 27 2010, 08:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1819723"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can we take the rants to PMs please? I don't think anyone else wants to see them, except for the sick freaks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anyone arguing that "it's the same as it was in NS1" is missing the point entirely. Just because the backwards speed is the same doesn't mean we have the same freedom of movement. The reduced strafe speed and non-existent air acceleration make it almost impossible to dodge. That is the main point here.
Its slow enough to be unrealistic at this point. After all, full speed is achieved by sprinting in ns2, no one is asking to be able to sprint backwards. 60% should be ok (not sure, test it) but it should be less noticeable but still result in marine death more often than not. As low as it is it feels like forcing proper behavior, let noobs run backwards if they want. If you have to, add a giant accuracy penalty.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As low as it is it feels like forcing proper behavior, let noobs run backwards if they want<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya right, let us noobs walk backwards.
Yo Pros dont move at all, and if - all you do is sidestrafe jump 360° no scope headshots with the knife. :/
You play no games with a back button right? -> clearly that must be a game for noobs.
Did a couple 160 games today - i didnt find the backward movement annoying based on the way i'm used to playing, but i played a bunch of ns1. i see the point though - if you're used to dart out/in type of play, then this screws up timing.
current performance, lag (strobo-skulk) impacts melee combat more than this backward speed issue. I'd like to see that fixed before tweaking this further.
<!--quoteo(post=1819796:date=Dec 27 2010, 11:19 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Dec 27 2010, 11:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1819796"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You play no games with a back button right? -> clearly that must be a game for noobs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could you take a second to understand my point? I'm arguing for a higher backwards speed after all.
If you go super slow backwards, moving backwards isn't even worth it in low intensity situations. If you have reduced but reasonable backward speed and there is an alternative, more effective method for staying alive (i.e. strafing) then it is still a bad idea to try to backpedal (obviously dependent on circumstance). Right now, if you want to move 5 feet backwards to get a wider view of a room it is more efficient to turn around run 5 feet and turn back around again then just to take the steps backward.
Well, I guess we have two options: Do you want to enforce 'proper behaviour'? Or do you want to change the idea of what is 'proper behaviour'?
If you want to enforce it, then keep backwards move speed as it is, but make it more extreme, so 'noobs' know it's not an option. You could either: remove backpedalling entirely. Or: create a penalty, e.g. bringing your weapon up (like when you sprint). Both are extreme, maybe silly, but they get the point across: don't backpedal in a fight (or at all).
If you want to change what is considered 'proper behaviour' (from NS1), then restore backwards movespeed to 100%, or at least something less extreme than 40%, e.g. 80%. Then you make backwards movement an option: especially in battle.
In the early minutes of a round it's a big disadvantage to the marines, when they only have their basic rifle. But as soon as marines get grenade launchers and flamethrowers it's a good thing, because a marine with the ability to throw flames AND walk backwards at the same speed as forwards would be too deadly imo.
Therefore I think it might be a good idea to only have this handicap when wielding a 'heavy' weapon.
<!--quoteo(post=1819861:date=Dec 28 2010, 03:50 PM:name=Dennis_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dennis_ @ Dec 28 2010, 03:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1819861"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the early minutes of a round it's a big disadvantage to the marines, when they only have their basic rifle. But as soon as marines get grenade launchers and flamethrowers it's a good thing, because a marine with the ability to throw flames AND walk backwards at the same speed as forwards would be too deadly imo.
Therefore I think it might be a good idea to only have this handicap when wielding a 'heavy' weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Like I've said before: It's not a balancing feature at this point. The present combat style and balance are going to change radically once people are getting stable high FPS and the hitreg works reliably. Right now it's about the ideals of gameplay.
<!--quoteo(post=1819870:date=Dec 28 2010, 03:58 PM:name=Dennis_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dennis_ @ Dec 28 2010, 03:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1819870"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You must be right. :)
Still it's fun to discuss how this should be handled in the final version.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, we should excatly discuss how it should go in the final version. That's the ideal of gameplay I was talking.
What I meant by it being not a balance feature is that NS2 itself in its present state shouldn't be used as a strict or limiting context. At this point it's about what you'd like to see in your all time favourite game and not so much what the gameplay needs in the very next patch.
Obviously it all has to blend together somewhere in the future, but it's something only the actual developers can and must worry about.
Comments
that beeing said, going backward should not limit the strafe speed. other than that i'm fine.
Just because you dont miss it, doesnt mean its ineffective or should stay as it is. Happy that it improved your stats... sad how bad your movement must have been before.
Again nobody said we want 100% speed back. 80% like in all tactical shooters(aimed for slower movement) nowadays should be good enough. (70% lowest if uwe really think this is needed)
If you think aliens need a autowin against a lone marine ability, make attacks slow marine movement slighly for a very short period of time... hit -> 20%slow for 0,5-1s (or make it an tier2 upgrade)
it gives the marines 2 choices:
1. hold your ground and shoot
2. turn around and run away
none of this running backwards at full speed while shooting, its mental.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS 100% marine running backwards is ridiculous it has no place in ns2. Marines need to learn to work as a team, while you run away, your teammate can be shooting, then he can run away while you shoot. Simple marine tactic that is very effective...
Speed is perfect right now, marines should NEVER be able to run backwards and shoot its just horrible and it breaks the game, Can you imagine late game just marines everywhere running backwards with flamethrowers just invincible.
@zex, have you ever fired a gun? nonetheless a high powered shotgun or rifle, There is <u><b>NO WAY</b></u> you could run backwards and aim that thing and hit anywhere near where you are aiming. You've been watching too many die-hard reruns.
MARINES ARE TOO MOBILE STILL, this is the fundamentals of the game, Marines have range, Aliens have speed. Imo marines need to nerf the running/sprint ability and slow to a crawl when back pedaling. The fact that 1 newbie marine and just back pedal away from a fade forever is just ridiculous and it breaks the game. In ns1, marines got very good at side stepping and dancing, and it was part of the beauty of ns1. If they increase the back peddling speed again, Any old newb can hold backwards and fire and kill fades left and right. running backwards and shooting takes ALL THE SKILL out of it for marines, learn how to duck, side step, run away, use your team mates etc etc. This talk of increasing the speed is serious, and you fools will break the game if you are able to run away and shoot at the same time. Heres an idea, dont run down hall-ways without backup. If you are letting alien players catch up to you and start biting you, and you STILL ARENT MOVING you freaking deserve to die, dont ask for god-mode in the game just cause you cant use the strafe keys.
In other words, 's' shouldn't be thought of as walking/running backwards, it should be thought of as running forwards while aiming backwards. So perhaps, if backwards movement needs to be nerfed, it would make more sense to nerf weapon spread to simulate the fact that it would be slightly harder to aim a rifle backwards over one's shoulder.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... no, this is not done. Ever. In the military, when someone wants to go backwards, they have a squadmate cover them while the turn and haul ass, often using a cascading shooting line of soldiers, or by sprinting from cover to cover and only shooting once behind cover. Shooting behind you while running is a great way to injure yourself from mishandled recoil, or to shoot a teammate from the LUDICROUSLY bad aim you'll have. There's a reason you hold a rifle tight to your shoulder, or grip the underside of a pistol grip with your second hand.
This is a game. Not a simulator.
You try to force movement tactics that are usually only possible with ai controled units - this wont be fun.
GO GIVE US PACMAN MOVEMENT AS MARINES!!!
AND MAKE ALIENS INTO GHOSTS.
(so the noobs playing/failing @aliens only can be happy)
40% back speed:
Comments Pro:
Usually a comment like this - marines are too fast i m a noob they should be even slower. I dont play marines anyway - so nerf them how much you want.
I think this game should be more realistic for marines *** ps: i got 5 guns at home... Amercia F*CK YEAH! *** (JOKE)
Comments Against:
Reduced Backspeed is ok but 40% is too slow.
Love it:-)
would still require you to circle strafe while the consequences will be less if you forget and accidentally hit your back key, thinking you can backpedal and shoot up the aliens.
This is a game. Not a simulator.
You try to force movement tactics that are usually only possible with ai controled units - this wont be fun.
GO GIVE US PACMAN MOVEMENT AS MARINES!!!
AND MAKE ALIENS INTO GHOSTS.
(so the noobs playing/failing @aliens only can be happy)
40% back speed:
Comments Pro:
Usually a comment like this - marines are too fast i m a noob they should be even slower. I dont play marines anyway - so nerf them how much you want.
I think this game should be more realistic for marines *** ps: i got 5 guns at home... Amercia F*CK YEAH! *** (JOKE)
Comments Against:
Reduced Backspeed is ok but 40% is too slow.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seriously, this kind of post doesn't help anybody and is purely de-constructive.
I think the devs can sort out arguments just fine by themselves. They don't need anybody rampaging on other users posts, whatever "noble" cause it may be.
If we can't keep it friendly we better keep it to ourselves.
<!--quoteo(post=1818945:date=Dec 24 2010, 04:50 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Dec 24 2010, 04:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1818945"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just don't see what the big issue is, it was like this in ns1 and i don't remember anyone having an issue with it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1819033:date=Dec 24 2010, 01:29 PM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tjosan @ Dec 24 2010, 01:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1819033"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're not restricted by the DPS of your avatar or it's armour. You're restricted by your own skill. Deal with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting. All you see from me are personal attacks? Well, how about showing me one?
I surely like to go a little bit into an argument with users (when I don't agree), I admit that, but I don't attack them personally.
If you compare all of my posts in this thread (which is exactly three, including this one) you see that I agree with Koruyos "summary post" (110). My second post was purely related to the issue that the tone in here (any maybe the board in general) has become harsh over the last weeks.I really don't know why this is happing but someone people think that they have to convince every user of their idea which they simply CANT.
Different people have different opinions and in the end the devs decide. I'm sorry that it "hit" Koruyos because in general he makes well thought and well qualified posts but this time he simply didn't. It also could have been anybody else. The only thing this kind of post leads to is flame wars because people WILL feel offended by it. There might be a hidden argument in there but I doubt people want to dive deeper into it once reading.
So all I will to is shorten my last sentence to: Keep it friendly!
I don't think anyone else wants to see them, except for the sick freaks.
On Topic: I do remember there being limited backwalk in NS1, does anyone remember what speed it was in relation to normal movement? And I suppose if its the same, maybe keep it in for more testing, as I certainly had a knee-jerk reaction to the slowed movement.
I don't think anyone else wants to see them, except for the sick freaks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for making my point.
<!--quoteo(post=1819723:date=Dec 27 2010, 09:24 PM:name=Wyattx3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wyattx3 @ Dec 27 2010, 09:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1819723"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On Topic: I do remember there being limited backwalk in NS1, does anyone remember what speed it was in relation to normal movement? And I suppose if its the same, maybe keep it in for more testing, as I certainly had a knee-jerk reaction to the slowed movement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As the changelist says:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Reduced backward speed for marines (now 40% of max movement speed, like NS1)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thanks for making my point
Ya right, let us noobs walk backwards.
Yo Pros dont move at all, and if - all you do is sidestrafe jump 360° no scope headshots with the knife. :/
You play no games with a back button right? -> clearly that must be a game for noobs.
Internetz... >_>
:o
Did a couple 160 games today - i didnt find the backward movement annoying based on the way i'm used to playing, but i played a bunch of ns1. i see the point though - if you're used to dart out/in type of play, then this screws up timing.
current performance, lag (strobo-skulk) impacts melee combat more than this backward speed issue. I'd like to see that fixed before tweaking this further.
Could you take a second to understand my point? I'm arguing for a higher backwards speed after all.
If you go super slow backwards, moving backwards isn't even worth it in low intensity situations. If you have reduced but reasonable backward speed and there is an alternative, more effective method for staying alive (i.e. strafing) then it is still a bad idea to try to backpedal (obviously dependent on circumstance). Right now, if you want to move 5 feet backwards to get a wider view of a room it is more efficient to turn around run 5 feet and turn back around again then just to take the steps backward.
Yo Pros dont move at all, and if - all you do is sidestrafe jump 360° no scope headshots with the knife. :/
You play no games with a back button right? -> clearly that must be a game for noobs.
Internetz... >_><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's right, I never use the back button when playing games.
Do you want to enforce 'proper behaviour'?
Or do you want to change the idea of what is 'proper behaviour'?
If you want to enforce it, then keep backwards move speed as it is, but make it more extreme, so 'noobs' know it's not an option. You could either: remove backpedalling entirely. Or: create a penalty, e.g. bringing your weapon up (like when you sprint). Both are extreme, maybe silly, but they get the point across: don't backpedal in a fight (or at all).
If you want to change what is considered 'proper behaviour' (from NS1), then restore backwards movespeed to 100%, or at least something less extreme than 40%, e.g. 80%. Then you make backwards movement an option: especially in battle.
Therefore I think it might be a good idea to only have this handicap when wielding a 'heavy' weapon.
Therefore I think it might be a good idea to only have this handicap when wielding a 'heavy' weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I've said before: It's not a balancing feature at this point. The present combat style and balance are going to change radically once people are getting stable high FPS and the hitreg works reliably. Right now it's about the ideals of gameplay.
Still it's fun to discuss how this should be handled in the final version.
Still it's fun to discuss how this should be handled in the final version.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, we should excatly discuss how it should go in the final version. That's the ideal of gameplay I was talking.
What I meant by it being not a balance feature is that NS2 itself in its present state shouldn't be used as a strict or limiting context. At this point it's about what you'd like to see in your all time favourite game and not so much what the gameplay needs in the very next patch.
Obviously it all has to blend together somewhere in the future, but it's something only the actual developers can and must worry about.