<!--quoteo(post=1852732:date=Jun 14 2011, 11:01 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jun 14 2011, 11:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852732"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if you can't understand my posts I suggest you brush up your reading comprehension.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If your writing is so clear and pristine, explain your problem with my original post.
You asked:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if you don't know when DI is honestly going to reach any sort of full scale implementation, I'd rather just see a community discussion around it. Any ideas, anyone?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I posted my idea of what the 1.0 implementation would be, which is obviously a direct response to your question, but you said "that's not what I asked." So if you didn't ask what you asked, why are you insisting that your writing is perfectly clear? How are you interpreting the question in your imagination which is different than what you actually wrote? How is that difference not evidence that you need to either clarify or stop complaining about people misinterpreting your amazingly broadly phrased question which you insist is prohibitively narrow?
<!--quoteo(post=1852735:date=Jun 14 2011, 11:05 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jun 14 2011, 11:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852735"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If your writing is so clear and pristine, explain your problem with my original post.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You answered with how you think the current DI will be at version 1.0, keeping it texture based.
I asked about the fully fledged originally proposed mesh/model system. So it's not just a texture, it's a mesh, an actual environment which is wholesome in comparison to level architecture and not flat like a decal or texture.
I don't think I can make this response any clearer, so please, accept it and move on.
<!--quoteo(post=1852743:date=Jun 14 2011, 11:14 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jun 14 2011, 11:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You answered with how you think the current DI will be at version 1.0, keeping it texture based. I asked about the fully fledged originally proposed mesh/model system.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You asked about "<b>any sort</b> of full scale implementation," not limited to your own imaginary definition of what "full scale implementation" means.
Furthermore, you said "<b> if you don't know</b> when DI is honestly going to reach any sort of full scale implementation, I'd <b>rather just see a community discussion </b>around it," in other words specifically asking "the community" to <b>speculate </b>about future implementation.
You are pretty insistent that you asked something different than what you wrote. Are you trolling or just stubborn?
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1852748:date=Jun 14 2011, 11:19 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jun 14 2011, 11:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852748"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are pretty insistent that you asked something different than what you wrote. Are you trolling or just stubborn?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1852683:date=Jun 14 2011, 09:50 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jun 14 2011, 09:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->DI was the flagship advertisement campaign for NS2, as were dynamic environments which are less than promising; just cutting off the power in one room from a power node. It would be nice to have an honest reply, if you don't know when DI is honestly going to reach any sort of full scale implementation, I'd rather just see a community discussion around it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <i>He's asking about the dynamic environments that were promised initially and a reply from UWE.
"full scale implementation" - Obviously relates to:
"DI was the flagship advertisement campaign for NS2, as were dynamic environments which are less than promising"
"I'd rather just see a community discussion around it." - a discussion about the original DI with UWE (which is part of the community)</i>
I'd assume they are waiting on, frankly, more important things. Personally, DI is about the least of my concerns. I can't wait for a complete, lag-free (both CPU and networking) version of NS2, not to mention balance and bugs. I'll deal with ugly infestation until the bitter end if it means I get a more fun version of NS2 faster.
<!--quoteo(post=1852755:date=Jun 14 2011, 11:26 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jun 14 2011, 11:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852755"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He's asking about the dynamic environments that were promised initially and a reply from UWE.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I gave him a reply about one dynamic environment feature (croach). By the way, the original croach video wasn't a "promise," and it wasn't "the original DI," it was a proof-of-concept. One of many possible implementations. The end result almost never looks 100% identical to a proof-of-concept.
<!--quoteo(post=1852756:date=Jun 14 2011, 11:27 PM:name=twincannon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twincannon @ Jun 14 2011, 11:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852756"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd assume they are waiting on, frankly, more important things. Personally, DI is about the least of my concerns. I can't wait for a complete, lag-free (both CPU and networking) version of NS2, not to mention balance and bugs. I'll deal with ugly infestation until the bitter end if it means I get a more fun version of NS2 faster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd almost agree with you there. Although I thought now was about time to ask, considering lesser important gameplay features are being worked upon and being added at the moment, after seeing roughly 8ish months of no activity on that front, it seems like a strange splurge to be suddenly adding smaller features like this. I'd have expected the large gap from "big feature", first rough-testable release, to the recently added features appearing much grander and important by scale.
I sort of ask myself, what did someone actually work on in this period, because the recent additions of bloom, the smaller arc stuff etc. It can't have taken that long a time scale to add for a game development team aiming to release by the end of this year, can it? Who knows, maybe DI will be out within a month and it'll look pretty much like what I hope for, maybe the game will actually be released this year in an acceptable state, again who knows. I certainly don't and have no in cling what so ever, except I'm getting more and more dis-satisfied with lack of progress over time passed.
Oh and Zex, go read every dev blog & additional content since 2006. It's as far as it goes back. I have, it'll be a great educational experience for you and might teach you a bit of background knowledge. If you haven't played NS1 yet, do so. I haven't the strength nor time to explain everything every step of the way, have fun chatting to yourself about trivial information which should be self-explanatory.
<!--quoteo(post=1852761:date=Jun 14 2011, 11:31 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jun 14 2011, 11:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852761"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh and Zex, go read every dev blog & additional content since 2006. It's as far as it goes back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Go read an English dictionary and the Queen's Handbook to Basic Courtesy and Etiquette /Passive Agressive Trollery
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1852760:date=Jun 14 2011, 11:30 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jun 14 2011, 11:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852760"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And I gave him a reply about one dynamic environment feature (croach). By the way, the original croach video wasn't a "promise," and it wasn't "the original DI," it was a proof-of-concept. One of many possible implementations. The end result almost never looks 100% identical to a proof-of-concept.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you seriously tripping over the word "promise" I used... Of course it is a proof-of-concept, but it is entirely different from the current implementation. Procedural generated (the "promise") vs each spawnpoint of DI manually placed.
It would be nice to hear from UWE where the current prototype implementation is taking us, will each and every DI spawnpoint be manually placed or will it procedurally generate from, well probably from Pustules and the Gorge spray could perhaps be used to accelerate the growth-rate. Not to mention, will it cover everything in a room, not just the floor. It would just be nice to get some info on this rather BIG NS2 selling point :)
<!--quoteo(post=1852766:date=Jun 14 2011, 11:44 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jun 14 2011, 11:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852766"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would be nice to hear from UWE where the current prototype implementation is taking us, will each and every DI spawnpoint be manually placed or will it procedurally generate from, well probably from Pustules and the Gorge spray could perhaps be used to accelerate the growth-rate. Not to mention, will it cover everything in a room, not just the floor. It would just be nice to get some info on this rather BIG NS2 selling point :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would love to see the original DI concept come into use but the current infestation is a good placeholder for that technology. The mechanics of how it works strategically is pretty much as expected and works very well in game - barring a bug that makes you unable to place infestation... anyway, not I too would like to know that status of the 'real' DI.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited June 2011
There are a number of problems or enhancements needed with the current prototype:
1) Postules (sp) should be created when placing new infestation as comm. There should also be an area effect circle to indicate where it will overlap with the main patch (an outline should be around all the infestation connected to a hive. Postules will eliminate marine's difficulty in killing DI efficiently, and make it so the alien comm doesn't waste res guessing if a patch connects or not.
2) It's hard to intuitively determine where you're allowed to place infestation. It makes sense in areas where power nodes are destroyed, but the same logic doesn't apply to areas of a map that don't have a power node, yet are lighted like they have a power node. Are these areas where the marines have a power grid automatically?
There should be a visual way to determine where the marines power grid is, and hence, where you cannot currently spread infestation until it is taken out. I've always been confused by the neutral areas of maps, maybe the entire map needs to be able to be dynamically altered by either the powergrid or infestation instead of always having lit areas somewhere on the map.
I've always envisioned that the entire map's lighting scheme can be altered dynamically based on the current status of the infestation or power grid, instead of limited to certain rooms. This includes secondary areas like hallways or connecting areas.
Current DI implementation doesn't bother me really, I see plenty of texture stretching doing level design so it doesn't take me out of the game any more than the boatloads of other obvious imperfections do.
Get the decals to spread up the walls for gameplay purposes and I couldn't really care less about the looks.
<!--quoteo(post=1852780:date=Jun 15 2011, 01:08 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Jun 15 2011, 01:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852780"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are a number of problems or enhancements needed with the current prototype:
1) Postules (sp) should be created when placing new infestation as comm. There should also be an area effect circle to indicate where it will overlap with the main patch (an outline should be around all the infestation connected to a hive. Postules will eliminate marine's difficulty in killing DI efficiently, and make it so the alien comm doesn't waste res guessing if a patch connects or not.
2) It's hard to intuitively determine where you're allowed to place infestation. It makes sense in areas where power nodes are destroyed, but the same logic doesn't apply to areas of a map that don't have a power node, yet are lighted like they have a power node. Are these areas where the marines have a power grid automatically?
There should be a visual way to determine where the marines power grid is, and hence, where you cannot currently spread infestation until it is taken out. I've always been confused by the neutral areas of maps, maybe the entire map needs to be able to be dynamically altered by either the powergrid or infestation instead of always having lit areas somewhere on the map.
I've always envisioned that the entire map's lighting scheme can be altered dynamically based on the current status of the infestation or power grid, instead of limited to certain rooms. This includes secondary areas like hallways or connecting areas.
Anyways, I'm sure it'll all get sorted in time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know you can place infestation anywhere right? It just dies if it isn't connected to a hive.
<!--quoteo(post=1852755:date=Jun 14 2011, 07:26 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jun 14 2011, 07:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852755"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><i>He's asking about the dynamic environments that were promised initially and a reply from UWE.
"full scale implementation" - Obviously relates to:
"DI was the flagship advertisement campaign for NS2, as were dynamic environments which are less than promising"
"I'd rather just see a community discussion around it." - a discussion about the original DI with UWE (which is part of the community)</i>
There you go dex...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why say community when you really mean the Devs? They're a subset of the community so it isn't technically incorrect, but why be deliberately ambiguous and risk confusing people when you could just be concise and just call out UWE?
If he's only willing to entertain a discussion about the originally conceived DI (no speculation), and we already know all that there is to know about the originally conceived DI, what more could anyone that isn't a Dev possibly have to say other than, "Yeah, it sucks that it isn't out yet! We demand to know what's going on!"
Which sounds more like a call to arms than an invitation for discussion...
ChopsUW Technical Artist (and Store Guy)Join Date: 2009-08-06Member: 68373Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1852766:date=Jun 14 2011, 04:44 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jun 14 2011, 04:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852766"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->will it procedurally generate from, well probably from Pustules and the Gorge spray could perhaps be used to accelerate the growth-rate. Not to mention, will it cover everything in a room, not just the floor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the current idea. The pustules and vines connecting them would be the source of Croach growth which will procedurally generate geometry, textures, and effects to cover the ground, walls, and eventually the ceiling of the surrounding area. The '06 concept was using Source and is not compatible with the Spark engine. But the '11 version should be much cooler :)
As for the timeline.... not in the immediate future is the best answer I have. Focus is on performance and other bug squashing at the moment.
I'm not too sure about pustules honestly, without seeing it in-game, and playing with it - its hard to give any opinions on it.
I've always thought of infestation as a living part of the aliens that is being generated by the hives, and grows on its own. Allowing the commander to spread it sounds fine, and even the gorge but the feeling was infestation was alive, and it would spread itself onto each room. While power nodes would control the spread of it.
the video posted here is a very old video, and far better looking infestation than the current one we see now. But it was tested on source engine, and it was tested in a single room. how would that infestation scale on the whole map, with players and during combat? I'm just wondering what this will do to the performance since the current performance is pretty poor at best.
i'm guessing they will be adding the better looking infestation as the last thing since much of the game is still constantly changing.
I expect the full dynamic infestation for release, but until then I am fine with it staying 2d, especially if it becomes a more defined mechanic with the postules soon.
I don't like the "croach" name for it though. It sounds like a blatant "lets call it creep but change a few letters" approach. "Infestation" is great, as it is a description first and a name second. Also "DI" is very easy to use (though the "dynamic" isnt a part of the name)
UWE takes pride in their work, that much is obvious; they created an engine from scratch (no easy task) that delivers beautiful environments. The current prototype infestation stands out like a sore thumb in comparison to the otherwise stunning visuals. Therefore it wouldn't make sense for them to not enhance the visuals of infestation; which, given the time, will happen. But all of you holding this in comparison to enhancing gameplay features seem to be misunderstanding what the difference between the current implementation and the proof of concept, is: it's purely visual. Whilst improving visuals is nice for improving the feel of the game, it's completely irrelevant to the playability.
In conclusion, with patience UWE will improve the visuals of infestation to proof of concept quality or better, but there are more important issues ay hand. If you have doubts, consider the impact on the quality of the final product if they didn't change the visuals, its not good: that's why I'm confident it will be included - in due time!
urinalcakeCan't work a sound cardUnited StatesJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7799Members
Threads like these do nothing but discourage developers from doing what you originally want, giving a good honest reply. When others step in and attempt to be armchair quarterbacks for game developers, it's not only frustrating, it's demeaning.
I know, that being a community member or even an avid fan of NS1 or NS2, we've all white-knighted to UWE's cause at one point or another.. but it's really best to just put forward the idea that we don't know all of their plans and can only make observations. UWE has thus far shown us that they are hitting every possible avenue of addition and maturity for NS2; whether it be optimizations, gameplay changes, audio changes, shader/particle/misc. graphical changes, they're attempting to do it all -- because as soon as one falls behind, the community will give the developers a strong blowback, and that's just not fair.
Before we even get on the topic of DI/Croach, (whatever you call it, it's semantics and getting in an argument only proves you're trying to win a side argument in hopes it aids your current argument) wouldn't it be better to optimize the game as a whole before putting in something that could potentially rip every little bit of it from us? Be thankful that things like animation graph implementation or minor optimizations show up at ALL. Getting this game to a state where something like DI could be implemented is a long, arduous process, especially with the lack of additional engine programming help.
When I asked Max how hard he thought it would be to get DI looking like that in the current version of Spark, he replied that it was definintly not the hardest task he still had ahead of him.
Just because it's not released doesn't mean it isn't becoming mature in the pipeline - like the Onos.
Not relevant to OP, but for those anxiously awaiting 3D DI, remember that in the current Beta, the more important thing than staring at the gorgeous 3D DI eye candy is testing the 2D DI to within an inch of its life. That way when 3D DI replaces it, the DI mechanic will be very close to being complete from a gameplay perspective.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
that thread is not worth the paper its written on... ah wait, there is no paper
Seriously, what is the point of this thread? We see tons of improvements in every patch, the game gets massively better with every patch and we have a working croach implementation, at least in the sense that it works with the game mechanics and lets us test the game. The shiny croach can come later, it really doesn't matter at this point and would probably just be a performance problem because of some currently unoptimized parts of the engine (that as we can all see with every patch are beeing worked on).
So you seriously started a thread because your pet feature wasn't yet implemented in the way it will be at release day? A feature that really just improves the visual aspects and not the gameplay? At least you have no other problems...
I think this thread has a valid reason for being here, and generally is just asking a question most of us are already thinking.
While I don't know how close to completion the Infestation is, I do feel as though they've snuck the actual 3D mesh in there somewhere. For example, Atmospheric lighting, and the Onos are somewhat there. You can enable the atmospheric flag, and when ingame in your map, type in r_atmospherics (cheats 1), and you'll get the stuff, albeit a bit laggy, but still present. You could also spawn an onos with the "give onos" command, now while it IS invisible, they still have the onos' pain sounds in. If you ever get the chance, I highly suggest you spawn the onos in a big room containing a reverb entity and set him on fire. The roar sounds incredible.
There is a model with the infestation texture in the editor that you can use, but I am doubtful that this is the actual infestation mesh itself.
And personally, I don't like "Croach" as a replacement for Infestation, either. Croach sounds like something you would get after stepping on a large bug. Honstly, I would find "stuff" as a better replacement than Croach. Examples being "ew gross. the stuff is on the ceiling" "that stuff is in the way" "kill the stuff before it breaks that welded door".
Charlie's NS2 Design blog does have mention of the Infestation as I have no doubt you're already aware of, as well as a processing prototype. While it isn't in the game yet, the prototype is still a meaty development into the actual component of the game, which I find completely fine.
Hey guys! I can't wait to place some crotch all over the map! Crotch for all! The ladies just dig my big hydra that grows from my crotch. Apparently Marines slow down when walking on my crotch now.
"Crotch" is about as stupid as having an alien commander. Nothing surprises me anymore.
Comments
If your writing is so clear and pristine, explain your problem with my original post.
You asked:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if you don't know when DI is honestly going to reach any sort of full scale implementation, I'd rather just see a community discussion around it.
Any ideas, anyone?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I posted my idea of what the 1.0 implementation would be, which is obviously a direct response to your question, but you said "that's not what I asked."
So if you didn't ask what you asked, why are you insisting that your writing is perfectly clear? How are you interpreting the question in your imagination which is different than what you actually wrote? How is that difference not evidence that you need to either clarify or stop complaining about people misinterpreting your amazingly broadly phrased question which you insist is prohibitively narrow?
You answered with how you think the current DI will be at version 1.0, keeping it texture based.
I asked about the fully fledged originally proposed mesh/model system. So it's not just a texture, it's a mesh, an actual environment which is wholesome in comparison to level architecture and not flat like a decal or texture.
I don't think I can make this response any clearer, so please, accept it and move on.
You asked about "<b>any sort</b> of full scale implementation," not limited to your own imaginary definition of what "full scale implementation" means.
Furthermore, you said "<b> if you don't know</b> when DI is honestly going to reach any sort of full scale implementation, I'd <b>rather just see a community discussion </b>around it," in other words specifically asking "the community" to <b>speculate </b>about future implementation.
You are pretty insistent that you asked something different than what you wrote. Are you trolling or just stubborn?
<!--quoteo(post=1852683:date=Jun 14 2011, 09:50 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jun 14 2011, 09:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->DI was the flagship advertisement campaign for NS2, as were dynamic environments which are less than promising; just cutting off the power in one room from a power node. It would be nice to have an honest reply, if you don't know when DI is honestly going to reach any sort of full scale implementation, I'd rather just see a community discussion around it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>He's asking about the dynamic environments that were promised initially and a reply from UWE.
"full scale implementation" - Obviously relates to:
"DI was the flagship advertisement campaign for NS2, as were dynamic environments which are less than promising"
"I'd rather just see a community discussion around it." - a discussion about the original DI with UWE (which is part of the community)</i>
There you go dex...
And I gave him a reply about one dynamic environment feature (croach). By the way, the original croach video wasn't a "promise," and it wasn't "the original DI," it was a proof-of-concept. One of many possible implementations. The end result almost never looks 100% identical to a proof-of-concept.
I'd almost agree with you there. Although I thought now was about time to ask, considering lesser important gameplay features are being worked upon and being added at the moment, after seeing roughly 8ish months of no activity on that front, it seems like a strange splurge to be suddenly adding smaller features like this. I'd have expected the large gap from "big feature", first rough-testable release, to the recently added features appearing much grander and important by scale.
I sort of ask myself, what did someone actually work on in this period, because the recent additions of bloom, the smaller arc stuff etc. It can't have taken that long a time scale to add for a game development team aiming to release by the end of this year, can it? Who knows, maybe DI will be out within a month and it'll look pretty much like what I hope for, maybe the game will actually be released this year in an acceptable state, again who knows. I certainly don't and have no in cling what so ever, except I'm getting more and more dis-satisfied with lack of progress over time passed.
Oh and Zex, go read every dev blog & additional content since 2006. It's as far as it goes back. I have, it'll be a great educational experience for you and might teach you a bit of background knowledge. If you haven't played NS1 yet, do so. I haven't the strength nor time to explain everything every step of the way, have fun chatting to yourself about trivial information which should be self-explanatory.
Go read an English dictionary and the Queen's Handbook to Basic Courtesy and Etiquette /Passive Agressive Trollery
Are you seriously tripping over the word "promise" I used... Of course it is a proof-of-concept, but it is entirely different from the current implementation. Procedural generated (the "promise") vs each spawnpoint of DI manually placed.
It would be nice to hear from UWE where the current prototype implementation is taking us, will each and every DI spawnpoint be manually placed or will it procedurally generate from, well probably from Pustules and the Gorge spray could perhaps be used to accelerate the growth-rate. Not to mention, will it cover everything in a room, not just the floor. It would just be nice to get some info on this rather BIG NS2 selling point :)
100% agree
1) Postules (sp) should be created when placing new infestation as comm. There should also be an area effect circle to indicate where it will overlap with the main patch (an outline should be around all the infestation connected to a hive. Postules will eliminate marine's difficulty in killing DI efficiently, and make it so the alien comm doesn't waste res guessing if a patch connects or not.
2) It's hard to intuitively determine where you're allowed to place infestation. It makes sense in areas where power nodes are destroyed, but the same logic doesn't apply to areas of a map that don't have a power node, yet are lighted like they have a power node. Are these areas where the marines have a power grid automatically?
There should be a visual way to determine where the marines power grid is, and hence, where you cannot currently spread infestation until it is taken out. I've always been confused by the neutral areas of maps, maybe the entire map needs to be able to be dynamically altered by either the powergrid or infestation instead of always having lit areas somewhere on the map.
I've always envisioned that the entire map's lighting scheme can be altered dynamically based on the current status of the infestation or power grid, instead of limited to certain rooms. This includes secondary areas like hallways or connecting areas.
Anyways, I'm sure it'll all get sorted in time.
Get the decals to spread up the walls for gameplay purposes and I couldn't really care less about the looks.
<!--quoteo(post=1852780:date=Jun 15 2011, 01:08 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Jun 15 2011, 01:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1852780"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are a number of problems or enhancements needed with the current prototype:
1) Postules (sp) should be created when placing new infestation as comm. There should also be an area effect circle to indicate where it will overlap with the main patch (an outline should be around all the infestation connected to a hive. Postules will eliminate marine's difficulty in killing DI efficiently, and make it so the alien comm doesn't waste res guessing if a patch connects or not.
2) It's hard to intuitively determine where you're allowed to place infestation. It makes sense in areas where power nodes are destroyed, but the same logic doesn't apply to areas of a map that don't have a power node, yet are lighted like they have a power node. Are these areas where the marines have a power grid automatically?
There should be a visual way to determine where the marines power grid is, and hence, where you cannot currently spread infestation until it is taken out. I've always been confused by the neutral areas of maps, maybe the entire map needs to be able to be dynamically altered by either the powergrid or infestation instead of always having lit areas somewhere on the map.
I've always envisioned that the entire map's lighting scheme can be altered dynamically based on the current status of the infestation or power grid, instead of limited to certain rooms. This includes secondary areas like hallways or connecting areas.
Anyways, I'm sure it'll all get sorted in time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know you can place infestation anywhere right? It just dies if it isn't connected to a hive.
"full scale implementation" - Obviously relates to:
"DI was the flagship advertisement campaign for NS2, as were dynamic environments which are less than promising"
"I'd rather just see a community discussion around it." - a discussion about the original DI with UWE (which is part of the community)</i>
There you go dex...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why say community when you really mean the Devs? They're a subset of the community so it isn't technically incorrect, but why be deliberately ambiguous and risk confusing people when you could just be concise and just call out UWE?
If he's only willing to entertain a discussion about the originally conceived DI (no speculation), and we already know all that there is to know about the originally conceived DI, what more could anyone that isn't a Dev possibly have to say other than, "Yeah, it sucks that it isn't out yet! We demand to know what's going on!"
Which sounds more like a call to arms than an invitation for discussion...
That's the current idea. The pustules and vines connecting them would be the source of Croach growth which will procedurally generate geometry, textures, and effects to cover the ground, walls, and eventually the ceiling of the surrounding area. The '06 concept was using Source and is not compatible with the Spark engine. But the '11 version should be much cooler :)
As for the timeline.... not in the immediate future is the best answer I have. Focus is on performance and other bug squashing at the moment.
I've always thought of infestation as a living part of the aliens that is being generated by the hives, and grows on its own. Allowing the commander to spread it sounds fine, and even the gorge but the feeling was infestation was alive, and it would spread itself onto each room. While power nodes would control the spread of it.
the video posted here is a very old video, and far better looking infestation than the current one we see now. But it was tested on source engine, and it was tested in a single room. how would that infestation scale on the whole map, with players and during combat? I'm just wondering what this will do to the performance since the current performance is pretty poor at best.
i'm guessing they will be adding the better looking infestation as the last thing since much of the game is still constantly changing.
I don't like the "croach" name for it though. It sounds like a blatant "lets call it creep but change a few letters" approach. "Infestation" is great, as it is a description first and a name second. Also "DI" is very easy to use (though the "dynamic" isnt a part of the name)
In conclusion, with patience UWE will improve the visuals of infestation to proof of concept quality or better, but there are more important issues ay hand. If you have doubts, consider the impact on the quality of the final product if they didn't change the visuals, its not good: that's why I'm confident it will be included - in due time!
I know, that being a community member or even an avid fan of NS1 or NS2, we've all white-knighted to UWE's cause at one point or another.. but it's really best to just put forward the idea that we don't know all of their plans and can only make observations. UWE has thus far shown us that they are hitting every possible avenue of addition and maturity for NS2; whether it be optimizations, gameplay changes, audio changes, shader/particle/misc. graphical changes, they're attempting to do it all -- because as soon as one falls behind, the community will give the developers a strong blowback, and that's just not fair.
Before we even get on the topic of DI/Croach, (whatever you call it, it's semantics and getting in an argument only proves you're trying to win a side argument in hopes it aids your current argument) wouldn't it be better to optimize the game as a whole before putting in something that could potentially rip every little bit of it from us? Be thankful that things like animation graph implementation or minor optimizations show up at ALL. Getting this game to a state where something like DI could be implemented is a long, arduous process, especially with the lack of additional engine programming help.
ROFL.
Just because it's not released doesn't mean it isn't becoming mature in the pipeline - like the Onos.
Not relevant to OP, but for those anxiously awaiting 3D DI, remember that in the current Beta, the more important thing than staring at the gorgeous 3D DI eye candy is testing the 2D DI to within an inch of its life. That way when 3D DI replaces it, the DI mechanic will be very close to being complete from a gameplay perspective.
Seriously, what is the point of this thread? We see tons of improvements in every patch, the game gets massively better with every patch and we have a working croach implementation, at least in the sense that it works with the game mechanics and lets us test the game.
The shiny croach can come later, it really doesn't matter at this point and would probably just be a performance problem because of some currently unoptimized parts of the engine (that as we can all see with every patch are beeing worked on).
So you seriously started a thread because your pet feature wasn't yet implemented in the way it will be at release day? A feature that really just improves the visual aspects and not the gameplay? At least you have no other problems...
While I don't know how close to completion the Infestation is, I do feel as though they've snuck the actual 3D mesh in there somewhere. For example, Atmospheric lighting, and the Onos are somewhat there. You can enable the atmospheric flag, and when ingame in your map, type in r_atmospherics (cheats 1), and you'll get the stuff, albeit a bit laggy, but still present. You could also spawn an onos with the "give onos" command, now while it IS invisible, they still have the onos' pain sounds in. If you ever get the chance, I highly suggest you spawn the onos in a big room containing a reverb entity and set him on fire. The roar sounds incredible.
There is a model with the infestation texture in the editor that you can use, but I am doubtful that this is the actual infestation mesh itself.
And personally, I don't like "Croach" as a replacement for Infestation, either. Croach sounds like something you would get after stepping on a large bug. Honstly, I would find "stuff" as a better replacement than Croach. Examples being "ew gross. the stuff is on the ceiling" "that stuff is in the way" "kill the stuff before it breaks that welded door".
Charlie's NS2 Design blog does have mention of the Infestation as I have no doubt you're already aware of, as well as a processing prototype. While it isn't in the game yet, the prototype is still a meaty development into the actual component of the game, which I find completely fine.
"Crotch" is about as stupid as having an alien commander. Nothing surprises me anymore.