Computer buying thread #3257
A_Boojum_Snark
Join Date: 2003-09-07 Member: 20628Members
Join Date: 2003-09-07 Member: 20628Members
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">want some more eyes to look at this.</div>So it's finally time for me to get something that can run new games (Portal 2 being the tipping point for me), and while I think I know my stuff, it's been years since I've really paid attention to hardware and I've tried to catch up on everything over the past month. So I thought I'd come to you knowledgeable folks to see if I'd overlooked some compatibility aspect or committed some foolish faux-pas.
Here's what I'm looking to get: <a href="http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=23129808" target="_blank">http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWi...Number=23129808</a>
I've never been really interested in overclocking, so I wanted to save a few bucks with the i5-2400 instead of the 2500K, and I've read it's stock cooler is more than sufficient for such.
Don't really want to spend more than $200 on the GPU, so the 460 seemed to fit the bill, and from what I've read handles everything fine. The 500 series Ti cards are cheaper, but it seems most of their specs are lower, unless I'm missing something else about that series and Ti isn't just a low-end version of cards.
Here's what I'm looking to get: <a href="http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=23129808" target="_blank">http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWi...Number=23129808</a>
I've never been really interested in overclocking, so I wanted to save a few bucks with the i5-2400 instead of the 2500K, and I've read it's stock cooler is more than sufficient for such.
Don't really want to spend more than $200 on the GPU, so the 460 seemed to fit the bill, and from what I've read handles everything fine. The 500 series Ti cards are cheaper, but it seems most of their specs are lower, unless I'm missing something else about that series and Ti isn't just a low-end version of cards.
Comments
Otherwise everything else looks decent assuming you're not building for overclocking / upgrades in a year.
Also, you're right. The 560Ti is their budget card of the 500 series. However, it does get to take advantage of their improvements for the next generation of cards, which means more bang per power consumption.
I recommend perusing these links for help as well:
<a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-31.html" target="_blank">http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-31.html</a>
<a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-gaming-cpu-core-i3-2100-recommended-processor,2895.html" target="_blank">http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-g...essor,2895.html</a>
<a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/theme-build-your-own,156.html" target="_blank">http://www.tomshardware.com/theme-build-your-own,156.html</a>
Don't go with a stock CPU cooler though.
Unless you're overclocking.
But yeah, non-stock coolers typically are more hassle for a few degree drop and especially Intel stock coolers are ALWAYS more powerful than you need. Heck, I've overclocked a couple extra hundred MHz on Intel stocks before. I would just never pump up the voltages.
I really hated my old computer before I switched the stock fan (a stock 3,6ghz p4) because of the immense noise it made when revving up. So if not for OC, you might want to consider it just to keep noise levels down.
I really hated my old computer before I switched the stock fan (a stock 3,6ghz p4) because of the immense noise it made when revving up. So if not for OC, you might want to consider it just to keep noise levels down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
daaaaaaaaang.
Also, I will note that newer stocks are pretty quiet, but yes Svenpa is right you can get quieter if you want on a non-stock.
I take it you mean it's more than I need for gaming with the rest of the stuff I have? I felt I wanted to dump a little more into the CPU because I do deal in some more CPU-heavy things outside gaming. Notably compiling Source engine maps and the occasional video editing.
I was a bit dismayed that the cost hadn't fallen for Intel's lineup as much as I figured it would by now, though that isn't helped by the fact Sandy Bridge has just launched, but I have liked what I've read about it. Or am I being foolish?
Though in particular the <a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sandy-bridge-efficienct-32-nm,2831.html" target="_blank">power consumption</a> is appealing to me.
As for the cooler, if it isn't sufficient it is simple enough to buy one at a later point. Nothing lost there since I'm stuck with "buying" the stock cooler anyway. I have a feeling anything will be quieter than the god-awful fans in the system I currently have that decide to make ugly noises for a week every couple months. They're also much smaller than the current-gen standard seems to be, which I assume means louder from more RPM.
Overall, thanks for the replies. My last system purchase was way back for HL2... I'm awfully hesitant about this stuff so anything helps.
The other models are not really overclockable, since everything with this new generation comes down to the multi(muulti is locked for non K), and not to bclk (~fsb)
The i5 2500k goes easily to 4-4,5ghz even with stock coolers
If you dont plan to overclock take a normal version with a cheaper H67 motherboard. ( H67 can also utilize the internal gpu of the cpu, as a fallback if your gfx card dies e.g.)
But since the OC potentials are so great, i dont recomment taking a non K version.
To sum it up:
K version needs P67 => enthusiast
non K needs H67 => office
If you really need so much power, is another question... BUT,
The Problem is, investing money into an AMD system(CPU+MB) isnt really wise atm - the next generation cpu("bulldozer") is comming out soon, and requires a new socket AM3+ - so you would have to wait a little bit, buy a board (which will come quite some time earlier than the cpus) build in a current generation one - and if bulldozer comes out with a reasonable price/power ratio - you could sell and replace it.
Boards are already listed at some pages <a href="http://www.gigabyte.com/products/list.aspx?s=42&jid=10&p=2&v=26" target="_blank">http://www.gigabyte.com/products/list.aspx...mp;p=2&v=26</a> - but i dont know when they ll be available in stores...
If raw power of bulldozer gets comparable or even higher than the Intel sandy bridge ones, you wont get out cheaper.
If you dont care of having a state of the art cpu or the option to upgrade to a newer generation without replacing the motherboard too, i reccomend you buying a current generation AMD cpu (x4 or x6) and put the saved money into a better gpu -because in the end GPU > CPU for gaming. (most of the time)
PS: since everything now goes via multi @ intel*, you can take the cheapest brand 1333mhz ddr3 ram you can find - high timings or clock doesnt give anything mentionalbe for the higher cost. (you cant feel any difference only mesaure it with benchmarks - and even then, as i said nothing to mention)
*OC via bclk (or fsb in the older days) required higher ram clocks - multi doesnt care, and is so easy to overclock - a monkey could do it.
That said, I can't speak highly enough for the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Plus. It's on the large side, yes... but match it with a pair of anti-noise 120mm fans, then set them to run at minimum speed by default. Took a CPU (AMD AthII x4) suffering at 60-70C idle temps under full throttle on the stock cooler to 23C idle... never going over 35C with every core running independently at 100% utilization. And cranking up from 800rpm to the 'stock' speed of 2000rpm brought that down to 27C.
Grabbed a second for my Core i7 workstation right afterward, and saw similar results, and made the loudest part the hard drives.
--Scythe--
<a href="http://lifehacker.com/#!5440376/best-time-to-buythe-best-times-to-buy-anything-all-year-round" target="_blank">http://lifehacker.com/#!5440376/best-t...-all-year-round</a>
<img src="http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/17/2010/01/final.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I think you can go with a way lower spec PSU, 650W is not needed.
I don't know the exact maximum power use of that setup but it isn't going to be around 500-600W.
Well, unless you're going to overclock.
CPU: <a href="http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=52209" target="_blank">Max TDP 95 W</a>
GFX: <a href="http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-geforce-gtx-460-us.html" target="_blank">Maximum Graphics Card Power (W) 160 W</a>
Now sure how much to add for the rest? hdd, ssd, optical drive, fans, say 100W total?
So you're around 400W
This is just an estimate, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I also concur about the stock CPU cooler, all I read is that they do their job poorly and wear out quickly, start making noise.
The H67 motherboards that have the other stuff I want (esata and 6GB sata in particular) aren't all that much cheaper than the P67 ones, and they're mostly micro boards. The full size ones are even closer in price.
I'm not interested in overclocking or the integrated graphics, but Intel went with the stupid move of putting the better graphics core (12 units instead of 6) on the K processors. So if you want to overclock OR use the graphics, you'll want the top chip to get the most out of it either way. But then each requires a unique chipset, or while you are forced to buy the best of both or the worse of both, you can only ever use one or none.
Don't go with a stock CPU cooler though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, how dare you use something the engineers at Intel build specifically for that piece of hardware.
>.>
Yorkfield still kicks some mighty butt though! (no so much in terms of upgradability though :P)
Eh, $2+/GB, I'd wait for prices to get closer to $1/GB but maybe I am just cheap.
>.><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's stupidly loud and places the fan on the top which makes airflow awful.
I like as dust free a case as possible, as quiet a computer as possible, as long a life out of a chip as possible.
Oh and I never buy Intel, I go for hotter AMD chips =D
On SSDs, as someone who has one, I have a few thoughts.
1) Damn I boot fast!!!
2) It took an entire afternoon to make sure I configured everything properly so that ProgramData and Users weren't on the C: drive anymore so they wouldn't get filled up and screw with the SSD drive. Granted, this might not apply to you since I have only 40GB and thus was a touch paranoid.
So, they are awesome, but be warned you probably will have to do some finagling during your OS install. And Windows is a little touchy about you moving those folders. Still, with the help of Google, I've survived and haven't had a problem yet.
In terms of power, 650W _might_ suffice. What's actually more important is how many amps you can get on a dedicated 12V rail for you graphics card. I believe the 400 series can 2 12V rails, same as the 500 series. So, add up the amps available on two rails and see if you're over what your card wants with a safety margin. Or you can go with a single rail PSU instead if you're worried about slight deviations between the two 12V rails. However, a good 650W PSU should do just fine with your build.
You should also check what combo deals you can snag on Newegg. Often times there's good case+psu deals.
<!--quoteo(post=1839857:date=Apr 4 2011, 07:51 PM:name=A_Boojum_Snark)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (A_Boojum_Snark @ Apr 4 2011, 07:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839857"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I take it you mean it's more than I need for gaming with the rest of the stuff I have? I felt I wanted to dump a little more into the CPU because I do deal in some more CPU-heavy things outside gaming. Notably compiling Source engine maps and the occasional video editing.
I was a bit dismayed that the cost hadn't fallen for Intel's lineup as much as I figured it would by now, though that isn't helped by the fact Sandy Bridge has just launched, but I have liked what I've read about it. Or am I being foolish?
Though in particular the <a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sandy-bridge-efficienct-32-nm,2831.html" target="_blank">power consumption</a> is appealing to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah. Getting a SnadyBridge seemed like a bit overkill for a generic build, but if you're doing some CPU heavy stuff it's a good buy. And from what you've mentioned, it should be worth it.
As already mentioned, if you want overclocking, invest in a K version. Otherwise, a standard non-K version will suffice imo. I personally avoid overclocking to ensure everything lasts 4+ years, but they've made it pretty darn easy these days to squeeze out more computational power these days.