Please don't do anything drastic to marine/skulk balance
Tig
Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71674Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71674Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
<div class="IPBDescription">wait and watch</div>the title says it all.
dynamic lighting and much more complicated, propped levels = better ambush spots.
the lag hurts most marines and the new backpedal nerf is having noobs getting slaughtered by skulks.
all i'm saying is UWE should wait a patch or two to address skulk vs. marine.
i can kill skulks just fine. most of the people i see complaining about skulks being op don't ever pull out their pistols or use their flashlights or even wait for another marine to engage aliens with them.
solve the lag and this alleged skulk vs. marine balance issue will be solved. please don't do anything silly and fix something that isn't really broken. if you fix anything, address level 1 leap glitching (jumping and leaping at the same time while aiming up a bit). maybe 40% backwards speed becomes 60% as many of us have said (even though people just need to learn when to fight and when to turn and flee)
edit: speeling
dynamic lighting and much more complicated, propped levels = better ambush spots.
the lag hurts most marines and the new backpedal nerf is having noobs getting slaughtered by skulks.
all i'm saying is UWE should wait a patch or two to address skulk vs. marine.
i can kill skulks just fine. most of the people i see complaining about skulks being op don't ever pull out their pistols or use their flashlights or even wait for another marine to engage aliens with them.
solve the lag and this alleged skulk vs. marine balance issue will be solved. please don't do anything silly and fix something that isn't really broken. if you fix anything, address level 1 leap glitching (jumping and leaping at the same time while aiming up a bit). maybe 40% backwards speed becomes 60% as many of us have said (even though people just need to learn when to fight and when to turn and flee)
edit: speeling
Comments
Its not like Skulks are 1 hitting Marines with imba bites, its that Marine bullets are simply not registering on Skulks.
... though tightening up the LMG spread , and doubling the energy costs of Lerk rapid fire spikes and spores will make Marine play more even I think.
I agree with this. The only problem I have with skulks when I play as a marine is their fast movement + lag makes them hard to kill. Sometimes when I'm on a good server where nobody lags I can kill skulks like a bows.
It's nothing like NS1.
and maybe the low server tick..
In addition to this:
I think a good feeling collision system is pretty crucial in melee range fights. It's a lot easier to hit things when you've got a good grasp on where the lifeform can go and when it's going to bump into you. I've got a pretty low FPS, so I'm not sure how the collisions feel at best, but at least so far they've seemed a lot less reliable than in NS1.
On lower skills it basically means that the skulk reliably collides into you and you can take some free shots at it. On higher skill levels the skulk dodge prediction becomes a bigger factor.
not suitable level design, and lag = pwning skulks :)
atm its impossible to keep your crosshair on a moving skulk - the game just isnt smooth enough.
and the tight cramped map Rockdown, well its just not suitable.
i reckon you need to be able to see skulk foot step holes in the walls so that you can tell if a skulk might have crawled up there.
also early on, hand grenades would be great for clearing out ceiling areas
hypothetically it should affect humans and aliens in the same way, but given that skulks move so fast it's a serious disadvantage for humans.
/signed
etc.
Too many other issues are clouding the "true" state of game balance right now.
@peregrinus: While you are correct. Keep in mind where the bulk of UW's user feedback is coming from: People experiencing all the current problems, not a LAN non-lag environment. So, potentially small issues can get exaggerated. I'm not stating this as fact, just expressing my opinion.
<!--quoteo(post=1822106:date=Jan 6 2011, 04:52 PM:name=thecowsaysmoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (thecowsaysmoo @ Jan 6 2011, 04:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1822106"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->agreed 100%, balance takes time, and constantly changing the balance makes it harder. Leave it be for a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I found this statement especially ironic. Balancing takes time because you constantly need to change it. Its mostly a trial and error process that needs constant tweaking and feedback from playtesters.
it needs time because if you change sth players need to adapt first. try new stuff and get to know the changes. and after some time when everyone is used to these changes you can start to evaluate and elaborate.
so changing the balance constantly is not the right way to do so..because players have no time to adapt. so you don't know how the changes affected the gameplay for sure.
hence you need both
time to settle after a patch and constant tweaking (after said time)
+
Rines feel like tanks
+
Slow weapon switching
so changing the balance constantly is not the right way to do so..because players have no time to adapt. so you don't know how the changes affected the gameplay for sure.
hence you need both
time to settle after a patch and constant tweaking (after said time)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is a week or two not enough time for this? As far as I can tell most current NS2 beta players adapt to the changes almost immediately or within a day or two of each patch. Also, we can't playtest more advanced strategies (such as fade/lerk v gl/ft) as much because the initial marine v skulk matchup is so imbalanced.
i really don't think its that imbalanced. the lag just heavily favors skulks.
On the other hand, I wonder if the game would be more interesting, if Skulks are made tougher, but take 3 bites to take down a marine. At the moment, it only takes a Skulk 0.45 second to kill a marine with 2 bites, but only has the health to take about 1 second of rifle fire (adjusted for accuracy).
That can literally rush base and end the game at the start of the round if they so desired. Notice how such a feet is close to impossible for the marines.
They can kill a marine in about 2-3 bites (which comes down to about 1-second to kill a marine).
They have high armor and even dieing isn't a problem because they can respawn and race back to fight the same marine that just killed them in about 5-10 seconds.
They can bite non-stop WHILE JUMPING AROUND like a rabbit from hell. Their's no concept of ammunition or armories or reloading or even an adrenaline cool down.
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The OP nature of the skulk is best demonstrated by how they do not need to rely soley on stealth and tricks to win (sure they can, and make their characters even more successful... but the characteristic NS1 "skulking/parasiting-from-a-distance/antagonizing/stealth" behavior is not necessary and THAT is the problem). They can go into marine start, with confidence of getting 3 or more kills, at any stage of the game prior to flamethrower, and 1 good skulk can easily destroy a ip or armory without dieing + kill the commander if he logs out of the cc.
The ###### nerfed marine turrets are no help either. It takes a significant number of turrets to properly defend marine start, and skulks seem to have no trouble at all getting on/behind them and taking them out.
The marines are refraining from fighting the skulk and are now preferring long range attacks and stationary camping tactics where possible, because distance is the only advantage of the marine and close quarters is certain death.
Just once could you try saying something productive without all the hyperbole?
Still "blah blah aliens are op" stuff from a year ago from FW.
anyways, I feel like I'd have more of a chance against the skulks if it wasn't for my ping, my low fps, and the mouse's unresponsiveness, as everyone has already mentioned. The current lack of gameplay polish definitely favors the skulks, but I'm sure it'll improve.
It's much more responsive than NS2. So it's not fps, it's mouse-to-display latency that is the problem. Where in the chain of events is the holdup? I don't know. But the engines feel very different because of this, and it makes it hard to kill skulks.
For the love of Christ and all that is Holy, THERE IS AN ISSUE WITH HIT DETECTION ON RAPIDLY MOVING TARGETS. Skulks are impossible to hit, humans who are jumping around are impossible to hit. I have seen people byatch about both things, and the "solution" is always to nerf core movement. Just wait for the damn server-client performance to be fixed and stop suggesting stupid sheit that will make the game less fun!
Why are they ripping rines apart here? Simple leap at lvl 1..
So rines need to get either shotguns (those can still 1 hit kill on very close combat) or play as a team, 1 guy in front rest covers..
And they are just different then other normal fts, people aren't used to it so they need to learn.
Furthermore I got better resolution and a bigger screen then when I played NS1 my vision is better when I bite..
That being said, make small changes if you must but don't make skulk the most hated class in ns again for me :-(