<!--quoteo(post=1836045:date=Mar 5 2011, 05:09 AM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Mar 5 2011, 05:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1836045"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->WoL?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> that was the most natural thing ever in ns. the first thing a foreign organism would do is to limit the enemy agent's movement options.
I for one am not disputing the tactic of attacking the res node, or if a team fails to defend the last res node and finds itself too res poor to put down anymore... I am merely concerned that there is a issue with the mechanics of one team ability to take res nodes.
Marines have a far easier time of taking res nodes ( power is default on , only requires a MAC or Marine on site to place ) , whereas the DI limits the Aliens ability to take res nodes severly ( need to get the main DI to the res node , infestation costs energy which can be depleted quiet fast and is used to make drifters which are the only building tools ( except Hydras ), and of course you need a drifter to place the Harvester ) .
This limit practically forces the Alien team to play a certain way each map or be res starved early game ( DI spread to nearest node or possibly drop 2nd hive ASAP near a node... both of these limit the Aliens in structure builds and upgrades. Dont forget that while energy may be free and constantly flowing , it still takes time to accumilate and also remember Aliens require energy to build drifters which are used up once a structure is placed. The Alien comm has to balance need for the first Whip and Crag ( for upgrades ) versus the need to grab a res node quickly or be at a disadvantage in res income.
This is really only noticable on larger maps, Rockdown isnt a good test of DI and its current implementation as you dont need all that much DI to get to nodes, but on Tram ... thats a whole different story , practically the whole energy store of the Primary hive is needed to 'carpet' to the first node ( may be mistaken, havent messed about enough to be 100% sure ).
I have no issue with the other structures requiring DI to place, but the Harvester requiring a constant link to the main DI or suffer damage ( is it fair to require a Gorge to babysit a ninja Harvester ? ) throws a really big spanner into the Aliens resource game.
Some of the DI concerns hopefully will be rectified in future patching. Some nice ideas include: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=112780" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=112780</a> and <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=112800" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=112800</a>
Also, asymmetrical gameplay isn't a bad thing. Because of the distributed res and the cost to Gorge in NS1, you saw the Alien gameplay for competitive and pubs turn into secure and hold a few nodes, while the Marines tried to spread out and capture many more nodes. Aliens would fight to protect their few nodes and take the offensive and slow down Marines, while picking off their RTs, while the Marines could afford a few early losses and either tried to hold the majority of the map or do a decisive push and kill the precious few Alien RTs. It was glorious.
That being said, there are distinct and already noted balance numbers that could use tweaking. Shotguns are amazingly good at RT killing, perhaps more than they should be. DI needs tweaks. And some other stuff.
<!--quoteo(post=1835952:date=Mar 4 2011, 10:44 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Mar 4 2011, 10:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1835952"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-kills skulks instantly -renders whips useless -kills lerks almost as fast as skulks -saps fade adren, keeps fade burning for another 10 secs after youve already left the room -no cooldown -functions like a sword
yep, ft sucks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> - Takes (minimum) 0 seconds to kill a skulk with a shotgun, 0.5 seconds with the rifle, and 1.5 seconds with the flamethrower. Hint: 0 and 0.5 are less than 1.5. - Whips disregarded because I clearly stated 'vs players'. - Bad lerks? Maintain range and harass. - I agree that this is a bizarre function, and would love to see it go. I also agree that the burning needs to be fixed (so that it is a fixed duration). However, these are relatively minor problems and should hardly contribute to this mistaken notion that the flamethrower is OP. The adren-cripple function was added to counteract the damage reduction, and give the flamethrower support use. I personally don't see this as necessary. Much of the outcry that led to this change, is due to the skill-less ease of use of the flamethrower (due to its current implentation). - Cooldown? What? Spells? Fireball spell? I think you have the wrong setting. - It most certainly does not function like a sword. It functions like some kind of death ray beam. Straight ahead, dealing damage, no 'lag'. No doubt this will be addressed. The real issue is that it takes no skill to wield - it does area damage, and the area is very, very large. It wouldn't make sense to not do area damage, but the implementation is sloppy and the cone of fire needs reduction regardless.
I used to think that the Flamethrower was Over-Powered but the more that I played as/against a flamethrower the more I realised that it is not actually that Over-Powered.
In my opinion; I think that the shotgun is Over-Powered as the shotgun is the thing that actually kills the fades not the Flamethrower.
Before you complain about the weapons why don't you play NS2 and get the experience of playing it.
It's a perfectly valid tactic to take out as many of the opposition' resource towers as possible. The thing is that there are no sense of teamwork and cohesion between players that, for most of the time, run aimlessly around the map and only REACT instead of ACT. This is more so true for Aliens team because they tend to 'alienate' themselves more and go rambo, not listening to alien commander comments and run hopelessly into enemy fire, because Marines originally had a commander and used to listen to him due to incentives (medpaks, ammo).
<!--quoteo(post=1836309:date=Mar 7 2011, 11:59 AM:name=Acolyte)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Acolyte @ Mar 7 2011, 11:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1836309"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's a perfectly valid tactic to take out as many of the opposition' resource towers as possible. The thing is that there are no sense of teamwork and cohesion between players that, for most of the time, run aimlessly around the map and only REACT instead of ACT. This is more so true for Aliens team because they tend to 'alienate' themselves more and go rambo, not listening to alien commander comments and run hopelessly into enemy fire, because Marines originally had a commander and used to listen to him due to incentives (medpaks, ammo).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the fact that the Aliens go Rambo on the Marines.
The only problem I have is the lack of communication between the Marine commander and his Marines. The Marine commander needs to have a choice about what marine gets what gun.
Why not go back to the old ways of NS1 and let guns spawn in Mid-air. Simple and effective.
Please, please, please UWE, introduce a way to allow the Marine commander to choose which marine gets what weapon.
Comments
that was the most natural thing ever in ns. the first thing a foreign organism would do is to limit the enemy agent's movement options.
ofc this is wrong, but thats the system we are living at :(
Marines have a far easier time of taking res nodes ( power is default on , only requires a MAC or Marine on site to place ) , whereas the DI limits the Aliens ability to take res nodes severly ( need to get the main DI to the res node , infestation costs energy which can be depleted quiet fast and is used to make drifters which are the only building tools ( except Hydras ), and of course you need a drifter to place the Harvester ) .
This limit practically forces the Alien team to play a certain way each map or be res starved early game ( DI spread to nearest node or possibly drop 2nd hive ASAP near a node... both of these limit the Aliens in structure builds and upgrades.
Dont forget that while energy may be free and constantly flowing , it still takes time to accumilate and also remember Aliens require energy to build drifters which are used up once a structure is placed.
The Alien comm has to balance need for the first Whip and Crag ( for upgrades ) versus the need to grab a res node quickly or be at a disadvantage in res income.
This is really only noticable on larger maps, Rockdown isnt a good test of DI and its current implementation as you dont need all that much DI to get to nodes, but on Tram ... thats a whole different story , practically the whole energy store of the Primary hive is needed to 'carpet' to the first node ( may be mistaken, havent messed about enough to be 100% sure ).
I have no issue with the other structures requiring DI to place, but the Harvester requiring a constant link to the main DI or suffer damage ( is it fair to require a Gorge to babysit a ninja Harvester ? ) throws a really big spanner into the Aliens resource game.
Some of the DI concerns hopefully will be rectified in future patching. Some nice ideas include:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=112780" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=112780</a>
and
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=112800" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=112800</a>
Also, asymmetrical gameplay isn't a bad thing. Because of the distributed res and the cost to Gorge in NS1, you saw the Alien gameplay for competitive and pubs turn into secure and hold a few nodes, while the Marines tried to spread out and capture many more nodes. Aliens would fight to protect their few nodes and take the offensive and slow down Marines, while picking off their RTs, while the Marines could afford a few early losses and either tried to hold the majority of the map or do a decisive push and kill the precious few Alien RTs. It was glorious.
That being said, there are distinct and already noted balance numbers that could use tweaking. Shotguns are amazingly good at RT killing, perhaps more than they should be. DI needs tweaks. And some other stuff.
So, relax.
-renders whips useless
-kills lerks almost as fast as skulks
-saps fade adren, keeps fade burning for another 10 secs after youve already left the room
-no cooldown
-functions like a sword
yep, ft sucks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Takes (minimum) 0 seconds to kill a skulk with a shotgun, 0.5 seconds with the rifle, and 1.5 seconds with the flamethrower. Hint: 0 and 0.5 are less than 1.5.
- Whips disregarded because I clearly stated 'vs players'.
- Bad lerks? Maintain range and harass.
- I agree that this is a bizarre function, and would love to see it go. I also agree that the burning needs to be fixed (so that it is a fixed duration). However, these are relatively minor problems and should hardly contribute to this mistaken notion that the flamethrower is OP. The adren-cripple function was added to counteract the damage reduction, and give the flamethrower support use. I personally don't see this as necessary. Much of the outcry that led to this change, is due to the skill-less ease of use of the flamethrower (due to its current implentation).
- Cooldown? What? Spells? Fireball spell? I think you have the wrong setting.
- It most certainly does not function like a sword. It functions like some kind of death ray beam. Straight ahead, dealing damage, no 'lag'. No doubt this will be addressed. The real issue is that it takes no skill to wield - it does area damage, and the area is very, very large. It wouldn't make sense to not do area damage, but the implementation is sloppy and the cone of fire needs reduction regardless.
I used to think that the Flamethrower was Over-Powered but the more that I played as/against a flamethrower the more I realised that it is not actually that Over-Powered.
In my opinion; I think that the shotgun is Over-Powered as the shotgun is the thing that actually kills the fades not the Flamethrower.
Before you complain about the weapons why don't you play NS2 and get the experience of playing it.
I like the fact that the Aliens go Rambo on the Marines.
The only problem I have is the lack of communication between the Marine commander and his Marines. The Marine commander needs to have a choice about what marine gets what gun.
Why not go back to the old ways of NS1 and let guns spawn in Mid-air. Simple and effective.
Please, please, please UWE, introduce a way to allow the Marine commander to choose which marine gets what weapon.