<!--quoteo(post=1843523:date=May 1 2011, 01:31 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ May 1 2011, 01:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843523"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why do you need welders?
If you need the marines to be able to do something like welding, add it to their E key.
Why do I need to take up a weapon slot with it, and why do I need to buy the weapon?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me personally? I'd like it to be a bit limited who got to use it if marines were given the abilities beyond hold E to build something.. and that wouldn't do it for me.
And honestly the adding it to E thing as well would just come off as lazier to me than the hold E to build without so much as a tool.. or any animation thing already is..
Maybe we can do something more precise and constructive... <ul><li>for E-based welding: +always available->promotes teamwork -increased durability of marines requires rebalance of entire alien team</li><li>for attachment/weapon replacement: +make marines weigh options; increasing teammate durability vs more firepower -need a new model</li></ul>
I forget, was E-welding supposed to harm infestation or not?
1. only adv armory should restore armor, the basic armory will always restore health 2. medpacks should not restore armor only health, this is an overpowering currently, one marine can solo dozen of aliens 3. weldering should not be a passive ability, commander much do some research to gain welders
now for the welders themselves
-it should be something can be gotten from the armory which should replace the pistol or axe - welders can be bought from the armory or dropped by the commander - not all marines by default should be allowed to weld, the marine himself has to make that choice if he wants play different role within his team (class roles)
welders should not harm infestation, power nodes themselves can do that. infestation inside a room with an active power node will slowly recede, not quickly but slowly. Aliens must focus on killing power nodes to keep the infestation.
I'd still say replacing the axe or pistol really doesn't matter that much. Even those that value either can get along without it far too well for it to actually be an option weighing thing since both at least feel pretty unnecessary as of right now, (I do hope they change up how weapon damage to structures is handled; especially that nasty shotgun situation right now) since blasting a building or an alien with anything else is pretty much favorable to them.
Pretty much early T1 is the only time they hold real value beyond the novel and the overly ammo conscious and I would hope this takes a bit of research.
A welder pops out and animates when you hold E on a ghost building to build it, or hold E on a power node to repair it. Marines cannot repair anything else (other structures, or other marines). There will be a quick 'drawing the welder' animation (following the quick 'holstering the weapon' animation), and a quick 'holstering the welder' animation, to add a greater delay and vulnerability to the marine, so that he cannot fire his weapon immediately.
<!--quoteo(post=1843597:date=May 2 2011, 04:35 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ May 2 2011, 04:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843597"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A welder pops out and animates when you hold E on a ghost building to build it, or hold E on a power node to repair it. Marines cannot repair anything else (other structures, or other marines). There will be a quick 'drawing the welder' animation (following the quick 'holstering the weapon' animation), and a quick 'holstering the welder' animation, to add a greater delay and vulnerability to the marine, so that he cannot fire his weapon immediately.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sounds like the best solution I've heard all year. <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->+1<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1844744:date=May 7 2011, 09:26 PM:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN @ May 7 2011, 09:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844744"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Implement and Lock this thread!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're not the boss of us :P
<!--quoteo(post=1844746:date=May 7 2011, 05:38 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ May 7 2011, 05:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844746"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're not the boss of us :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Am too!
A welder pops out and animates when you hold E on a ghost building to build it, or hold E on a power node to repair it. Marines cannot repair anything else (other structures, or other marines). There will be a quick 'drawing the welder' animation (following the quick 'holstering the weapon' animation), and a quick 'holstering the welder' animation, to add a greater delay and vulnerability to the marine, so that he cannot fire his weapon immediately.
<!--quoteo(post=1844784:date=May 7 2011, 11:22 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ May 7 2011, 11:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844784"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So more or less exactly as it currently works?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> But with a "realistic justification" (new and improved aesthetics) and fan service!
A welder pops out and animates when you hold E on a ghost building to build it, or hold E on a power node to repair it. Marines cannot repair anything else (other structures, or other marines). There will be a quick 'drawing the welder' animation (following the quick 'holstering the weapon' animation), and a quick 'holstering the welder' animation, to add a greater delay and vulnerability to the marine, so that he cannot fire his weapon immediately.
Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is how i would like it as well. Where the welder is not actually something purchased at the armory, not even a selectable "weapon" that can be whipped out by pressing a hotkey, but rather just polish to make holding the E-key more interesting when you are holding it while staring at something which needs welding.
<!--quoteo(post=1844793:date=May 8 2011, 01:01 AM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ May 8 2011, 01:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844793"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is how i would like it as well. Where the welder is not actually something purchased at the armory, not even a selectable "weapon" that can be whipped out by pressing a hotkey, but rather just polish to make holding the E-key more interesting when you are holding it while staring at something which needs welding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hell, if it worked this way, and considering that Exoskeleton-weapons will run on an "overheating" mechanic, I think I might be alright with the notion of giving (late game!) Exoskeleton 'welders' the ability to repair, but on a sufficient cooldown timer that prohibits Invincible Weld-trains.
<!--quoteo(post=1844790:date=May 8 2011, 05:44 AM:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN @ May 8 2011, 05:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844790"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But with a "realistic justification" (new and improved aesthetics) and fan service!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Meh if you like.
Personally I have no issue with the presumed welder being invisible when building, I don't see my hands come out and pick stuff up in games that let you do that, I don't see the marine reach out and press the door buttons to open them, I assume it's just 'you know what's happening, so we didn't put a graphic in'.
I still think my idea of having the pistol's alt-fire act as a welder is the best.
It'd only be a very minor modelling/animation deal. Press mouse2 and the pistol "transforms" (underside-of-muzzle drops and out comes the "welder muzzle" or something similarly minor), then press mouse1 to weld. And back again. So mouse2 acts as a toggle. Also the transformation, although minor, still takes it's time so you still get the feeling of "oh hell I'm welding I hope a skulk isn't nearby to munch on my butt".
Dammit, the more I think of it the more I can't figure out why this idea always gets shot down as if speaking heresy! It's a practical solution and best of all it's interactive, therefore, funner! And I daresay waaay more useful than the unnecessary "more accurate pistol fire mode"...
@wulf That's a bit off-topic.. but mines would be nice I guess, but dear god no, this isn't NS1 on a child of the quake engine anymore, lets move on from that silly Bhopping nonsense.
<!--quoteo(post=1844856:date=May 8 2011, 10:34 AM:name=CaCa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CaCa @ May 8 2011, 10:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844856"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still think my idea of having the pistol's alt-fire act as a welder is the best.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was just reflecting on the battery powered impact wrench of bad company, and the wrench of Warhawk, and it occurred to me that the idea of a welder is to "serious"/<i>realistic</i> for the roll of a tool that magically repairs stuff.
How about instead that the marine can beat things with his folding axe to repair them!! It would make the axe that much more justified as a replacement for the knife. Its magical nanite-secreting edge that heals marine stuff and hurts alien stuff!!1
The advantage is no new fancy model is required and we can use the same chopping animation/effects we already have.
No... your only problem with my suggestion is that it is a "waste of a model and an animation" which is completely subjective. From the same point of view, detailed skins, or models, or detailed animations, or map props, or map textures are also "a waste".
My point was more that there are only like 2 people that are wholly onboard with any one idea rather than "this would be okay but I'd prefer something else".
welders indeed must be returned, standing there pushing E is so laughable, just goes to show you how much thought went into this gimmick.
if they want every marine to have welders by default (passive ability) at least make it so the command must upgrade something to get this perk.
although i'm not a big fan of every marine having this weapon, it should be something marines themselves should choice to buy from the armory, which should only be sold after the commander upgraded the armory to sell them. To further promote class roles, buying a welder would replace your pistol, this would mean not all marines would buy welders - marines can choice themselves type of role they want to play.
<!--quoteo(post=1846306:date=May 14 2011, 04:20 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 14 2011, 04:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1846306"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->welders indeed must be returned, standing there pushing E is so laughable, just goes to show you how much thought went into this gimmick.
if they want every marine to have welders by default (passive ability) at least make it so the command must upgrade something to get this perk.
although i'm not a big fan of every marine having this weapon, it should be something marines themselves should choice to buy from the armory, which should only be sold after the commander upgraded the armory to sell them. To further promote class roles, buying a welder would replace your pistol, this would mean not all marines would buy welders - marines can choice themselves type of role they want to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This makes me wonder how Marines can help build if they can't get an Armory up and running without Welders (assuming it replaces E build function). MACs are out of the question due to Robotics Factory requiring Armory as well...
It isn't going to help if it's a upgrade, every game would demand its research to get anything done.
Comments
If you need the marines to be able to do something like welding, add it to their E key.
Why do I need to take up a weapon slot with it, and why do I need to buy the weapon?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me personally? I'd like it to be a bit limited who got to use it if marines were given the abilities beyond hold E to build something.. and that wouldn't do it for me.
And honestly the adding it to E thing as well would just come off as lazier to me than the hold E to build without so much as a tool.. or any animation thing already is..
<ul><li>for E-based welding:
+always available->promotes teamwork
-increased durability of marines requires rebalance of entire alien team</li><li>for attachment/weapon replacement:
+make marines weigh options; increasing teammate durability vs more firepower
-need a new model</li></ul>
I forget, was E-welding supposed to harm infestation or not?
1. only adv armory should restore armor, the basic armory will always restore health
2. medpacks should not restore armor only health, this is an overpowering currently, one marine can solo dozen of aliens
3. weldering should not be a passive ability, commander much do some research to gain welders
now for the welders themselves
-it should be something can be gotten from the armory which should replace the pistol or axe
- welders can be bought from the armory or dropped by the commander - not all marines by default should be allowed to weld, the marine himself has to make that choice if he wants play different role within his team (class roles)
welders should not harm infestation, power nodes themselves can do that. infestation inside a room with an active power node will slowly recede, not quickly but slowly. Aliens must focus on killing power nodes to keep the infestation.
Pretty much early T1 is the only time they hold real value beyond the novel and the overly ammo conscious and I would hope this takes a bit of research.
A welder pops out and animates when you hold E on a ghost building to build it, or hold E on a power node to repair it. Marines cannot repair anything else (other structures, or other marines). There will be a quick 'drawing the welder' animation (following the quick 'holstering the weapon' animation), and a quick 'holstering the welder' animation, to add a greater delay and vulnerability to the marine, so that he cannot fire his weapon immediately.
Thoughts?
I think I stated well how I'd want it, but in the event I cant have it like that that's a nice simpler alternative really.
So... +1 in that case
Sounds like the best solution I've heard all year. <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->+1<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Implement and Lock this thread!
You're not the boss of us :P
Am too!
A welder pops out and animates when you hold E on a ghost building to build it, or hold E on a power node to repair it. Marines cannot repair anything else (other structures, or other marines). There will be a quick 'drawing the welder' animation (following the quick 'holstering the weapon' animation), and a quick 'holstering the welder' animation, to add a greater delay and vulnerability to the marine, so that he cannot fire his weapon immediately.
Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So more or less exactly as it currently works?
But with a "realistic justification" (new and improved aesthetics) and fan service!
A welder pops out and animates when you hold E on a ghost building to build it, or hold E on a power node to repair it. Marines cannot repair anything else (other structures, or other marines). There will be a quick 'drawing the welder' animation (following the quick 'holstering the weapon' animation), and a quick 'holstering the welder' animation, to add a greater delay and vulnerability to the marine, so that he cannot fire his weapon immediately.
Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is how i would like it as well. Where the welder is not actually something purchased at the armory, not even a selectable "weapon" that can be whipped out by pressing a hotkey, but rather just polish to make holding the E-key more interesting when you are holding it while staring at something which needs welding.
Hell, if it worked this way, and considering that Exoskeleton-weapons will run on an "overheating" mechanic, I think I might be alright with the notion of giving (late game!) Exoskeleton 'welders' the ability to repair, but on a sufficient cooldown timer that prohibits Invincible Weld-trains.
Meh if you like.
Personally I have no issue with the presumed welder being invisible when building, I don't see my hands come out and pick stuff up in games that let you do that, I don't see the marine reach out and press the door buttons to open them, I assume it's just 'you know what's happening, so we didn't put a graphic in'.
It'd only be a very minor modelling/animation deal. Press mouse2 and the pistol "transforms" (underside-of-muzzle drops and out comes the "welder muzzle" or something similarly minor), then press mouse1 to weld. And back again. So mouse2 acts as a toggle.
Also the transformation, although minor, still takes it's time so you still get the feeling of "oh hell I'm welding I hope a skulk isn't nearby to munch on my butt".
Dammit, the more I think of it the more I can't figure out why this idea always gets shot down as if speaking heresy! It's a practical solution and best of all it's interactive, therefore, funner! And I daresay waaay more useful than the unnecessary "more accurate pistol fire mode"...
That's a bit off-topic.. but mines would be nice I guess, but dear god no, this isn't NS1 on a child of the quake engine anymore, lets move on from that silly Bhopping nonsense.
PLEASE keep the bhopping discussion to the appropriate thread (hell, someone even necro'd it, so it shouldn't be hard to find).
I was just reflecting on the battery powered impact wrench of bad company, and the wrench of Warhawk, and it occurred to me that the idea of a welder is to "serious"/<i>realistic</i> for the roll of a tool that magically repairs stuff.
How about instead that the marine can beat things with his folding axe to repair them!! It would make the axe that much more justified as a replacement for the knife. Its magical nanite-secreting edge that heals marine stuff and hurts alien stuff!!1
The advantage is no new fancy model is required and we can use the same chopping animation/effects we already have.
if they want every marine to have welders by default (passive ability) at least make it so the command must upgrade something to get this perk.
although i'm not a big fan of every marine having this weapon, it should be something marines themselves should choice to buy from the armory, which should only be sold after the commander upgraded the armory to sell them. To further promote class roles, buying a welder would replace your pistol, this would mean not all marines would buy welders - marines can choice themselves type of role they want to play.
if they want every marine to have welders by default (passive ability) at least make it so the command must upgrade something to get this perk.
although i'm not a big fan of every marine having this weapon, it should be something marines themselves should choice to buy from the armory, which should only be sold after the commander upgraded the armory to sell them. To further promote class roles, buying a welder would replace your pistol, this would mean not all marines would buy welders - marines can choice themselves type of role they want to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This makes me wonder how Marines can help build if they can't get an Armory up and running without Welders (assuming it replaces E build function). MACs are out of the question due to Robotics Factory requiring Armory as well...
It isn't going to help if it's a upgrade, every game would demand its research to get anything done.